You also bring up such a good point that the more we participate in beauty culture, the further the “finish line” gets, separating us even more from the impossible ideal we can’t help but aim for. ugh lol
i love how honest you were about walking away from the barbie movie wanting to be more beautiful bc omg that was my gut reaction too- having that reaction kinda made me question my sense of self (and self worth) and its relationship to how "pretty" (and thin) i am, or am not- and underscored how much i struggle and long to be liberated from that relationship
I've gotten to the point where i feel the most beautiful when I'm not worrying about it, when I'm doing something that feels like living instead. I'm not a make up person but i do love skin care and fashion in my own way. I focus on dressing and looking in ways that i like, which usually isn't that traditional, and in being comfortable so i can focus more on what I'm doing and experiencing rather than what I'm wearing. I definitely still have moments when beauty standards really crush my spirit but i mostly think I've carved out a little pocket where i can like cool clothes and take care of my skin and hair without caring too much on whether or not i look beautiful.
I've got a complex relationship with this stuff. On one hand I really like make up, especially eyeshadow. When I'm playing around with colours on and around my eyelids, I think of it as art. It's also a form of communication. It's me telling other queer and trans people "hey, I'm here and I'm queer" 😊 Now that I've got my hair more to where I want it, new glasses, and with make up I feel like I'm being seen for the first time in my life. And the feeling is frankly indescribable. On the other hand, I've definitely noticed how strong the socialization around this shit is. Previously I could go through life not really thinking that much about my appearance. Nowadays the first thing I do after I've eaten or drunk anything, is go fix my lipstick. No one told me I should do it, I just know it's what I'm supposed to do. Another side yo this that I really like, are the casual compliments. I do get that there's a danger in this of tying our self worth to continuing to receive those compliments. I definitely notice myself noticing their absence. But I'd be lying if I said it hasn't given so much to receive compliments on my eyeshadow or lipstick, or my tattoos. I also like being able to give these compliments. Obviously concentrating on choices and artistry over physical features. This is something I never experienced living as a masculine person and it's definitely been an improvement on my quality of life. At the same time I am trying to fight the need to always pay attention to my looks. Some time ago I visited a friend and because I'd left in a rush I didn't put on any make up. I took them with me thinking I might do it over at their place but forgot. When I was leaving I remembered the whole make up thing and thinking back on it later I realized it did feel relaxing not thinking about my looks. Something I'm also trying to deal with is the need as a trans femme person to always have my make-up perfect. So internalised transphobia definitely influenced my relationship with this stuff. On the whole thought I find a lot of personal joy in the possibilities of feminine presentation. That's one of the reasons I present mostly femme as a non-binary person. I am however conscious of and actively (some of the time 😄) fighting against the idea that I must present this way or that to be valuable, attractive, or worth connection. I'm also thankful that I like my body as it is, and thus far feel like I'm adding to it or enhancing it, hope I can keep it so in the future. Thanks for starting the conversation, I enjoyed writing down my thoughts on the subject ❤ -Milla
I remember listing all my physical "flaws" in my head, like my hairy legs, mustache, double chin, and thinking if these things were "fixed" then people would like me. And I used makeup as a way to change those things. I watched beauty youtube videos everyday, did extreme dieting, and shaved my whole body. Over the span of years of eating disorder recovery and dealing with depression, I started to resent those beauty standards and I resented the people that expected me to uphold them. Even though I am perceived as woman, I like to have a mustache and hairy legs. And it took/still takes dealing with shame as I present myself without hiding these traits. I also like wearing eye makeup and blush on fun days or nights out. I like clothing fashion and cool shoes and dangly earings and colorful scarves in my curly hair that I took time to conditioner and apply castor oil in to keep away the frizz. Sometimes I wax my mustache and shave my legs for acting jobs because I think that is what is expected of me and they might not consider me for a role or they might think I'm UGLY and UNPROFESSIONAL. And again I feel shame and resentment.
I learned a basic version of professional makeup from a classmate in grad school, and party makeup from roommates in med school. I put it on for "professional" settings when I will be presenting, meeting new people, etc. I have a nagging fear I am "doing it wrong" when I intellecuatlly know that most people won't care and the ones who do care too much. I don't enjoy putting it on, but I enjoy "feeling fancy" and the routine that may get me feeling ready.
As a child and teenager I rejected everything feminine including my own desire to feel pretty. I still struggle with internalised misogynie, and dressing intentionally instead of just throwing on random cast-off clothes from family and friends has been a way to accept myself and my feelings. Choosing my own clothes feels like choosing my own identity. Since I rejected everything around beauty culture for a long time, my taste in what I consider to be beautiful has remained rather natural, and I'm glad about that. I like that so many people look beautiful to me because of their eye colour or hand shape, the way they walk and smile. At the same time, it made me very sensitive to my own appearance. Make up makes me feel like a painted monkey, and the filter my new phone automatically applies to pictures makes my skin crawl. Changes that are supposed to make me prettier feel uncanny and wrong to me. They make me look like a slightly more generic person. It worries me when I see how much value some woman put on their appearance, how much time and money they spend to look slightly more generic. I know that beauty culture can be an expression of identity, I use clothes in that way after all. But especially girls and young woman also try to fit in, look more like the magazine cover model that doesn't actually exist in that form, like the filtered versions of themselves on Instagram. And it scares me to imagine that more and more people recognise their digital, filtered version of themselves better than the one in the mirror. Because then it's not a choice anymore to look like that, right?
I'm definitely more of a if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone, go for it person. One person eschewing beauty culture is not going to stop the unfair demand that women participate in it, so I don't think you should feel bad about enjoying makeup if that is your jam. It's not my jam: I only wear makeup for special occasions and costumes, and I'm pissed that that is held against me sometimes, but that's not really the fault of people who love it.
I clicked on this soooo fast, I am so interested in this kind of conversation right now. I consume a lot of make-up & fashion content on youtube and I feel your ambivalence.
yesss beauty content is most of what I watch but almost none of what I talk about and I wonder why I hold these two ideas about myself so far apart from each other? what purpose is that serving I wonder.
I participate in beauty culture because I like being treated as not invisible by the opposite sex. Sometimes same sex as well. While this certainly doesn't apply to every person, I find that when it comes to first impressions and getting to know someone, how invested they are in what you have to say is proportional to how attractive they find you. People are more willing to invest energy and time into you if you look a certain way. And of course since beauty *is* subjective, experiences will vary wildly depending on the type of people you hang out with. But I want to feel like I have some control over that.
i have negligible personal experience with beauty products and i don't mean to imply that my commentary is warranted/welcome (as a cis man who was raised with a sort of american-male mixture of inundation and ignorance of beauty culture) but: it was deeply reassuring to hear your insights and to read these comments. i think every conversation i have had with friends/family/partners on this subject has immediately accelerated towards extremes and then only after withstanding some initial tension have they been productive. i think that indicates that there is an awareness that many people have of these nuances and that the nuances aren't comfortable, easily reconciled, or really reassuring on any level. instead, i feel like this subject--and of course many other subjects having to do with the curation/creation of identity especially within the overdetermined spheres of beauty and political praxis/signification--is more unsettling, destabilizing, or daunting than anything else. i hope i am not misunderstanding, or mistakenly slipping into a rhetoric of unambiguous disapproval. but what i ask myself in the end is how the status quo, these norms so entwined in capitalist/consumerist society, might ever change, and then further, what changes would i really be able to advocate for... difficult to answer but i just hope that in a few hundred years there wont be as many pervasive societal norms that specifically create these stress-inducing (subconscious and sometimes conscious) personal political contradictions... i hope this made sense ty for making what you make
I stand somewhere in the middle too. I kinda get annoyed with people who act "above it all" and I also can't see someone hurting themselves for looking/feeling more beautiful. I know I'm conditioned to want to apply lipstick or eyeliner (Guilty as charged) but I also get lowkey shamed when I go to some party wearing minimal to no make up... It is a complicated relationship. 🤷🏻♀️
Ach ok I so rarely comment, but I hear you about the disparity between feminist values tryna empower women to make any choices we want and the odd shade being thrown against women who naturally fit the patriarchal ideals for women. I feel that for me it is very egoic, in that I am not naturally gifted in making my appearance appealing to men. Like, at all. I am a queer woman who grew up in a very religious household and looks were severely de- emphasised purposely. This was wonderful in teaching that a person's true value lies in their internal world, but detrimental in it's ignoring of the world we live in, in which there are standards to meet in order to be given the time of day (as absurd as they may be). So I find myself jealous of my friends who are able to do the things that make them get that attention. I resent needing to try harder than them just to reach baseline "male gaze attraction", despite not wanting to even be with a man. But even just on a professional level we are still expected to present in certain ways. This frustrates me, because we're being made to participate in something we don't all wanna do, but also, for those who just like it for whatever reason - go off Queens and Kings and non binary folks!!! Just because I'm not skilled enough to take to it easily and i personally feel forced to learn something I don't wanna doesn't mean it has no intrinsic value. And if it has a value to you - it is inherently valuable in your experience if it. I love that and would never wanna invalidate you ❤️
Feel this 100%. And the goal posts keep moving. The everyday person is getting professional work done to make themselves look better/younger; it's not just celebrities anymore. And for men, too. The idea of a desirable, muscular physique used to be Taylor Lautner in Twilight. Now that's considered tiny compared to Chris Hemsworth as Thor. So now they're all taking steroids, and at young ages. I see this all the time working in gyms. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to look your best by taking care of your body, dressing well, wearing makeup, etc., but even very naturally beautiful people who do all that now look mid next to these impossible standards.
the goalposts keep moving! like how did preventative botox become a widespread thing? there's a writer Jessica Defino who writes about how it may just be all a way to signal wealth. Having visible work done, or having a body that requires hours a day and a team of professionals to achieve are desirable just because it costs a lot of money to have them.
I really enjoy fashion and I'm getting more into the makeup side of things after being a "tomboy" for a long time. I love it, but I feel weird because I wfh and live in a town where people mostly wear work pants and hiking boots. Looking cute makes me stick out more than I like. So I wear nice outfits at home and when I'm in the "city". And I have all the feelings about why I spend so much money on clothes, and why do I care? But I do care
Wearing your cute clothes in the city and not in your neighborhood is so real. I benefit from the anonymity in public because I don’t have to care about people I know seeing me. A stranger can’t make a judgement that will hurt bc they don’t know me. Meanwhile a neighbor or a friend will witness me trying and that’s kind of embarrassing?
All I know is people have been way nicer to me since I started looking better, and that made me want to invest more in beauty because I’m so sick of being disrespected and not taken seriously. I know it’s injust and I hate it but there’s nothing I can do about it
its such a painful little thrill isnt it? i remember this huge switch when I started wearing contacts instead of glasses and started straightening my hair in school. Over night people became so nice to me. And it felt so good, but also terrible to know exactly why they hadn't treated me better before.
Really thought provoking video! Got me thinking too much and in trying to answer your questions at the end I wrote a way too long discussion on the topic of beauty (I'm attaching it as a reply to this comment because while I doubt its actually interesting to anyone else I spent ages thinking about it so why not attach it at this point). Hope you are doing well!
1) I’m not necessarily in the most relevant demographic for the beauty industry but it is something that I think affects everyone. In my mind ‘Beauty’ here isn’t just one thing. I feel like its important to create a separation between: - The experiential emotion of beauty. (e.g. That feeling of being drawn into a moment, the song lyrics resounding in your mind, watching the sun gently set over the sea with the golden light sparkling in the waves, the feeling of that first cool breeze reaching you during the height of summer, the smile on a friend’s face when see each other again for the first time in way too long, the embrace of a loved one in those moments when you really need it, that spark and gentle happiness the first time you hold out your hand to someone special and they take it) - The creation, processing and distilling of these moments that we do as we chase these feelings and want to recreate them. (e.g. From looking over specific past memories and moments that you want to live/relive to the background gradual build up of associations that over all these years have compounded together, steering you towards the new that you hope will inspire that spark again) - The cultural mythology both the zeitgeist and the timeless classics all stirred together, baked into how we have learned to see the world (e.g. ideas picked up through media, family, schooling, religion etc.) - How we act in the face of beauty. How we respond to each of the types of beauty in the previous points and how we perceive the reactions of others to them too. How we respond when we perceive the beauty of others and how we respond in those moments when we notice others perceiving our own beauty. - The way that beauty is codified, categorised and organised on a group level. From artists and philosophers to marketing teams, beauty brands, by-the-numbers Hollywood blockbusters, billboards and adverts. Frequently each of the above try to define and create boundaries around beauty. Drawing and re-drawing the lines of its meaning trying to pin it down into a digestible understandable cohesive whole. - The way that beauty is used as a motivator for targeted action. Typically this is related to motivating people to consume but it is equally used to motivate for things like action against climate change and joining other political causes. Each of these things in and of themselves are not morally wrong. It is the complex interaction of all of these things together that create the no-win scenario that I think you are alluding to in this video. In discussions I have seen of the negative sides of pursuing beauty they weave a story that ties each of the bullet points above in the way roughly outlined below: - Utilise the existing cultural mythology to inspire a perception of beauty in a specific set of others (i.e. use existing associations between aesthetics and happiness, sadness, wealth, power, status, comfort, anger, disgust, safety, fear etc. to create a new association. Imply that a specific thing, idea or experience will bring you closer (or further away) from whichever of those emotions is relevant) - Take advantage of our innate desire to continue perceiving that beauty by providing a pre-prepared processed distillation of that emotion which claims to give us the power to recreate it ourselves. (E.g. If you get 8 hours of sleep everyday and exercise according to this specific regimen you will feel xyz emotion when you look in the mirror) - Craft that pre-prepared processed distillation of emotion so that it motivates us towards specific actions (e.g. buy this skincare product, sign up for an annual subscription to this gym, buy these clothes, learn how to skateboard or speak a new language) - Create the means for taking this action and making it easy and accessible (i.e. sell products, teach courses and/or skills) - This includes using whatever means necessary to ensure this accessibility even if it isn’t entirely moral (e.g. overwork/underpay employees, fail to maintain safety standards, ignore/bypass regulations) - Either change the goal posts, blame the person rather than the designed solution if it fails to deliver its promised emotion, ensure that the designed solution touches close enough to the promised emotional impact but never quite reaches it or ensure that the designed solution requires frequent/constant additional action to maintain the promised emotional impact. (e.g. change what fashion is ‘in’ every other week and make sure to deride the old, create a fad-diet that while technically working is infeasible (and possibly downright dangerous) to maintain, follow this daily beauty regimen that you have to maintain for the rest of your life in order for it to ‘work’) There is also one last ‘negative’ of beauty that is often discussed that is the angle that its pursuit is selfish, superficial or vapid. I want to challenge this notion with the following ideas: - How we present ourselves gives information to those around us by playing on the existing cultural mythology. It helps us identify people who are similar and different to us and can even provide context to how and why those differences & similarities exist. - The idea that the pursuit of positive emotional experiences is vapid or not worthwhile seems to me to beg the question of why do anything. In my mind when you ask the question why pursue efficiency, technical mastery or power you similarly end up discussing emotional desires too. The desire to feel like a good person, to feel like you made an impact. The desire to have feel like you have brought meaning to people’s lives. To some extent beauty can be framed as the desire to bring joy to people in your community, the desire to feel important within a community, the desire to be protected by your community, the desire to have agency and influence within your community. - The pursuit of beauty does not have to detract from other pursuits. People are multi-talented and can be capable across many domains. On what basis can blanket statements about the negative impacts of the pursuit beauty truly be made that couldn’t have equivalents be imagined for other pursuits? - Beauty can be altruistic. Part of bringing beauty to a place, being beautiful or inspiring others to feel beauty can itself be bringing positive emotion to others - Beauty can be practical. We know that aesthetics can influence biases people may or may not end up having about us and others. We also know that beauty can affect how people react to us and others as well as the actions and goals they may end up taking/having. Beauty can be a way of navigating influence, acceptability, power and status. - Beauty can be healing. In many cases beauty can be a counter to stress or emotional hurt. It can distract, redirect and shape our own emotions and the emotions of others towards us. This can help people to regain feelings of agency and control over their lives and can also be capable of aiding people to reframe difficult emotions in a healthier way.
2) Ok, so taking all of the above into account, I don’t believe that the pursuit of the experiential emotion of beauty is immoral. But the ways in which we attempt to achieve that emotion for ourselves and for others can be flawed and/or not aligned with our morals. So what do we do if we want to change things? In my opinion if we want to make changes we can try at each of the different levels of beauty I outlined earlier. - For the experiential emotion of beauty: - Seek variety in your sources of beauty. Seek to understand on an emotional level the beauty that other people see and feel that may not come as readily to you. - Seek to understand the different kinds of beauty you experience. What other emotions are associated with each kind of beauty? Compassion? Envy? Desire? Relaxation? Safety? Warmth? Recognition? Guilt? Joy? - If you can widen your options for ways to experience the emotion then you don’t always have to rely on options you may have mixed/difficult feelings about - E.g. what potential experiences could inspire a new kind of beauty for you? What emotional associations would you find compelling or appealing? - For the creation, processing and distilling of beauty: - Try to consider and understand how you frame and structure the different kinds of beauty. (e.g. why is clear skin something that resinates with me? What emotional associations do I make with that kind of beauty. What category of beauty does clear skin fall into? (e.g. Attractiveness?) What other kinds of beauty are also in this category? (e.g. Straightened & whitened teeth? Hair style?) What are the boundaries of this category? (e.g. Does fashion choice fall into this category or not?) Why does watching a bee pollinating flowers feel beautiful to me? What emotional associations do I make with that kind of beauty? How do the emotional associations of clear skin and bees pollinating flowers differ and how are they similar? Is there a way of looking at the world that comes naturally to me in the first situation but not for the second (& visa versa)? Is it possible for me to try to apply the way of seeing beauty from the first situation to the second (& visa versa)? (e.g. can I try to interpret the beauty of clear skin or the category of ‘attractiveness’ through the lens that I view the beauty of a bee pollinating flowers? How far can I bring the simple charm and gentleness of pollinating bees to my experience of noticing clear skin?) - How do other people frame the same source of beauty? (What other possible options for reactions to watching bees pollinate flowers exist? Some people might be bored, or scared of bees or they might find beauty in the ingenuity of the plants to have evolved to entice bees to pollinate them through the promise of nectar) - Do other people find beauty in sources that somehow oppose your framework of beauty? (Can someone else find beauty where you find boredom, inconvenience, annoyance or even disgust?) - For the cultural mythology both the zeitgeist and the timeless classics - How do other cultures current and historical differ from the default cannon where you are? (This can be achieved through the reading of fiction and non-fiction, by seeking the analysis of others and seeking out sources of information to compare and contract for yourself) - What is an inversion of a typical trope in the accepted mythology of beauty? How can you find beauty in that? (This can be achieved again through exposure to the fiction and non-fiction writings (other media forms also accepted) of others as well as through creative writing and analytical thesis of your own or even just conversations within your communities. What matters is the conveying of ideas and the creation of new associations with existing categories of beauty (as well as the adjustment of existing ones) + the creation of new categories/groupings of beauty. - For how we act in the face of beauty - We can first try to understand our instinctive reactions to different kinds of beauties and the messages we are conveying to others through them - If we are not fully comfortable with our reactions can we dive deeper into why? - Can we attempt to champion responses that more align with what we would prefer our reactions to be? - Can we seek ways to do so without guilt for our initial reactions? The aim isn’t to be perfect, reactions we want to change are not signs of our failure or immorality. It is simply an exercise of recognition so that in future we can actively try to create new associations that are more aligned to our desired response. This is not about any specific time we respond to beauty but instead trying to understand what associations we would rather have - Now we have an idea of where we are and where we want to be we can then start to make a plan - What aspects of the cultural mythology we grew up in do we want to challenge? - What kinds of beauty are we interested in diversifying and exploring deeper? - Whose experiences can we try to learn from? - What resources exist already? - What actions can we take to create new associations for ourselves? - What actions can we take to create new associations for others? - For the way that beauty is codified, categorised and organised on a group level - Using the above to decide what categories of beauty we think are important and analyse how we would like them to be shaped in the future: - Seek to understand what specific influences create that group level categorisation? Advertising? Hollywood? Books? RU-vid & TikTok creators? Social media platforms in general? - Do other influences with equal claim to pedigree already exist that align more closely with our desired goals regarding beauty? - What can we do to increase the awareness / impact of these influences? - Look at both structures and individual pieces of content - How could existing structures be changed (e.g. social media algorithms? Advertising regulations? Funding structures?) - In what ways content be made using existing structures that are in alignment with the changes you want to make to each kind of beauty? (E.g. can you run your own adverts or RU-vid channels? Write your own books? Feature your message positively in the news? Reach your communities meaningfully?) - For the way that beauty is used as a motivator for targeted action: - Consider and understand the impacts of different actions you are being motivated to take - Are there applicable equivalent alternatives that are viable options for you that can help you meet your emotional needs while reducing negative impacts? [nb. It is crucial that your own personal circumstances are considered here, not everyone is in a position to do everything. This is all in relation to what is sensible and possible for each individual. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses in different areas and so can each make progress differently] (e.g. seeking cruelty free make-up) - Can you imagine / invent new actions that meet your emotional needs? - What different actions do other people take to meet similar emotional needs? For all of the above potential approaches to improving our relationships with beauty we can consider them on an individual and community level. How can I consider these things more myself and how can I discuss, refine and endorse them within my communities? How can we share the load of considering these topics between different groups of people. We don’t have to do everything on our own we can share the workload and then cooperate and communicate continuously throughout. Try to find communities of people you can trust to act in good faith. Don’t try to take on everything as an individual. As with almost all areas, perfection and guilt are not useful if you want to stay motivated to make changes. It is okay to make mistakes and beating yourself up over them can actually harm your ability to contribute in the future. Mistakes are there to be learned from and frankly if learning from them is the aim then in the long run they rarely outweigh all the other contributions that you have made / are making / could make in the future to the areas you care about. Beauty is complex and multifaceted. Like almost all topics it has its important and good aspects as well as its less good aspects. Uncurious comment on the actions of others (and yourself) without caring to understand their situations will likely only take you farther from solving the current societal issues with the different aspects of beauty. Change starts with the consideration, creation, diversification and distribution of ideas both at the individual and community level. Then structures to help facilitate and organise action in alignment with those ideas can be created. Enjoying beauty does not make someone a bad feminist, I don’t think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater like that, I think it is crucial to understand what beauty does for us if we want to improve our relation to it. I feel like that approach will yield a lot more positive outcomes and more effective interventions than trying to shut off our relationship with it entirely.
uuugggghhhhh, I have a lot of thoughts about how dying my hair was a really difficult decision for me to make as an Asian American and now I have to edit a video because if I'm going to write a 1000 word essay I may as well just film me reading it
I love "getting pretty" for an event or filming myself, and I love being creative with it. But I've always tried to avoid makeup in my every day life because I know that makeup is a product being sold to me as a "need." I think as human beings, we love optimizing, and skincare companies and makeup companies love telling us that their products will make our life better or at least make us feel good, and that marketing works. My optimized self at events looks and feels great, but I also need to look and feel great without all that stuff, and I try to. But also, I only buy eyebrow products because I think my eyebrows look too sparse in photos otherwise. Idk. There's a lot of "meeting the social contract," that I do in terms of makeup, but I think as long as I treat makeup as something that's fun to do, but not necessary for me to feel beautiful, I'm doing okay.
oof that marketing works so well. There's also a thing of how I wear more makeup on camera than I ever do in my daily life. I don't wear concealer out in the world. But I won't film a video without it. I wonder why I feel like the bar for "meeting the social contract" is so much higher for something that's going to live online?
Beauty is the way we see things, and value them. I know here you are talking about the appearance one, it is constructed actually and our thoughts about beauty are borrowed from society. Beauty is nothing but everything. Love your work ❤️
i was talking to a friend recently and out perceptions of beauty culture were kidna rhe same, but coming from different perspectives. she uses colorful, graphic makeup and loves it, so she keeps doing it wven when she doesn't have to, or if a place isn't welcoming. i, on the other hand, hate makeup (mostly sensitive skin and sensory issues related). bit i felt compelled to wear it because of my environment, not in spite of. that said, i love skincare, makes me feel more in control with my finicky skin. my personal change with beauty culture has been my choice not to wear concealer or coverup my dark circles. i don't believe anyone needs a "blank canvas" to enjoy beauty anyway and it's frustrating to me that even women who love color and glitter need to erase regular human features. age (i am 30 lol) has made my circles more noticeable and i started seeing how this plays into youth glorification and ageism. so if i wear glitter on my eyelids, it's gonna be along the circles, not against them
I'm definitely more in your friends camp. Especially being trans femme and queer, there's a very specific audience I do my makeup for. If other people have opinions on it, I don't really care. Obviously I notice and feel the hostile looks but that's just what you deal with when you're trans. I relate to you however on the concealer thing. I don't actually even use foundation. I just do my eyes, eyebrows, a bit of blush, and lipstick. I like decorating my face and communicating my queerness, not trying to make my face fit some kind of obscene standard of perfection. This also relates to my transness (😂😂 because what doesn't) in the way that I'm kind of actively trying not to pass. Or at least resisting the temptations to try to pass. Obviously I'm non-binary so what would I even pass as 😂 However I view this as kind of a resistance to normative ways of looking at beauty or makeup. The point for me isn't to follow convention, it's to do what I enjoy.
oh yes, my friend and i are both cis white women, so that makes us less noticeable either way and less of targets in general. but like, we found it interesting how her makeup style made people question why she wasn't using it to be "prettier" if she was using it at all. mine makes people question of i am worthy of being "pretty enough" with my dark circles or blemishes or whatever. it's odd how differently pretty privilege plays into this. and thanks for your reply, it made me reflect on other ways folks experience these issues outside our space. keep enjoying what makes you feel good and colorful, friend
@@lorenabpvIt's funny how you phrased the comments directed at your friend, because I'm consciously "not making myself prettier" using make-up. I don't know how your friend views this but personally it's a conscious choice not to adhere to normative beauty standards and conventions of using make-up. Being a queer person, I'm purposefully queering make-up. Which actually funnily enough ends up serving the original purpose, making me more attractive just not to cishet white men. Yeah, completely agreed that pretty privilege affects this a bunch. Not only in the super gross narratives you describe being directed at you and your friend. I also recognise it in my own behaviour. I'm relatively attractive in a conventional sense and my face is naturally pretty androgenous. I think that gives me a lot of leeway in regards to using make-up. I don't feel a lot of pressure to shape my face which I can totally imagine someone with features viewed as more masculine would have. I also had pretty privilege when I was living as a man and still do, due to my body. I think this has made my transition emotionally a lot easier than it could have been. I'm glad if I could provide you with an expanded view relating to the subject. I find all this super fascinating and a topic that rarely gets the nuanced discussion it merits. I also want to say again, I know it's obvious but I'm a big believer in saying these things out loud, what you and your friend face is super gross and the people saying that aren't worth your time. Especially concerning you, the standard of femme skin being smooth and without any marks of life is infuriating. I'm super proud of you for not covering your body even under all the pressure. Thanks for sharing, really appreciate your viewpoint on this as well ❤️
a new itsradishtime video :D its tough out here taylor, i appreciate your honesty in discussing this topic. my middle grade of late has been wearing eyeshadow and lip colour but no concealer or foundation. ive found myself being less judemental of my 'beauty' as well as other peoples. and makeup has become more of a thing i do when i want to look more colourful instead of more beautiful
I like this approach and was going to say this is exactly what I do, except for thats not true. I can't bring myself to go on camera without concealer/foundation/powder because the pressure to try to look good on camera, where you'll just be a small thumbnail among hundreds of more beautiful faces is so great.
I opt out of most femme beauty standards, but opt is perhaps too strong of a word as it's never felt like much of a choice. I've lacked any mentors for make up and I just don't have the skill. I admire it in others, but don't value it enough to try and develop it for myself. And if I'm being honest, also not brave enough to visibly go through the bad/learning stage in my mid-thirties.
since you mentioned hair, I wanted to add something: i hate hair trends and the pressure to follow them, i prefer letting mine grow until it's hard to deal with and look like a forest witch lol but yeah, it's far easier for me to do that because i have lomg, virgin straight hair. having a stylish haircut is a choice i can afford to not make, given that my natural hair os considered acceptable by society's standards. that said, i find wavy/curly long, voluminous hair gorgeous and i wish more of thw women around me rocked that, instead of haircuts they don't like, just for the lsck of judgement
It took me a long time to come around to my natural waves, but you're right, it was mostly because starting from a young age people would tell me it looked so much better when I straightened it. There's research on curly haired women being more likely to get a job if they straighten their hair for an interview. I can't be bothered now, but I also don't work in an office anymore. I think I'd feel differently if I did.
I feel beautiful. When I don't, I go eat something delicious, like a homemade tuna sandwich with BBQ chps. I dress myself up in my favorite colors on joyful occasions. I find it useless to come to a collective agreement on beauty, it's perception, and catering to its needs, because for one, it most modern media there is a skew towards showcasing European features as an ideal standards, which is not FOR me and that's the truth based on my pride of origin, and two, I can acknowledge the real impacts of beauty culture, and have become keenly curious about my own inward dialogue that may route my outward behavior. Like can you imagine, to a baboon, we're all probably butt ugly. I know you mentioned having a nuanced discussion, and I guess it becomes subjective to all of our definitions and standards, etc.
i like this approach. was it a tumblr post I saw that was like, if you feel like you hate yourself, take a shower. if you feel like you hate everyone, have something to eat, if you feel like everyone hates you, go to sleep. it fixes so many more problems than I'd like to admit
As a relative newcomer to the beauty world, I feel several ways about it. When I lived as a man, I used to resist it, saying it was consumerist and snake oil, and generally rejecting the entire industry as a scam. But now, I buy all kinds of creams and brushes and makeup, because in my head it's changed to "it's okay for me to buy this, I'm a girl." It makes me wonder if my rejection was really based on my political views, or if it was just an unexamined gender prejudice. Either way, feeling pretty is its own reward. Get that feeling any way you can!
I originally know you from the xoVain days. If I were rich, I would pay a looooot of money to fix my lopsided facial features if it were possible do it via magic and not surgery. I love makeup but finally had to admit I had no business owning so much makeup considering I never do anything or go anywhere, so I donated most of it to my sister and kept a few basics (including three red lipsticks, natch). I'm annoyed that I've been taught my eyelashes need to be dark and voluminous, like excuse me, why?? If we referred to them as eyeball hairs maybe we would care less about how they look. I've thought about starting a youtube channel for my art several times, but always back out because I can't stand looking at my face on camera. I dunno man. It's tough out here.
wow an xoVain reader! I did always like that the vibe there was a little bit more irreverent and do what you like, at least until the brand sponsorships started coming in. I know what you mean though, I still have trouble looking at my face on camera after all these years,
yes! could talk about this all day, i'm trying to write fiction rn about perfume & pleasure & luxury & communism and i am going in constant circles about it all! it is interesting to me though that the derision of effeminate luxury & ~artifice is pretty much as old as capitalism at least (a huge political anxiety of the 18th century in Britain was the nation & it's men being corrupted by effeminacy/luxury/the french; plus i always think of Swift's 'The Lady's Dressing Room' when objections to makeup etc get a bit misogynistic) not really sure where i'm going with that, but it definitely interests me!
what a great conversation. add in aging to the beauty conversation and some days i'm like - yes i love being older and other days i'm like - noooo. i wish i had something deep and profound to add to this.
me: aging is a privilege and i look forward to it and it increases rather than diminishes my value. me when i find a gray hair: noooo its over for me i’m dying
I'm trying to remember if I actually identified as a woman or just "didn't mind" aka "was too shy to say" when I was part of a Facebook group called WANG (women against non-essential grooming) for a year or so in uni. They were staunchly against anything extra including shaving, cosmetics, surgery, I assume fancy clothes? I left because of racism, as ever, lol (white women trying to dictate which black hairstyles were "too much effort" and thus non-essential, that everyone should just need a basic conditioner and shampoo, if that, etc). Haven't thought about that in a quite a while. I think I inhabit the middle space with you, maybe slightly towards "forget it all"; I love skincare but try to do the barest minimum as so little has scientifically proven effects, but follow the news, listen to the beauty brains podcast, love to talk about it, argue with friends who say it's all BS, and want to incorporate a retinoid ASAP. I love lipstick and have too many, but I balance that out by not buying any other makeup besides eyeliner and eyebrow products (and infrequently, over a year at the minute!). Since getting locs I have managed to drastically cut my hair product usage, but I always get annoying '5 bottles of shampoo' lyrics in my head when I shop now lol. Shut up, I am seeing what works for me!! I have fallen headlong into fashion though; making clothes, looking at clothes on Instagram and slow fashion and swap pages, etc. If it was easier to make cosmetic products I would do that too, I got really into the idea of making cosmetics (shampoos, lipsticks and lotions especially) but only got as far as things that don't contain water, baby steps in the cosmetology world. As far as feminism goes, I think not everything you do has to reflect your politics, so long as you can sleep at night (ideally on a satin pillowcase, on your back, to prevent wrinkles and hair breakage and frizz! Ha ha). I think beauty standards are a hard one to challenge; bringing down cis hetero patriarchal ableist racist (etc, kyriarchy is easier to write but less well known) capitalism is hard, it turns out. I try to concentrate my efforts where they should work, and hope that I haven't been too distracted in the meantime.
It's late so I have trouble retaining your whole comment or making coherent points 😂 Can't wait to have my ADHD meds back in two weeks 😅 Anyways, I wanted to say I really liked what you wrote and related to a lot of it. As a queer trans femme person my presentation is very important to me and I just enjoy make up, especially eyeshadow. At the same time having the dual perspective of having lived as a masculine person it's very clear to my how different the expectations are and how easy all this shit is to internalise. Also the last chapter 👏so👏good👏. -Milla
damn the "which black hairstyles are too much effort" would have been my villain origin story. I think the only way we can get out of this loop IS in community with other people. Like, maybe I could stop getting judged at work for not wearing makeup if we all agreed at the same time to stop right? But over and over we see how many marginalized people don't want *everyone* to be at the same level. they just want to be the ones at the top.
Maybe I'm not the audience for this comment section because I have never seen makeup or skincare as a thing that could or should be for me outside of the occasional use of concealer for a job interview, but I watch a lot of fashion youtube and I feel like there's a lot of discourse overlap? I think both beauty and fashion can be about self-expression and making your body a canvas for something fun, but very easily and often become about looking or not looking the ways society thinks (women) should look, as well as classism, ageism, racism, fatphobia, ableism etc. I don't know the experience you're talking about of being treated when you're perceived as pretty, but an outfit can make me read very differently in the world and be treated differently, sometimes, while many other times I feel different but no one notices. Sometimes I care more than others, but when I don't care for long enough I do miss putting together a "cute outfit" whether or not anyone else cares... I dunno.
i think this idea absolutely translates to fashion as well! It's just an area I've never felt as skilled at. In some ways I think i over index on the skincare and makeup stuff *because* I don't know how to dress very well and I feel like I need to make up for lost points, in a way.
@@ItsRadishTime I wouldn't be surprised if the inverse is true for me, like I only know how to put effort into my clothes and possibly hair so there's more pressure on that to communicate since my face is just gonna be what it is
I think being a person is a net of contradictions But as a person who in the gay world now qualifies as a cub (ignore the tiny 18 year old profile pic I cba to change it) I find myself doing a kind of style maths, I need to dress 1 and a half times cooler to get the same level of cool as my peers It also doesn't help that I play the hokey cokey with gender identity in a fluidity way and I know if I was ever to perform any of this in outside society I'd be judged on a knife edge because dudes doing gender non conformity has that additional 1.5 x cooler thing on top of what I'm already working with So I ... Stop playing games. I wear social camo, I take risks on special occasions when I need a pick-me-up but a tee shirt and jeans hides a lot of sins
style math is such a thing. I also feel like it happens with other marginal identities. Like when black women and fat women feel the need to like always have their hair done, a dressy outfit, a manicure to be taken as seriously as the dude at work in wrinkled khakis and a polo. I think I've been doing style math in my head this whole time without a word for it.
isn't there a princess weekes video where she talks about that? I swear she has a video about how black women need to do extra womanhood and extra girly things to get allowed into the club of "womanhood" @@ItsRadishTime
I really, really liked this video. I’ve been interested in makeup and skincare for a long time and you’ve really articulated some of my feelings about the ‘I want the thing’ but ‘I know these capitalism is making me want the thing and focus on continual individual “self-improvement” rather than on collective organising’ Gender has also really complicated my feelings towards makeup - I’m non-binary love doing makeup on myself or trying cool looks but generally prefer to present much more masculine. I don’t love how sometimes wearing makeup makes people go ‘ah yes! woman!’ So I have ended up with a lot of makeup I don’t really wear in my day to day life which is… maybe worse…? Have recently been trying out drag as a way to do makeup but also be…. at least a little bit subversive with it. Don’t have any kind of answer but just some thoughts!
thank you. i feel you on the gender thing. despite being cis, I grew up having to wear my brothers hand me downs and when I finally had more control over my appearance it was like LETS GET AGGRESSIVELY FEMININE because I so craved that "ah yes! woman!" feeling. I hadn't given much thought to just how exactly that could backfire for others.
I've always had a weird relationship with beauty culture. As a recovering NLOG (not like other girls) teenager, I try to be less judgemental of the choices that other women make than I have been in the past. (internalized misogyny is weird) I've never really liked make up or skin care stuff (I'm too lazy tbh), but when I found out in my teens that I had naturally curly/wavy hair that could be absolutely gorgeous with the right shampoo/conditioner combo and like the tiniest amount of product it has been one of my favorite ways to pamper myself. I love taking care of my hair and when my curls are doing their thing I get super excited. I also recently started painting my nails again. I really enjoy the process of painting my nails even if I still fundamentally lack the patience to let them dry properly. It's taken a lot of energy to de-couple painting my nails from the gender stuff its tied to (as someone trying to be more masc/androgynous it felt like it was a feminine marker in the worst way possible) and honestly I'm still working on it. But I try my best to just enjoy the process because it is fun and I like it and that is enough to keep doing it. Beauty standards are weird because I think that people like doing things for themselves that make them feel good and lot of the time the easiest way is to do something that makes you feel good is through something that is beauty related (hair, makeup, skincare, etc). It's self-care in a weird way.
RECOVERING NLOG wow I am one of those too. I think I've come around to understanding that it is both self care in that I like taking the quiet time in the bathroom to layer on my goo, but it is also so stress relieving to meet expectations. Like it's both the carrot and the stick at the same time?
What a dilemma that I resonate with. I use to fall into the extremes as well. Participating both in hyper feminity in how I dressed/looked and then towards I don’t care so I don’t shave anything on my body and don’t wear any makeup. Now I find myself trying to find a balance. Ofcourse I still fall into the extremes, I’m not perfect. But recognizing that I like beautiful things and that includes playing with makeup. But I also loathe shaving and anything pain inducing that’s “beauty related”. So it’s a constant battle in my mind to be aware enough of why I’m doing what I’m doing with my body. Some days it’s easier to live my best life and wear and present myself as I please. Other days it’s harder and I find myself reverting back to the I don’t care how I look or I deeply care so let me put on makeup. Either way I feel shame in that situation but I fear being ostracized even more. There’s also very valid reasons to be fearful like my jobs professional dress code.
İn Islam you can choose where to participate in "beauty culture". You can wear makeup and "be pretty" because you want to, among people who already know how awesome you are with or without it. You can shield yourself from the harmful aspects of introducing your presence solely by your outer appearance to strangers who do not necessarily care about your personal well-being. You can be both ends of the spectrum in respective, relevant context. You are essentially controlling your image and who gets to admire it. Boundaries. İt doesn't have to be all or nothing.
I don't usually think too much about makeup, but for me it's body hair. Do I care, because I was programmed this way, or because I genuinly prefer to shave? If I don't, is it because I am a feminist, or am I using it as an excuse to be lazy an unhigenic? I don't know
My girlfriend had to threaten me to stop using two in one shampoo/conditioner, and I haven't brushed my hair in five years. Even work dress codes couldn't force me to put in effort. I'm not even antagonistic about beauty culture; just incredibly apathetic... Dunno what it is.
I am lazy, I just don’t want to spend all that time getting ready in the morning and taking it off before bed. It’s not a feminist choice either. I like the 50’s looks with sharp edges and bright lipstick, but don’t care enough to put in the effort
i dont really participate in the whole skin care and makeup stuff often, but i do buy expensive dresses. they are expensive because being a plus size hijabi, i have to dress modestly while still wanting to look cute, and trying to get dresses that cover me properly but still look good means i have to compromise on cost. i rejected feminity for the longest time, i identify rn as genderqueer but as a youth i was so masc, more tomboyish. but now im embracing the femme and i love it. though i hate that i cant just walk into a second hand clothing shop and find exactly what im looking for because of my 3 reasons (plus size, hijabi-friendly, and cute clothing). and i dont have the patience/social assurance within myself (social anxiety) either. and though i feel so dumb sometimes for spending all this money, i know that when i wear it, i am SO happy and content, so it doesnt really matter in the end that i succumbed to beauty standards of femininity. it was a long journey of gender dysphoria and euphoria for me to get here, and im happy i finally feel good about clothes that i wear, yknow? thank you for this video, as always
I love your comment and I relate so much to what you’re saying! It’s largely why I want to get into sewing. It’s really difficult to find nicely fitted garments in the styles you really want. Personally, one of my struggles is that the kind of things I’m interested in are rarely carried in plus size, or they remove all the interesting elements from it (like making a very ruffled and tiered skirt into only 2/3 simple tiers when replicated) which so disheartening. It seems like learning the craft is the only perfect solution cost wise. Also 100% thrifting plus sized is quite luacklustre. The plus size clothing choices available whilst thrifting are abysmal in the uk. Alhamdulilah living in a colder climate means I can layer most of the year, so I mostly find my way around the modest hijabi friendly part.
Just a stranger on the interesting saying I partly relate and I’m so happy you’re finally feeling good and confident in the clothes you decorate yourself with 💕
I think the main thing for me is shaving my legs and armpits. I like how it looks better, and I like my legs feeling smooth, and I wish I did not because I don't know how to change that, not sure I even can. I've gone for long periods without shaving (I tend not to shave my legs during the colder months) and it hasn't changed how I felt about it. I've gone outside a few times with my legs showing and not shaved, but unless it's like just going out to get the mail, it made me anxious, and I always had to convince myself. I did so those few times partly because whenever I've seen another woman with her legs not shaved, it like... I don't know gave me courage or made me feel better in some weird way? A recognition of resistance perhaps? I don't know exactly nor how to articulate it. Still it hasn't worked long term, and I've kind of given up at present. I've never been able to even do that with my armpits at all though. In regards to make-up, it's interesting. I wasn't allowed to wear it when I was younger, and I had no way to learn, so I simply never did. I like 30% wish I did, so that I could do fun looks, but I'm also 70% grateful because I think I would've come to rely on it due to a lot of insecurities and would've had to work really hard to (and maybe not been able to at all) be comfortable seeing myself or having others see me without it. As it stands, I really only wear lipstick on occasion, and that I love. Adding colors I like is just fun for me.
