BUYING A ROBINSON HELICOPTER EXPLAINED 

Hi , Could U do the Cabri G2 Costs ??

Wow! Thank you so much. This is absolutely amazing in understanding all of metrics which is something I have been trying to sort out for awhile now. As always your videos are just the best!

Great video as usual. Keep cranking out the content.

Few things to consider when researching used R44’s is ADS-B compliance and Lycoming SB 569. In particular compliance with lycoming’s service bulletin on crankshafts will be costly unless you send the engine to Lycoming for overhaul. That alone can be used to haggle the price down if the engine is affected by the S.B. Aside from that the video is very informative and on point when it comes to considering the purchase of a used R44.

Great job in breaking this out, very good way to show purchase cost- it would be interesting to add the maintenance cost per year for overall costs

Thank you so much for sharing your great knowledge about theese topics! This is a really helpful guide ;)

Thank you for sharing your knowledge

The flight school I went to has an R22 with 11,000+ hours total time on it. It's been maintained very well.

Very good analysis and very practical and useful!

Excellent explanation of the economics of helicopters !

Great video thanks Mischa! Would also love to see a Cabri G2 Video!

Fascinating, thanks for creating this video!

Very informative! Great explanation, thanks.

I am not planning to buy a helicopter but this video is very very interesting. Thank you to shed the light.

very well explained , ill look forwards to your hourly costs break down video too.

Hey, just want to say thanks for putting up such great content. I'm in the lower mainland and will have to come do an intro and talk about training when the world feels a bit more sane. :)

We done. Great video. Properly done You might want to explain how you drafted the spreadsheet

I would love to see a video like this on the Cabri, or maybe even your thoughts on experimentals to own privately like the Rotorway a600 or the Safari 400 or 500. Also I would LOVE to hear your opinion on the Mosquito, is it a flying casket?

Great vid! Very useful, thank you

awesome video Micha. Well done sir. Keep safe sir

Fascinating. This is extremely illuminating.

Excellent explanation of the pricing of the R-44. I own and fly an Aviat Husky, which I thoroughly enjoy. I think the other place to buy & sell aircraft is Trade-A-Plane, which in my experience is as good as Controller.

Great info video Mischa. I can see Corona though changing the R44 pricing within the next 6 months, will be some real bargains around. Exactly why I sold my R44, was not utilising the hours and calendar was getting away from me, perfect machine for a commercial operator.

Great video Mischa and good insight. Really need to operate the aircraft within a company so you can take a depreciation charge against it as the cost of these is phenomenal compared to other aircraft especially if you factor in 'saving' for the overhaul.

Excellent video!

That’s a really good price breakdown Micha. Very much on point for a Raven II. A good field OH will run you approximately $230k.

Great Video. Loved it. Does the R22 follow the same basic scheme execpt lower $ values.

Thank you It is very interesting. I will check your data.

Thank you for this video definitely had some a-ha moments.

Thanks Mischa, I have been looking for an in-depth analysis of buying an R44 like this and there is nothing out there so this is gold! So, if I am showing a large profit on my LLC and accountant says sink this into a $90,000 12 year old or 2100 hour R44 company helicopter that either needs an entire overhaul do you have a spreadsheet of the new values? Or, if I buy or finance one of the first examples that has lots of hours on the table and I do a leaseback to a flying school, how much does this bring my annual operating costs down as an approximate %? And what % per hour costs if I am considering hour building to get a commercial license? I remember before you mentioned a couple of your students did this and bought an R44 yo do theit hour building in to keep their hour costs down versus hiring a flying school r44. One last question is what finance options are typically available in terms of loan to value? Kind of like a house, not everyone buys these cash and financing is the only way Can't wait for the next R44 owner video. Thank you!

Want to join your flight training for a Commercial license in the near future, would be a dream come true!!!! Love your videos, keep them coming!!!!

Great info

According to the type certificate information for the R44 the only components with a calendar life limit are the main and tail rotor blades. Everything else you can fly the full flight time limit no matter how long it takes you. Also in many actual instances of use unexpected damage or failure does occur and components get replaced out of sequence. I wish determining helicopter value was as simple as you present it here. The manufacturer recommends more maintenance than is required by the FAA, that any service center will be more than happy to sell you. This is a good explanation for someone to understand the concept, but for anyone considering making a purchase please consult an expert.

The previous fans have really covered the practical benefit of your presentation. I just want to say that the only time I have heard such a good analysis was from my friends in the business. A civilian would never think of all that you provided in minutes. As always, Thanks again.

great vid

GREAT!!! PLEASE do same for R66.

Hello There I love this video and find it very helpful. I've been watching your videos and searing the ones i haven't watched yet of a breakdown like this for an R66. If I missed it can you direct me to it of if there isn't one can you do one for a R66 as I'm in the early stages of trying to figure out my options on buying an R66 for tours plus a charter service from the airport to lake front homes. Thanks for the help

Next video, how much to own a cabri g2 or R22 helicopter. The maintenance and other costs of owning. For inspiration purposes 🙏

Hey Mischa, another great video. This is not particularly important, just a note from someone who does freelance video for a living. For these indoor videos to camera you're shooting during shelter in place, try setting the white balance on your camera to manual and setting it to likely 3200k (tungsten) for this lighting setup. It will make your skin look a lot less orange. And since you're not moving around, it shouldn't change so you shouldn't need auto. Just a thought!

keen to see what happens to prices once this pandemic is over; guessing it'll be a buyers market for a while.... As it might be for just about any comotidy product...

Totally off-topic but was watching a past vid with you and Sam on steep confined landing and you had him open the door and look out at the tail to see if it was positioned as he pictured it on the recon. My question: almost every modern car has a backup camera now. Have any helicopter manufacturers adopted this tech yet? Seems like tail position and it being clear is so critical and would be a fairly low-cost safety feature. Love the channel, trying to figure out a way to convince my wife I can be gone for 4 months to come up and work on a PPL!

I'm wanting a Robbie66Turbo but waiting till MFS2020 comes out at the end of the year....the MD500 for sure!

Do other aircraft like a JetRanger/AStar have the same time depreciation on parts? Like if you are not flying an aircraft, do you still need to replace parts over time? I guess tubes/bladders have to be replaced even when you are not flying, but what about metal/other parts?

Thank You

A controller.com tire kicker only, but will look at the listings differently now, thanks for your insight. Regards from False Creek :)

Hey Sir Micha, appreciate you talking absolut Epic this list for me a very very much understanding about the price from a shopper in generally ! This is absolut the same in car selling in Germany ! I realy thankyou very much from Germany I always ask me way this shoppers so expensive ? I also gave the Video to my friend in Colorado, but he is a Robinson hater just not to well understand all about helicopters jet and way so much crash ? You did a awesome job with your world tour !

Im a AME R class Plus Good info VT

Thanks! What does the $290,000 “overhaul” get you?

Hi, Could you please make a video on AS350 B3 ownership cost & approx per hour cost?

Hey mr.yellow. Thanks for your great videos. I’ve asked this question before but can you release any controls on a helicopter while flying to relax or to stretch at all.

Very informative video. How can you determine the hours on a helicopter besides the log book?

Good info but what do you have to say about helicopter like the Ranabot & the Cicare helicopters?

I doubt I'll ever be a legit helicopter owner,more like a Mesquito XET at best, but I found your video very informative and when I win the lottery,and can afford a legit one, I can now have an idea of prices and the value behind them. Might even hire you to train me!!!

From an owner: good discussion on what your hull is worth. But...the REAL discussion is about operating costs. When you do "Part 2--Operating Costs", for US owners be sure to explain how that differs for Part 91 and Part 135 operators. Consider that your discussion is really for the true private owner, not a pro who should already know this (but so many don't). For US based, private, Part 91 owner/operators, be sure to cover the path of a 12 year inspection vs. 12 year overhaul and how the engine can continue to operate past 12 years on-condition up to 2200 hours. Those distinctions can make it or break it for that sort of operator. Also remind people that they need to create an escrow account and be charging themselves back for flying or they are going to join the "I posted my run-out on controller.com" club. Do that and owning a Robinson is no different than owning any other helicopter, i.e. Robinsons should not be "throw away helicopters". Explain how amortizing insurance per flying hour is their biggest expense. Thanks!

Great information! Does anyone have a similar spread sheet for AW109? Of course much more complex with P&W turbine vs Tacoma

Cabri Cost/value video similar to this one?

What if you buy a Bell 206 year 1990 , is it already rebuilt ?

Bell 505 vs R66 pricing would be a great video idea

Is there a place we could get our hands on this list ?

What would that scenario be like for a Schweizer 300C ? I can't see why the Robinson would be so expensive, you had better have a lot of work lined up at that kinda money just saying. Thanks for the video M

Your opinion on coaxials

Years and cost should be separate from hours and cost. You could then use the equation from a graph of both of those to input the year, or hours as the variable in whatever equation excel spit out. Using that formula in another cell, average the output (price) from year and hours for a better estimate on what the pricing should be. Of course this doesn't account for instrumentation or "upgrades."

hi do you know r44 helicopter how much main rotor and tail rotor rpm, take up

This was vert informative, thanks. The question on my mind is why would I rather go for the R66 than the R44? Why I'm asking is because of these type of matrix's that I didn't know about. How would a matrix like this look for the R66? Did Robinson follow the same principle as far as overhaul and maintenance goes with the R66? Besides more space, what other benefits would the 66 offer and how would these benefits support the price premium? Lots of questions in this I know, but you most probably have gone through this thought process before and can help me out with this...

How about old helicopters like Agusta westland from 80s or maybe an eurocopter from 2000 do they need extended overhauling or something to do in order to be reliable.

Hi - I arrange financing for clients buying Robinson helicopters here in UK. I’m wondering if the depreciation you are using is always a straight line from year 1 to 12?

The only thing that is calendar time 12 years is blades in the USA as long as you are part 91 135 requires the 12 inspection

I saw one flying over my neighborhood, it had a yellow box attachment on just one skid. Anyone know what that is?

Could you talk about the after 2200/12y overhaul selling price?

Nice, thanks! Reminds me of my most recent video, on my own channel 👍🏻 That episode is about tips on buying used aircraft. Not specifically on helicopters, but there are some common things, I think?

Robinson's model seems to be more or less based on the "Power by the Hour" maintenance contracts widely used in the airline industry for components, with a fixed hourly cost guarantee over a Line Replaceable Unit's operating life by having that standard all-in fixed overhaul interval that lets airlines precisely forecast their costs, although it only really works with consistent high utilization. I was in the Regional Airline business for many years and the same problem you described, re: accelerated calendar depreciation, impacts Corporate versions of Regional airliners, where the utilization is only 300-400 hrs/yr for a Challenger 850 (basically a CRJ200 with a corporate interior), vs 2500 hrs for a regular CRJ200 in its flogged-like-a-mule Regional life. So Challenger 850s, which mechanically identical and are therefore built like tanks from a corporate perspective, were getting really hammered by calendar depreciation when operated under the normal CRJ200 Maintenance Program, until Bombardier finally certified and introduced a Low Utilization Maintenance Program that extended the calendar intervals for aircraft operated less than some threshold hrs/yr (I forget the actual number). It's too bad Robinson can't, or doesn't want to, develop and certify a Low Utilization overhaul scheme for their helicopters which would really help with residual values.

Excellent video thanks! (potential owner)

I was considering buying a EC130 T2. Any thoughts?

Do you recommend buying or Leasing for an average person flying average amount of iron roof per year

So, if you plan on flying: old but with small hours. Or if you want to own it and use it sporadically: new, but with high hours. Makes sence ;)

Was looking at an MD500D, think I'll give it 18 - 24 months!

If you bought a 12 year old or 2200 hour helicopter and paid for the full overhaul as per requirement, will the helicopters worth/value thereafter be that of a brand new helicopter?

I would love to be a owner but I’m not sure that I’d ever have the time to fly the hours it needs to make sense of a purchase

Where are you guys located in Canada? I couldn't find and address anyplace on your website.

My question is how do you know hours logged are actual hours. I know it's hard to believe but some people aren't honest.

Pricey machines that’s for sure!

What about r66 is it same as r44 or is it like jet ranger

people keep telling me that the abandoned robinson r22 i got it's not worth fixing it. but if we consider the price of buying a used one and overhaul-ing it, and that i have a free robinson r22 which i didn't pay even if it gets to the price range of 250.000$ i think i we are good. (if i had the money i would have go for a gabri g2 for sure)

How did you produce that depreciation chart?

military helicopter pilot here. This video convinced me to go the fixed wing route for personal ownership 🤣

The only issue is you're actually off by a year on your table. You count year 1 as 0 hours and therefore are only showing hours accumulated over 11 years.

Is it the same deal with the R66?

Weird I bought my Baron in CAD no USD weird.

Would a 12-year-old, overhauled R44 be worth what you've spent on it ($100,000+$290,000=$390,000)?

Good video. I am an AME and know about components timing out because of calendar time, flight hours or cycles. I used to work on Jet Rangers and 15 years ago, they would charge $1200/hour if someone wanted to charter it. Bell 205’s were twice the cost. I didn’t know Robinson made their maintenance schedule so simple. Good idea. It makes tracking components so simple. I know you fly Cabri aircraft. Is the maintenance low and less cost on those? Thanks

How was the depreciation value calculated (the middle column value on your spreadsheet)... is that a given Robinson value ? How about Cabri costs too :)

ok

A plane runs 30 years . Why the helicopter parts wear so quick?

easy heli to keep track of components on too,, Next due? everything... biggest worry on a private machine is if they know how to disconnect the hobbs meter seen it...... Turbines is guys throwing gas and diesel or heating oil in them to save a buck. and you dont know till you look at the liner in the engine ..and turbines need runs to keep the FCU and engine lubbed, and that has to go in the books. any C20 engined machines need compressor disassembly at the 300 hr if they are near salt air. and compressor washes if they see salt water nearby, and get ready if you ever have to take a gearbox etc thats on condition in, All the due next visit things will cost ya,, and if your leasing one especially as your eating it after the normal 100Hrs and the lessor pay.. Component overalls take only half the time to do vs what they bill... and there is are cheaper places than the top picks too.because of it..

How much cost would gas add in?? If you were to fly 200 hrs a year

When the prices comes down about x10 times it will be expensive but something thats remotley possible to buy

Why are all aircraft sold in USD regardless of geography?

Take into account the somewhat limited helicopter market, not everyone wants/needs one like a car. IF you seriously need one and can afford one, this vid will illustrate cost/ownership values. Seasonality, product (think Boeing right now), flight restrictions (can't fly as much during Covid-19), war-we still have war with other carbon Based Life forms.

I will never be able to buy (mind you, two years ago I never thought I would be able to fly...) and I can only quote a great sage, ‘if it flies or floats, rent don’t buy’. He said another thing, but I forget what.

Just one comment, the plural of aircraft is aircraft🙂