Can You Fix Oversteer with Setup & Technique? 

Agree, I suffer with bad understeer.Worse at Silverstone for some reason. Will look out for your next analysis

@@lydiagould3090 I also think it's one of the hardest problems to fix 😬

@@lydiagould3090 a quick fix would be larger front tires, or put a thinner front swaybar. Or put a thicker rear swaybar. Theres so many variables. Is it a fwd or a rwd?

it's slow

Easy there Colin, be a good boy and go out and play with your rally car in the mud xD

Mega mate! Top driving - you should get in a race series...

I just noticed you have a rear wing. If you think its more high speed oversteer, easiest change is ADD more rear wing. One notch should suffice. If it's the slow speed corners then you want to soften the rear or stiffen the front to change the roll center. I think your solution is with the rear aero. Reducing rake will also work for both mechanical and aero if you are suffering in both low and high speed corners. Best of luck!

derzie01 Thanks for your input, yeah it’s got an absolute gigantic pair of wings. I have no scientific data but eyeballing the rear one the angle on it looks ‘about right’ Any more angle and I think it would be actually an air brake more than a wing! Also I don’t know how effective at producing any down force it actually is, airflow back there is pretty turbulent. I’m at Donington on the 2nd Nov, will play around with settings and angles then. (As well as my technique!)

Flying Lap Sounds good! Just remember, one change at a time. Let’s us know!

Maybe you have bump steer slightly ,wheels are better to bump out slightly under compression but still be toeing in , watch this video , Cobra Bump Steer 2.wmv well explained, also long acre racing have a good list of bump adjustments . Cheers .

TankRust The Atom is fairly controllable even in maximum attack. I’ve driven one in a local track here and the car is very forgiving way more forgiving than something like a Caterham since that car has very fast turn in making it quite twitchy for less experienced drivers, Mind you i only driven the standard Atom with a K20 Honda engine never have I tried the V8 version since i’ve heard that thing is a completely different beast flat out

@@GTChucker86 Yes there is a very well set up Atom that runs local to me as well. It is the 300hp supercharged version with full custom aero bits, and puts down very quick lap times. They are definitely extremely capable cars, it just appears that this particular one has a setup that makes it very loose in all phases of cornering. I bet it's a blast if your skills are up to the task!

TankRust Highly likely his suspension is all setup wrong. Well setup and balanced Atoms dont oversteer unless you’re aggressive with it but this Atom seems to behave or turn in like a Holden Monaro with oversteer all the way through. Edit: its like making an F1 car handle like a V8 Supercar 😂

This is spot on

SteveRabbits Actually the Atom in my opinion when I drove it at a local track here has been far more forgiving than the Caterham i rented. Then again the owner did spend quite a bit of time working on the suspension setup

Depends so much of the model and the spec.

@@GTChucker86 Yep, kind of my point, after being around for so many years now and being a pretty much track focused car (I am aware they get driven on roads as well before everyone writes in! 😂) you would think Ariel would supply them with that already done especially at the price they are!

SteveRabbits well the car is literally just a roll cage with wheels and an engine the car itself is literally inviting you to work on its setup😂. So yeah Atom may have different ideas what or how the car handles out of the box but its up to you to set it up to your liking, you dont just drive a new car you bought and then leave the sitting position all the way forward as it was left in the dealer now do you? 🤣

@@GTChucker86 No but neither do I drive it home from the showroom and then expect to have to fiddle with the suspension because the factory set up is dangerous! I have lost count of how many times I have seen Atoms go off on track with factory set suspension settings. I agree it invites you to work on the settings but that is tricky when your chassis is bent from going through a barrier backwards! 😂😂😂😂

JerainJezza can’t get softer than no anti roll bar 😂

@@najuad You can put a softer spring in rear or a stiffer ARB in front if it has one.

Theres so many variables. Tire sizes, pressures, damper, sways, Springs. Toe and camber

camber I'd say looking at the temps across the face, that's what we do anyway

add +rake and lower rear tyre pressure..take both

Tyre temps as well. The atom is like most lightweights v v sensitive to cold tyres. Pressures can help this.

or anti roll bars

Yes, ride height in a non-aero car would help every corner, every phase.

Nice approach man. I believe that with this sequence of test of setups you can gain some confidence with less oversteer. But I'm not sure cause I've only tested in sim and am future engineer with not enough experience. So... Just hope it helps. Try each and see if times or handling improves. 1- try more rear toe in 2- try less rear camber 3- soften rear susp (as you did) 4- less rear roll stiffness 5- a better limited slip 6- more downforce And if the rear is breaking loose suddenly (not progressive with more steering and/or throttle) after a bump or curb, try having more suspension travel in the rear

@@0Freguenedy0 Hello! 1- yes with more toe in' there is less oversteer and better motricity, it's a fact. Perfect for newbies. But more understeer en less vivacity. I don't like. 2- There is few camber sotck (1°), and unless put 4° not change a lot. 3- yes 4 - there is no anti-roll bar 5- mine is a Torsen, better htan the stock quaife. 6- well, all laptimes tests are better without aeropack than with. As i said, this car is faster with oversteer than neutral or understter. The concept of the Atom is to be fun to drive, like a Kart. 7 - The only real solution is to track with slick. Quicker, when you achieve to warm front tires.

@@bdragonfry nice car and technic. Loved your videos. You're living a dream of mine

@@0Freguenedy0 Watch my video called " a la poursuite de cater" ;)

Does the Diff allow tuning ?

I agree with the tire pressure. Try something easy and that only afects the rear axel. The rake would afect the front, i would also try to remove some tire pressure at the rear.

Yes! Submit it to the link in the description.

If possible I would soften the rear rebound hydraulics (to ensure that the rear wheels copy the track more under breaking), probably stiffen up the front compression to have less weight transfer under braking. Also the compression rear setting need to be soften to allow the rear of the car to sit (and have more weight transfer on the rear) in the acceleration phase. Camber and anti-roll bars definitely helps too, but more in the middle of the corner (near the apex) than entering/exiting the corner

@@andrea7693 I would recommend the same setup changes as you did, though I didn't want my post to turn into a TLDR situation, hence neglecting to mention them specifically. This is why I LOVE dampers that compression and rebound independently adjustable because it really enables you to dial in a car to near perfection. Anyway, the setup changes you suggest should help on corner entry and exit quite significantly, but they won't be enough for a car that oversteers throughout the entire corner. This is very likely a severe case of having the overall steady state balance of the car completely wrong to begin with and those tweaks alone won't fix the car unless actual roll bar and maybe even spring rate changes (aka steady state roll, wrap and pitch rates) are made. This is a relatively high power to weight ratio, lightweight car, setting it up for progressive understeer that terminates with mild to moderate understeer at the limit of grip makes much more sense and is faster overall than showing off your 4 wheel drifting skills.

@@4G12 Really glad to see someone commenting that has a firm grip over the topic he's discussing. Having said that I'm pretty sure that your knowledge of the setup adjustments is greater than mine, so I won't add much more! What I can add is that, ideally you would like a bit of oversteer (nothing that requires opposite lock inputs, but just a tendency to point inside the corner) while trail braking/pointing for the the apex and the same while accelerating out of the corner to be able to give max throttle without the car understeering out of the track. I do agree with you that an understeering car is easier to push to the limit but could be limiting too, lap time wise.

Andrea Pecchiari guys - really interesting chat. I have adjustable KW V3 on a 996 911 which has some rake in the set up. I’m having what seems like a bit too much oversteer on exit - would you start by tweaking 1. Less rake, 2. Soften rear anti roll bar, or 3. Less compression and rebound at the back? Many thanks for any help!! Also front seems like it rolls a little too much - does that change any recommendation? Stiffen ARB at front?

@@0TheDudeHAHAHA0 As Scott said the best adjust must come from the driver.. Depending on the car and it's tendency you must tweak your lines and inputs first. Only then you can fine tune the setup to bring it closer to what you prefer.. Having said that I refer you to 4G12 which I'm sure can give you a couple advice, Porsche are a bit of an outlier since the weight is sitting overhanging in the back.. so you already have a lot of weight over the rear to push down those tyres.. less rake could negatively impact turning in (causing understeer) but could improve corner exit stability.. it's a short blanket, you have to try going in a direction with your setup, then came back and slowly find the balancing point where you have a nice compromise

Put a car on corner weight scales and drop the rear ride height... It adds weight to the rear. I've done this with literally hundreds of cars over the last 15 years - it reduces oversteer no doubt.

@@Driver61 Hi Scott, firstly I mostly agree with things you say and I also think it would be fairly likely that lowering the rear would have some effect of reducing oversteer. But from a basic physics point of view, the 'lowering rear = more rear weight' argument just isn't significant. I just did the maths for a 1200kg car with 2.5m wheelbase and a 'street car ish' center of gravity height of 350mm above the floor. Lowering the rear 20mm adds 1.3kg to the rear axle while removing 1.3 from the front. The weight distribution goes from 50% to 49.9%. I'm not saying this to ridicule your work, but rather that this could point to some measurement inaccuracies. Do you roll the car a few yards back and forth after lowering it before you put it back on the scales? Or do you lower while on the scales? If you don't, track width changes or wheelbase changes when the brakes are on, could cause odd side forces on the scales that perhaps influence the readings a bit. I'm just thinking out loud because you physically can't get more than a few kg difference and the physics are relatively simple so anything more than a couple kg points 99.9% to some errors in measuring and 0.01% to Isaac Newton being wrong... :-)

Its odd. Its says @0:40 500bhp and 2.3s which are stats for the Atom v8 but the car looks and sounds like the 3 with a supercharger. Perhaps very modified. But 2.3 really needs the sadev gearbox so I'm puzzled.

@@tcroft2165 it’s a 3, with a supercharger. It’s meant to be 310hp.

Michael morales there are 25 Atom 500 in the world and all of them are collectors items. You can get wings as an option on any Atom. They are mostly for looks though.

based on the noise it's a 2.0 SC

I have a Ariel Atom 3s which is a USA built with the wings. 365hp turbocharged

I could hear the supercharger for sure. Ah i didnt know the wings were an option for all models

Even with aero options you still want the mechanical side of the car to be setup properly aswell and not just drown your balance isues by piling on aero. That rear downforce would also fade away at lower speeds giving the driver more things to think about and factor instead of being able to thrust a well ballanced car.

The roll bar helps the car on turn-in... so yes it would, but it wouldn't solve the issue mid to exit of the corner.

Mandje Tichelaar You are correct

Was thinking the same. Stiffen the front. The car is not lacking turn in. In fact it turns in that quick that the rear cant follow. So stiffing the front would dull it down a bit and keep balance with the rear more. It would also prevent the nose to dive that deep under braking.

Yes, that could help but it's masking the base issue and wouldn't do much in the low speed corners, where he still has oversteer 👍

The 500 hp model has a front/rear wing, the lower models dont so that would be a great addition. Doesnt seem like this is the 500hp v8

Yes, usually a little oversteer is faster, but only a little otherwise it won't be optimum.

@@Driver61 ok! Makes sense. Otherwise it's a drift car 😆

If it was setup so oversteery the rears were always at the limit, but only using 80% of front grip, we wouldn't be going around the corner at the max speed possible.

Yeah, all the lads and lasses at Goodyear, firestone and pirelli love oversteering cars !

Or a stiffer at the front..

Correct. It has 310hp