Can Tesla’s Cybertruck Finally Solve Towing? Not Yet... 

Who else cracks up every time Jason draws the Cybertruck as a generic triangle, meanwhile all the other cars are pretty well drawn side views of an actual car. Great video as always.

Fascinating. I didn't realize that having a super aerodynamic truck might actually work against the towing efficiency when a trailer is involved. But it makes sense!

AAAH I was not prepared for the animated whiteboard!

The trick to towing efficiency is getting the trailer lower than the roof of the truck. Look at 18 wheelers, the trailer fits right up against the cab to make one big shape, and trucking is efficiency oriented.

You'd think that instead of a "range extender battery" it would be easier to develop an aero package to be mounted on the bed. to improve towing efficiency. You can then have a more efficient regular truck and a more efficient towing truck at the same time.

Year after year I never get enough of your explanations. The only RU-vid channel that has technical data to prove their point without biased opinions.

9:44 Out of spec did 70mph range test on the Silverado EV, down to when it wouldn't move anymore: 434 miles.

Recently towed 500 miles with an R1T. It got about 1.4 mi/kWh with a 5500# trailer that had a very small cross sectional area. Can confirm the lack of pull thru chargers and that really you need that 200-250 mile range (total) when towing so you can go faster than 60mph and spend less time at chargers rolling off to a high SOC.

Please do a video on Edison motors, diesel, hybrid, semi‘s and pick ups

Trailer Aerodynamics - should be mentioned. Years back, I built an aerodynamic 8ft trailer for towing behind my G1 Honda Insight. I took it on a 1500 mile road trip. Averaging 60mph, my fuel economy over the entire trip was 57mpg. For reference, just opening the back hatch of the car wide open, with no trailer, no passengers and no payload, dropped the car to around 45mpg. A trailer that pays any attention at all to aerodynamics will dramatically increase EV towing range.

Towing solution: integrated battery in trailer.

So the problem isn't being solved, it's being buried under tons of batteries. "We have a 600 mile towing range!" "What's the curb weight of the truck?" "17,327lbs..." I'm actually curious why Tesla or someone hasn't made a more aerodynamic trailer. It's been patently obvious since EVs came out that aero was important. Seems like not a huge task to make one with a teardrop profile.

The degree to which trailer aero and vehicle-trailer aero compatibility have been ignored is INSANE. This should have been worked out with the first gas crisis in the 1970s!

It’s important to note that every increase in battery size pushes out the mileage for carbon crossover. In other words, the carbon cost of the battery is significant, and heavier EV’s are less efficient, so it will take more miles before the carbon footprint of a heavy big battery EV is lower than that of a conventional vehicle (since it generally starts out worse). Another commenter mentioned hybrid as a good compromise, and I think right now there is a very good argument to be made for plug in hybrids for their lower overall carbon system cost.

I've towed a couple thousand miles in my model 3 SR+. I realized aerodynamics was way more important than weight. With an empty trailer (w/ back ramp grate) I got 700 wh/mile, full of boxes and a couch I got 550 wh/mile. I've replicated this many times and the key was keeping that airstream above the trailer before hitting that back grate. When I remove the mesh/grate back ramp w/ an empty trailer I get 400-550 wh/mile depending on weather/temp/speed/etc

My f150 has the large tank at about 130L. Empty and truck only I can easily get over 1000km hiway. If I tow a 20ft 4000lb camper I can go 500km. Every test I've done range is almost exaclty half.

"hey guys, we fixed this problem with out new tesla trailer, it has extra batteries on it when you need to tow longer distances... now only 89999.99$"

So maybe a variable body shape? Like a cab-top spoiler which can be deployed for a towing mode to optimize aerodynamics while towing and stowed for better mileage without the trailer?

OMG, the "old movie" effect on your old video totally cracked me up 🤣👍

Fairings were introduced on semi tractors in the 70s to reduce drag from the front of the trailer. I remember pondering why didn't anyone think of this "duh solution" before. That started my life journey to visualize problems and work out solutions without applying math or going through design iterations.

There are also ways to improve the drag of the trailer. Some trailers taper toward the hitch, which is much better than a plain box shape. Another option is to attack the drag on the upper half, with the roof sloped to the front of the trailer. Alternatively, extend the front of the trailer (similar to some fifth wheel trailers) with a similar slope. Though the best option is to match the vehicle to the trailer...like the Tesla Semi. Hopefully we will see the necessary charging infrastructure to support this in the near future.

The editing in this video was on point with the whiteboard graphics appearing behind you!

A while back I happened upon someone who had done cfd on various types of trailers, they found that a boat has fairly low form drag as trailers go, but the hull creates a lot of induced drag

Plugin hybrids make THE MOST sense on a truck. Lots of space and there is a need for long range! Slap a 3 cylinder 1l engine in it and you’ve just doubled the towing range.

Please do a similar comparison with gas/diesel towing so we can see side-by-side. All I hear is negativity about EV towing but I'm sure gas/diesel gets a huge range cut too.

I think Ram might have the right idea for occasional towing by having a gasoline range extender in their electric trucks. Runs as an electric only truck most of the time, but then uses the gas engine to extend the range when towing. Way more cost effective than massive heavy battery packs that aren’t needed 95% of the time.

This is why we need serial hybrid trucks. Unlimited range with an all electric drivetrain and an optimized single-speed range extender. A much smaller, cheaper battery, with easy fast fill-ups WITHOUT disconnecting the trailer.

This brings of the issue of trailer aerodynamics, which I hope you'll address in a future video. Recently, we took a three month tour of the U.S. pulling a teardrop trailer behind out Mazda CX5 (2.5 liter 4-cylinder). With a very strong tailwind in New Mexico, at 65 mph, I got over 30 miles per gallon. Driving through South Dakota into a headwind, I got 18 mpg. My average for the trip was about 21.5 mpg. I doubt that the teardrop shape is as aerodynamic as most people think. But it's probably better than most travel trailers that are shaped like a brick, and have external air conditioners, awnings, and other flow disrupters.

Speaking of the range of the Silverado, Out of Spec did a 100%-to-dead test in ~65F weather, and got a very impressive 434 miles on a 70mph highway loop test that they've used for dozens of other EV range tests. That 514 miles that Jason estimated seems very optimistic, though, given OOS's result. He didn't mention what speed the TFTruck test was done at, tho.

I didn't even think of this pull-through charging problem, that's a great point!

As a child we would tow our boat from Omaha to Ogallala 330+ miles. That would require one charge stop and full charges at each end. It's impressive that the Chevy can support 300kW charging but there are many videos that show when you are sharing the network you really get 50. You can triple those charging time (or more if the site is full, which they often are now). There's still a long way to go before the consumer experience is where it should be.

5m of vid, not towing, not an ev owner, but already like the beauty of your explanations

I’m wondering how this translates to the non-North American market. In Europe, for instance, craftsmen typically use vans instead of pick-up trucks and we use our normal cars for towing all kinds of stuff. I can see the vans getting larger batteries, but not our regular Volkswagen Golf (which in Europe is rated to tow up to 3500 lbs) and similar sized cars.

What I understand from this video is that having a bed for towing is inefficient because the wind goes down hitting the trailer. So, the future of EV towing will be done by Vans?

The point you made but didn't follow up with is the drag of the trailer. A 6,500lb trailer that is all flat steel, out of the wind would get much more range than towing a 12' tall cube van of the same weight. Rather than larger batteries, maybe trucks need a "drop in" power generator to make it a temporary hybrid. I've seen a couple of interesting hybrids. One is a DIY Tesla that had a small diesel dropped in the back. It is still a work in progress. The other is the Edison hybrid truck designed for BC log hauling. They are in the process of getting it licensed for the road. It uses a relatively small engine (you can actually drop any motor in) to charge the batteries. All drive power is electric. Since you have an optimized generator on board the batteries can be smaller, say than a Tesla transport truck. It is designed with the known constraint/fact that it will be travelling empty up hill, then using regenerative braking when heading down hill with a heavy load. There is some loaded travel on flat land. Edison is also working with another shop to develop a "kit" to convert ICE pickup trucks to hybrid electric.

Pulling a 3000 lb trailer with my V6 Jeep Liberty at 65 mph I can get about 11 mpg. I have seen up to 14 mpg towing that trailer while following a semi truck. The best gains are from semi trailers with no aerodynamic tail flaps, but with side skirts and rear bumper areas under the box that block airflow coming from under the truck. That 3 mpg is a 27% gain in efficiency for me on long trips. I am not driving closer than 2 or 3 seconds behind the truck so am not drafting them unsafely and still have time to react. My Scangauge II gives me real time feedback so I can find the sweet spot with the least turbulence. Anyhow, any of those rigs in the video could probably get 20-25% more range by informally joining a semi truck convoy on the interstate and learning how to drive more efficiently in groups. As for me, doing that translates into 50 more miles per tank while towing on long highway trips, which really helps the vacation budget. Interestingly, it is only about a 10% gain in mpg while not towing!

My 2003 Volvo v70 has a range of ~700km (450 miles) with its 70 liter (~18 gallons) tank, while towing a 2 ton(~4200pound) horse trailer. And that is, beside the price ofc, the main reason that i won't get an electric yet. Right now its a 5-6 hours to go the longest "normal" trip with the horses, with an electric car it would take ~9 hours since i'd have to wait for the car to recharge twice to get there. For smaller trips electric is great though and im hoping for cheaper, denser batteries in the future.

It would make for a rather expensive trailer, but from an efficiency point of view, wouldn't it make sense to put an extra battery on the trailer? At least that way, you're not dragging around giant battery unless you need it. Or tow a generator. You lose the benefits of pure electricity, but you only need it when towing long distance.

I think that the new Ramcharger promises to deliver great towing range and an easy recharging/refueling option. Basically, it’s a range extended EV or plug-in serial hybrid with massive battery-take your pick of preferred description. Can’t wait to see how it performs in towing tests

My favorite part about consumer EV Truck towing is that in America it’s pretty much a non-issue. Within a rounding error of “nobody” actually tows a significant amount with their trucks. It’s a specialized use-case that needs a different vehicle solution. The real problem is that everyone **thinks** they’re gonna need to tow, so it’s a big selling point but that’s literally all it is: marketing.

One option is just slow down. 2x the distance at 50 vs 80 is pretty dramatic. Probably shouldn't be north of 60 towing something substantial anyway.

We’ll see how the Ram REV performs. Reliability and complexity will (at least initially) be a concern but the premise sounds promising.

We NEED a video made by YOU about RAKE !!!! And not only about AERO but how it affects weight transfer, rotation and Dynamic and static weight distribution PLEASEEEEEEE

I love this channel. As someone from a non-engineering background, you make these topics not only interesting but easy to understand. The whiteboard is also amazing. If I had teachers like you throughout school maybe I would have become an engineer.

2/3 less range with a 6,500 lb trailer. Wow !!! It would have been interesting to know about the percentage of range loss with a gas or diesel pick-up in the same conditions.

"4 years ago, I explained why I din't think it would be succesful .. But today, I received a check to say otherwise.." Kidding. I love your videos and you are a great teacher and I have learned so much form you. Just couldn't miss the importunity for a joke. :)

Thanks for the video. You do a good job at lots of data in a short video. Thanks again

ICE range extenders would be so much more efficient at solving the range problem. The Silverado probably carries 1000lbs more battery that what most people need 95% of the time and even that is just adequate. A 40kW generator set could be installed in the trailer or truck bed when needed and save a lot of wear and wasted energy hauling around unneeded batteries.

How about the cheap option: create a shroud that can be fitted on the back of the vehicle fill that gap in an aerodynamic way.

Despite the issues (and you might want to look at HGV / Trailer fairings used to streamline trucks in Europe) I still gave this video a thumbs up. 👍

An obvious fix for the CyberTruck would be to change the side profile to more of a wedge shape by placing a large, appropriately shaped fairing in the truck bed. That fairing could be collapsible or deflatable for easy configuration change.

Energy density is the issue, hybrid is the best solution that’s why trains have been that way for longer then any of us have been alive. Problem on the road is weight but progress has been made on that making it a more viable option. Airflow is neat, for class 8 all the manufacturers say to keep the trailer within 36” to keep the drag low.

Drag is one thing, but the biggest reason is motor load and slip. When a motor slips under load the rotor bar gets further away from the pole. The formula for magnetic flux in a motor is divided by the distance away. When electric motors are at a certain load thresh hold the efficiency falls off of a cliff.

For extreme temperature and especially long range towing a small efficient integrated fuel burning range extender would be amazing, at least considering current technology, Though the battery and drive unit in the trailer seems interesting as prices come down.

I think one thing that was glossed over was the first comparison between trucks hauling the same 6500lb. trailer. The Hummer is a much larger and heavier vehicle, so the trailer would be a smaller percentage of the total (truck+trailer). It would make sense that the range drops a smaller percentage then also.

Love a good Fenske video! Practical. Useful. And none of the opinion BS- here is the physics of towing. A dash of future outlook. Boom, done.

Easy: the sedan is towing an air brake while the SUV less so. Makes sense.

Can we PLEASE get a SOFC truck! That is my dream. Slap some Ethanol/Methanol, CNG, or DME in there, and enjoy that Electric with all the range!

You mentioned that the drag due to the trailer is a major issue. Why not then create a bed cap accessory that optimizes the shape of the truck for towing. This would work with the cybertruck and others.

Thanks for the insightful review! As always, great algebra!

I am probably missing something, but to me it would seem that a simplified series hybrid setup solves this problem for potentially very little cost. If we ballparked numbers of say, 1.0 miles per KWH, wouldn't something as small as a 2000W generator (something that retails these days for like $400) be enough to keep EV batteries charged in virtually all circumstances? Seems like the solution already exists and would be very inexpensive, but I am probably missing something.

I wouldn’t trust a range test where the battery was only taken down to 57%. A lot of manufacturers do not use a linear percentage curve, and most of the time it drops off quicker below 50%. Still seems like the Silverado has a massive battery though!

Wow, I actually watch the entire thing.....very impressive and informative presentation.

The important thing to understand is that if your trailer had *any* focus in aerodynamics, it would improve things a lot. More of often than not the trailer design iminates a brick on wheels and has equally good aerodynamics.

While trying to make the ultimate hauling passenger vehicle, they're going to accidentally reinvent semi trucks.

I still remain baffled why these companies don't implement a petro-based APU (range extender), composed of a small turbine running a generator, with maybe a 2-10 gallon fuel tank. Just like the APU on an aircraft. Depending on recharge rates, it could give nearly unlimited mileage, could bolster stationary charging, and would be superb for apartment dwellers and overland-ers alike.

So in my opinion there’s a very easy solution, manufacturers could design a removable adjustable towing spoiler as to direct the air moving over the vehicle over the trailer,the bigger the trailer you adjust it higher with in reason,hgv’s already have theses on top of there cabs for better fuel efficiency

Maybe car manufacturers could sell some sort of body attachment you can put on your truck when towing to help push the air over or around the trailer. Would be less aerodynamic than the truck on its own, but would still be better than the air hitting the big flat surface of a trailer. Another option would be to start designing more aerodynamic trailers with EVs in mind.

In a lot of EU places towing is not allowed at 70mph, often it is more like 55. Same for semi trucks. If range is such an issue why not drive at a lower speed? Consumption drops a lot. I have a hard time understanding why y'all making this a bigger problem than it needs to be.

I would go to say wieght makes no difference what so ever unless your towing up a infinite hill. Where range becomes a issue is generally highway driving and the extra 1% tyer and bearing drag is just so insignificant compared to the aero drag of just having a window open, ignoring the whole trailer.

Thanks for another awesome video! The more I watch videos on EV the more I like my 2014 Audi Q7 TDI. Awesome seven-seater family carrier that has a towing capacity of 5500 lb and "recharges" in a couple of minutes:)

Excellent video - thank you!

I think in the future we will see trailers and camper trailers with built in batteries and electric motors.

The problem with towing is a trailer requires a certain amount of energy to move from A to B, it doesn’t matter what energy source you use in your truck how efficient it is the trailer doesn’t care, it will take the same amount of energy out of you energy source regardless, that’s why being efficient like a cybertruck is useless in towing, it has to small of a energy reserve and can’t give too much of it to the trailer

I love physics and listening to you explain logical explanation of problems based on the science and its mathematical formulas. Thanks again, Jason!

If the ideal solution is a wedge-shaped truck that eliminates the gap between the truck and the trailer, then it would seem the ideal solution is a shroud that eliminates the high pressure area on the trailer and takes advantage of the Cybertruck's wedge-shaped front end.

If you have to tow long range, just get a diesel truck. Maybe supplant it with a smaller, cheaper EV for office commutes and grocery getting. I agree with Jason on short haul and non-towers though.

I would love if you would take a look at Edison Motors concept topsy

Interesting to see some real world data. And I'd certainly agree with the aerodynamic interface between the truck and trailer being important. Back in my roadracing days, my tow vehicle was a GMC Yukon XL. The trailer was a full V nose (A V looking from the top and a slant of the top to the middle of the height of the front) and I kept careful records and was quite happy with the results. With no trailer, I got exactly 15 MPG. With the trailer with racecar in it, I got exactly 15 MPG. So the trailer shape matters and if you're pulling a flat front trailer, prepare to pay for more gas in an ICE truck.

Two ways the problem can be solved; expensive, or cheap. _Expensive:_ Custom trailer or trailer mods to incorporate a slit for air pressure to be alleviated, expelled underneath. _Cheap:_ A mod to scoop the wake flow above the trailer with a bespoke fibreglass shim. There is also the *really* expensive way: trailer battery carriage with power attachment and trailer hitch attachment with connectors, but nobody's gonna do that… _right?_

Towing is like Kryptonite to EV's

a generator would be a great idea for those rare long trips. remove from tray when not needed. hire it out even.

Always love your videos and explanation using math and science to show the results.

This was a great breakdown on a topic that is often argued with all the new EV trucks being released.

Why not hybrids to bridge the range and charging issues?

Trailer with own motor and battery is solution. Make it standard communication. Many trailers already have CAN BUS communication for lights and brakes. Also, internal combustion vehicles would become hybrids. Or, make internal combustion trailers, like Ozzies do with Road trains. Nothing extreme, something low like 2L air-cooled flat 4 making 120HP, which is more than enough for 120 km/h on a flat road.

Another banger🎉. Hey, could you make a video explaining the cvts used in agricultural tractors? I can't seem to understand how they work.

It seems like running the test Mercedes did with a hatchback, a truck without a truck cap and a truck with a truck cap in addition to the sedan and SUV would really help flesh out that data.

so as i understand this, all these towing inefficiencies can be fixed with a Canopy topper smoothing the wake over the trailer!??!?

You're forgetting several things; 1) EV batteries perform much worse in cold temperatures. If you need to tow in the winter, your range will drop ANOTHER 20% or more (the drop in range is much worse than for ICE vehicles), 2) You're quoting the towing range with a brand-new battery. After just a year, you can expect 5% degradation so the expected towing range will drop significantly over time 3) Charging slows down dramatically above 80% state of charge. The actual time needed for a 0 to 100% charge is about twice the time needed for a 10% (nobody will drain their battery to 0%) to 80% charge. That means, in practice, for the 2nd and subsequent legs of your trip your practical towing range will be 70% of the range you listed. For example, factors 1, 2, and 3 will reduce the Silverado's practical towing range from 230 miles to as low as 120 miles and the other trucks to 60 miles - SIXTY MILES!!!. Finally, 4) Charging stations that are fully occupied split the total power available amongst multiple vehicles. Just saw a video where a station with 10 chargers gave 350 kW to one vehicle but when 10 vehicles were charging at the same time each only got 60 kW. You might need 2.5+ hours to charge that Silverado from 10% to 80% so you have to accept that charging times might be far worse than the optimum. EV manufacturers are NOT going to be able to convince buyers that EV towing will be practical and convenient. Perhaps you should re-do this video and at least mention these factors.

As a fellow engineer, I love your unbiased,fact-based analyses. Keep it up, please!!! I have two Model Ys and occasionally tow a small boat short distances - less than 25 miles. It works well for that. If I need to go a long way, I still fall back on my 2007 Silverado and will keep it for that reason. I will trade it in for an electric truck at some point, but not yet...

We recently towed a small trailer with 5 mountain bikes on it behind a Hyundai ioniq 5. The decrease in range was significant, but not dramatic. Towing a horse box would probably have been quite more difficult, range wise. Don't tow anything bigger, wider or taller than you have to, and you'll be fine. Also, the reduced speed limit when towing, means you're pretty much tailgating lorries the whole way, giving you back some of your lost range.

Funny how aerodynamics wasn't considered that much before the EV topic, now its fundamental

Diesel will be the king of towing forever...

Drive at 60mph instead of 70mph, makes a 4 hour journey 4.5 hours, gives 15% more range. Also, get an aerodynamic trailer.

Regular people who own trucks for recreational activities do towing for long distance. People are not taking their RV to go camping 30 miles from their home, they want to visit the national parks, take the fishing boat to the ocean etc where there often are no fast chargers. The video is on point. When pull through fast charging is available everywhere, when EV trucks have the range to make it to the destination in one go. The final component of price has more than list price. It's actual total cost of ownership, and right now the biggest cost of ownership for EVs is the low resale values.That must be addressed too. ICE trucks hold their resale values extremely well. I calculated that going on a 2 week vacation 2x/year, it would only take 2 years til the numbers worked out that it cost less owning a diesel truck than renting one, which is why I bought one.

Big problem with a bigger battery is still charge time. Double the size of the battery pack and now charge twice as often … still a long way to go. Just seems like this isn’t the use case for EV’s. Use the right tool for the job.

Very nice video. I suspect that once Ford releases a Lightning with the long bed, it should match the towing and total range of the Silverado. At least one would hope.

I‘d love to see the same Mercedes Test conducted on ICEs with similar shape differences. I know they have better mileage per filling than EVs, due to energy density of petrol, but I’d be interested in percentages. Since this all seems to come down to aerodynamics, the easiest approach would be aftermarket towing spoilers (like on Tractor Trailer roofs) and optimised aero of stuff you pull.

That makes sense! It’s because the roof, liftgate & rear portion of the vehicle. 4:38