I used to OWN a copy of this movie on VHS. This is one of my favorite movies. Almost everything that I owned (including the vhs copy) was destroyed in a wild fire that destroyed many homes over a wide geographic region.
when I see Eric Roberts in a part I think he is always one moment away from cracking himself up...also I'm afraid he will do himself injury de live er ing his lines.
Congratulations on that! Much Respect! Bet you are an Irish guy, going by your name (back in the late 1600s-mid 1700s the Irish made some of the finest & deadliest fencing masters in all of Europe, as fierce & skilled with their swords as the Russian Cossacks were with their sabres). God Bless ☘️☘️☘️
@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284 Presumably, someone who has won The World Fencing Championships. The event is held annually at four different age levels: senior, cadet, junior, and veteran. Someone who has won The World Fencing Championships at any level could creditably say that they are a world champion fencer. One American male has one at the senior level - Miles Chamley-Watson with the foil.
The ending of the duel reminds me of a saying about swords - "The toughest lesson of swordsmanship is not drawing or using the sword, but knowing when to sheath or forgo the sword." Still, thank you for posting this sword fight from one of Eric Roberts' most under-appreciated films.
"The toughest lesson of swordsmanship is not drawing and using the weapon, but knowing when to sheath or forgo the sword." A bit of wisdom that transcends swordsmanship. I've been a martial arts practitioner for 17 years, and I've seen a lot of people not want to hear it when we say, "just give him your wallet; a couple hundred dollars and canceling your credit cards are not worth a hospital visit." Other organizations need to do this more as well. For example, as best I can tell the NRA teaches how to care for and use guns, but doesn't teach WHEN to use them, such as the laws dictating gun use, as well as how they won't protect you in all dangerous situations. For example, if your gun is in its holster on your hip or breast, and someone is robbing you at gun point, just give him your wallet, because you will need to draw it, point it, pull the trigger, and if you followed the law you'll also need to load the first round and turn off the safety, whereas the only thing the robber will have to do is pull the trigger. You won't out-quickdraw that.
One of Eric Robert’s finest performances! I’ve always wanted to him do a role with vastly more depth to it! Both antagonist and protagonist really show their stuff in this film!!
This scene has meant so much to me over the years...Important...A word used oft in the wrong ways, but sometimes in the rights...Growth...Frustration...Forgiveness...Art. Importance...Like Aldo Nadi learned the meaning of that word.
Not always. Sometimes the "good guy" shows mercy to someone the audience would really prefer to see dead. Batman does it all the time, so does Superman and most of the "good guys" in comics. Killing the bad guys makes you an antihero like The Punisher or Wolverine when he's not hanging out with the X-Men.
@@cargo71 I love HAPPY ENDINGS. Maybe "happy" is too strong a word but Alexander Villiard learned some humility and became a better person and Max Suba recognized that and showed him respect. Alex was kind of an A hole but there were no true villains in this story and that is part of what made it so good.
@@dirkbruere The battle was one of the heart, not of swords. The swords were but a metaphor for the turmoil within and the need to be redeemed. However if you are talking about the DC characters their inability to permanently end villains is both a character flaw and strength of character. Fighting the villains is allegory for the difficulties within the heroes, battles that must be fought but can never be truly won. A reflection of life, how we fight our own little internal battles that we cannot win and must fight each and every day, like trying to remain sober, gambling addiction or cancer. You may defeat it today but you will have to fight it again tomorrow or the next day. So too the DC heroes will prevail today knowing that they will have to face that same villain down the line. Maybe too deep as most people just see the simplistic violence and good vs evil when there is so much more beneath the superficial surface.
The character Eric Roberts plays has so many sides, and is so conflicted and able, that he is a compelling anti-hero. Murray Abraham plays a more straightforward character, but with such artistry. One of the best films ever, about the human condition, and about how in the modern world we feel adrift and need to find some sort of framework to give our lives meaning and content.
Apparently Tyrone Power and Basil Rathbone were two of the best fencers in their day. The Mark of Zorro saw them at their best.Scaramouche also had some great fencing duels.The one at the end of that film is a classic.
Don't know who basil Rathbone is but I do have a Tyrone Powers Zorro movie and I agree with you on his sword skills compared his Zorro movie with Antonio Banderas Zorro movie. Tyrones sword skills are more faster than Antonio's
@@joelmauri9478 Basil was sir guy in errol flynns robin hood and zorros enemy in the tyrone power version of that story,basil is best known for his sherlock holmes films.
This is an excellent film and highly underrated. This is well worth a watch. F Murray Abraham and Eric Roberts are well cast and act their respective parts well.
Good choreogrphy of the fencing scenes. Decent plot. What is not to like? Takes me back a few decades to when I used to fence. Was lucky and had world class Olympic instructors. I wish my knees still worked so I could fence again.
F Murray Abraham and Eric Roberts, what fine adversaries they make in this movie. This is such an underrated film, it is worth watching simply for these two outstanding actors alone.
I can't believe I never heard of this movie. I've seen the Best of the Best movies so many times back when, but never saw this one or even knew it existed. Guy's got guts going after Mongul like that.
Love how everyone is just standing around watching two guys legit trying to kill each other with swords. Not one person's like "Maybe we outta step in before somebody gets killed, yeah?" Everyone else is like "Nah fuckit, let em fight!"
Eric Roberts has a rapier (with is thicker, with either an oval or diamond shape cross-section), F. Murray Abraham is using a standard Epee fencing blade (triangular cross-section on the Forte) with (giggle and eye roll!) The electric-machanical barrel tip removed. Epee has no sharp edges or tip, unless the fobile were to break off near the tip end, which is what causes tbe fencers death in the movie, Ring of Steel.
Nope, that's not a rapier. Roberts is holding a film version of a duelling epee. A real rapier is much longer and much wider. It would've been a very unfair fight of it was an actual rapier, as Roberts would have almost a foot of reach advantage.
I always thought this was one of the most underrated martial arts fight scenes (Fencing *is* by every definition, a Martial Art). The choreography is okay, and nothing spectacular (and in one or two sequences the strikes don't work to camera, and you can see the gaps the actors use for safety). But it's a great example of what a fight scene *should* be: dialogue with action. Essentially two people having an intense conversation, and coming to a resolution. And I always loved how this film took the cliche "You Killed My Father" trope and flipped it on its head. Instead of seeking revenge, the son of the slain father wants to *become* his father's killer. (Plus Mia Sara looks cute in a fencer's suit)
I fenced for years and the are two key things tied to your Mia Sara statement. 1. Female fenders develop fantastic legs and asses from the posture and footwork. 2. Fencing knickers are cut perfectly to accentuate those well developed features on women, particularly when the jacket is off.
I can't belvieve I just found this! I never forgot this film but couldn't remember much more than this ending! I saw it ONCE and was NOT looking for it! Finally RU-vid did me favor!
@@hawkinatorgamer9725 yeh i would wonder what kind of wierd arse classes are taught there...lol seeing two guys going at each other with no masks or jackets and sharp swords.... well even an epee with a tip against a guy in a shirt would cause damage... with no tip... ouchy
@@albertbresca8904 Yes, big time ouchy. I am ignorant when it comes to the knowledges of sword fighting, (left my self wide open to gay jokes *no offense to anyone who may be gay meant*) but you are right, that would have been a hell of a class to walk into.
Of course you could sharpen that tip under the barrel and exactly such weapons were used for duels into the early 20th century such as the one Aldo Nadi fought. i.redditmedia.com/PLhZSoa5JHO7fX68PyVPtAmye7OTRG_bpl2RP3M0HKk.jpg?s=302b670629d5d4747a4e3394e7cd5536
I have purchased 2 DVDs of this movie to find the best quality over the years. There are really few sword movies outside of fantasy swashbucklers. This is one of the best. The Spanish The Fencer is another under appreciated film. A wonderful early Eric Roberts movie is The Coca Cola Kid.
It didn't occur to me until this very moment, but this film's characters and structure were basically stolen by Sean Penn when he wrote The Crossing Guard ~4 years later. Shocking that I didn't see it before.
I love this movie. I realize that its choreography is not realistic; I don’t care. It’s got its issues, but it’s a fun, engaging film and F. Murray Abrahams is wonderful to watch. And, as much as I can’t stand watching Eric Roberts, he is in two of my “guilty pleasure” movies (this one and “The Coca-Cola Kid”).
The man that could not win did not loose🤔that what happens when you go up against the best of the best! Great video I practice the spinning back shoulder slam on my punching bag
Technical point. Removing the tip from an epee is not going to make it into a killing weapon. I wouldn't want to be stabbed by one of course. If the blade was stiffer, it might kill. But the blade is meant to bend on impact, not to stay straight and pierce flesh. In fact if you watch epee fencing in slow motion, you can see the blades bending just as the fencers whip them around, without even touching each others' blade.
Neither one, one was a murderer who served his time and sought redemption, the other an obsessed man who learned how to forgive the man who murdered his father.
Isaac Waite I would say Eric Robert's character, since he is a pretentious ass, who runs the Salle (In the film, it is supposed to be the fencing section of the NYC athletics club.)
As interesting as all this is, as well as I appreciate a sports film that focuses on those sports that are almost never seen in film (like fencing,) I still feel compelled to point out a few things wrong with all this. First off: those aren't rapiers, they're fencing foils. While rapiers ARE really thin swords, they're still swords: they are flattened on one of their dimensions and have an edge running down them. Those only have a point on them. Second, this is a COMPETITIVE fencing school, which is completely different than the historical fencing that European aristocrats used in gentlemen duels. In competitive fencing, the goal is to stab your opponent before they stab you. In a real fight, it doesn't matter if you stabbed them a tenth of a second faster, you'll still be stabbed as well. To this end, historical fencing was slower so they could defend against counter attacks. Also, competitive fencing is done in a line. They wouldn't necessarily have learned how to do those skills we see in this fight in a normal competitive fencing school. If this were a HEMA school (Historical European Martial Arts,) then yes, they would have learned that, but likely not the competitive fighting methods.
Well, those are the MA movies for you; martial artists usually love them for what they get right, and do their level best to overlook what they get wrong. Stands to reason that a movie about fencing would be like that.
Suba was A LOT better than Villiard. I was HOLDING BACK and making sure NOT to kill or too badly maim the younger man but the younger man was not holding back AT ALL. I think overall ability would scale like this: Alexander Villaird's father, before his death>prime Max Suba>middle aged Max Suba> Alexander Villiard in this scene. If you extrapolate back in time in this story Alex Villiard is only a SECOND RATE fencer if compared to prime versions of his own father and Max Suba. Because his own father was totally superior its possible that first rate is Alex's father, 2nd rate is prime Max Suba and 3rd rate is both Alex Villiard and middle aged Max Suba.
He was never shown in this only described but based on the description and the fact that he totally outmatched a prime aged Max Suba I think that Alex Villiard would have always lost to his father had his father lived. His father was so off the charts skilled that if you use Alex's father as the place to set the bar he would be "first rate" and both Max Suba and Alex Villiard would only be 2nd rate fencers. Alex's father in this fictional universe would be like the "Yoda" of fencing.
I thought this ending "duel" was very disapointing. In the end it was two people wailing away, with two hands on the hilt. When the chips were down, they were brawling. Meaning there was no skill in the win. Hardly the best ending to a film about fencing.
So who's the good guy here? Dude murdered the guy's dad then shows up at his school and humiliates him in front of his students before the movie just stops.
Whatever it is these guys are doing it sure isn't fencing , it's amature Hacking of the most horrific kind. There is a big difference between sword play and fencing.There is no slashing away incoherently in fencing ,it is an artful sport where the goal is to stick your opponent in the heart not run around swashbuckling away like a rogue pirate.
If I understood it correctly one had a rapier, the other an even, both of which are primarily point weapons. However, they were both slashing away as if they had sabres.
