Capitalism will eat democracy -- unless we speak up | Yanis Varoufakis 

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No he's not. His party is left leaning and he himself is an economist. How does one who studied economics go left? Consider that

@@marios6147 The guy who INVENTED ECONOMICS was "left-leaning" by your standards.

@@flankspeed How is that possible? Could you elaborate?

@@marios6147 Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" is considered to be the world's first economics text. Within it, he advocates progressive taxation and social reform to create more equality, which he said would lead to more productivity. He ends by saying that the true wealth of a nation is to be found in its people.

And people who say they aren't greedy are extremely dangerous. That sort of denial is like a looming and pernicious shadow (yes, reference to Jung as well if you like)

BREXIT!!!!

they either dont do anything or they cover all their mistake up

@@DdraigGoch84 true

It is a great test of a government as well, Master Adjuster.

Have you actually been to Greece recently? It's all great theorising about socialist policy. However when you actually go to a country that relentlessly insists on electing socialists you see what the end result is - squalor. I'm in Athens right now - the place is an absolute dump with aging infrastructure and a dead economy. The only thing that is booming is tourism - literally nothing else.

@@joblakelisbon What are you even talking about, Greece has never elected any political party remotely close to socialistic policies. Syriza (2015-2018) was claiming to be that, but continued on the footsteps of all the previous governments.

@@joblakelisbon And that doesn't give you a clue? I live in Greece, the Conservatives are in Government , everything has been privitised, so you know, the free market being optimal. The islands are nice though, because Greece values tourists more that their constituency. But yeah, if only the sensible conservatives get in charge, hire loads of police and beat the crap out of protestors to make business happen, oh that's what's happening? and you don't like it? Yea, that's what he's talking about.

@@joblakelisbon when exactly has anyone socialist been elected in Greece? And don't say "Syriza" because it's clearly a party mostly of opportunists claiming to be socialists. The capitalists have killed Greece, both foreign and local, not socialists. It's also no wonder that fascism is on the rise in Greece too after so many years of liberal capitalism, they're one and the same, just in different economic conditions.

@@joblakelisbon The irony writes itself. It is you who doesn't know anything about Greece it seems.

ruya x, why “nine”? Teşekkür ederim 😊

@@MarianDouglasUngaro no idea 😂😂😂

@@MarianDouglasUngaro because the 10th accepts them with open arms

Well, to be fair, nobody kicked me out, I escaped myself to save me. Hehehe.

@pratik mohite I certainly do not, but got the point :D

12

He talks in riddles. A long string of non sequiturs.

Idk though he makes me feel too hopeful in place of guilt and fear. 🇬🇧

@@777jones so you just don’t understand him lmao

+Alex Wilson No, he isn't.

+Future Ruler of Ukraine Yes he is.

+Ricardo Toureiro he suffered one of the nastiest character assasinations in recent history! Granted he is a bit of a "dreamer" like not all his positions or ideas are gonna be carried out but he is nevertheless a economic professor he knows that good markets work but that they sometimes need adjustments

+Indal No, he really isn't. Hitler achieved power almost exclusively through charisma or scare tactics. How many Germans do you think took the time to read Mein Kampf, or actually thought about what the consequences of their blind support? Supporting a politician based off of how they "come across" is apart of the sole flaw of democracy; we let everyone vote, including the morons. It's how Hitler got into power, and it's how shallow ideologues like Trump and Clinton are getting into power now.

+Xadem I fully agree. (although, the notion that someone would vote for someone like trump by how they come across is a bit baffling) What I meant is how I personally perceive him knowing of his background with Valve and hearing what he actually says, and how that contrasts with a lot of the information that goes around and leads people to attack people like him, even comparing him to Hitler in this typically insane RU-vid comment thread...

The US government, by law, is supposed to REGULATE corporations when they issue the charters to do business. Instead, we have corporations regulating government/s.

+Jeff Apellido How could they if he was forced to do what Troika told him to?

+maggit that why he quited and left + troika didnt want him there anyway :/

+Jeff Apellido Greece collapsed because politicians bought votes with government freebies. Just like every other socialist country.

+Jeff Apellido Just as it is shallow and lazy not to provide any reason why his policies were good and solely base your argument on the fact that he was "the new guy". He was voted in by the same idiots that have voted for bigger government in the years before him, namely the Greek citizens, there is nothing new about him.

+Jeff Apellido My opinion on this guy is he completely failed to explain himself. That and the one fact he said was the EU was the largest economy. Which is either euro eccentricity or stupidity. In any event he needs to explain himself much better.

@CrniWuk Exactly, and it's sadly all too common especially among those who are against mass immigration and Islamisation of Europe (they think all that is the fault of the left and "commies"), otherwise a very worthy cause that everyone regarding themselves as European should support.

Too many , to many is totally diferent

A free market gets confused with freedom itself.

Sadly, they know precious little about neither.

@@williamwells835 Exactly! Equality ( Democracy ) is totally companionable with Republican Government.

Sometimes confused after thinking....ready to do more thinking. Always think for the All Good.

Na you all are just confused but keep trying though... you might get there. prob not though... honestly, you all might as stop while you are ahead

If you're confused, you're not smart enough, bcuz only dumb people get confused.

@@mrbust999 check your ego...

Just because you're confused, doesn't mean you're thinking...

I increasingly think that online debates have no fruits whatsoever. People engage in online debate with strangers only to take part in an intellectual antagonistic fight. I find it really interesting that by showing yourself available for debate, no one came to debate! Where are the critics? Where are the arguments they bring for the rational debate? Seem to be a lot of them around here in other comments...

I had nothing to debate you on.. but I love the spirit. So I just upvoted you. Cheers

I don't know if you are actually greek, but this is 100% true. Idiot means private businessman in modern greek. And I think this word and the way its meaning evolved, is a great example of nomen est omen... The person who only looks after his own interest is indeed shortsighted... For harming the community will eventually harm him.

@@konstantinapapaioannou4306 Sadly, it takes a great deal of intelligence and courage, to admit to oneself, that giving one to society, and getting 2 or 3 back, really works... It´s actually better than the Wall Street (Sofokleous str. ;-) Kai epishs: Geia sou patrida ;-)

Democracy is the people making the laws by referendum - the people being well informed before voting. Autocracy is keeping people in the dark - making certain people are misinformed and making laws to keep them in line.

How are we too incompetent for democracy when the current undemocratic capitalist system incentives and empowers people to behave selfish and ruthlessly in the economic sphere.

@@holypaladin334: I don't know why you believe "we" are too incompetent to practice democracy? Ask yourself, are you too incompetent? The indication that you are thinking and asking this very question tells me otherwise. There are some people that are incompetent to govern, in fact most people in government have no understanding on managing a country and the ones that do, manipulate the system to serve themselves. Our laws are what determines whether we practice democracy or autocracy. The latter is what Canada and the USA practice because our leaders practice dictatorship while posing as a democracy. Direct Democracy takes the power of law-making out of the hands of government and places that responsibility in the hands of the voting public via referendum. General consensus determines whether a proposed law will be accepted or rejected. This is democracy. Making our laws by mandate and by a handful of cronies in parliament who will do the bidding of the party's leader emulates dictatorship as practiced under a monarchy. And that is what we practice. This system is rife with corruption and serves the few while burdening the many. We need to get rid of this corrupt political system that is laden with nepotism and cronyism, making the wealthy richer and the working class poor to serve the rulers.

*unlike most politicians, he is still the head of DiEM25. If you want you can join DiEM25 too it is global

No you didn't lol. Quit lying.

Makarov Kid: Your unsubstantiated desires bear not effect on the reality of the world.

@Adrian Finn Small business mate.

"once" Didn't turn out so well in the long term, did it? 😂

@@James-kq4vj Another fan of slave labour.

. . .We need a capitalist economy of , by, and for the people as well as a government thereof. The concept of "checks and balances" should be applied towards all earthly influences and entities, financial as well as political.

I like the fact that Yanis is trying to put forward a vision, he is solution-oriented! I am now part of the DIEM25 movement.

@@williamwells835 capitalism is literally undemocratic and can never be "by and for the people." It is for CAPITAL, the only purpose is to make profits by exploiting the surplus value created by the majority of society (workers) and their labor. The only solution isnt social democracy which is just capitalism with extra crumbs for the poor, but a socialized worker owned economy, that switches from profit oriented goals to fulfilling the needs of the society it is producing for.

@@alanwatts797 Thankyou for that precise definition.

@@alanwatts797 My main objection regarding "capitalism" is all the hucksterism that goes on. We need to stimy commercial 'free speech'.

Well generally ig, but the level of thought required to come to his conclusion of what an ideal world and methods of getting there would be doesn’t require too much thought beyond basic moralism and uncertainty/fear of radical change.

@Snappingturtle 267 LOL, you've reinforced your echo chamber with extra strength.

@Snappingturtle 267 You know this because of your extensive research into the subject, surely.

@Snappingturtle 267 Source?

@Snappingturtle 267 "Do your own research." If you were confident in your beliefs and invested in upholding your assertion you would provide evidence. This is your opportunity.

WHYYYY? Why can’t these propagandists (or ignorants) not comprehend that capitalism did not cause ANY of this!!! Corporations are simply tools of the bankers and secret societies that JFK spoke of publicly before he was Axed. They use govt to favor cronies while suffocating their competition through the highest tax rate in the world which doesn’t effect the cronies because they have they profits in banksters off shore tax havens, and regulations and hostile policies on business. While at the same time our govt run education system and crony corporate college scam will not teach anyone how to live in a real capitalist system, no entrepreneurship education, no learning how to grow food, or monetary education or any real history. There’s so much more but we are under immense propaganda esp from msm. Karl Marx was propped up by the bankers and the result was Govt murdering well over 100 million of its own people in the last 100 yrs. that’s why this guy even says he’s confused. Nobody explained that capitalism can’t exist with the manipulation of the markets, currency, interest rates, inflation, stock market, and society in general.

I feel like we wait until people are dying to make necessary changes. After 9/11 we went to war with 8 countries. We are having a 9/11 everyday now and nothing is really being done about it.

If I was American, US citizen, I'd be packing my s*** by now and looking for a nice place that accepts immigrants or refugees from map. ...Because it's a country on a brink of collapse, seriously... Even liberals are reacting without knowing what to do but just losing their s***s over some fake identy issue or something similar non-issue without much real world importance, but allows judgement. Conservatives... Well we all know without going too much details wtf is going with them, but like seriously wtf is going on with the conservatives in US? President doesn't even speak of humans or citizens of USA anymore when he's referring over half of population of the country he's president of... Yikes, gtfo from there guys. Unless you're rightwing conservative, don't leave anywhere in that case. Alright chief? When things begin happening, it can escalate fast and who is ready to bet Trump haven't managed to divide and conquer the armed forces? There will be violence, mass graves and camps, Biden won't help you because he can't, sorry. This Pandoras Box is open, emotional investments for fascism has been made. Get the f*** out from there, or if that's not available option (doubt you get this much from other Europeans but:) arm yourselves. You have the right, please use it...

Exactly because every time something like that happens, we don't really investigate it. However, when he mentioned it, it's all I can think about.

😂😂😂

In so many ways, I agree

Brilliant imagery.

And we are having their faeces rubbed in our faces - to extend the metaphor a bit..

I think I agree. Things could change maybe if the capitalist mess up which seems kind of probable. The next time we need a bailout it might not happen and then what? Capitalism will take a hit.

Dude is speaking truth. I also appreciate the bit of Q& A. different for TED. Hayek, Marx and Keynes- (and some indigenous thinking, bio-regionalism and a lil' Buckminster Fuller to get to the Star trek thing would help too) Thanks @Aydn of Astro-Action.

Thank you!

That was ending with anti speculating global , bretton woods united news video on RU-vid

@@jamesmoylan2861 ?

And artificial consumer demand

+Jean-Luc Dushimiye Because he is for huge government that controls means of production and will go deeper into 69 with big corporations - CORPORATIONISM FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!!!! LET'S ALL GET DIRT POOR LIKE VENEZUELA WITH BERNIE!!!!

This is not communism, its democratic socialism. Look at Switzerland etc.

+NoName NoFame you are an idiot if you think he is anything like a communist

Lol

Bernie is an idiot old guy that believes everything can be free.

I liked this guy when he first came on the scene. Then I was like get off your high horse dude, nobody has all the answers. Now I am wondering if he might in fact have all the answers.

@@Will_Moffett Many people are put off by his manner, but his message is sound.

@@Will_Moffett he doesn't give you all the answers, he simply tries to help us see what's going on currently and historically and hopefully this will help us make decisions and take actions to a better future

He is a clown, try searching him, deeper than the propaganda.

You said something so true. Good for the conversation. Can we stop capitalists? No.

look up hte justice democrats in the US.

In that case you should join DiEM25 it is a global movement

Modern day Greece has nothing to do with ancient Greece

Ah this guy is greek. That explains a lot

@@jacoblehrer4198 Nothing? lol, idiot. Anyway, it's romantic speaking by Gopnic, you muppet. Varoufakis is fantastic

@@jacoblehrer4198 it's the same country. Open a book sometime

@@krispi1481 you should also check up what kind of Democracy existed in Ancient Greece and how long it survived.

The USA is why you are able to type that ignorant statement.

@@danieldoucet8687 You got that right my friend!

@@danieldoucet8687 The USA is still worth saving! He is right about Corporate control of our government though. Business MUST be Regulated, and the people must be the ones to do it. Corporations have no body to jail or soul to damn, Corporations are NOT PEOPLE ! ( that law and precedent MUST change )

There really is only capitalism and the varieties of its corruption, of which socialism and corporatism are two extremes. Corporatism is what he is referring to, not capitalism. Socialism would be insanity, so the world needs to work within capitalism to find the solution.

@@Knaeben Yes, the crony capitalism that currently exists in the U.S. has got to be reigned in, and socialism is NOT the answer folks!!

:p

Amen brother.

@Michalis Spentzopoulos well to be honest you are talking about 5 or 50 guys in DEI, where as he is talking in a system change for all. The same thing said about the greedy guys in DEI's union can be said about those build the highways in the country. Proping costs to 10x the normal, those who were (and probably those who are) building the metro in Thessaloniki, all the shiplines that automatically get 0% taxes but make huge profits... we can go on and find individual or group cases where sb is making greedy and crazy personal gains, but he is not talking on a personal level. AND yes what he is talking about is theoretical, but he is getting it close to practical. and also you need to start somewhere *btw the constanlty money-hungry DEI has to problems that makes it power hungry 1- it is designed to provide power as a human right to possibly lowest prices (which isnt working), a system that through many different ways has been brocken for a long time and is only going down 2-comparing to many other countries that try to run a similar system Greece has too many islands and mountains. which makes it VERY costly to maintain and build up, and based on the point above and how brocken it is it becomes money hungry But i can tell, i curretnly dont live in greece. where i live there are 3 private energy companies and no public one. hte private companies love to make money from everyday use of the already built system and since they operate it they have to maintain it. but that goes only for small problems. When a natural disaster happens for example and there is a huge project needed afterwards they disappear , It suddenly is the goverments job to rebuild everything and that means the taxpayer paying for it the same way we are in greece, small difference is that here they make profits in between, and those profits do not go back in when there is a problem. in greece all money made go back in this system. *and yes i do not agree with adding all those other costs in the enrgy bill (municipal, tv, etc)

The bigest Problem I always see here is, that nobody asked the hard question. Should everyone have the right to vote? The answer from everyone would be yes. Ask it a bit different. Should everyone have the right to vote on things they know nothing about? The answer should be no. And at my opinion the combination ot these two things should always be considered for democracy as well. You should only let people vote who have showed (maybe through previous Test) that they know what they are voting for, including consequenses! There is no reason to do things that are clearly bad for humanty but do them anyway because people want it. I am talking about things where an opinion doesnt matter because there is scientific proof or even natural laws. And people proof it again and again that they are to stupid to let them vote. Why should you let somebody vote for important things if he still believes the earth is flat? Why should you? You wouldnt let your child decide where to invest your money if it had the choice between Candy, Toys, education, Entertainment or healthy food. There is more than one good choice, but most of them will take the choice for a non future friendly thing they can enjoy now. Thats how most of humanty works... Sadly

He is also in the unfortunate position that, unlike most thinkers of his kind, he has actually enacted his own ideas in the real world. How did that go?

Mao was a post modernist thinker, rooted in revolution for the ideal utopian country, rooted in the arts, culture, poetry... The CCP was a resistance group against the facists in China, Malaysia, SE Asia and Europe... They were forced to go underground, manywere caught, tortured and killed... Didn't the British shoot more than 400 students protesting against the unfair Paris Treaty in which the Europeans conceded to Japan chunks of China? Mao 's Communist group fought and won the wars against foreign aggressions and genocides without arms or weapons. Medicine or money. MAO was A genius who savedand united a highly independent thinking Chinese. He was a great strategist but he was so vilified that we really don't know the true Mao anymore.

@Anne T Huh I remember Mao for being the fuckpig who killed tens of millions. Suppose I'm just a fascist

Marx was a very evil person.

@@tgr5772 How?

@@starman275 He advocated violent revolution.

@@starman275 And his ideas were more deadly than all religious wars combined...

@@tgr5772 Soviet Union did spread Communism under violent wars to some countries, but so did USA. Usa waged more wars than Soviet Union. To spread their 'freedom'. Freedom which is only for the richest.

This change requires UNITY of the working classes globally.

Yeah i wish it was more coherent. Lots of very interesting subjects touched on, but it was kinda going all over the place, seemed almost like it was spoken completely off the cuff.

+DahBjorn His solution was democratization of enterprises, not letting the traditional owners of owning all capital for themselves and the other solution was a fund to promote technologies (like medical and green energy for poor countries) by means of a cryptocurrency where each country would fund a sum that's proportional to their trade deficit (so if they import more but export less, they would fund more than the traditional agreed sum).

+DahBjorn He wants to use democracy to steal money from those who have it and give it to politicians to do with it what they will. He's simply doubling down on the current system of collapse. Also, he didn't identify the problem with capitalism. There isn't any capitalism so long as there is government that can claim to own all the money and land. He's purposefully incoherent or an ignoramus - probably the latter. He threw around a lot of buzzwords, misrepresentations, and bigotry. He's a politician..

+ZombieX13 is this really all you got from this talk? You probably didn't even know half the people he named in it..

"He wants to use democracy to steal money from those who have it and give it to politicians to do with it what they will." Um, this is being done now. Has been for a long time under our capitalist system. I think you meant to say, "He wants to stop capitalists from stealing money...."

same

+ciao wutang i know right... came here just to see people tear him a new one

+ciao wutang No, stop eating popcorn, this is really important. Are you a Matrix guy or a Star Trek guy? :-)

+Lone Wolf More like, came here to see lots of retarded people try to connect him to the Greek economic crisis, regardless of the fact that happened years before he became minister of finance. Those pesky facts.

+apocalypseap Don't let facts get in the way of a pointing finger.

Marxists?

+RyanGenX2 Obviously people don't know him at all but still talk about him and "how he ruined Greece", zzz

i am A gummy

The people are sheep. Four legs good two legs bad meehhh

No one knows what Valve is.

The system was stubborn because Tsipras became corrupted, as it is his nature. Varoufakis was wasted. He could have done a lot of good.

+haxamin Because most people are idiots.Simple as that

+haxamin it's because most of the people probably didn't even watch the video since their "i have to defend capitalism blindly"-reflex-mode is activated

+haxamin people didn't understand, or even watch the video.

+haxamin He is a socialist and his solution is for government to use money irresponsibly. Do you even know who this guy is?

smh

Reformism

@Carlos Polanco No, you are dumb asf.

NO! They are NOT uninformed. They're liars and they know what they're doing!

Just remember the Soviet Union was technically a democracy.

Of course he was, he is a threat to the economic influence on the politicalsphere. He is challenging the status quo.

Yep.

+jay Cruz no, it got kept alive. However "true" a real world implementation can be.

+jay Cruz True, but "too big to fail" is caused 100% by government. Without government bailouts, everything that does not satisfy customers, will fail.

+mastablasta9x Exactly. It's not capitalism that creates big monopolies, but the government. 1) Make people scared of capitalism and fool into thinking that you need to raise taxes for corporations. 2) High taxes make it impossible for small business to enter the market and compete. 3) Since there is no competition give bailouts to only companies that provide goods and services. 4) Watch western civilization go to ruins.

+jay Cruz There is no "true capitalism". There might be minor differences between implementations of Capitalism, but in the end they all end up exploiting laborers and allowing the bourgeoisie to hoard immense power.

+WolfBlaz No they do not. Capitalism _is_ "corporatism". If you think you can separate the two you have not understood how capitalism works in practice.

+WolfBlaz Yes, technically they are different. But capitalism *always* leads to corporatism. Its a natural progression, since that's how the incentive structure is set up.

+WolfBlaz one is an economical model, the other a political one. But since Democracy and Communism are well known enemies, even though they also aren't the same, it's fair to say that "talking without knowing" is very common these days.... but to be fair. If there's an economical model and a political model that were made to be used together, capitalism and corporatism is just that. It's basically mating the concept of natural selection with money....

+killedbyLife Please take 15min and read about corporatism and capitalism and then compare. There does exist corporatism in capitalism, but that does not mean that we should abolish capitalism, but abolish corporatism.

WolfBlaz I know what they are and your argument is just the same old non-argument capitalist apologist always bring up. The fact still stands: capitalism cannot be separated from "corporatism" now matter how much you want it to. As others has pointed out for you: capitalism inevitably leads to what you call "corporatism". Hence they are in essence the same - a later stage of capitalism. Or do you think society stands still and never change? You think you can just set up your market and basic rules of private property and then everything just runs fine and stays the same in a perfectly balanced manner? Maybe you should take a bit more than 15 minutes to study basically every field of science there is?

This. People of common sense (armed with patience and objectivity) must try to awaken as many others as possible in the next year or two, and then it's rebellion time... or, considering how much the Earth struggles and how worse it gets with time, we'll all be dead in the next ~20 years, max (I feel generous atm) *thanks to the "clever" rich and all the shortsighted ppl who support this system which promotes the vicious cycle of greed and stupidity*.

Lol! That's why we are all screwed up: fast solution, short-term vision. You'll never learn.

@@tarekben5524 At this point, I would nearly be OK with the technique of, 'Ready Fire Aim!' LOL No failures only lessons right! (not suggesting any violence here by the way). I mean it's already been half a decade since this talk and the biggest monopolies are still more powerful than most countries and are now even beyond the power of the governments of the countries they were formed in. Not only that, the working class are paying over ten times the amount of tax they are too! A lot is wrong that could be fixed in a moment. Actually in my comment, I was kinda having a go at the way corporations, governments and bureaucracies move so slowly it's barely any change at all. You know; a year playing the blame-game, a couple of years for an inquiry, few more years for a royal commission and another year for debate over funding, etc. etc. Anyway, wanting a solution fast, isn't exactly the same as fast solution and it definitely doesn't mean it has to be a short-term one either. But seriously, other than criticizing Me for wanting change sooner, rather than later, do You have any constructive ideas on how We could make things more equitable for All?

@@Drew_Hurst Don't consume the products of big corporations and help create monopolies

For the most part I agree, but like Chompsky said the people can always take it back when they finally get fed up enough to rebel and rebuild!

@@michaelsparks350 well, that is what the ever increasing police state is for.

@Janet Masiello capitalist production is theft

@Janet Masiello no it's people that can do math

@Janet Masiello Capitalism ( Property is Theft ) READ BOOKS, start by Proudhon. When you fence something that belongs to everybody and calls it your own, that is theft. When the people take it back is call JUSTICE = DEMOCRACY = SOCIALISM. Read!!! Feed your head!!!

A philosopher

Yup. Thanks.

It is not upon the capitalists or oligarchs to care. While economic power can be turned into votes, there is no automatism and absolutism in this. It is upon us to break open the world views supported by the profiteers of capitalism and use elections against these odds to bring those to power who desire to dissolve economic power itself.

Midnattsol - Agree. You are completely correct, the psychopathic Oligarchs have no reason whatsoever to be obliged to think twice about their actions, they have no ethical duty as far as they are concerned, but therein lies the difference, some of us have ethics, psychopaths have none! How humanity deals with that serious problem is the difference between the human race surviving or not. Once the psychopaths have destroyed 6.6 billion people, the only people they can come for is themselves, and they will do it because they are psychopaths. Bye bye human race!

@L N paranoid much?

Corporations being accountable to the community is the key to everything. If the economy was democratic we wouldn't be harming the environment. We live in the environment, that's crazy!

@Snappingturtle 267 Then why doesn't a business owner do everything themselves? Because they literally can't, they NEED workers as much as the workers in your case need them. As much as you want to paint a start-up as a one person show it simply is not. There is also room in worker coops for CEO-type figures, directors, managers, etc who are paid more (but not 20-200x more). Worker coops can be started by the workers as well, there is nothing that says they have to take it over from a capitalist, so the pretense to your comment is false. To write my entire comment off as pure insanity is also just intellectually dishonest.

The everyday worker can do nothing but tighten the screw.

Not to be too facile, I hope, but who stops you from organising a worker's cooperative in our current society? Nobody so far as I can see. It's just that those with innovations tend to want to make money and to have a lot more than the rest of those involved in the process, so they go for the usual corporate route. You do have some shining examples of workers' cooperatives, I know there's a brewery in Canada which works this way and I think Michael Moore covered a workers cooperative somewhere in the U.S.

That's communism lmao

Workers should get a share, that's a great business model. But companies also can raise money from investors, that's quite reasonable. The only problem about that is the one you point out -- short term vs long term thinking. Now if investors REALLY want to make big money, they might want to follow Buffet's strategy: invest in well run companies whose business you understand, and hold for the long term. That's his 'secret,' which he shares with everyone. The one type of investing that might not make any sense at all is that nanosecond trading business. It's also unfairly run. Not all 'investing' is legit but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

@@nmarbletoe8210 The idea is to limit outside influence which might not be concerned about well being of the company. If the staff wants to have a brighter future they have to ameliorate their performance, optimize their procedures and present a product that satisfy the need of their clients.

@@cheblack677 That's a good idea. I really think vast majority of staff want to do a really good job. The culture of the companies matters a lot. Management everywhere needs to read W.E. Deming's work on quality control because the way it's done, it often backfires and makes people unhappy/ less productive. Investors should think about the Buffet model, because it's long term good for companies. If workers own the company that's even more... organic.

if the worker need money to whom will he sell his stock ?

CEO's make ridiculous amounts of money and pirks, in the USA compared to other countries.

We haven't had true Marxists get into power to test his[Marx] solutions. In the cases of the USSR and China and Cuba, they were authoritarian regimes (this is why they are labeled communism and socialism, and not 'Marxism' countries) that used the words of Marx to gain power but never actually implemented Marx's ideas once in power. Marx never mentions government in any of his works. No governments seizes the means of production, or any of that. He advocated removing the capitalist owner of individual companies, and giving that ownership the the employees of that company. All the USSR, China and Cuba did was replace the capitalist owner with a government representative which did not give any more power to the labor in those countries than they had prior. Everyone is the boss and the worker. In this scenario, all the labor votes on wages, investments, and all other business matters so that the surpluses of labor are fairly distributed to all the labor, not just the owner/capitalist. Don't need government for that.

Adrian Finn That's up to workers to decide. Of course everyone wouldn't be compensated exactly the same, I doubt people would decide to do that. But the immense inequality that we have today wouldn't be acceptable either. Workers aren't stupid, they can decide how to run their own lives.

Adrian Finn A worker cooperative, or a democratic workplace doesn't mean all the workers necessarily have to make all administrative decisions together. They can appoint experts in administration or finance to help run those aspects of the business. The point is that it's up to them to decide, and usually that's a route that's taken. But at the end of the day the workers sit on the board of directors, they decide how profits are shared, and they aren't subjected to the whims of a corporate elite which doesn't have their interests at heart.

Adrian Finn I think the idea of voting with your wallet or with your feet works in principle, but not in reality. Especially not in a world where consolidation has led to enormous corporations running almost entire sectors of the economy. Stagnant wages mixed with rising prices over the last 40 years also inhibit consumer choice. I think the short answer to your question about corruption is simply to expand democracy. More democracy in our economy is probably the best way to hold executives accountable and to avoid corruption in general. If you're interested, I'd highly recommend checking out Richard D. Wolff. He's an economist at the New School who talks about this kind of stuff. He's got plenty of stuff on youtube, and he's easy to understand for non-economists like me.

Adrian Finn I think we're headed towards monopolies in many sectors of our economy. Some of these companies are effectively monopolies already because others can't really compete with them. And no problem :)

They own the left and right . it was their idea. Sorry. Its beyond capitalism.

Falling demand is quite concerning, there's a video by a hedge fund billionaire, of all people haha, about the dangers this sort of soaring inequality brings to the system overall; I forget his name, but it's called The Pitchforks are Coming.

This is also the argument for Universal Basic Income btw. I highly recommend The War on Normal People by Andrew Yang is you want to better understand both the impact of automation on jobs and how UBI would solve the demand issues you described

They 'mean' to enslave us - and that is 'mean' - I'm keen on this *R > G* analysis - and will gladly contribute to the coming destabilisation - big time - as it has ruined my business - that had 10,000 customers in every sector - now a stray cat sleeps in my in tray and the phones - which were 9 now 1 - -don't- doesn't ring all week

There will always be new and ever expanding job markets to account for the menial labor jobs

Not when every possible human task can be completed by a machine. At that point, either the machines will subjugate us as they march towards godhood, or we'll exist along side them doing our own thing. Talking, eating, partying.

Without work or purpose, we would lose all drive to exist at all. If machines replace us at every possible human task, we would become a collective of pathetic, lethargic slumps and go extinct within a generation. See also : The movie Wall-E.

@@Taunic And yet we see that this is not happening, and people are getting increasingly replaced by machines, without enough new job prospects being created to replace the old ones.

Democratic freemarket in action.