@@hellomynameisinsertnameher6210 My parents abused me and now that I'm far away they're gaslighting me and trying to say I made it all up. Anyway while I lived in their bug infested home, hungry and cold and with wet clothing (Because they turned off the dryer earlier to save electricity) my grandpa would get angry and beat whichever child was close I would ask my family to send me away.
that "THANK YOUUUUU?" terrified me for some reason. butterscotch really thought that his child owes him something for the bare minimum that he does as a father
It totally freaks me out. It's like, that whole time he was not actually talking to Bojack, he just wanted complain about life and his son had the misfortune of being there to be the receptor, but when it was not enough he finally acknowledged him just to be agressive. The only worst thing for little Bojack than his parents ignoring him is his parents realizing he is there to abuse.
Дело в том, что он никогда никому не дарил тепла, это не в его привычке, и когда рядом оказался его сын, он решил сделать одолжение и поделиться с ним своими мелочными мыслями, сам он не привык проводить над собой работу, он же лучше их всех, он пишет великий американский роман, он только живёт за чужой счёт на должности которую выбила ему его жена, ему все испортили жизнь, не дали стать писателем, мне бы очень хотелось чтобы показали момент, когда отец понял, что у него нет ничего за душой после краха романа, как он мечется, придавленный собственной никчемностью, не способный даже догадаться обратиться к своему сыну мне кажется, что слишком хорошо его понимаю
Notice how as Bojack got older, he stopped talking back to his parents when they were bullying him? He spoke back to his father when he gave him the card, earning him a slap. He learned that they continued to berate him until they were tired, so he just shuts down and tries to distract himself with the window in order to minimise the pain he feels. That's how a lot of abused children cope with their parents. They stay silent and keep acting as their parent's verbal punching bag until they are tired enough to leave them alone. Stay quiet and hope that they get bored of hurting you. This show gets scarily real sometimes, a cartoon about anthropomorphic animals is realer than most
This is kind of a scary analysis for me because this scene here happened so often during my childhood and my father was like this more or less. I never thought about it in the way you wrote it because he drove me everywhere and I normalized it.
You can also learn to be quiet because if they abuse you for literally doing nothing then you can prove to yourself that you can literally do nothing and they will still get angry. Kind of the only sense of "I'm not wrong here, its them not me" type of closure you'll ever get. That was depressing to type lmfao
Do you mean responding back because talking back means like he disrespected them and he did nothing to disrespect them when he turned into a grown man yeah he started disrespecting them but as a kid no so be specific dude people like you piss me off they take things the easy way
@@kingfish-sp9oe some parents its still talking back I literally was blinking my family SWORE I was rolling my eyes at them and I got slapped no reason. And if you don't respond or talk back its liable I said ok to something "I AM SO SICK OF YOUR ATTITUDE" that's just plain asshole
@@juliahornback2843 I'd say they're both equally bad. They kind of represent different kinds of awful, Beatrice is the almost 'passionate awful' kind of like how you can get 'hot anger' and 'cold anger.' Yeah she hates Bojack, but she goes out of her way to insult him. Butterscotch on the other hand is more of a 'cold anger.' yeah he also hates Bojack, but unlike Beatrice he doesn't necessarily go out of his way to insult Bojack, it's more like a 'You came up to me/I'm being forced to interact with you so I'm going to insult you.' otherwise he ignores Bojacks, so it's like a 'cold anger.'
I love how Butterscotch's ears are always back how angry horses are, such a nice detail to really bring the untrustworthy & angry vibes to the forefront.
I think us not knowing about Butterscotch's past is just evidence of how little he ever opened up to Bojack, unlike Beatrice who would shove her trauma down his throat whenever she could, so he was almost fully aware of why Beatrice was the way she was, but not why Butterscotch was the way he was. I also just realized "scotch" is in Butterscotch's name frICK. Sweet but subtle.
The scene where Butterscotch is essentially using Bojack as a therapist in the car really hits home to me. Being the eldest or only child, you become a substitute partner and therapist for one or both of your parents a lot of the time. And it absolutely fucks you up as you get older
My mother sometimes vents to me, with my permission and encouragement, but i know she and my dad actively avoid putting me in the second class parent role that so many eldest children fall into. Im very sorry your family used you as a therapist.
Does it really? Dad always complains about my mum when we’re in the car. And when I was feeling shit dad turned it back about himself and said “to be honest I always feel like shit but do I show it? No” then I turn around and say yes you always complain in the car. Then I don’t remember what happend next but I’m pretty sure he was speechless 🤣🤣 lack of self awareness aye
I have been binge watching this show and sitting here wondering how some Netflix writer managed to take me and my family and turn us into cartoon horses...
I am well aware of what he was trying to do. Anyone can see that from the clip. I'm saying that after Butterscotch hitting and berating BoJack for no reason, this is probably the most tolerable he's ever been towards his son, and even then it's only because he's trying erase all evidence of his cheating. Christ.
I would like to point out he did not get bojack drunk, he DRUGGED HIM. lil bojack took 2 swings of straight vodka, theres no way coke and whiskey knocked him out to the point of unconsciousness
*“Pearls are for ladies, Bojack. Pearls are for ladies.”* Did Butterscotch want pearls at one point but his dad scolded him for it? Is there a cycle of domestic abuse we don’t know about?
2:07 A lot of people complain this scene goes on for way too long, but like- that’s the whole point? You are supposed to feel what Bojack is feeling. This uncomfortable feeling of hearing something you don’t deserve to hear. But while in a moving car, you can’t just get up and leave. And Bojack can’t exactly tell his father to knock it off, because knowing his father, he’d say something even more unpleasant than what he is going on about. You are supposed to feel as if you are moving through mud. Not only is it unpleasant to get through, but it’s long and takes forever, as you wonder to yourself when it’ll just end already.
Very relatable for people with shitty parents, they use the car as an opportunity to abuse/berate you while they can because you cant get away and tune it out. Later in life there were times where I just got out of the car at a red light and walked home when their abuse got really bad.
If he talked back I 100% know as a child who’s gone through this that you would then be kicked out of the car and have to find your own way home on your two legs. It didn’t matter if you didn’t know the way, so it’s easier to just shut down.
I love that he spent years working on his novel and it’s just completely terrible, to the point where it has run on sentences that last for several pages
The Autumn of the Patriarch by Gabriel García Márquez is written like that, there is even a sentence that spans nine pages. It’s a masterpiece of a book.
@@rauldjvp3053 For real? It's not as bad as Lemony Snicket's filler monologues about whatever is the main topic of his books about Baudelaires. In "The End" he literally lost it.
@@worldwatcher6999 whats the hype surrounding asoue for i tried reading em so many times and i could never get past the first fifty pages it was so like. dry
It's kind of a symbol of his Ego. It's awful, actively ruining his relationships, and will never amount to anything but disappointment...but he can't let it go. His pride-fueled dream of being an intellectual literati is all he has left, otherwise he'd have to confront reality.
@@thiirdchildren Well, I think it's because the narrator is so deeply involved with the plot in a weird way that so many people like A Series of Unfortunate Events. Clearly, the fictional Lemony Snicket has some problems of his own all while narrating the story of the Baudelaire children. I actually really enjoyed reading that series from start to finish. However, I can see how some people won't like it because the narrator often rambles on about things that are seemingly unrelated to the plot. I suppose it all boils down to whether you like the author's style or not. If you don't like his style then feel free to read something else. To each their own.
Butterscotch probably had it worse than her, coming from a working class family, get screwed over by society over and over again through his life, it’s sad to say that the majority of stuff he says is absolutely true
@@brianwynne2352 Coming from a working class background myself, I don't think what he's saying is necessarily true (or if it is, I at least don't think he's saying it to be nice). My guess is that Butterscotch had an abusive family himself, but believed that's just what parents do to prepare their children for the world, and his attitudes as a working class horse who believes himself to have creative talent equal to Kerouac and Ginsburg but had to marry the upper middle class Sugarman heir and take her father's job offer to have wealth is one of entitlement -- he believes that because he suffered as a child, he is owed better, and that debt is not yet paid. He told BoJack not to depend on anyone, but in his actions and in the rest of what he said, he is passing on the message that the world is unfair and he is owed better. He's the root of the entitled attitude that swallows BoJack up when he gets older and gets reinforced with his celebrity.
Rachel Fox to be fair tho I think he does deserve something, just by the way he speaks in the few times we see him he is clearly more intelligent then every other character on the show and with that intelligence he’s able to see what a shit life he has and how society doesn’t care how smart or talented I are, after all mr peanut butter is very successful even though he’s an absolute moron, and Diane who’s a terrible person gets a happier life than he or his son ever did, proving him right in that the world is unfair and u can’t count on anyone to help u fix that, he tried to fight it and lost, bojack tried to fight it and gave up, it’s really tragic how things turn out for both of them
@@brianwynne2352 Can I say something, as someone who's also considered smart? Intelligence doesn't entitle you to anything. It really doesn't. Whatever you think about the characters of Mr Peanutbutter and Diane aside (and I don't agree), they have skills and goals, and they worked hard at what they do to get what they have. One worked much harder than the other, sure, but in all things, including career, love and their goals and expectations, whatever luck they had, they still put in the work. The world doesn't reward you just for existing as a smart person, and it shouldn't. I worked hard to get to where I am from where I started out, but does the world owe me anything? Fuck no. I'm in a place I rent using the internet I pay for with money I earned, and not just by being smart, but by being a hard worker who built a reputation as a good, agreeable employee. I am not owed a life better than the one I have now, and if I get anything better, it will be by the grace of my hard work and the opportunities others choose to give me. And they will not have owed me anything. No one owes you. You'll do well to divest yourself of that illusion now.
I honestly wish we got to see Butterscotch’s backstory. The way he described “singing songs like my daddy was my mommy while gazing longingly at a tangled string of pearls” and “Pearls are for ladies.” made it sound like he learned a lesson like that the hard way.
If what he said was partially true his mother died when he was young and he was raised by his father. Perhaps when he was young his dad beat him severely for playing with his mother’s jewelry (her pearls). When asked why his dad might’ve justified it by saying he didn’t want his son being seen as “queer” and he did it because he didn’t want him getting any weird ideas. “Pearls are for ladies”.
@@Treeeee2008absolutely. I have a dad that would during my younger years constantly tell me stories about how awful his father was and that he sold his toys and stole his money for booze. But when i got my license and had this reaaaaaally nice oldtimer. (I was so proud of it. An old OpelBKadett Rallye. Completely original) He just outright sold it when i wasnt at home, kept the money to himself and told me i should be grateful for the fact that they provide me with food. yeah. thanks dad...i guess.
Personal theory; Butterscotch's mom died when he was young. Maybe his father wore his mother's clothes as a coping mechanism. Word possibly got out. Butterscotch was bullied for having a "queer dad," so he created this Hard Badboy personality that was 100% heterosexual and manly and in NO WAY queer. Just a thought...
Copypasting a main comment, but i think i at least got a good idea on his motivations: He's weirdly obsessed with becoming a writer, and before his silly, accidental death, he likely had the briefest moment of what he was after his entire life: validation. The one guy that said his book sucked, actually read it. And that was important enough for him to focus on, that he died by tripping on a fucking rock. And since it took him too long to write the damn thing, he likely was afraid of failure. With Bojack, he could at least blame his wife for his existence. We barely got to see how he felt about Hollyhock in the end. But that book? He could never live with himself if it was his fault it'd flop. Until he tried one day. I just think it would have been cool to see that from him. But I guess it is simpler than Beatrice when we think about it. But i do wonder why he wanted to write in the first place? And all that aside, his obviously brutish undertones and abuse to Bojack had to have also stemmed from something. Perhaps he was raised by a family that wouldnt even look at him unless he ammounted to something. Maybe thats why he tried to pick up some high class lady at that ball. To marry and woo her, and to have Bojack to inherit a fortune. But that failed, and was it his fault? No, he tells himself, its all Bea's fault, and the nothing of a child he got dragged into making him the father. But that book he'll perfect, THATS his ticket to being a Somebody. Because despite how other people fuck his life up, he says to himself, this book will be all in HIS making. And it will be perfect, so nobody better screw it up.
Alot of religion people actually believe this. I mean ALOT OF THEM. Ask my zealously religious mother whose just as bad if not WORSE then Butterscotch.
The part where they’re in a car, that was so realistic to the point of it being funny. My dad would blabber on, and I would just sit there like that. Then after talking so badly about my mom, he’d go on sympathizing like “she’s doing the best she can.” Meanwhile, me not saying a word.
A few episodes made no attempt to be funny, and a few others required a pretty dark sense of humor to laugh at. If you have real life experiences like some of the ones on this show, they can be painful and haunting to watch.
My father too. Plus the swirving, and honking. And that, Thank You! If I'm quiet long enough, he may shut up and leave me be, but most times he demands to know why I'm not answering him.
It took me a moment to realize that in the moment where Bojack and His Dad are driving home from soccer practice that Beatrice went to see a /dollhouse/ with her friends. One of Beatrice’s most traumatzing memories is her dolly being burned by Joseph Sugarman, her father. She wasn't crying in the bedroom for attention, she was crying over the memories, feelings, and trauma she endured. If Butterscotch had the gaul to attempt anything that wasn't selfish, he would've consoled her.
@@lagopusvulpuz1571Im honestly glad for you that you dont understand it. But i can explain that to you. A doll can serve as a kids vent. Simliar to animals. It just cant betray you, or hurt your feelings so its the only thing you dont have to consider potentially dangerous. Its just there for you whenever you need it. Its the same for me and my Cat. I sadly live in an horrible househould and when my cat got a little bit sick a month ago i completely lost it and cried for the whole night over the fear of loosing her. Its the only positive thing i could ever associate with my parents house. Im a grown ass man and usually emotionally dead...but damn. Even the thought of loosing my beloved cat let me loose it completely. Dolls are even superior in the way as they cant "betray you" by dying. tldr: You dont want to loose the only source of trust and reliability in your life
@@lagopusvulpuz1571youve never owned a sentimental item before? something that meant a lot to you, or that comforted you, made you feel better, meant anything? one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. a little girl’s doll is not a dumb toy to her. just bc it is to you does not mean it doesnt hold significance.
@@lagopusvulpuz1571 Good for you, honestly. It means you're still untainted by the knowledge of the evil in this world. But destroying a child's favorite toy is one of the most effective ways of breaking their psyche. They bond with and get attached to it like they would another person, especially if they're living in isolation.
The play 'A Doll's House' by Ibsen that Butterscotch mentioned Beatrice had seen and that gave her ideas, is about a woman who realises that all her life she's been treated like a doll - first by her father and then by her husband. Both men have no regard for her desires or needs, she is trapped by the expectations of society that lay out who she has to be. Desperate for control over her own life, she leaves her husband and kids. This is really interesting when you look at Beatrice's upbringing and relationship with Butterscotch. Also, she later comments that 'Horsing Around' "wasn't Ibsen", hurting BoJack's feelings.
And A Doll’s House was written by Henrik Ibsen, considered one of the great dramatists. Beatrice’s insult when she sees Horsin’ Around? “Well, it wasn’t Ibsen.” A comment Bojack echoes in the very first episode. This fucking show 😍
God, this is the stuff that makes you understand why they opted to do this show with animals instead of people. My dad used to tell me stories of his father, and I think this is probably the closest glimpse of the kind of emotional abuse he put him through. Makes me realize how fortune I wam that my dad never turned out like Bojack when he easily could have.
My dad is a butterscotch kinds fellow. It really sucks when someone believes so heavily on their old ways of the past they can't open a new chapter and be happy with their lives. My father just always lived in past traumas, never trying to experience new things in life. It's a shame really .
Using animals also allows for a whole other level of expressiveness, with combining dialogue with the body language of actual animals, like how Butterscotch always has his ears back, the sign of an angered horse
The "Pearls are for ladies" piece is just a really poignant reminder that he also internalized his own traumatic experience, just like we're shown for the rest of the characters. Great way to give a character some implied depth without wasting time
The scene where Butterscotch gets child BoJack drunk to blackmail him into not telling Beatrice about his cheating is next level disgusting. The manipulation and gaslighting... I hate that scene and I hate Butterscotch for doing that. I feel like he never grew up, he was a perpetual narcissistic child.
@@juliahornback2843 I'm not sure I'd want to know. Butterscotch didn't appear to have any redeeming qualities. He thought he deserved literary success despite no apparent talent or commitment. He stumbled his way into a cushy life, but was too stubborn to enjoy it. He constantly screwed up, but took zero responsibility for any of his slovenly behavior. The one time he shows his son any kindness, it's cloaked in deception and manipulation.
What's even worse is that Butterscotch was so scared that he felt the necessity to blackmail Bojack, when actually Bojack was so afraid of both of his parents that if Butterscotch would have just told Bojack to stay quiet he would've obeyed. That's how messed up they got Bojack and how worse they could be as not only parents, but individuals.
I can’t help but want to protect the younger Bojack. He grows up to do horrible things and hurt people but this version of him is still innocent and just wants genuine affection.
It is funny how many “Butterscotch type parents” will never even watch or know about this show and realize the damage they do to their children... Edit: I didn't realize how relateable this comment was, it is sad to know that tho...
@@Outlaw7263 that's not quite true. Your "true self" generally speaking is a pattern of thoughts, behaviors and habits, and those patterns can change, otherwise we'd all be screaming wailing narcissistic babies. It's not easy though, and the older you are the more difficult it is to change
Honestly, those types of parents will just see this as another Family Guy or American Dad and just write it off as crap, which is honestly a reasonable thought for a good bit of the first season.
I actually found it interesting that Butterscotch is actually a shitty and lazy writer. He worked a lower class job for the sake of his book despite not having actually gotten anywhere with it. When he caved and worked at the Sugarman company, he blamed becoming middle class for his writers block. And here we see that he finds all sorts of reasons on “why he can’t write” like having to pick up Bojack despite having the rest of the day. There’s also this part that I just caught now about how he had a single sentence last for pages. I think it was in Free Churro that Bojack revealed when his dad finally came out with his one book, it was ripped to shreds. It’s interesting that being forced into a middle class life or having to become a husband and father wasn’t actually in the way of his book but he’s just a shitty guy that blamed everything around him and couldn’t even take criticism.
Honestly, think about how hard this must have been for Beatrice. She loves literature, she is always reading, she loves art and tries to keep up with certain current trends. She is witty and well educated. Realizing that Butterscotch was a horrible writer in addition to everything else must have been awful for her.
I would not be so sure to think that alone was the reason his book failed, some people sometimes does not have the inspiration to express their ideas in paper as well as in their minds. The most esse tial thing for a wroter is to find the right time and moment to write, it seems he never find it and the idea that was amazing in his perspective could not be transmited in the same way to the public, so he ended up taking his frustrations on everyone else that in his mind was to blame for his inability to write. Specially Bojack since he was for sure not speaking back.
@@rosesweetcharlotte and this is why I hate hook ups after meeting one time 😂 She could've had a different future with that Goat guy. Even if she would still have some todic traits (especially with that "dont love anyone as much as I loved Crackerjack" scene ) but I'm betting the Goat guy would've been there to make her a better person
Butterscotch is one of the few characters where you never really knew what he wanted, you never knew if he cared about Bojack and you never really know anything about his past. I think that's pretty interesting..but it's definitely sad that Bojack and Butterscotch act the same and react the same in almost every situation.
Sons often pick up their traits from their fathers due to idolizing them in youth, causing them to take in the best and worst qualities of their fathers
@@nicolastracz3793 I guess it's because bojack knew so little about his father while his mother always vented about her past to him. besides I think bitters left much less of an impact on him since he seemed to be absent a lot
Neither of them should’ve ever been parents, and Butterscotch knew that. That’s the only moment in the show where either of them acknowledge the effort the other begrudgingly puts in.
I think he felt guilty because it's actually his fault she is the way she is. She gave up everything for him, and he ruined her so, he does actually feel guilty but he's just a shitty being
What cuts me about the Horseman's is how...smart and funny they all are. Its watching so much potential for light, levity, and warmth but the spiraling sadness and cycles of abuse suck it all all up. It eats it like a dark vacuum
It's true. Bojack's parents might have their faults, but they are intelligent and quick witted. They very well could have lived happy lives, but their own demons got the better of them.
Right? Beatrice and her mother were both very talented performer's who's enthusiasm was cut short due to the trauma of loosing a family memeber and everything that spiraled out from that. Butterscotch had a lot more potential as a writer, but saw art as an inherently feminine thing, so was never able to truely able to tap into his potential as an artist because he was so blinded by his manhood. By the time someone from the family actually made it as an artist, he was so normalized to abuse that his inability to grow as a person ruined what impact his art would have had.
2:50 I love the detail that Butterscotch (who thinks very highly of his own writing) wrote a run-on sentence that went for pages and was proud of it. It just further shows his lack of self awareness and liking to hear himself talk
I always thought his failure as a writer is a major reason he and Bea couldn't get along. Bea is an educated woman who loves to read. She is very witty with words and keeps up with art trends. Had Butterscotch actually presented her with a competent piece of work and engaged her as an equal, she may have been a tad bit more forgiving.
Not necessarily a run-on sentence, assuming it's properly punctuated, but most likely garbage, as we're given to understand Butterscotch is a terrible writer.
@@afonsosousa2684 I suppose. I just assumed he made grammatical errors in there somewhere on the first draft. He's the worst and I'm not giving him any credit lol
Oh, that part made sense to me - Butterscotch mentions Kerouac and Ginsberg when he meets Beatrice, and I always had him pegged as one of those On-the-Road-idolizing fanboys who whack it to the Beats.
4:20 the fact that Bojack could handle his father's rant, but the moment he starts going on about women and Beatrice and tries to open up to Bojack is when Bojack can't look him in the eyes
He's used to Butterscotch being hostile and dismissive and so he braces himself everytime he has to interact with him, but he either doesnt want or doesn't know how to react whenever he's actually trying to say something nice. He likely knows thats not the way parents should treat their children even at that age and looks away so Butterscotch cant see he sees right through his bullshit and go off on him being "ungrateful"
I think the fact that Will Arnett voices both Bojack and Butterscotch says alot. Because, even though Bojack is definetly nicer than Butterscotch, they're not THAT different at the end of the day.
Honestly the only thing Bojack has on his father is more self awareness of how shitty he is, which is enough for moments of kindness before he goes back to using and hurting people.
I remember being 15 and telling my siblings that they couldn't rely on their parents to look after them. Because I was trying to look after them, and I knew it wouldn't be enough. My words were true, but it's a different kind of resonance to hear myself in Butterscotch...
The difference is that you were a child trying to step up to the plate and protect them, not use it as a way to excuse you being a piece of shit. Butterscotch said that in order to reject responsibility, you said it to *take* responsibility. It's amazing how different the exact same sentence can be when said by a different person in an only slightly different context.
@@PixelatedPeach "did you get it? Do you get my joke? Do I have to explain it?" "It goes on for another page" "Should I send him back to tell him I get it?"
That car scene really got to me. My dad rambled like that, talking to me about adult problems I shouldn't be able to understand and basically telling me "life is hell you only escape when you die- if you're lucky". Only when he was drunk, though, which was often, on top of the verbal abuse. But one thing I can say about my Dad: He wasn't Butterscotch. My dad had his flaws, but I'm truly grateful for him. The bad moments like these honestly were really rare (and growing rarer, since he stopped drinking and started taking medication), and I know he loves me, and always has. My Dad stayed when my deadbeat POS mom left. My dad worked 2-3 jobs just to make sure me and my sister never went without, *and* had everything we wanted, on top of that. My dad learned how to cook to feed us good, homemade meals. My dad woke up early to make us breakfast and get us ready for school when we were too young to do it ourselves. And my dad never, ever hit me or insulted me directly. And on top of it all: My dad was not his own dad. My grandfather was way worse. Is my dad perfect? No. Never was. But he most certainly wasn't Butterscotch.
Honestly your dad doesn’t sound bad at all. Just like he didn’t know how to correctly warn children about life. Kids need to know, young, but it’s a matter of how you tell them.
This is the same dude who said "the girl went and got herself pregnant" 💀 Maybe it's just me but he makes Beatrice look like a role model in comparison I'd rather suffer a Beatrice type of parent than a Butterscotch
@@remyhavoc4463 so, youd rather have mommy issues then daddy issues? butterscotch and beatrice are classic and kinda stereotypical showings of abusive moms and dads
I have never seen a better representative for a dysfunctional father than this show with talking horses. Down to the long unresponded obsessive ranting, the telling you have it lucky, the belittling, and the constant demand of thanks
2:18 gave me very very uncomfortable flashbacks. My stepdad was like that. Never hit me or anything just so damn toxic. You don’t talk to kids about that kind of shit. During every rant I felt like I was being held prisoner in that station wagon.
That scene gave me horrible memories of being 11 years old and on the way to gymnastics class, and Dad bawling to me the whole ride there about how he is considering leaving home because "it's obvious that YOU don't give a damn about me, it's obvious that your MOTHER doesn't give a damn about me, you treat me like a PIECE OF CRAP," etc, and talking about how "One day you may wake up and find out that I'm not there, and then you and your mother can finally get what you wanted." I wasn't quiet like Bojack so I was sitting there trying to tell him I DO care about him, I didn't KNOW I was treating him like crap and I'm not TRYING to, I started crying and begging him not to leave and trying to tell him I loved him. I remember telling him "I DO love you!" only for him to go, "Yeah, well, I don't believe you. I just do not believe you." Again, I was 11. He dropped me off at gymnastics class and I was begging him to stay and watch me. He yanked his arm away, went, "Just LEAVE ME ALONE" and slammed the door as he went out...
Remember, people, children aren’t your friends or therapists. Don’t give the child a job before they can even process what’s going on. Goodness that’s horrible.
My stepdad did the same thing to me. Constantly saying horrible things about my mom to us and complaining non stop. Couldn't say a word because then your life would be hell
i like how butterscotches early scenes all have a more comical tone (such as the line "that's some shoddy craftsmenship son" with trombone music in the background) but each scene becomes more depressing and real than the last. it's the perfect demostration of how the show itself has evolved.
"Pearls are for ladies" Yeah the writers absolutely had a backstory planned for him and that line definitely had significance why he's the way he is. How many times have lines come back and just mean some shit? Like, "BoJack Kills" and then Sarah Lynn overdosing on heroin named Bojack. Just because Bojack called her to go on a drug binge when she went sober
There were definitely plot lines planned that ended up having to be dropped since the show ended earlier than they planned. It felt like there was more they were going to do with Mr. Peanutbutter especially. The Halloween episode showed how he never grew or changed over time just like Bojack and his relationship with Pickles probably would have ended up being a wake-up call at some point, but they just broke up and that was the end of that. Such a shame we didn't get to see the characters grow (or regress) more, especially since I'm curious how they would have done a COVID parody like they did with the 2016 election in Season 4.
@@megaultrasonic That would've been pretty cool. I do always end up imagining what this show would've evolved into if it hadn't been cut off at its sixth season. Who knows, maybe in the future we'll see this show briefly return. After the last couple seasons, I would honestly love to see this show return in the form of a theatrical film.
@@NerdMiGerd I hope it comes back too. The creator of this show said that they originally had 8-9 seasons planned, and if they were allowed to keep going they had plans for what they would have done afterwards too. Even if their original story got cut short, a revival based on whatever their after story was going to be would be awesome.
yeah damn netflix is shitty af... tuca and bertie got picked up by adultswim after it was canceled, but since bojack had closure i dont think we will be seeing more of it
I felt like they were going to do more with mr. Peanutbutter because we never really saw change with him. Because in the last episode he abandoned Bojack during the wedding and didnt see how he changed and he told the Audience how he just didnt feel like needing a relationship bc he was trying to figure himself out
I realise the scene where Bojack wakes up after drinking the whiskey could just be because Butterscotch got him drunk, but it's scary to think his dad drugged his drink, and begs the question as to what Butterscotch is doing with those kinds of drugs in the first place?
It's unlikely that he would have that kind of reaction after drinking one cup of alcohol so he probably was drugged, I think Butterscotch just did that to manipulate him into keeping quiet about his affair.
I like how Bojack and Butterscoch’s voice sound so similar, referencing Bojack’s fear of becoming like his father. Nice call from the director. Edit: I was wrong, stop liking this. It’s biology not some obscure art. Edit: Maybe I was wrong twice. The tragedy could be in the inevitably of his biology.
They’re pretty much the same person sadly. Narcissistic, cynical, unable to take accountability for anything, verbally abusive, and they had a penchant for having sexual relationships with women with whom there was a power imbalance. Also the alcoholism.
I really wish we got to know more about Butterscotch's past like we did with Beatrice. That "pearls are for ladies" line hints at something deep within him.
My theory is that butterscotch was never meant to make a book about war but instead could of been better at fantasy or fiction. I think butterscotch was told long ago that pearls are for ladies because he was a more creative and expressive with his emotions, and was heavily look down on by all the men around him. I'm guessing butterscotch came from a family where all the men were masculine. He comes from the early 19's where men were hold to a pedestals after all. He still wanted to be a writer so as he got older he started to push those creative ideas away and instead focus on being more realistic and non fiction genres. To be honest I think that's why he was a "bad writer" because he didn't know how exactly to write out a war. I believe anytime he thought of something that could be creative toake the story more interesting, the "pearl are for ladies" line would echo in his head and he would just scratche out whatever creative thought he had and replace it with something more "realistic". Hell even that time when he thought of that sentence that kept going for pages and pages and pages was him going back to his roots but realized "pearls are for ladies" and needed a distraction, which was of course his idiot son having the tv too long. It's no wonder why he spend a majority of his 30-40 years of his life writing on one single book, he didn't know wtf he was exactly writing on. Or it was just a line and there was no hard hitting deep meaning that could cause the planet to spilt in two, like how in the exact same episode with the coffee mug segment. But that's my "head cannon" to that line. If you read all that, thanks.
@@angel_exe24 So maybe Diane at the end of her character arc did what Butterscotch couldn't (throw away his pride to) do. Just write something he could and not be afraid of criticism instead of wasting time rotting in obscurity pretending to be approaching his impossible dream one excuse at a time. HMMM.
It's weird how Butterscotch has these tiny moments where he realizes he's a total dick, but immediately goes back to being one. "No, no... it's not her fault. She's doing the best she can. Sometimes, we need to realize that yourself is the only person you can depend on." That was actually weirdly wise for him.
Is it though? His lesson in that story was "you can't depend on women" and they "are controlled by emotion". Not only that but he teaches his son that he can't rely on anyone, not even seeing the irony that he's also talking about himself. Him and Beatrice are arguably the ones that bojack is supposed to be able to MOST rely on
Just that moment shows he knows what he’s doing is bad. Remember how in (spoilers for season 6) Bojack’s dream state, Secretariat/His Dad said he cared and loved him? I really do think he did. He had signs he was a good person, just with terrible habits. Like the show said... there are no good or bad people. Just people who do bad or good things.
@@thetwistedsamurai that makes sense. It's been a while since I saw it so I might need a rewatch but idk i think that Bojack's dad was pretty fucked up... I'm not sure if he did care and love for him especially since wasn't it Secretariat who was the stand in for his dad?
3:05 I always wondered why Butterscotch even bothered picking up Bojack in the first place. At first I thought it was just because he felt obligated to since Beatrice was holed up in the room. Like trying to make himself more of “the victim” by doing something below the husband status. But he seems to have some awareness of Bojack as a person. Even realizing that Bojack wasn’t home and that he would be too meek to try and walk home himself. Since he was obedient enough to wait for god knows how long for one of his parents to arrive. I assume other parents probably offered to drive him but he declined. So perhaps he felt a bit bad for Bojack being left behind? I feel like Butterscotch tries to be the hero and do things the gentleman’s way because that’s who he wants to be. But in the end he just isn’t that type of person and thus suffers through his own failures.
I think its like how Bojack use to treat Todd. He'll emotionally and verbally attack and abuse him but he knows he has to say or do that one nice thing once in a while to keep control of/ make him seem wanted/ needed by the other. Just like when Bojack built Todd and his rock Opera up, only to sabotage him at the end. It was all to make himself feel good/ important. Bojack is an accessory to Butterscotch just like Todd was an accessory to Bojack.
or he's just doing it to avoid writing and trying to make this an excuse not to write. at 3:39 "you know, Sundays are my writing day. Sundays are the one day that are just for me and my craft. and still, you and the black hole that birthed to you conspired to ruin it for me! what am I supposed to do now? just go back to writing? I'm out of the zone now! the whole day's shut. all because of you and that brittle wisp of a woman you made a mistake of making your mother."
I just rewatched the show. In the penultimate episode "The view from halfway down" Bojack amalgamated Secretariat and Butterscotch, his two father-figures, into one person. He said: "...Speaking as your father, I want you to know that I cared. ... You think I didn't care because I put up walls. But I cared so much, Bojack. About you. About your mother. I wanted you to respect me. I wanted you to love me. I was so afraid that you might know that. I cared so much." Of course, that took place inside Bojacks head in his near-death experience, so you can interpret it how you want. It would be either what Bojack wishes his father would have told him or what Bojack subconsciously actually believes about his fathers motivations, but did not want to admit to himself, because he never was ready to forgive his father. I suggest it is the second one since in the entire episode nothing happens the way Bojack wants. We do not have many scenes depicting Butterscotch, but Bojack lived his entire life with him. So I go with Bojacks subconscious character judgement.
I can totaly relate with the car scene. I'am still glad, my father was very nice, compared to someone like Butterscotch. But they were many moments, when sudenly , and out of nowhere, he made me the victim of his anger and frustration, and he stardet to blame and insult me, for things I wasn't responsible for.
Yeah that scene kinda resonated with me. My dads a good person but it made realize that he has no way of venting his feelings other than putting it all on someone at once I always feel bad because my dad tries to hide these emotions in front of everyone.
Okay, so it's obviously terrible he was cheating on his wife, but the implication is that he drugged Bojack to keep quiet, right? Why did he have roofies??? Ugh, I knew he was bad but I don't like the implication of that.
He didn't have roofies, I think that was just a lot of alcohol. he then blacks out and pukes on the carpet, leading to butterscotch having him keep the whole night under wraps for fear of his mother
I know at the end of the day Bojack is responsible for his own actions, but you can't help but also blame his parents for their endless abuse towards him his entire childhood. If you're familiar with psychology and sociology, lots of research suggests that we are very much the products of our environment. When the only parental figures you ever knew were Butterscotch and Beatrice Horseman, can you really blame Bojack for turning out the way he did?
I see your point, especially as someone majoring in psychology. However, Bojack did reach a point where he realized he was toxic and hurting others. But for a long time he refused to make effective change to himself despite that awareness, and continued to hurt others and himself until his actions caught up with him and the people he was friends with stepped away. Yes it makes sense Bojack turned out the way he did, but he recognized his evils and from that point forward every person has the capability to choose change whether or not they decide to.
@@nicolasnamed like in the episode "Stupid piece of sh*t" where Bojack constantly catastrophizes everything and criticizes every action he makes. When the episode starts, Bojack defends himself by saying that he knows he's a piece of sh*t so that makes him better than the pieces of sh*t who don't know they're pieces of sh*t. But in reality, that makes him worse.
Yeah but if you have a friend like Diane, PC or even Todd, or even especially a sister like Hollyhock, wouldn't you want to change? He certainly did but just thought it was too late :( Hollyhock was definitely the reason why we got Bojack at his most redeemed (the face of depression ep) That's why it's so sad that Hollyhock was the one person who Bojack never talked to or see in the final episode
It's scary after realizing Bojack had flinched for his first drink as a toddler but was obviously used to it when his dad roofied him.. If he was a good father which the show obviously didn't want to intend he would've noticed, I fucking love this show man.
You gotta stop thinking of parents as different from people in general. They are, after all, just random people who decided to have kids. And people can be huge fucking assholes.
What’s truly sad is that there are parents even worse than BoJack’s out there. Imagine parents that actually sexually abuse their own children. There is true fucking evil in this world.
The part where he goes on about how lucky Bojack is, and then pressures him with a “THANK YOUUUUUU” really hits close to home, especially how Bojack kept leaning away as he did so. It’s so common for parents to say how lucky their children are and not realise, in truth, that the things that make the kid so lucky and fortunate ( “loving” parents, food on the table, etc) is actually the bare minimum, and in actuality, the kid’s going through a traumatic ass childhood
Guys this is so sad. This kids life is so dysfunctional because of his parents. They don't care enough to even try to get their shit together for this kid. Atleast they give it to him straight though.
That's the scariest part. It's like you don't want to piss your dad off more and then he freaks out on you with unnecessary anger coming out of his mouth...it makes you feel worse than normal. It feels like you did a crime than a real crime. So heartbreaking.
My parents were crap, so when he has the audacity to just growl out "thaaaaannnnnk yoooouuuu" I couldn't help but laugh. Like, damn dude, just... The fuck are you even doing? Lol
I think that butterscotch was treated as a child the same as how he treated bojack, it would explain why bojack would act similar to him later on in his life, maybe if bojack did actually have a child he would treat them as he was and make an endless loop of shitty parenting and childhood trauma
Actually when he's under the impression that Hollyhock is his daughter even thought at first he's not necessarily warm to the idea, he treats her wayy better than how Butterscotch treated Bojack as a kid by a long shot.
@@zoeyj.7032 True but he also never had to take care of her like his parents did. So is not exactly a fair comparison, since maybe of butterscotch or beatrice would have meet bojack later in their lives as a grown up, they could have not treated him so harshly since in their mind he did not ruin their lives.
It makes me reevaluate one of my favorite scenes in the show, actually. That whole dream sequence Bojack has about a life with Charlotte and their daughter. Its really sweet and all, but could we really expect him to be a good father with the example he had growing up? Because as sad as it is.. I could really see him ranting in a car to his young daughter about how he could have been a great star if it wasnt for Charlotte holding him back
I dislike how similar Butterscotch and my father are, and the car ride was too relatable to my liking. You just sit there and listen to them to the point you just stare off into space like auto pilot mood until they start yelling at you.
When Butterscotch said the "pearls are for queers" it sounded like something his own parents might have beaten into his head. I imagine when he was a kid he might have been interested in his mother's pearls and his father caught him and gave him hell cuz pearls are for ladies and queers and now he is bitter about it, telling the same to his own son
The fact that he got bojack drunk to cover up and make bojack feel bad about his dads affair..and saying “I think your mom would be disappointed in you..” is a straight up manipulation tactic..making it seem like they both messed up is so heartbreaking.. The amount of emotional abuse and gaslighting is unbelievable..it really comes to light in bojack later in life it looks like..considering his poor choices and constant need for substances..
Butterscotch had honestly the best “FU” from life itself. He truly believed himself to be destined writing the great book about the struggling life of the working class and to be forever remember. And what happens? His book is shit, he dies in the most hilarious way possible, few people were obligated to go to his funeral, and his son becomes famous than he’ll ever be. Part of me hopes that he realizes the latter. His son, despite all the abuse he gave, became more memorable than he ever was. And it eats him inside. At the end “fuck you dad”
In Free Churro episode, he did mentioned the details of his death and how absurd it was. And final fu moment to Butterscotch was "I didn't read his book, nor will i do it, because why I would give him that?"
The scene where Butterscotch and Bojack are in the car. And Butterscotch is honking at everyone, talking, saying every little terrible thing he can. And Bojack is just silent. That hit, too hard, for me. That was really the moment when I brought this show a bit deeper into myself.
3:59 Oh god this look. This look that Bojack gives his dad when he finally shows just a hint of humility. It's that moment where you think it's going to be like in the movies. This is where they realize they should do better, this is where they realize they have to make changes. This is the moment that they will finally change. And then they don't.
I always thought it was interesting how they never did a deep dive into Butterscotch's backstory like they did with Beatrice considering how much of an impact he had on Bojack growing up. Thinking about it a little more, I wonder if it's to reflect the fact that he never truly mattered. His big dream was to write the next great American novel and get the praise he believed he deserved because of his own perceived genius. Even when the beat's generation, the one he believed he belonged to, had ended fifty years before he published his novel, he still believed he deserved to be recognized as one of the greats. But even when he did finally publish his life's work, nobody read it and he died unceremoniously defending it from a man he wasn't even sure read it. He never got the recognition he deserved and never left any kind of legacy behind. Even Bojack acknowledges this when he says a free churro would at least be something he got out of being Butterscotch's son. Butterscotch's personal struggle in life to me was that he felt insigificant in a world that passed him by and forgot about him. It's as if he came into this world, did nothing of value, and died with nothing left behind of him. Even his own son replaces him in him in his head with Secretariat as a father-figure so he didn't even have that. Giving Butterscotch his own episode would have made him something to the audience at least, but again, he doesn't even get that.
I think no one really just is, nor good or bad, there is always a reason for someones behaviour, sadly we sometimes never know the reasons and the why that person acted like that, will be a mistery
@@naonaga4260 well unfortunately some people are born with certain severe neurological disorders and or illnesses... some people are born to do bad things. No amount of therapy or correctional programs can "fix" some people.... And even then there are people that walk amongst us every day who have problems like this but may never get any help or "corrections" simply because a lot of them adapt and society is vast. A lot of people pretend to be good people or even fool themselves into thinking they are. Some people use the excuse of religion or culture or politics... But ultimately at the end of the day some people literally just do things to serve their own needs like a starving animal.
He only hints about his past when he rambles on and repeats "pearls are for ladies" probably hinting some abusive or traumatic experience that happens to be maternal with implications of toxic masculinity that are probably paternal or absence of either or
@Jaybriel Rosales how...can you honestly believe that someone being born with a different brain means they were "born to do bad things"? even psychopaths, people born with the empathy part of their brain inactive due to no fault of their own, are able to be decent human beings that do only as much harm as the rest of us do to each other. nobody. *NOBODY.* is born to do bad things. yeah, some of us, myself included, won't ever be able to live up to the standards of what general society considers Good, simply because the electricity and chemicals in our brains fire a certain way that falls outside of the Acceptable way that non-sentient chemicals are Allowed to fire, but that doesn't mean we're bad. neutral? selfish? sure. but not bad. nobody is born to do bad. nobody is fated to be bad or evil. some of us are fated to lack, but not to be bad.
@@dirtburger2773 my statement wasnt entirely literal and even then I'm oversimplifying a complicated topic. i don't truly believe that being "born to do bad" exists in absolute. truth or not i don't want it to be true. I'm not sure how to articulate what i mean anyways.
We got to see what traumatized Bea when she was a child, but I'm really curious about what traumatized Bojack's dad, cos like what was up with the "Pearls are for ladies" line?
I feel like his mother died when he was very young and he was raised by a very abusive male relative who would drill into him this misogynistic worldview.
Ok so I just got a theory. So his mom died right. Some way ppl will try and deal w grief is through belongings, like going through their stuff and giving it a new purpose or keeping something they owned to remind them of it. Since butterscotch acts so misogynistic I'd assume he picked it up from another misogynistic person. That could be his father. When his mom passed what may have happened is that he wanted to keep a pearl necklace or perhaps was going through her jewelry box. Maybe there was a special moment between them when she was wearing pearls. Either way his dad catches him with the pearls and that probably results in a very abusive, aggressive scolding where he says allot of misogynistic maybe even homophobic shit. When he is doing so he says "pearls are for ladies". Just a theory thought
It's poignant that, "Free Churro" begins with the car monologue from Butterscotch with the young Bojack not actively listening, but still witnessing his father's utter disdain for his wife as well as his all-around misogyny. The rest of the episode is the funeral monologue from Bojack, also ranting about Beatrice. Bojack's definitely not the same or nearly as bad as his father, but it's clear he still internalized a lot of his delusions and dysfunctions because of the male role model he had. They share a tendency to complain endlessly, to view themselves as eternal victims, a lack of true understanding for women, and a general sense of self-centered self-loathing.
