Piston vs. Turbine Engines WHICH IS SAFER?? 

Love it that there is no stupid background music, just the good information :)

90% of the piston engine problems can be solved if the manufacturers start producing aviation piston engines with technology similar to atleast automotive engines from 90s

Nothing like the sound of a turbine spooling up! I watch videos just to hear that!

I enjoy these R44 and R66 comparisons as they are the most popular and sold craft period. Please keep these videos coming!

For those subscribers that are not familiar with the basics of these engine types your explanations are very well put. Thanks.

Good job on explaining the engines. I learned a lot!!

Thanks for being so thorough in your explanation

Dude your awesome man. I love you videos. You have so much informative intel. Just found you stuff today and I've subscribed.

Awesome another video. Good morning Micha. Have a great day and thanks again for your content. Love it

Being an A& P mechanic I really haven't seen a stuck valve in the Lycoming but a cracked jug. The cylinder where the manufacturer screws the cylinder together is generally where the crack occurs. I have the Allison C250 in my GLASAIR III and I absolutely love it. Flying cross country from Illinois to Arkansas I always file IFR at 17000 FT and it take 2 hours 20 minutes to go a little over 600 miles

Thanks... Very informative and interesting... Still a turbine fan!!!!!

The most dangerous period for an engine is at the end of its life but also at the START of its life. They do suffer from infant mortality issues due to assembly flaws or undetected defects, and the 1st 100 hrs is riskier than subsequent hours. A Lycoming is at its safest between 200 and 2000 hours. Even there, an engine like an O-360 will readily go 3-4000 hours with perfectly good safety if maintained and operated carefully. The most important single item is proper inspection of the exhaust valve of each cylinder with a borescope to detect leakage, and detection of stem/guide binding and reaming if necessary. Next is monitoring the camshaft, a weakness with Lycomings, although the degradation is gradual. Take care of the exhaust valves and change the oil regularly and keep and eye on the cam and lifters, and they'll run just about forever.

Awesome!! Clarified a lot of my doubts! Thanks a lot

Professor Misha. I love this new curriculum. Keep it up.

Excellent description of both perks and flaws, and specially I enjoy the start sequence explanation.

Thanks for this briljant explanation. Although not working in avation, I have been reading about helicopters for about thirty years now and your film at last made some of the technical stuff more clear. And doing that by just talking and using your hands: magnificent job sir!!!

Well done a must watch for every student.

Another informative video. Thanks!

Thank you very much for taking the extra time to explain the difference between the two, i was shocked to learn the differences in replacement costs, almost a deal breaker some might say. Really enjoyed the way you explained how the fuel costs pan out similar overall. Perhaps you can also include running costs per hour as well?

You deserve more subs! Always enjoyed your videos!

Am new to have interest in rotor aviation, n this video has given me ample info. Thank u bro

Thanks for an amazing channel!!

Very informative. Now I know the differences between the two types of engines and their particular values.

Why do people thumb down these videos. This guy is great! Love watching your videos

Thanks so much for the info!

Great video Micha. I miss you guys and I hope to see you this year! I have plans to come in July if the pandemic is over 🤞

Thank you for your explanation of the two types of aircraft power systems great job for teaching a new excite

Finally the video where I get to know the starting and working of a turbine engine....💯💯💯💯💯 Explanation is great...🔥🔥

Great explanation ... Misha, please feel free to continue with your feelings on different aspects of the helicopter. I enjoy hearing your views... maybe talk about the different avionics packages available in a helicopter and why different people choose them over other packages. Still hoping for news or teasers on 4 seater Capri... All in all great video .. cheers Andy

Hope you guys are safe, well & keeping sane? Great video, please keep them coming! Can you see Guimbal offering a turbine option on the G2?

This is the video i was looking for,,, then today you made it, wow

Very good explanation you are a natural.

Very helpful thanks!

Liked your video. The compressor, at the front of the Allison engine, compresses the air for combustion. Fuel added in the combustion chamber ignites to drive two sets of turbine wheels. The first set is driving the compressor, the second is connected to the gear case where rpm is decreased to output shaft speed. My father suffered a catastrophic engine failure in 1986 when the first set of wheels sheared off the shaft due to a flaw in the wheel casting. This is very rare.

That was a great explanation. Was curious about how turbines worked.

Thank you for explaining it Sir

Good info. Thanks Bro!

I appreciate this video. Keep them coming! Also still waiting for your opinion on the Mosquito ;)

Thats very sincere analysis of Piston and Tubrbine engine . you are so dedicated and sone very nice work . I enjoyed from starting to end of this vedio . great work . I really appreicate ...

Great video!

A stuck valve disables one cylinder in a flathead (side valve) engine, while the other 5 still keep working. D-Motor.

Love the explanations. I mostly fly the Bell 206 Jetranger and the R 44. I will say,it takes a brave man to start a turbine engine!

Dang that's some detailed comparison. Very different from the usual comparison u get from youtubers based on personal taste lol .. + respect

Very informative, great

A video with both engines starting and spinning up the blades would be very helpful to envision what you are describing. Clutch opening and tensioning the belts, Governor application, etc.

Great information, it comes down to what ever your pocket book can handle. 👍🇺🇸

Too much information but perfectly explained. Thanks a lot for your time an effort. We apreciate it. 👍

Super presentation. I liked that an average person could understand it who has no mechanical base into this field etc.

Awesome explanation

That was an interesting video of how the different types of engines work in a helicopter there and I know alot about some of the pistons types already here cause it applies to the common engines in some different machinery that ive helped work on here now the turbine engine is something that I know little about though too until you just described it to us here too have a great day now

Nice video breaking it all down. I got my PPL(H) back in 1987 at age 17... getting sentimental about GA again and thinking I should get current and fly again. Not so keen on the Robinsons thought I have to admit.. but they seem to be cheap to own and fly and very popular now. Just wish they would put in a real cyclic :)

Please note that it is the pistons that move up and down not the cylinders and in the jet engine that the air flow is introduced before fuel is added or you will get a melt down or a HOT START ergo ultimate engine destruction. Otherwise a really good description by you on all your technical videos. Cheers😀Henry.

Very cool explanation 👍👌👌👍

love from India bro. keep it up hope soon u will be my GURU........

Now thats......SWEET N SIMPLE 👍

The helicopter{ turboshaft } or turbine engine was invented by Turbomeca a french company. Now Safran Turbomeca helicopter.in 1948. In 1955, Turbomeca's Artouste II turboshaft engine was adopted for the new Sud Aviation Alouette II helicopter, which became the world's first production turbine-powered helicopter one year later...Starting in 1957, the firm started the manufacture of the Bastan turboprop for the Aérospatiale N 262 airliner.

Thank you so much for explaining the distinctions between the two aviation engine technologies. Back in the 80s the explanation was too simplistic but I did understand the basic dynamics of their operations. I was not surprised that the first generation Jet engines burnt out quite quickly because the one or two stage compressors and single stage turbines worked too hard. The introduction of more stages allowed the sharing of the burden of combustion in all stages by the second generation jet engines and thus started the new evolution of new jet engines that has spanned the 60s and 70s to the present day. I noticed that the American jet engines underwent regular TBO settings because of great overuse in both the war and civil applications. I think the same applies to both Russian and Chinese jet engines currently. So far since the middle 90s jet engine types have stabilized and maintained great technical endurance and reliability due to the introduction of much better high tensile components. I presume that jet engines of the mid 40s could climb faster and maintain rate of climb even with powerful armament and offensive payloads and even when firing their cannon on the climb the performance of the aircraft is not compromised. Note the difference with the high performance radial pistons and some good quality inline aero engines. The former could generate a lot of potential energy thanks to the repetitive and copious generation of energy..one exhaust stub could accummulate all the different outlets of the mini exhausts for the generation of thrust. the wide air intake obviated the need for a radiator. the cool air allowed the intake of a generous amount of air which were impelled and heated up by the multiple spark plugs forming a roundrel around the nose of the open blunt nose of the engine nacelle. At least it was stable and more reliable than the rotary engines of the first world war. I think the radial piston engine was an evolution of the rotary engine with air cooling replacing the castor oil of the first world war. Please do not be offended but I do have a number of questions that I want to put to you. 1. Would it make a lot of a difference if the second world war pistons were constructed of carbon resistant materials today? 2. If the aero pistons were powered by autogas would it affected the power integrity of the high throttle settings used for take off? 3. With reference to the first question as an add-on, would the use of carbon resistant materials not allow for the greater dimensions of the aero engine thus permitting greater generation of horse power to equal if not surpass that produced by the turbo props? 4. Can you give me the names of any company that will be happy to look at my designs and ideas for a new set of engines as I do have an inventive mind? Thank you so much for even making time to read my piece. Lenin Chigbundu/ conbin@live.co.uk

Very good explanation. What type and model webcam are you using? Thank you.

Thanqu sir good explain for tarbain and piston engine s love from india

Thanks, well explained.

Good job

Hi Mischa, great video! What do you think of a Konner diesel turbine in a Cabri ?

👍. What’s the price of the Turbine 1.TBO and 2. TBO on the R66? Thank you

Thank you, very nice video. It would be really helpful too if you can add some animations/ pictures while you are talking. Thank you ☺️

I don’t know about Aircraft piston engines, but besides stuck valves bent pushrods and broken springs can cause top end failures. Another problem is multi groove valve keepers. Don’t ever use them in a car that see any spirited driving and I would go out of my way to avoid them in an aircraft engine. Another really common failure point on Chevy Angie said is when some guys rebuild or re-ring their engines they don’t replace the oil pump pickup tubes. Then they seal,the oil pan with silicone. If they use too much the excess Silicone gets pinched off and breaks loose to float around in the oil pan, where the oil pump pickup sucks into the odor pump which then seizes, destroying the engine. Always replace the oil pump pickup tubes and follow manufacturer specs when using any kind of gasket sealer!

There are a nuber more things on turbines that were not included here and for this group are just as well because the subject is reliability vs a recip engine. But you are correct in heat is the killer of jet engines. Heat and fod. You covered both to a degree. As a A&P, IA for 40+ years, Trained by the Navy on jets I would say you have a better than average grasp of the subject. As with most things the rabbit hole goes much, much deeper. Have a great day and be safe.

I Think you covered it well

I love the sound of a turbine engine spooling up, I love both types of engine but my favourite has to be the good old piston engine preferably with carburettor, I find piston engines a lot easier to work on/fix etc and I love the sound they make

Hi Mischa - How much of a weight penalty does the R66 incur carrying more fuel due to its higher burn rate?

Could you do a specific topic. I have been trying to find out how to go from Private pilot with the normal piston engine to a turbine engine. How long is the class, whats involved, etc. Also is it two different classes for a single turbine v/s twin turbine?

I've spent most of my time in turbine helicopters. On a whim, I went over to a flight school and jumped in an R22. After that experience, I'll never get in another piston helicopter again. I'll be waiting for the Hill HX-50 :)

Good stuff. Just a small correction though. The front part isn't a turbine. It's the fan and compressor section. It being a turbine means that something else is causing it to turn such as air or water. The fan will push air through the turbine which starts the feedback loop of the turbine running the compressor and the compressed air running the turbine enough that it can ignite.

I've noticed that a R44 has better tail rotor authority then a R66 or even a Bell 407 and I think that's because the governor in the derated piston engine can power up faster then a turbine can spool up when it quickly needs a little extra power.

A question and then some pedantry: from my reading from "how to fly helicopters" books there's a minimum power airspeed, about 40kts where the helicopter is at maximum endurance, minimum power/fuel flow. With a heavier load, this speed increases, right? So my question is then, if you have an R66 and an R44 with the same loads which one has the lower maximum endurance speed? I assume that with range variation (needing more fuel in the R66 to get somewhere) eventually one of these two will be more efficient for the job than the other - for short ranges the R66 would be really light and burn much less fuel. Now the pedantry. The air goes through the compressor first, not a turbine. Your R66 will have 1 centrifugal compressor (surprised it doesn't have an axial one), a 2 stage turbine after the combustors to drive the compressor, and then a 2 stage power turbine to drive the rotor system. The compressor is not a turbine, it doesn't absorb power from a fluid and convert it into shaft power, it does it the other way around. Check out AgentJayZ's youtube channel for a really thorough run through of everything jet engine and gas generator. He even does helicopter engines, but they seem to usually go into boats. Canadian guy, too.

@Misha, Thank you so much. Here in New Zealand, we have to have a "gas turbine" rating here, is that the case in Canada or the US? As opposed to merely flying piston engine rotary-wing aircraft.

Thanks for the explanation. I agree with you about cost. I always wondered why larger car engines cost so much more. Basically, the exact same engine with slightly large bore and larger pistons. The manufacturing could not be that much more. I guess the answer is, just because they can get more for it. More demand. One day the Chinese will copy the turbine engine and sell it at Harbor Freight. Then you can use a 20 percent off coupon and buy is for the same price as a lawn mower. Will not need spare parts, just throw another one in when it goes.

well done

Based on current fuel prices in the UK, (£1.50ex.VAT for 100LL and £0.50ex.VAT for JetA1 per litre) the RR600 will burn about £80,000 of fuel over the 2000TBO but the IO-540 will burn £180,000 in the same time, or £198,000 in its time TBO. There’s a massive saving to offset the costs.

Could you do a video on tail rotors please? Notar v exposed v enclosed . How do they compare, what’s the safest, how is the performance etc

I saw a bent pushrod from a stuck valve once out of an R22. They were just hovering when it happened. Had to do an auto.

Just wondering if you can comment on the advantage of turbine vs. piston powered helicopters at altitude or on mountain operations.

Metal parts reversing direction thousands of times per minute vs all parts moving in the same direction. The biggest factor; Cost.

Currently doing my PPL, and I really enjoy your content! It supplements my study material so well, and really helps me better visualise a lot of things instead of just learning verbatim from textbooks. Thanks for this! Happy flying!

I personally like the Military explanation. Turbine, we win battles and get stuff where it needs to go. Piston, we are just goofing off. lol

Pretty good explanation of things ... and both systems if procedures are followed should be 100 % reliable ... There is one remarkable divergence though .. A turboshaft engine is generally 5 times as expensive as the equivalent piston engine though as you pointed out once they get past 400 HP there are no equivalent piston engines ... They simply do not make any .... Now a piston engine usually wins hands down in thermodynamic efficiency ( less fuel for equivalent power ). But as you mentioned as well the turbine is half the weight ... In a two to four seat heli the piston engine wins by a landslide on procurement and operational cost ...Cheaper to buy and run

I have to admit, I was a little surprised at how close the power figures were between the two, at least with respects to the Robinson models you were comparing. I was also surprised at how close the TBO numbers were. From what I've read, I would have thought the turbine would have had a noticeably high TBO number. On the power derating thing, you talked about how that was good for engine longevity and that makes a lot of sense. However, with respects to helicopters, I've wondered how much the power ratings for the helicopters main drive systems (main drive belts, transmission and tail drive sections) might be involved in derating the engines installed? Can you comment on that? Thanks!

Power to weight ratio in a turbine is hard to beat! Another one for me would be noise, those Lycoming can get loud! but are very reliable when properly maintained. If price was no option turbine is the way to go. If it were my first chopper and I wanted to see if it's something I would really enjoy and fly a lot then I would start with a piston move up into a Turbine. hopefully in the future battery technology will give us enough energy to power the main rotor and would make helicopters more affordable!

Congratulations on a brilliant discussion of a very complex subject. You did a very good job of making everything understandable. I would offer one small point for clarification: In your description of the turbine engine operations you stated that it was a “direct drive system.” Actually, in the free-turbine engine example used it is not a direct drive. The gas producer (N1) and power turbine (N2) in a free-turbine engine are pneumatically connected, not a direct drive system. In a fixed-turbine engine (such as the Turomeca used in the Alouette) the N1 and N2 are mechanically connected and require a clutch system similar to that of the piston engine helicopter. Thus, the difference between a free and fixed-turbine engine.

how much is the cost of maintenance/overhaul after 2000 hours? what about the blades for both tails and main plus the platings. how many hours running should these be inspected.

Cool.

The best breakfast in the morning I'd the smell of the turbine when starting. Of course the sound is thr best music

Do you have a video on auto rotation??

Great video, thanks for all the detail. Just wondering what you do to shut down a turbine. Is it as simple as cutting off the fuel? Thanks again.

Would be interested to hear a discussion on the use of diesel engines in helicopters.

Which one has shorter start-up to take-off time?

So is it cheaper to maintain a piston engine vs a turbine engine? If the piston engines are so reliable, how can you prevent the mags or cylinder heads from failing in flight? How often do you inspect a piston engine vs turbine engine? Are you familiar with the P&W engines? I am in the market deciding if I should buy a piston engine or turbine engine airplane. Need all the help comparing the two. I am looking at Lycoming IO 540. I am also comparing the P&W engines vs the Garrett engines TPE331.

Very gud stuff

Does your flight school and training count towards a private helicopter license in the United States?

Hi, I had been Flying the R44, for 20 Years for the tuna fishing industries. That is more than 13k hours. Let me tell you: NO ENGINE FAILURE AT ALL...YET.

Very informative....thank you. How a helicopter combustion engine is different from that of a car engine?