Can Copper replace ZINC in Engine Oils?

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Exploring Alternatives to ZDDP: Can Copper-Based Additives Replace Traditional Engine Oil?
The video explores the popularity of zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP), a well-known and cost-effective anti-wear additive used in hydraulic and engine oils. Despite its effectiveness, its environmental footprint and catalyst-poisoning qualities require a credible alternative. The video introduces a potential copper-based replacement and explains the newly discovered wear mechanism, hydrogen wear, that the alternative counters. A company called Neol has developed an organic copper salt-based anti-wear additive that they claim can make a diesel engine oil that contains no sulfur, phosphorus, ash, or total base number (TBN). The video expresses some skepticism but plans to test the technology in a controlled environment, moving from a small motorbike engine to a large-scale truck engine. If successful, this technology could revolutionize engine oil formulation.
00:00 Introduction to ZDDP and Its Popularity
00:27 The Downsides of ZDDP and the Search for Alternatives
01:25 Exploring Copper-Based Alternatives
03:39 The Science Behind Hydrogen Wear
06:35 The Role of Copper in Anti-Wear Technology
08:13 The Real-World Application and Testing of the Technology
09:01 The Future of Engine Oil: A No SAPS Formulation

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5 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 38

@zzzingrol 5 месяцев назад

As a mechanical engineer, I love the content. For me, lubricants have always been a dark art until I found your channel.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Glad to spread the word!!

@Gorgundy 5 месяцев назад

You have my attention. This is a time for the next technology to make waves.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Hoping it works! Will have an update on the first test in a couple of weeks.

@dingding8636 5 месяцев назад

Could you make a video on motorcycle oil and how they have to work as transmission, engine and clutch fluid all at once?

@danielseguraroman6264 5 месяцев назад

Good explained. It’s remember me The aditive Resurs.

@joshuaramcharan9735 5 месяцев назад

This is an incredible concept. I am interested in how you are going about the experiments. It sounds like a fantastic final year project

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Fingers crossed!

@ProtonPlummer 5 месяцев назад

This is super interesting. I share your sentiment about having skepticism. I can see how this mechanism could be used as a replacement for the anti wear properties of ZDDP. But I don’t know how this helps with all the other acidic byproducts of combustion and contamination that the lubricant has to control. Maybe this could be used in conjunction with other additives?

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Here's something to throw out there (I'm not sure if this works) - we care about TAN because acids would could copper corrosion in engine bearings. But if the additive is a copper salt/acid, maybe it would slow down the rate? But you're right, it will need to be used in conjunction with other additives. Copper additives have been known for a long time, but the key thing Neol seem to have hit on is a way to formulate correctly with them.

@murmenaattori6 5 месяцев назад

I believe the USSR and russia afterwards has seen more usage of copper based oil additives. There is some good evidence of their effectiveness here on RU-vid, but mostly in russian. Resurs and Cupper were the brands if I recall. I think Restore is a comparable product available in the US, though that may have been copper silver and lead. If I recall, the soviet products used some compound with copper. The color was like a dark green or dark blue. Copper acetate or some nitrate, I can't remember.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

I’ve heard of Cupper, but never Resurs. I’ll need to take a closer look at Restore

@oneninerniner3427 5 месяцев назад

I have used Engine Restore in the past, not much recently however, but it does seem to help badly worn engines. As a straight out extreme pressure additive I'm not sure. But a very interesting topic copper is. @@LubricationExplained

@murmenaattori6 4 месяца назад

@@LubricationExplained Forgive me, I made a mistake. Resurs has nothing to do with copper, and is instead a ceramic coating that applies to local high temperature areas of friction. Same principle as the product ''RVS''.

@neon_Nomad 5 месяцев назад

The steampunk future we all hoped for

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Hahaha! We can only hope.

@gregorymalchuk272 5 месяцев назад

So what copper compound specifically are we talking about? Copper oleate? Copper napthenate? CuDDP? If we're going to metallic soaps as antiwear additives, why not go back go "lead-fat", lead soap that was used as an anti-wear compound from before ZDDP got popular.

@MotaaBhai 5 месяцев назад

Great content 🙏🏻

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Thank you 🙌

@MotaaBhai 5 месяцев назад

@@LubricationExplained and making the most of AI for thumbnails 😁

@hypercasual 5 месяцев назад

I don't think I understood the link between the use of copper salts and the no SAPS? Is it simply due to the reactivity?

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

SAPS is usually generated by detergent and anti wear style molecules. This formulation does away with all of those molecules, so there’s no sulphated ash generated in the oil.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

@@MotaaBhai sure am! Hahahaha

@Chiefgeargrinder 5 месяцев назад

I still use ZDDP additive in my oil. I have a G.M 6.0 with AFM and I don't want the lifters chewing the camshaft metal Shavings issues. Tons of forums with motor issues about AFM systems. I've owned the vehicle 6 years now without a problem. If I ever need to replace catalytic coverters that's far cheaper in the long run.

@AlexanderIII_true 5 месяцев назад

Hello! I have been using oils with copper-based anti-wear packages since 2016 on all equipment with an internal combustion engine. During this time I got excellent results. The 2-stroke motorcycle engine exceeded its service life twice as much. The magnetic plug, unlike oils with ZDDP, does not have metal elements on the surface.

@gregorymalchuk272 5 месяцев назад

@@AlexanderIII_true What product is it? And do you happen to know the specific name of the copper compound in the product?

@AlexanderIII_true 5 месяцев назад

@@gregorymalchuk272 Hi, this is the Russian manufacturer Cupper, when their developments were present in addinol oils with the product name metalplaks. At the beginning of the company's formation, I collaborated a lot with developers when testing products. The only thing I know is that this compound is called copper oleate. The compound itself is rather inefficient, since the additive is based on a redox reaction, which ensures the replacement of damaged metal on the rubbing surface. therefore, there are many different other ingredients in the composition. I have photos of how copper forms only on surfaces subject to wear.

@iceman2k103 5 месяцев назад

Ok, I say this in a somewhat satirical way. But I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring attention to the oil company’s discovery. Seeing that particular formulation improves the lubricating properties. Then they follow it with, “DISCONTINUE IT NOW!”

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

So the good thing about this - they’re a startup and not an existing oil company. If it was one of the majors I could see the tech being buried but these guys have a pretty strong incentive to get the technology to market.

@iceman2k103 5 месяцев назад

@@LubricationExplained I was more referring to Mobil. And the fact that they ran across this extra nice lubricating molecule. And then that oil formulation is dropped. As for the startup, I think new minds and methods are always needed, especially when you have gargantuan companies that rule a market. The large companies have a type of inertia. It’s good when an upstart comes in, and shakes things up.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

@@iceman2k103 oh cool! Yeah that makes more sense. From what I understand Paramins (the additive company that made it) found it super useful but too expensive to make. There's a tonne of tech like it out there - like Tungsten fullerenes. Very effective, very expensive. And then there's graphene. Seems like its very effective, but there's been some studies conducted that have found the vast majority of graphene currently being sold is actually just graphite.

@9ZERO6 5 месяцев назад

I need zedeedeepee dangit.

@LubricationExplained 5 месяцев назад

Hahaha! Would you prefer zEEdeedeepee?

@9ZERO6 5 месяцев назад

@@LubricationExplained No! Your way of pronouncing it is much much cooler.

@blazingverde 5 месяцев назад

Wait, copper salts!? So was it a bad idea to put 6 grams of 1um solid near spherical copper powder in my (3.7 liter) crankcase?

@AlexanderIII_true 5 месяцев назад

no, it contains copper oleate and various excipients.

@blazingverde 5 месяцев назад

@AlexanderIII_true that's very interesting. I wish we would have had more USSR science that didn't have a profit motive attached. Too many corporations buy up what could be revolutionary patents just to store them away forever to protect their own profits.