Can You Use Dangerous Moves? 

First of all, great content as usual. Second of all, I'd like to offer some criticisms to your argument. Let me preface this by saying that I agree with almost everything you said, especially the part about leg locks. As you eluded to, ANY move can be dangerous when being applied TO or BY an amateur or someone who lacks control. The issue with the argument is some moves require more control than others. You went into an incredible amount of detail for each technique you referenced not because you felt like it, but because that is what's required to properly utilize those specific techniques. (heel hook & Kani Basami) I would argue that there are many techniques in grappling and martial arts in general that do not require the same level of control and therefore do not present the same level of danger. IE a paper cutter choke, or a guard sit. I challenge anyone to go into the same level of detail for a guard sit as you just did for the heel hook. It would be impractical or at the very least redundant to do so. The level of detail required to teach a move is indicative of the level of "control" required to "safely" perform the move. Therefore some moves can in fact be more dangerous than others. With this in mind, you performed a flying scissor against someone who not only is not the same level grappler as you (I'm also subbed to hard2hurt.... get good Icy Mike) but you did it out of nowhere, prompted only by the demand of "Do something cool"... It was in fact cool, and you did perform most of the move correctly AND with control like you mentioned. But high level move + low(er) level practitioner can often times = incorrect defense/counter and ultimately INJURY. You used a higher risk move in what most people can agree was not a high risk situation, which is probably why some people gave you flack over it. One more thing. The ways to fuck up Kani Basami are plentiful and you covered most of them expertly. Based off my own experience though, I think you forgot one (unless I missed it, and yes i love parentheses). While entering the technique from a distance you need to cover quite a bit of space. Especially with yorr 90 degree angle set up. This incentivizes one to launch the hips towards an opponent with a quickness. Against someone who you are already pushing backwards and may try to move unexpectedly to counter, this could cause your hips, top leg, or just your ass to collide with the knee. We see something similar in guard jumps when the hips come down on top of the knee and dislocate or damage ligaments of the victim. Anyway sorry for the long comment. I really did enjoy the video and agree with your sentiment but these are some things I thought were important to note. Maybe I will make a similar video about this at some point as well so thanks for the inspiration. Keep cranking out more vids like this!

Love the idea of letting go when you know you have it but they didn't tap. This is hard if you still have a lot of insecurity and ego.

"Do something cool!" -- Mike's famous last words.

Only thing you really missed, was the issue that not practicing a "dangerous skill" means you never learn how to defend against or minimize the injury from such skills. Whether it means knowing when to tap (heel hook) or how to properly handle the take down (Kani Basami), or just how to avoid the setups, without practice seeing and feeling it you will never develop the defensive reactions to protect yourself. Which of course adds to the cycle of being "too dangerous"

20 years ago when I was a fresh jiu-jitsu white belt I learned heel hooks. The school I went to had a sister school you could also train at. I was rolling with a brown belt and I managed to get a heel hook locked, or so I thought. I was easing the pressure on slowly but he refused to tap. Instead he proceeded to grab my ankle, clutch it to his chest, and violently twist it. Sprained my ankle and knee in one go. Couldn't walk for about 3 weeks. A few years later I was relating the story to some guys at my home gym. They asked some questions about the brown belt, and when I confirmed they said he was later kicked out of the school for being a bully to lower belts. After that experience I made it a point to do two things, always ease pressure on slowly to my opponent, and always tap when my opponent has the lock even if I can resist for a bit longer. The injury isn't worth it. I also like the bit about redundancy. In the firearms world you have the 4 basic safety rules. 1. Treat every gun as if loaded. 2. Don't point at anything you don't want to shoot. 3. Keep finger off trigger until ready to fire. 4. Know your target and surroundings. In order for someone to get hurt, all four rules have to be violated. Breaking one or even two isn't enough.

4:41 "Safety is found in redundancy." Words to live by!

Rip blank wall you shall be remembered

As usual, I appreciate this content. My gym let me go a little too hard in sparring and sometimes and I did hurt people. At least one person never came back. I feel like this sort of stuff and the way Icy Mike talks about ego could have prevented that sort of stuff while making me a quicker learner at the same time. Keep educating!

We trained the flying scissor a lot in capoeira. Called it a tesoura we did. Never did anyone get hurt when we trained it or tried to land it in the roda. Excellent video.

Sorry to hear about your knee. Im lucky to have a gym with great gym culture. I hope more gyms will focus on safety and control. Goes for any martial arts gym not just ones with submissions.

Neck cranks and slams are fun; with certain people. Good video.

Sorry to hear about the knee dude. That really sucks.

This is how I feel about Tani otoshi. Never seen anyone injured from it, because I've always been taught to do it the safe and correct way. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of DJJ schools teach people to lift that back leg up so that it's pressed against the opponent's calf or the back of their knee, rather than being placed on the floor cupping their opponents heel.

When I first started they let beginners do everything but it was a no gi gym. When I moved I went to a BJJ gym that has a no leg lock rule for white belts. Let's just say I did some stuff to get out of guards that would definitely result in leg locks just because I could.

That was very educational - I haven't understand to this point why scissor sweep is considering dangerous and didn't even have the idea that it can be done in way that can cause people to fall forward from it. On the other hand because of the way I was taught this move both at wrestling (as single leg counter) and at sambo (as standalone technique) I always thought about all those details, especially getting angle and "using mostly upper leg"*, as essential to this technique, so there is at least that. * - I mean tripping people over lower leg using higher one, so kind of circling motion, not "scissoring" one.

Your idea on control is one of the few things I'm 100% with you on.

Got here from Icy Mike. Your channel is great.

Love the scissors takedown. Safety is so important for competition. In the street no so much but the 90 degree makes sense regardless. 😎

Verry well thought through applies to more than just bjj ☺ my gym doesnt train leg locks and i try learn as much as i can outide of the gym through youtube like you said you did And one of the most important things ive learnt if your putting a submission on your training partner doesnt know is to be ready to let go before they roll further into it and injure themselves Ooh and if we do get a long video on heel hooks from any position i would defo watch ☺

Welcome back! I loved the video. I agree 100%. Moves must be taught early and with control.

Criminally underrated channel

I was already a fan of the channel, but this video made me respect and admire you even more. You're not only a good practicioner, but also a good educator. Rock on!

In judo many people are very scared of the tani otoshi/ valley drop, even when performed in a safe manner

Man heelhooks still fuckin spook me

Very good points, I will try doing what you said and will try to use control

This has been one of the most informative & interesting martial Arts videos ever made. I've been training for coming up on 2 decades & still learnt a lot from this video, if not better ways to openly articulate what I've intrinsically known already.

Music background really gets in the way

Its interesting point you make about heel hooks," in order to make it safer more people should have train it so that people can innovate on techniques." I wish we could also do this with traditional Martial arts also, take an ineffective art and change the way they do things to make it more practical and effective.

It’s a lack of knowledge on both ends. As the attacker, you don’t know when you’ve got it. As the defender, you don’t know when you’re not getting out. I started doing leg locks later in my BJJ training & quickly realized just what you said. They’re dangerous because people don’t understand them.

Beginners are canon fodder and if they die they should have stayed alive. -IU Judo Club

I think the move at 3:55 ish is sort of like a Victor's roll (at least that's what Gary Tonon calls it in his Shoot to Kill insteuctional) except you're not getting a leg inside so you don't land in the saddle. Really liked this video and the breakdown of the techniques!

Love the stuff Ypu can fix that bad knee bud. Ben Patrick. Knees over toes guy. Last night whilst rolling my partner landed full on my planted leg trying to keep my back as i stood up from turtle. Pain was horrible as my knee tried to buckle. Today, I have a very sore tibialis, but the improved strength in that muscle from his stuff saved my knee.

10:52 this is why I stopped going to the striking gym. Not only is there absolutely no regulation or guidance on how hard we spar, but the coach will watch and say nothing when people are shelled up for an entire round getting brain damage.

I’ve always had a unique idea as to why leg locks in general were so looked down upon. So when BJJ first started, the guard position was held to a almost mythical standard. It was the great conqueror of fighting off your back. But if you factor in leg locks, the guard becomes a very neutral position. What do you think?

Thank you the only way to make moves like the flying scissor more safe is to I don't know f****** train to use them (personally I like that takedown and doing it from a 90° angle shouldn't be has looked down upon)

I used to love kani basami. Haven’t been allowed to use it in forever :(

Sorry to hear about your knee if its still a problem you could try some knees over toes exercises there supposed to be verry good for knee injuries i think you cant find them on instagram and youtube.

Interesting! We do a lot of Flying Scissor in Silat competition. It's called 'Guntingan' (literally means Scissoring). Yet we usually do it without grabbing, just shooting.

8:45 Isn't the primary objective of any heel hook to rupture the ligaments of the knee? The knee is a bigger and more complex joint and the destruction of it will be much more catastrophic. Most jiu jitsu experts breaking down heel hooks say that it's supposed to be felt in the knee rather than the ankle

Say if person A wanted to do an incorrect flying scissor on B to injure them on purpose, how would person B avoid getting injured AND getting taken down by that move? I haven't seen too many counters on that move online. Do you just roll with it and get taken down? How would someone do that properly without getting a broken leg?

In a combat sport (like ADCC or MMA), a move that's allowed and can incapacitate your opponent isn't wrong.

Sadly, That was a cool wall😢. Regardless, any advice when facing Dagestani/ Chechen style grappling? That style just seems too dominant lol..

Oh, well, this answers the question I posted on the previous video of yours I watched about things bad martial artists say.

wtf bro, where's the batman shirt?

Question: I was taught to wrap the front leg around the opponent's upper body when doing the flying scissor and use that leg to better control the upper body. In my experience, that worked really well. What are your thoughts on that move? Are there any dangers I'm missing?

For the violence

Here's the Poolee shirt again XD

All these moves if practice correctly work fine

I think one distinction between dangerous and "safe moves" is what happens when executed poorly. If the move injures you opponent but still works its dangerous, if it does nothing then its safe. Sure you explain how these moves can be done safely but from your description the way they "fail" is doing more damage than you were aiming for not losing a fight

I always initiate heel hooks. Even in boxing matches.

Just do what Cung Le did and enter off a spinning back kick.

OOH RAH

Armchair Violence Vs Alcohol - Can Drunken Fist Martial Arts Actually Protect You?

Uhhhh difficult discussion with the Kani Basami. I am ok with the heel hook because you can dose the pressure you put on the leg. Kami basami/ szizor sweep on the other hand. Imagine having the option between crippling your opponent and Olympic gold medal. Because its a combustion based sport 9 out of 10 times (I think) the athlete will take the medal. Then imagine the gold medals being a local tournament. I think this is a case of the risk not outwaying the reward. Notthat it can be taught and applied safely but for the times it isn't applied safely it is devastate. Sorry for the hopefully constructive critique. Normally I agree with your points aber the szizor sweep idk man

Banning stuff rarely works

I hope to GOD no one tries scissor td on me during training. #1 i would hope to get out withour injuries #2. I am sorry to get expelled from academy because that would require severe backlash from my side.

Yeah let’s start practicing eye pokes 👁️ I’m just kidding please don’t.

Here's an honest question, I wonder if a "true combat school/gym" was put up, would anyone actually pay for it? Instead of MMA, it's just unarmed and inprovised weapon ambush training. Instead of training for a fight night, it's just learning how to ACTUALLY fight in real life combat situations. Like doing dry runs of someone going up to you and trying to stab you with a fake knife screaming about how you shouldn't have touched their girl. Or weekend retreats where you're just drinking and hanging out and an instructor will suddenly bust in the room and try to simulate a smash and grab of one of your mates. Sure there's still training to throw a jab, defend a takedown, general wrestling etc. But there will be a focus on application. It would probably be a really fun hobby.

When you say "every technique should be a white belt technique," I agree with the spirit of the statement but I think its missing something. A white belt who has never seen half guard before is not making good use of their time practicing a knee bar from it (not saying that is what you're arguing). Maybe the message should be "Every technique should be able to be taught safely to a white belt" or something catchier than that.

Kinda disagree with this video. Kani basami and heel hook are just dangerous. Teaching them to spazzy white belts is not going to make things better. The idea is that folks develop a certain amount of control and knowledge before they start to use dangerous moves in sparring. So teaching them and only allowing them later once students are advanced seems to make sense. Yes if the students all have perfect control, ego and awareness and tap in time then it would in theory be safe to train it. However not every student is a saint and not everything goes perfect. Also if heel hooks and kani basami are not allowed in your sport than it does not stifle innovation. You can't innovate in what is not allowed. Also at the end of the day during competition folks try to win. If they see an exposed heel for a second and they hesitate they might never get that moment again and lose the match. So in order to win it makes sense to put the heel hook on as fast as possible, which is clearly very dangerous.

Ok, so do this in Capoeira alot. For me it's a rubbish move I would never use in a real fight or MMA competition. Such a prone position, throw does little to the opponent except put you in an awful position on the floor. I can't see it being any more dangerous than other throws. A hip throw can put someone on their head. Just train properly kkkk.

Let's face facts, "Icy Mike" is an untalented little man. AND he's annoying...But you are the real deal