Building a Shower Floor From Scratch - Part 1 of 2 - With Shower Pan Membrane 

Thanks, R and I appreciate you watching.

You make a good point, Chas! I learned this method over 40 years ago and it is still as useful today as it ever was. There are certainly more options these days for shower floors, but this is a tried and true method. Good luck, RU-vid son! Get to work! 🙂

I'm so relieved I've found this channel! Your so correct, Neonmax.

Thanks for your comment and for watching, Annie! Before forming that opinion, you may want to talk with my kids! They have had to listen to me all day, lots of days!

Thanks so much for your kind comments, Gibby! I have to say that you obviously have some great basic skills yourself because building your own shower floor is not a simple project! I generally tell people that their second shower floor will definitely be better than their first! Glad it worked out well for you. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to share with me your experiences!

Good luck with your shower, David! Yes, much of doing constructions projects well is doing what makes sense. Adding a layer sloping to the drain for the pan to rest on makes sense. Thanks for watching and for you comments!

Thanks for watching, Josh! As a finish carpenter, you have all the basic skills necessary to pick up tile work as well. You just need a question or two answered along the way. Glad the video helped point you in the right direction!

Thanks for watching and for the comment, Franklin.

I wouldn't have any objection to it, Aapl, but it's one of those things that may be overkill from my perspective so I wouldn't bother. My view is that once everything is in place in a shower remodel, including the outside bathroom floor tile, nothing is going anywhere, as in curb, layers of drypack, etc. Your idea wouldn't hurt anything, but probably wouldn't make any difference either. Thanks for watching and for your comments!

Hi Stella. I cut and bend the mesh so that it kind of grips the step when I slip it in place. I like for the mesh on the inside of the step to be buried slightly in the final dry pack and for the shower floor tile to be set right up against the mesh. On the outside, I push pieces of tile against the mesh and coat the whole step with a layer of thinset. On the outside, the thinset will stick to the brick and secure the mesh to the step when it is dry. I then cut pieces of 1/2” Hardiebacker to wrap my step with and use thinset to secure it to the step and boxes and/or pieces of tile to hold the Hardiebacker in place until it dries. Thanks for watching and I hope the rest of your project goes well!

@@RustyDobbs excellent thank you. I'm noticing different types of bricks at stores. does it matter much from cement brick to red brick?

@@stellavisionmade-in-usa.9443 No, whatever size fits best for your needs should be fine.

@@RustyDobbs ok cool. thank you, i really appreciate this.. besides saving money, i find this very rewarding. When I took the tub out, i was intimated and thanks to people like you and youtube I feel less intimated. The cast iron was exploded on the inside from previous people using Liquid draino and stuff like that. I had to cut the limestone with a drill, making holes and going back and forth to get to the cast iron connections. about 3 feet of pipe I'm replacing it with pvc. what a project lol. But that really needed to be done. I'm sharing this because people have no idea how damaging using these products on an 1966 built home.. Thank you again kind soul (*L*)

I'm in total agreement with your descriptions of the stuff that was fun and the things not so much, Josh! Also, at 30, trying to do as much as you can because you enjoy learning rather than paying reminds me of someone else I know! That attitude has mostly upside and will serve you well in the years to come. Everything I know about construction has come as a result of taking the same approach you are so I encourage you to keep it up as well! Thanks so much for commenting and giving me a little perspective on what you are doing. Glad you are finding helpful information in my videos!

Hey, TJ! Thanks so much for your very kind comments! I appreciate you watching and thanks for the encouragement! It means a lot!

Thanks for watching, William! Obviously, you know other people came up with these techniques long before I came along! 🙂 Just glad I was exposed to some tradesmen many years ago who took a lot of pride in their work and were willing to pass on some of their knowledge to me!

Thanks, Vlad! Yeah, bricks work the best!

Glad it was helpful, Pat! Thanks for watching!

The tricky part comes in when trying to carry the two buckets of dry pack through doorways over carpet while trying to get to the shower without dumping one, Eric! 😬 Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching, Alfred!

I would tend to agree that there are other approaches to building shower floors with drypack and liners that will work and maybe work really well without the exact steps I used in my videos. Sounds like the second video you reference is giving a visual illustration of how drypack is actually supposed to function. The specifics of what I do have evolved for me over time with tweaks and modifications being made through the years. It works for me and probably more importantly makes good 'common' sense to me as well. Thanks for watching and for your comment!

Thanks for your question, Joseph and, yes, I have used mortar kind of like you are suggesting before the Hardiebacker days. I used to build a form on the front and back of the step with at least 1/2" distance between the form and the brick with the lath floating in between. I made sure the forms were level front and back and giving me about 1/8" slope from the front form to the back for drainage back into the shower. Then, I poured it with a little richer dry pack mix and enough water mixed in to allow it to flow down the channels front and back of the step then screeded it across the top of the forms so that once it set up, I had a level concrete step with appropriate slope. It was a little tedious and had to get creative securing the forms but I was always happy with the finished product and all I had left to do was set the tile. For that style of step, I wanted at least 1/2" concrete encasing the step, all poured at the same time. On the lath against the pan, just let common sense direct you. If it concerns you, shim or trim the lath until it looks good to you. Sounds like you are making great progress! Good luck on the rest of the process!

@@RustyDobbs thanks, I don't know how you can keep up with all the questions but I really appreciate the response. A form sounds like the answer I was looking for. And I am a festidious tinkerer so I think that might be my answer.

Sounded like you were working hard on your shower floor and would appreciate a little fuller explanation. I think you will be happy with the formed and poured shower step. Good job taking on that project, Joseph!

I've worked professionally in training and development for many years, and this rivals some of the best instructional vids I've seen, especially for the budget you invested.

Thanks Sean! I enjoy making the videos and am glad you think they are good! I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!

Hey, Sean! I regularly tell my wife that I’m a remarkable, likeable guy and she rolls her eyes! Maybe I should change that to remarkably likeable! 🙄 Thanks for your kind words! Let me know if you have questions on the process. I have talked lots of folks through building their shower floors.

Thanks, JJ! Good luck with your remodel!

Glad you found it helpful, EJ. Yeah, I use a couple of methods for building curbs depending on the situation, but both work well. Good luck!

You never know, Earl! I'm only one state over here in New Mexico. Glad the videos were helpful to you and I appreciate you watching and also your comments!

Hey, ZchryPlys, I think you know you have answered your question to me with "I mean bricks will work fine obviously". Assuming a wood curb is properly waterproofed, you don't have anything to worry about. Conversely, if water gets to wood in the curb for some reason, your curb is toast in a short time. Not so with brick which is the way I was taught 40+ years ago. You should be thinking about how you will respond to a young guy who may ask you a similar question in a few years like, "I mean Schluter or Mapei products work fine but why aren't you using all these other great new products they have these days?" It's a generational thing to a degree! 🙂

Thanks for watching, Larry, and I'm glad you find the videos helpful. Yeah, the process is not complicated if you just take it a step at a time. The thing that has the biggest learning curve is figuring out how to work with the dry pack. I tell people their best shower floor will probably be their second one! 🙄 The roofing felt would be helpful in slowing down the drying out of the dry pack while you are working it, but I get this first layer placed in about an hour for a typical shower so that's not an issue. The lath would add some additional reinforcement for the dry pack. But that first layer of dry pack is to give you grade to be able to lay the shower pan on so water that reaches it will flow to the weep holes in the drain. That layer is confined by the bottom wall plates and brick step so the lath seems redundant to me. Maybe on a wood subfloor, but I have never done it. Good luck with your first shower floor!

@@RustyDobbs Thank you for the reply. Will send you photos upon completion.

Probably so, Matt. Floors that are built like this usually come up in chunks when they are torn out. On this installation, you could not take off the tile alone without destroying the mud layer below.

Glad the videos are helpful, Melissa! Feel free to email me at rusty@dobbsworkshop.com with pictures as needed. Would be happy to give you an opinion or two on what you are working on!

Thanks for the comment, BPRescue! Sounds like we both got started working with tile in the same way, but I was probably 30 years earlier than you based on the techniques you are describing! The "old school" techniques from my time were mud and lath walls, floated with a hawk and trowel! I think the brush on waterproof membranes certainly have their place and I have used them occasionally on a case by case basis. My go to approach these days is 1/2" Hardiebacker on walls, tape and thinset seams, then brush on the membrane on the seams and corners only. I don't buy off on the full 'waterproof envelope' concept. On shower floors, maybe it's ok to coat the final dry pack like in my video with a membrane before tile but not as a replacement for the showerpan liner from my perspective.

Hey Rick! Now Brett Favre is a new one on me! But my accent is more of a 'Texas Twang' than his southern drawl! Thanks for the comment!

No, Kathy, not a published one. But it's pretty simple. A shower pan liner that is large enough to wrap up the wall about 12" after installation and a drain designed to work with the shower pan. Then it's sand and portland cement that can be both be purchased in bags from the typical home centers. I give the details on how they are mixed in the videos. I use bricks for the step and wrap it with a metal lath product that is also sold at the stores. I think the videos are pretty clear on how and when all the materials are used in the process. Hope that helps!

Sure, Theresa. I would probably consider just building a short form to the height you need and pouring a solid concrete curb and forget the brick. You can do whatever works structurally and still lets water flow to the drain.

In the RU-vid era, I tend not to knock an idea if it wouldn't do any harm and that would be my reaction to the thinset suggestion, Jeff. I would have a hard time convincing myself to do it. The preslope isn't going anywhere. I look at the floor as the most critical part of the shower and I want the drypack and grouted tile to extend under the Hardiebacker walls basically back to the studs with a positive slope back to the drain in my installations. In that case, whether the 1/2" Hardiebacker I use touches the floor or is elevated a little is not a big issue to me either way. Water flowing off the wall tile is going to hit a grouted tile floor that is going to send it to the drain. Maintaining the corner and floor caulk joints and grout joints is the maintenance that is needed thereafter. Hardiebacker is such a durable product, I don't think it would ever be a part of a problem if installed in the method we are talking about. Life is good, Jeff! Hope the same for you!

Yep, been wearing Pumas a long time, Smoov!

Love watching your videos! I’m going to be the best handyman Detroit MI, has to offer. Subscribed! 😇 3 months later.

I think that is probably a good minimum number for a shower floor build. I have used the same mix for non-shower purposes and have feathered it out to nothing to transition between different levels. I mixed it a little wetter than in the video so I could bring some moisture to the surface with the trowel and make it more like a cement finish. That example had some chipping away up to about 1/2" from the edge of the dry pack before it was solid. It was exposed mostly to foot traffic.

Yes, I use the same mix (1 part portland cement to 4 parts sand) and just add more water to get to the consistency I want to set the brick or pour into forms depending on the situation. I usually toss in another scoop of portland to richen up the mix a little when thinning the mix down.

Sorry I missed replying to your comment sooner, Prof! Two of the main materials that are needed are the shower drain and shower pan liner which are both manufactured by Oatey in this case and can be found on Amazon. Depending on where you live, home improvement centers will also have these items in stock plus the remainder of the materials and tools I used in the video. I used a couple of different sizes of flat trowels that are also easy to find in any store that carries construction materials. The sand I use is regular mortar sand or play sand and the cement I use is called Portland cement. The video is pretty self-explanatory as to what you do with these materials. When you are placing the liner in the shower floor, you can feel the hole in the shower drain and that's where you know to begin carefully cutting the hole. There are also instructions that come with the drain that shows you how to attach the drain to the liner or there are other RU-vid videos that go into more detail. The main challenge you have it seems to me is in getting rid of your tub and potentially relocating the drain in the center of the area you want to be your shower. If you have a concrete slab, this makes that process a little more challenging so you may want to bring in a plumber to do that prep work for you. Anyway, that's a rough overview for you and I hope it's helpful.

When you think about it, Laura, the first layer of dry pack is just filler material to support the shower pan that ties into the shower drain. If done correctly, no water should ever get through the main shower pan liner to the first layer of dry pack or wood framing around the shower. If water does get through the liner, you would want to know about! Hope that makes sense! Thanks for watching and for your question!

Thanks, William! It's a three day process for me. First layer on day one. Membrane and second layer on day two. Then tile on day three. Actually, then grout the floor on day four. You can finish out the shower walls after that. It's an extended process, but I've found you get the best results long term from building the shower this way. Good luck on your project!

Thanks for watching and for your comment! Good luck to you and your son on his shower remodel. Yeah, this process for building a shower floor is really pretty straightforward and reliable. Trying to take shortcuts on it is not a very good idea!

Hey, Kyle! Yeah, I typically see all comments regardless of when a video was uploaded. On your preslope question, all it is really doing is providing a base for the shower pan to sit on. It’s the volume of material that is providing the support which is never going anywhere once the rest of the shower floor is in place. So, the fact that the drypack feathers to nothing and cracks because it is thin is not an issue. My preslope in this video cracked around the drain too when it dried. Good luck with your house build! You are doing a lot to secure your financial future by building your home and learning all you can about the process and trades along the way. Well done, Kyle! I’m always happy to give you a perspective if you run into other questions along the way while finishing your place.

@RustyDobbs wow what a polite and prompt response! Thank you for that info that helps alot and I'll be looking forward to all of your upcoming videos!

Thanks, Matthew! I’m always happy to pass on information I have picked up from others over the years. You are following what is happening with both dry packs and are probably even overthinking it a bit. The first layer is tapered just to get some slope for the liner to rest on to direct any water to the weep holes in the drain as needed. The top layer that the tile is set on is tapered for obvious reasons. You can think of the two layers as running parallel to each other in the end, but there’s no intention or specific purpose for that. Ideally you want to have about 1 1/2 to 2” minimum thickness on the top layer all the way from the walls to the drain across the whole floor to set your tile on. Hope that helps!

Hello Alex. Many years ago, the idea of using just one layer of mud on the shower floor was the way it was done, but this pre-slope methodology has become more well-known in recent years, particularly through RU-vid. So in answer to your question, it can be done that way. I personally like the idea of the two layers because I think it helps clear water from the shower floor better due to the slope that moves the water to the weep holes on the shower drain more effectively than a flat bottom to the shower.

you prolly dont care at all but does any of you know a tool to get back into an instagram account? I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any help you can offer me.

@Justice Adriel Instablaster =)

@Benton Hugo Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

@Benton Hugo It worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thanks so much you saved my account !

@Justice Adriel you are welcome :)

It does work, Ormond, to place the shower pan directly on the concrete floor. The reason some of us float a pre-slope dry pack to place the shower pan on is to make it easier for water that makes its way to the shower pan over time to find its way to the weep holes and into the drain easier. With the shower pan placed on the concrete, obviously some water will collect because the slab is flat. Whether that becomes a problem over the years, I’m not really sure. I am confident it would take a number of years, maybe decades to create a problem. It is possible that the floor could be more prone to mold issues showing up because of the increased moisture in the dry pack that will never dry out, but again I don’t really have any experience with that happening. Good question!

@@RustyDobbs I really appreciate your help. Im glad I kept watching your videos last night. You answered all my questions to why. Now I know what to do. Thanks

Yeah, ReCycle, I know what you mean but it's pretty hard to beat a tried and true method. The thing I like about the drypack is that you can cut and shape the floor so precisely if the mud is not too wet which makes it easy to set tile on it then. Pouring concrete for me would be a bigger challenge to keep 'wavey' spots from happening. I have resisted for a long time, but am going to be trying one of the Hydro Ban shower systems on my next project because it makes sense for this job. Curious to see how I feel about it after! Thanks for the comment!

That’s a new idea for me, Mac, that I have never thought of or had suggested. Not sure I will ever have the occasion to explore that, but it may have some merit. Check out your subfloor a little further. They built a little differently back then. I’m finishing a shower right now in a home that’s about 50 years old with a subfloor made of tongue and groove 2 x 6 pine. Incredibly well built so I had no concerns about it handling the weight of the shower floor.

All I can say are RLee is that there are lots of ways that people have gone about building shower floors over the years. The method I’m using here I learned about 40+ years ago and it has a history a lot longer than that.

These days, Michael, I tend to put Hardibacker across the entire bathroom floor over a wood subfloor before building the shower. I have a recent video that is basically an update to this video called, "Building a Corner Shower Floor From Scratch", that you may find helpful. It is installed over a wood subfloor. Thanks for watching!

I know, iDeAs! What was I thinking??? I have worn a lot of Pumas over the years! One of these days I'm afraid they're going to stop selling them to me because I've exceeded the age limit on wearing the cool Pumas! I guess at that time I'll have to go back to the old white canvas Converse high top tennis shoes! Thanks for watching! I appreciate it!

Good luck, John! I'm always glad to hear from people like you who are taking on a challenge like this. You will learn alot and gain some valuable skills that you will never forget. I do always forewarn people that their second shower will be better than their first! That's just the nature of learning to work with dry pack! It makes more sense the more you do it. Think of the 1:4 ratio of portland to sand. I typically start with 2 -50 pound bags of portland and 7 or 8 - 50 pound bags of sand for a typical shower floor like the one in the video. After you mix and place your preslope layer, you will have a better idea of how much more material you may need, if any, to finish out your final layer.

@@RustyDobbs thank you sir about to go to lowes got a Lotta work to do

Not necessarily, Tony. This is one of the very 'old school' methods of building a shower floor that has stood the test of time. I learned to do this about 40 years ago and have tweaked it to my own uses over time. There are many other options for building shower floors that are used here in the States and are probably similar or the same to what you use in the UK. I recently did a large shower remodel where I used a foamboard shower base that was about 120 cm x 150 cm with a lateral drain in an upstairs master bathroom and I was concerned about the weight of a cement type shower floor, so I used this new method. I did a video on it a few months back and the shower turned out well. It was a new experience for me using this new shower base. The downside to it was that it cost about seven times more than building the cement type of floor as in the video. But it was quite a bit less physical work. All things considered, I still prefer the old methods because I trust them and have had good results over time.

I always assume that the flange of the shower floor drain will roughly be flush with the subfloor or concrete slab, Devin. I use the height of the bottom plate of the wall framing (1 1/2”) for the top of the first layer of dry pack and taper it down to the top of the flange, so it is very thin at that point. The shower pan goes on that. The finished layer of dry pack is generally between 1 1/2” and 2” thick and that is consistent across the floor to the drain. I never go less than 1 1/2” in thickness on that final dry pack. Hope that helps!

Thanks for watching, Shawn! By the way, you know you going a ways back in history with your reference to the "Duke boys"! I suspect I do sound a bit like the narrator!

There are some premixed bags that I have seen in stock at Lowes, Mike, but have never try them so I can’t really give an opinion on them. I have actually always just preferred to mix my own.

Thanks, HK! I have another video called “Moldy shower like this? Tear out and replace” that goes into a little more of the demolition of another shower. Every situation is different so a variety of things made need to be addressed depending on the issues you run into when doing a remodel. Anyway, hope the other video helps address some your questions.

Ideally as close to flush as possible with the floor, David. But because of the way this type of shower floor is built, if it is a little higher, it’s not going to matter in the final installation. The two layers of dry pack with the liner in between makes the flange elevation a minor part of the overall installation in the end.

Yes and yes, Ahsun. Good questions! If I had some masonry cement available, I would throw a cup of it in the mix but it's not a big deal. But add more water to the mix for the bricks. Mix it about a thick milkshake consistency and then make like a bricklayer. Let it dry until the next day before proceeding. Good luck!

Thanks!

Independence can go too far.

Just bought my first house . Paid cash . Fu%k a bank . Can’t wait to remodel!!

Yes, Shazil, you can actually use any products designed for wet areas and there are lots of them these days. I just happen to like 1/2" Hardiebacker for my walls. Hope your project turns out well!

Not really, Robert. The only thing you want to be aware of is that you are loading the floor joists in the area of the shower with a lot of weight that would not have been there if let's say you had a fiberglass shower base there before. Just need to make sure that the joist structure can handle that added weight. I have another video called "Building a Corner Shower Floor From Scratch" that is on a wood subfloor that you may want to check out.

Sure, you could do that if you wanted to. That first layer of dry pack is really there to help with creating a drainage incline and support for your shower pan. If the shower pan is installed properly on top of that, you should be good to go and the first layer of dry pack is pretty much irrevalent after that. Good luck with your project!

@@RustyDobbs Thanks!

Great, Jeff, and thanks for telling me about your experience! You probably have already done the second dry pack and I’m sure you got a little bit better feel for working with it on your second mix. You’re well on your way, I can tell, just based on the questions that you’re asking. Working with dry pack is one of those things that you get better at the more you do it. Your results will also be more satisfactory to you the faster you get at working the floor into place and getting to your finished troweling before the material starts to dry out. My rule of thumb is that I like my dry pack just wet enough to set up the Portland cement. I think I said in the video that if you pick up a handful of the dry pack and squeeze it and see water, that’s too wet. That doesn’t mean that it won’t work just fine because it will still set up. It just means that is going to be more of a hassle to work with particularly when you are trying to cut it and shape the floor. It will be a little sticky on your trowels and sticks. So, in a perfect world your dry pack is mixed just perfectly and you get each layer in place in about an hour start to finish after mixing your dry pack on an average sized shower. When you mix it a little too wet, you’ll know it particularly in your case with your first experience of thinking you mixed it a little too dry. But as long as you have enough water in the mixture to cause the Portland cement to set up, your floor will do what it’s intended to do. Hope that explanation helps a little bit, but my guess is you already have a pretty good idea of what I’m explaining.

Thanks for your reply Rusty. You are correct. Second dry pack went perfectly. Backer board is up, taped, and red guarded. Application of wall tile in progress . Very exciting to see it coming together. Thanks again, Jeff.

I tend to agree with you, Chris. For people who have good skills with working with hand tools in a variety of trades, a project like this not that challenging if you know the steps. Thanks for watching!

Good questions, Christian! There is no doubt that dry pack less than 3/4” thick will be prone to crack. To me, that is no issue at the drain flange where the shower pan is going to cover it and tie into the drain. It’s mass will still be there under the shower pan supporting the pan material whether it’s cracked or not. Conversely, the finish layer of dry pack that tile is set on is always going to be around 2” thick minimum at the drain in my installations. That seems to be a good structural thickness for me. I have no issue with putting the lathe down on a wood subfloor under the first layer of dry pack but have never done it. Once the installation is complete, where is the shower floor going? That sort of falls in the same category for me of coating the wood subfloor with a waterproof membrane under the shower floor. For some reason that sort of makes sense. In reality, the shower pan, if installed properly, should never allow any water to get to the wood subfloor. So, I have also never put a coat of waterproof membrane on the subfloor either. Hope that helps! Thanks for watching!

@@RustyDobbs Thank you for your response. Those were my exact thoughts. My pre-slope is 1-1/4" at the perimeter, down to about 1/2" at the flange, and my top layer of dry pack is going to add an additional 1-1/2" at the perimeter, which translates to roughly 2" at the drain (2-3/4" at the perimeter, overall, down to 2"+ at the drain).

I always try to set the flange part of the drain as close to the level of the concrete slab or wood subfloor as I can, Idaho, but it does not have to be extremely precise. The threaded part of the drain assembly can then be adjusted to whatever height works best. I typically have the top of the drain between 2 to 3 inches from the flange/shower pan depending on other factors like the overall size of the shower.

@@RustyDobbs My base is a 1942 (strong) wood floor. How should I treat the wood?

@@idahocharley When you think about the installation and the role the shower pan plays in the whole assembly, if it is done right, the wood floor should never get wet. I understand your question though and I generally add a coat of waterproof membrane to the wood floor area under the shower just in case. I don't know that it serves any useful purpose, but it just seems like it should be there!

Yes, Jim. It sounds like you have it figured out. I like to get the flange down to where it is resting close or on the original slab. If you can chip out the slab around the drain pipe a little without damaging it to get the flange closer to the slab, I will do that sometimes. If not, do as you are thinking and install your first dry pack under the pan starting at the flange and float it out the the wall with about a 1/4" per foot rise. Then you are on your way! Good luck. Let me know if you have other questions!

Thanks Randy, I'm just about ready for my first layer of dry pack. Have you ever used the bagged pre mix or recommend the Portland Cement and Base Sand 4:1 you mix yourself as explained in your video. I was a bit confused at the store with the different "Type" ratings. Could you confirm if it's Quikrete Portland Cement Type 10 ? and is there a certain type of sand or Quikrete Base sand?. I was at Lowes and could not find the sand and was told to just use a the premix stuff. Thx

Hey Jim. No, I've never used the premixed stuff for a shower floor. I buy my cement and sand from Lowes as well. I checked a bag I still have and it says type I/II. It is also Quikrete Portland. The sand I use is also Quikrete brand and says it is a base sand for pavers. Personally, I would be fine with their stock portland cement they have on the pallets.The only pre-bagged sand I have purchased that I didn't care for was a little more coarse than I was used to. It still worked fine but I prefer a consistently fine sand. If it has larger pieces in it, those will tend to pop out as you are finish troweling the surface. Still not an issue, just more of a pain to work with. Don't hesitate to make a small form from 2x4's with a bottom on it, mix a small batch of mud to the proportions and pack it in really tight into the form to get a feel of what you are working with. Try screeding it and finish troweling it. Pull the form off the next day and check it out.

Yep, there are lots of ways to take on shower floors these days with the newer products. Sounds like you are a Redgard believer!

@@RustyDobbs Yeah we did the sheet rock challenge. It held up with zero leaks.

Yes you can, Husker. The process is the same for a wood subfloor or concrete. The only thing you need to be aware of for a wood subfloor is that you are point loading the area of the shower floor with quite a bit of weight. I always like to check the floor joist situation of the area underneath the shower just to make sure I don’t need to beef up the structural integrity of that area a little bit.

Hey, Craig. Yes, check this one out at about the 4 minute mark. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sGBhxDatqTg.html I'm not going into detail in the video, but I am showing the process of building the step. Just like setting brick. You can use the same mix for the dry pack floor, just mix it thinner to a typical brick mortar consistency.

Hey Matt! Let me share some things that will make more sense now that you have mixed and placed your first batch of dry pack. My initial reaction is that you probably did fine. Dry pack is not going to end up like concrete unless you intend for it to be, in which case you add more water and trowel it to bring moisture to the surface to make the portland in the mix trowel out to a smooth finish. It will still potentially crack primarily because it has no aggregate (rocks) in it. The singular purpose of dry pack is to give you a base that you can set tile on and that will allow water to work its way through to get to the weep holes in the drain as necessary. Hence, you use sand alone with the portland. After two days, when dry pack is completely dried out, it is not going to look very good. The solid areas you see are places you packed a little tighter and had good moisture content and the dry hard “dirt” spots are places that did not get packed as well and/or the mix may have been drying out when you were packing it. Not a big deal but just something to pick up on for your next batch. And yes, taps with a hammer will sound hollow and you could easily break it all out in a short time. After all, it is not very thick and tapers down to the flange. Remember, the purpose of the preslope is only to support your liner and give you positive drainage to the weep holes. You could take it out and try again to get more practice. The most important batch is obviously your finished floor batch. A few other thoughts I may not have emphasized in the video. 1) When you start placing a layer of dry pack, work steadily, don’t take breaks. Try to get it installed while the mixture is roughly the same degree of dampness. For example, the shower in this video took me about an hour and a half to place each layer. It’s a good upper body workout! 2) Don’t walk on an unprotected dry pack. The surface will break down easily and is not designed for foot traffic. 3) My normal routine is to do the preslope one day. The next day install the liner and place the finish floor dry pack. The next day install the floor tile. The next day grout it and the floor is ready to work on top of the next day. I like to get my floor tile set as soon as possible (like after about 24 hours) to protect the dry pack primarily from any inadvertent damage. The second dry pack cures a little slower because of the liner and I like to get my thinset and tile on it as soon as I can. Finally, working with dry pack is all about feel and learning how the mixture works. Getting good with the trowels and the process makes a big difference. You can add more water to the mixture for a more solid base, but it becomes a pain to cut with the screed sticks if it is too wet and your floor will tend get ‘washboard’ waves in it as you work that are hard to get smoothed out. It’s a great mix to learn to work with and don’t be afraid to use this mixture for other purposes besides a shower floor. You can adjust the water content to the needed purpose and get a solid chunk of concrete in a form if that’s what you want and lots of things inbetween! Good luck, Matt! Sounds to me like you are getting it. I do have a more recent couple of videos called “Building A Corner Shower Floor From Scratch” that covers the same topic but addresses a few other points as well.

@@RustyDobbs Thank you for your response, I feel much more confident about how I did!

Hi Lauren! I don't really worry about attaching the liner down because I'm wrapping the curb with metal lath. You might check my latest video on building a corner shower floor where I pour a concrete curb over the bricks to give you another perspective and see if that gives you a little more insight or ideas.

Rusty Dobbs thank you so much! Yes that’s exactly what I did!! I’m so grateful for your videos!! I didn’t want to do a curb out of wood- all the men say that is where the most failures happen. I’m trying to make sure I cover every item I can to prevent failure but I am also maybe overthinking a bit. Your videos keep it simple and straightforward!

I use SketchUp to draw in then export mp4s that I use in Premiere Pro to create the videos.

It is called Dome Charcoal 2"x 2"s and can be found at Arizona Tile. Nice quality tile.

It is ok to start the next step the following day, Peyton.

Thanks for watching, Linda! Good luck on your project!

It takes a wise man to know his limitations before he starts something, Pramienjager! Unfortunately, I typically figure mine out after I’ve already gotten in over my head! Would love to do your shower for you, but as I tell most other RU-vid folks, the travel and meal allowances alone would probably bust your budget! Thanks for your comment and for watching!

Hey, Chris. Can you give me a little more info? So you want the whole 8'x10' area to slope to a central drain or multiple drains? Is this new construction in that, are you pouring a slab that you are going to recess in order to later float in your shower floor? Sounds like you are planning to use a shower pan liner for this area? I think I understand what you are describing which is quite an undertaking. I am comfortable with 1/8" to 1/4" slope depending on size of the floor. The trick with larger areas is cutting in your dry pack to keep a gradual slope without creating ponding areas accidentally just because of the amount of footage you are dealing with. Also, I like to place the entire floor in one session so it dries as one unit which means more help to mix and float to pull that off. Happy to give you some observations if you can give me a few more details.

Hi Rusty, > So you want the whole 8'x10' area to slope to a central drain or multiple drains? One central drain. > Is this new construction in that, are you pouring a slab that you are going to recess in order to later float in your shower floor? Yes, new construction. The area of the bathroom -- oh, hell, let's just call it what it is, the shower -- is 8'x10' and will be recessed below the rest of the slab so I can float the slope up to the height of the rest of the slab. > I think I understand what you are describing which is quite an undertaking. I agree! It scares me a little, because I think I can get into trouble much faster than I can get out of trouble. I'm not sure how unavoidable trouble may be. > The trick with larger areas is cutting in your dry pack to keep a gradual slope without creating ponding areas .... Yes. This is my fear. If I have sufficient depth, then could I do it in two steps? Suppose I float my pan and I see some depressions, can I just float another layer on it or would this second layer sheer off? If there is no possibility of an incremental approach, then I don't think I need as much tolerance as I am currently considering. My thinking is that if I can do this in a few steps, then I'll need the depth for a few bites at the apple, and if I can't then I won't need any depth tolerance. Thanks for the help, Chris.

Yeah, Chris, based on your comments and my sense about what you are doing, I'm going to encourage you to check out some other alternatives rather than the method I show in the videos. It can be done, but it is tricky and a ton of work. I am not an expert on Kerdi products at all and have never used them in a real project for a customer. Here is a link to a tiny house shower floor for my son where I used the Kerdi membrane to build a very unorthodox floor but it is working out fine so far. That is my total experience with Kerdi. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jA3jOJfenSY.html Here might be an advantage or two. Since the membrane would be installed on top of the dry pack with thinset, it might allow you to do the incremental approach you are talking about without issues. Then, the floor tile is set on top of the membrane with thinset and grouted as usual. You could flush out your tile with the finished floor at the bathroom door entrance. There is a drain from Kerdi that ties into the membrane so essentially you are installing a waterproof liner on top of the dry pack that integrates with the drain. Could probably reduce the amount of the recessed pour you would need to make which would mean less dry pack needed to get to your final finished shower floor. Might be the ticket for you. There are RU-vid videos on the Kerdi methods and I'm sure their website has instructional videos as well. The downside is their products are expensive but would probably cut your time in half. Good luck, Chris, and would love to hear what you decide!

No, Jack, I put down a layer of mortar on the slab then set my brick on top of that and built to the height I need which is typically two bricks high. Tile is installed on the floor against the step outside the shower and inside, the shower floor is installed against the step, so it’s not going anywhere.

Good luck on your project, Tracy! New, older homes are the best!

Good luck, David! That's the attitude that will help you get it figured out!

Thanks for watching, LynJa! Good luck with your bath remodels!

Hey thanks, A Boren! The demo is one of the best parts! Take on what you have time to do and don't be afraid to challenge yourself a little. Glad the videos were helpful and thanks again for taking the time to comment!

Good videos Dobbs, clear easy instructions, thumbs up ! The true test is how mine turns out.

Yes, Steven, same process. The main difference you need to be aware of when installing over a wood subfloor is whether or not the floor joist structure under the subfloor is able to handle the additional load of the two layers of dry pack you will be point loading in that space. Generally not an issue but something to explore to be sure.

I set my drain flange as close to the subfloor as possible, Tripp, because I don’t want to get carried away with the thickness of the finish floor. So the pre-slope layer generally feathers down from about 1 1/2" at the wall to basically nothing at the flange. Yes, it will crack the thinner it gets, but its purpose is not degraded because it is there to simply to provide a compacted base for the shower pan to rest on. Hope that makes sense. 🙄

@@RustyDobbs thank you.

Thanks for watching, Vidalia and good luck on your project! Wow, that sounds like a very old school shower but you understand it well enough to keep doing what you are doing. Under the circumstances, I would not shy away from using the 3 layers of Hardiebacker to build back out your wall. I would just want to make sure I had long enough screws to run through all three layers and into the studs. Always predrill pilot holes in the Hardiebacker to eliminate cracking it. The seam is a tough one and I'm not sure there is a good answer. When combining old work with new, you just do what works at the time and makes good sense. I would probably run a bead of silicone caulk into the joint and move forward with the repair.

@@RustyDobbs Silicone a true miracles of modern age bathroom construction! Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement.

Thanks for watching and your comments, Glass! Glad the videos were helpful!

As long as there is no major cracking in the main concrete slab under where the shower floor is located, I would feel comfortable doing an installation like this over the main slab. If you are remodeling a shower in an older home, the concrete and frame structure of the house have been there for some time so you can be fairly confident that most settling has already occurred unless you see visual evidence of something else going on. Hope that answers your questions, Adilene.

@@RustyDobbs it totally helps. The more I know the more I realize there is much more. Thank you for you explanation. You talked about main slab, but the shower bed I have in mind is in not on concrete slab, the house has a basement and the concrete will be on top of plywood as subfloor. Am I in trouble? I’m sorry if this a never-ending conversation. 😵‍💫😬😥

@@adilenecastillo2136 That's ok! I was helping people with questions on their projects long before RU-vid was around. No you're not necessarily "in trouble" but there are other things you need to keep in mind when adding a shower over a wood subfloor. I would kind of need to see your situation before I could offer more insight. If you want to send a few pictures to rusty@dobbsworkshop.com, I'd be happy to give you more feedback. If your basement ceiling is open to see the framing structure under where the new shower would be, that would be helpful to see.

@@RustyDobbs I really appreciate it! I will send the pictures.

Hi Rebeca. Thanks for watching! The materials needed for this are pretty simple and straightforward. Most likely, all can be purchased at a Lowe’s or Home Depot. The drain is a typical shower floor drain that is designed for securing the shower pan to as shown in the video. The shower pan can usually be purchased at one of the stores mentioned or can be ordered from Amazon. I also use bricks of any type that fits the width of the step you want. Metal lath is cut to size and then bent to slip over the bricks. The sand is very typical “play sand” which can be purchased in bags of 50 pounds each. For the shower in the video, I used 6 to 7 bags of sand. The final ingredient is Portland cement and it can also be purchased in 50 pound bags usually. I probably used three bags of Portland on this shower. Other than that, the hand trowels and sticks I used are pretty self-explanatory. I hope that’s helpful!

Rebeca, I also did an updated series of videos recently called "Building a corner shower floor from scratch" that covers some of the same topics and some new ones as well when tackling a project like this that you may also find helpful.

I haven't ever had a reason to try it, Steve. My guess is it would work fine but don't know for sure. My complaint might come based on how it worked being mixed on the dry side.

I will have another couple of videos coming out pretty soon on building a corner shower that also has a seat in it, Mr. Graham. It will be an update to this video with a little more detail addressing questions people have raised in the comments on this one. Hope you will find it helpful!

Yes, Troy. Caulking finishes off any tile job nicely and I use a siliconized acrylic caulk that matches the grout color and texture in all corners. Around the drain I also run a small bead of caulk between the floor tile and the metal drain cover… any places where the grout might tend to crack over time. Thanks for watching!

It has been many years since I have done an upstairs shower, Adam, but yes, basically the process would still be the same. I might do a few minor things differently with the waterproof membranes available these days. The biggest structural concern is whether or not your floor joist design is adequate to handle the added weight of the shower floor though.

@@RustyDobbs What would you do differently if it's on a non - concrete floor?

No problem, Gabrielle. I have another video called "Building a Corner Shower Seat From Scratch" that is built on a wood subfloor. The process is still virtually the same. The only concern is to make sure your wood subfloor and supporting beams and structure is sound. You are adding hundreds of pounds of sand and concrete when building a shower floor directly on a small amount of square footage so you want to make sure the structure underneath can support it.

Yes, Alissa, it would be a good idea to waterproof the area under the shower floor in some way. In theory, the shower pan should protect the subfloor from moisture but since you had a wooden subfloor I would want to protect it anyway. I would even consider using the 'brush on' waterproofing moisture membrane products that are on the market. The only other potential issue I would verify is that the structure under your subfloor is framed carry the weight of the mud shower floor in that location. Thanks for the comment and for watching!. Good luck with your project!