the way i wish they implemented ledges is for walljumping out of pratfall to still work but have it use up your ledge grab, meaning you only get either a ledgegrab or a walljump out of pratfall, but not both. This way, beginner players can just jump to the ledge every time without worrying about the walljump mechanics until they're ready ot learn them, and more experienced players have even more options to work with in the offstage game. This could even make for more diverse stage designs, as some stages could have a walljumpable wall and others not
I feel like they said in the Q&A that they were looked at this and discarded it (at least at this early stage) because there wasnt a good way to convey to the player that walljumping eats your ledge grab. Its a weird thing to try to communicate.
It might just be me, but when they mean “you’ll lose your momentum when you double jump”, I think they mean “your current aerial momentum won’t effect your double jump”. Smash ultimate is a good example of this, if you jump forward and then double jump with no direction, you just jump straight up with no previous momentum from your first jump effecting it. That means if you jump forward and double jump while fully holding back, you’ll double jump back with max aerial movement without your first jump effecting it. That way you have full control of where your double jump will go while also making it easier. I’d imagine it would still be effective by the momentum of knockback, but that’s what I gathered from when they said that. I tried double jumping in rivals thinking it’d work the same from ultimate and it threw me off since it’s dependent on your current momentum in rivals unlike ultimate. That could just be me, like I could be wrong. Personally I prefer the way ultimate does it, but that’s because I cane from ultimate and I’m shifting towards rivals.
I think... this is right. Although, I'd be surprised if they did a full implementation of this for all characters - this would legit turn Maypul into a monster. (in base game it's difficult to adjust her aerial trajectory, presumably to balance out her insane ground speed)
@@Just_Athos I'd imagine not all characters would be like that, like maypul would be a monster and potentially elianna would feel off if she had it. and who knows, i could be wrong too. maybe they''ll implement it but more subtly.
I would love to hear your thoughts on sylvanos’ recovery. I just got rocked by a good Ranno player who would carry me offstage, and just flowchart my recovery to death. I either recover high and try and go for a ledge cancel, quickly wall jump and waveland onstage, or burrow quickly to give them as little time as possible, and they react to where I emerge from the ground regardless. Of course I try to stall occasionally with back air and wall jump, but it often just feels like delaying the inevitable. I hear people say “oh sylvanos recovery is great” and “oh sylvanos recovery is abysmal” and there are times where I feel like both apply at once. I’m super curious of your thoughts
Honestly the two should be compared, but in a different light. It shouldn’t be about one outdoing another, it should be about how the two can have their distinct feel. Having a rivals(y) approach to their game is the goal. I personally don’t think the approach with ledges and whatnot is a bad thing but it is on the slope of becoming more of a “smash clone” by adding mechanics not existent in the original rivals that are found in smash games.
Very fair response. I make the comparison the way I do because the way Dan is talking about the game, he wants to take the mechanics of Smash, and do them in a better way without some of the drawbacks we've seen for competitive play.
I feel like you may be exaggerating how homogenized combos will become with the removal of drift DI, normal DI still plays a huge part in forcing you to react and change your combos. A game like melee has no drift DI but still has vast branching combo trees. Obviously Rivals has hitfalling as well as different movement speeds/wavedash lengths than melee, so it will be different, but I'm sure Dan and Trevor will make sure combos are still as varied and interesting in Rivals 2.
Yeah again it's hard to really say just how different combo trees will be until I can actually play it myself. The fear is that we lose the kind of freestyle combos that Rivals 1 has, but then again games like melee have no drift DI and are still sick as hell so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What you said about parries and parry baiting at a high level makes me glad to be just a little above low level. I can parry stuff but I'm not at the point where parry is overcentralizing my or my opponent's playstyle.
I'm glad to see you going through each point with a level head. I've seen so many kneejerk reactions, and while I understand people's worries, I think there's so much potential in Rivals 2. As a primary PM player and a spectator of melee for many years, I've been waiting for a game with Melee's depth and Rival's accessibility + creativity. I love PM to death, but I definitely think it falls short in many ways, and I believe the RoA team can develop Rivals 2 into an amazing blend of the best platform fighters.
Everything in this video is so well put. The "Dan's Mission" section is like a perfect 2 minute clip that describes what my entire friend group is looking for. We want Melee/PM but don't want to spend 200 hours just to nail down movement and L canceling. We're tired of Nintendo Devs that don't care about competitive play and rollback online. Rivals 1 feels so close but I can't get more than half of my friends to get into it because of the lack of the staple FGC triangle of Attack/Grab/Shield and pixel art.
Really glad to hear that was on the mark. I think the case with your friends is VERY common, and Rivals 2 is gonna knock it out of the park for them :D
I gotta say I like this thumbnail style, very clean yet effective. There's not much there but Ranno grabbing ledge with a simple edit is great for grabbing attention given the hotly debated topic.
to be honest I think every Rivals player who doesn't like the changes in rivals two keep playing Rivals 1 I doubt that Dan will stop supporting rivals one if people still want to play it is probably a reason he gave it so many differences now there can be 2 different roa games both as competitive esports
I really do not like this weird pummel system they have going. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it feels like some 5050s that don’t really feel very depth full. I feel like a top level player, they are going to just normal throw 99% of the time
I'd be very interested in a video about rivals players (what you say around 10:20), I've only recently switched from Ultimate to Rivals and, although I enjoy it so much more, I feel like camping/zoning is so much stronger in Rivals. I hated it in Ultimate but, as a beginner in RoA, I feel like I sometimes just can't do anything if my opponent just knows better how to move. I mean I know that it's a skill issue, I'm still very new to this, I just mean it _feels_ very strong from my perspective. Once the opponent switches to a campy style, I'll probably start losing :D
Lots of cool insight from this video. I just started playing RoA in February and already I like it better than the Smash franchise (tbf I was never a big fan of platform fighters vs. traditional Street Fighter esque games). And although I think RoA is excellent in the way it feels including its decision to go light on defense, I think all the new controversial systems they're adding will balance that aspect out pretty well. Like many others, I was initially concerned with how ledges will break the flow of off-stage fights, but if it acts as a "gasp of air" against seemingly brutal and bully-ish edge guarding then that can be potentially be a really good OPTION for defensive (and even counter) mixups - which is what off-stage fighting is to me to begin with - and NOT an always get-out of-jail-free card.
1. Ultimately people wouldn’t care about these sorts of changes if it being a sequel didn’t inherently imply replacement, Champions of Aether was an okay name, but if it was called that, no one would be upset that it was more like Smash since it’s not the replacement to Rivals 1. 2. Addition of Ledges is cool on paper but axing old edgegame sucks because it made Rivals 1 unique, and I think it would be cooler to see a fusion of the two systems for more options. 3. Can understand the hate for trumping by the devs in preference to ledgehogging, I think theoretically both could work alongside each other if hogging was tied to ledge invincibility, you couldn’t trump from onstage, and it was made clear when you could or couldn’t grab ledge. 4. Whifflag arguably is just one of the smartest gameplay decisions Rivals 1 made and to see it removed makes some sense considering the way this game will play, but it easily could’ve remained alongside current systems, which would require less moveset and knockback reworking, and no one would be upset about it. 5. As much as the move to 3D is smart for a plethora of reasons, the entire Aether brand is built upon beautiful pixel and illustrative art and the transition to 3D graphics is going to be bumpy. This game looks leagues better than Brawlout but I think it could be dismissed by casual audiences for similar reasons because of Smash’s polish being so unreasonably high for indies to match up to, and stylistically this game not looking particularly striking. 6. I come from Ultimate and love Rivals for what it is, but that Zetter combo straight up looks like something that Joker, Fox, Wolf, Pika, or Mii Brawler would do in Ult. Grabs or not, ledges will inherently force people to stop and play a different game to either send their opponent offstage or let them get back onstage, while Rivals 1 is more cohesive throughout. 7. I fear this game won’t do a good job of attracting casuals because its teaching tools won’t help players and they’ll continue to get bodied like they do now. Rivals 1 players have already shown a split as to how they feel about the mechanical reductions of the game, and while they’ll definitely play it, I don’t know if it will have staying power. High to top level players of other games are already good at those games, are they going to have reason to switch to Rivals 2? I don’t know what audience this game will truly capture in the long run. I really like Rivals, I think this game looks fun in its own right, but it feels more like a reinterpretation of what Rivals 1 wanted to do than a sequel to the game people already love, and I think there are a plethora of ways that it could leave players on all sides unsatisfied in one way or another. I want to, but I’m really not seeing the potential of this game over games like PM or Rivals 1, hell I think Fraymakers will beat this game to a pulp on nearly every front. Hoping for the best.
i think even if they add ledges, i am in favor of them adding the wall jump thing. What i like about rivals over smash out of stage is that u have so many more options. Smash sometimes feels like if u get thrown far enough, u gonna use everything u have to just barely reach the ledge. Your options become too obvious and therefore too limited.
@@loganmadface5425 Smash 4 to counter your point. You could just shield grab someone for approaching you or do an oos option. If you ever played smash 4 you would know just having grabs doesn't make shields easily countered and even with movement like wavedash you could just hold shield all day because shields that are good are always this strong with a platform fighter. Even if there was no oos option you would never shield then so they won't do that and spotdodging will most likely exist which could also counter grabs.
@@BioBirb Well if there is too much shield stun then the game will suffer as well. So i guess i will wait and see a bit more but so far it just looks like smash to me and why would i play smash but with different characters when i can just play smash already? If there is a lot of shieldstun then the game will be like smash 64 in that no one will want to shield in fear of getting their shield broken in one combo. Shields aren't easy to do and have never been done well in a platfighter imo.
Nah you're way oversimplifying it, it's rarely simple as that. But we are also working off little info so making such an assumption to either side is just...no. Simply wait.
