Champion 100520 + Motor Snokel + Natural Gas = THE ULTIMATE BUDGET FULL HOME BACKUP GENERATOR? 

Thanks!

What app is this? do you have a soft start? Hard start on AC?

Glad this was helpful for you! Hope you are able to work out your install!

Yeah - the sense app is great! Really helped with sizing our my generator. Thanks for watching buddy!

Yep........He still need to build A Generator Shed from the Weather and Carbon monoxide poison Away from the House 🏡

Thank you! I would love to do solar at some point! Being able to be 100% off grid and energy independent is a dream of mine. My wishlist setup is a 7kW solar system with a 10-20kWh battery. I think that could meet my energy usage needs completely. Unfortunately, that setup costs around $30k. I'm hoping battery and solar prices go down more in the coming years. If I do end up getting solar, I will sure document my process. Thanks for the comments and suggestion! ❤

@@jonathanDIYs YOU CAN GO DIY AND BUY YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT TO SET UP BUT IT TAKES TIME , MONEY , EFFORT AND SOME ELECTRICAL KNOWLEDGE WITHOUT THE MIDDLE MAN TO GET IT LIKE YOU WANT IT . CHECK OUT MY DIY SOLAR VIDEOS , HIT LIKE , LEAVE A COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY . SPRING STORMS & SUMMER HURRICANE SEASON ARE APPROACHING AND WE PREPPERS MUST GET READY . MAY THE SOLAR BE WITH YOU .🤗🤗

Thank you. I don't think I have the proper testing equipment (like a bunch of space heaters) to apply incremental load up to the max out point, but that would be a cool idea. I got the 80' of cord for approximately $200 back in 2021. Prices keep jumping up rapidly.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I wish I had an oscilloscope. Was yours too expensive? I'd be interested in getting one and shooting a video for that if it isn't too expensive. Thanks again for the kind words!

I fortunately was able to meet all my power needs even with the long distance between the generator and the NG supply. Someday, I might do a comparison video between a long hose and a short hose. The only thing I need is some reliable way to put constant load and ramp it up in incrementally so I can accurately measure if there are actual differences in power between the hose lengths. Thanks for commenting!

Thanks! I highly recommend the transfer switch. I was able to set mine up myself for about $200-300 or you can get an electrician to do it for about $500-1000. It's actually pretty straight forward and simple, but I do know I'm more of the adventurous type. If you ever have any questions, I'd be happy to share more details.

A transfer switch is the way to go. Especially an automatic transfer switch that is wired to remote start the generator. That way, if the power goes out while you are away from home, your generator will start and keep your refrigerator and freezer running. However, an automatic transfer switch and remote start setup is more expensive to buy and install.

Awesome! Hope you can get everything running in your house with it!

Yeah, it won’t run everything, just the critical loads (furnace fans and fridges during the winter).

Looks like I am also getting 4900 to 5000 watts. I was expecting closer to 5500. I am wondering if it’s more of a limitation of the conversion kit (snorkel itself) or the generator. I have a 35ft 3/4 hose with 2PSI and a step down regulator to 7-11” of WC. I don’t believe it’s your gas supply, I believe it’s generator or snorkel limiting. Keep in mind all that gas we are supplying in the line has to go through that tiny little hose that motor snorkel provides and then has to go through the tiny Venturi on the carb as well.

hi Joe, that's a pretty cool setup. How often do you get blackouts in your area? I've kept my generator off at night during blackouts, but having a smaller, quieter backup solutions seems like a great idea.

@@jonathanDIYs I live in East Texas so the weathers not too bad. We lose power about once a year. I did lose power for 3 days during the bad cold/snow storm, that's what led to this. Wasn't gonna go through that again.

@@joehortman832 Same here. 2 days no power, was going to be ready next time... I had it "good", there were some people out of power for a full week in central Texas.

Hi Scott, I did add an easy start to my AC system - you can check that video out here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2_VcUyg5V7w.html. I saw my starting amps down from 80s to 30s as well. Thanks for commenting!

​@@jonathanDIYsBro......I just Uploaded my Final Demo and Show everyone How I built my Ply-wood muffler silencer.. .if you want to See

@@Honestandtruth great!

Hi @CajunCoding - thanks for commenting. I got the hoses from a surplus supplies store on ebay. I don't think there is any more in stock right now, but if you put a saved search in ebay and enable email alerts, you probably could snag one within a few weeks or months. Here's the search terms I used: "mb sturgis 3/4", "3/4 natural gas hose", "3/4 ng hose", "3/4 propane hose", "accuflex 3/4 hose" Sometimes when people are listing it, they only list the model number or the brand and not that it is for natural gas or a propane hose, so the specific keywords sometimes help you find hidden gems. I think that's how I got the hoses for half the regular price. Good luck getting some yourself! I think a hose is a smart idea for the few times that you would need it. :)

Hi Roy, thanks for commenting! From my research, I believe it has more to do with engine characteristics than orifice size. Natural gas has a higher octane rating (it requires more compression to burn efficiently) than gasoline. Gasoline is usually around 87 while natural gas is 130 octane. Gasoline engines are usually tuned to provide a compression ratio of 8:1 - 12:1 while Natural gas burns most efficiently at compression ratios from 13:1-14:1. I think it is these differences that reduce the power when switching from gasoline to NG. This is where the 10-20% lower HP comes into play and subsequent lower wattage produced. Sources if you're interested in reading more: grenergy-us.com/pages/q-a-i-was-told-propane-and-natural-gas-produces-less-power-than-gasoline-is-this-true www.gason.eu/documents/get_doc/714#:~:text=Finally%2C%20CNG%20has%20a%20high,path%20to%20higher%20thermal%20efficiency.

@@jonathanDIYs Thanks for the explanation and references!

Hi Bill, Good question! I generally didn't have any load balancing issues in the house circuits. My base electricity usage at the house was around 700 watts. I measured around 200-300 watts on L1 and 300-400 watts on L2. This amount of load was trivial. The oven and HVAC drew power on both L1 and L2 so that was balanced too. The only exception to balanced load was the microwave which put 1,800 watts on a single leg. Thanks for commenting and for this question!

Thanks for your comments! I already have a soft start for my AC. I have a video where I set that up. Voltage and frequency seems to stay pretty constant. With the inverter type generator, it seems to either be correct or turn itself off. I didn't seem to notice much sag.

My connector and wire is rated for 30 amps so I got a 30 amp breaker to match and properly protect the connector or wire from overheating. Thanks for commenting and thanks for your question!

My hose is 80ft if I can remember correctly. I cover all the calculations and length in the video.

How many ton AC unit do you have? If it's small enough, you definitely can run it off a portable generator!

That's awesome! I'm in Round Rock myself.

Honestly, living in Texas... I set up trifuel and not convert solely to NG because I don't really trust that I'll have NG when I need it. The freeze in 2021, NG was also insufficient - it wasn't even enough to run my tankless water heater as the power came back on. Unfortunately, the power plants here mostly run NG. When there is not enough power in Texas, chances are it could be NG shortage as well. I will be switching between propane, NG and gasoline when the power goes out. If I had more land, I definitely would be considering to have my own propane tank buried in the backyard. My emergency setup consists of a 20 pound propane tank, 10 gallons of gasoline and the natural gas connection that I show. For an extended outage, if there wasn't NG, I would probably ration out the generator usage to 4-6 hours a day. I think I can get it to last a week. Gotta work with what you have. :)

@@jonathanDIYs Jealous, here in Michigan we are single digits and below 0 at night, my furnace is running a lot right now seems as soon as it shuts off a few minutes later it’s right back on. I want to run a NG generator someday but my meter is in front of the house and I back feed through my garage all the way in my backyard, just propane for now.

@@no1but24 20-40 here.. thankfully the utilities have kept up. Haven't had to pull the generator out this year yet. Hope I won't have to! Good luck with your setup. If it is as long as it sounds, you might need 1 inch diameter pipe or so. When I was setting it up, I did the research into all the calculations for it. I don't remember everything, but I think I cover it roughly in the video.

Hi Gerry, thanks for reaching out and asking this really good question. The first thing I must mention is that I am in no way an authoritative source for this particular question. My generator is only 2 years old and I have run my generator on propane and natural gas for only about 5-10 hours. You'll probably need to check in with me in 10 years to see if I need to eat my words or if my research and opinion turned out to be right. That disclaimer aside, I have heard concerns about the engine running hotter than normal and decided to proceed despite those risks. Here are my main reasons. #1. Motor Snorkel, Nash Fuel, and several other competitors have sold thousands of these conversion kits since the 90s. After doing this for 20-30 years, if this was a widespread issue, I would imagine hearing more news about generators failing due to conversion. I have not heard of a personal story of a motor being damaged due to conversion from gas to propane or NG (I would definitely be very interested to hear someone with this experience). Based off of this, I deemed it safe enough to try. #2. The likelihood of me using the 3 year warranty is pretty low. After the originally break-in period, the likelihood of me sending the generator back in for warranty repairs is very low. The terms of the warranty excludes normal wear and tear, so it's going to be pretty tough to prove that it is Champion's issue. On top of that, the fact that "transportation charges on product submitted for repair or replacement under this warranty are the sole responsibility of the purchaser" makes it even less of an incentive to use the warranty. Unless the inverter or engine is faulty, it's going to be cheaper for me to have certain things serviced by local repair person out of warranty than to ship it to Champion and then back. The warranty is probably most useful for the first 5 hour break-in period when you find a real manufacturer defect. After that, most issues will fall under the warranty exclusions of normal wear. #3. Motor snorkel does address NG/propane running hot. They recommend in the manual to run the alternative fuel with as lean a mixture as possible to keep the engine running cool. I did tune my gas mixture to follow this. I believe I can set it at a level which keeps the engine cool enough to prevent damage from happening. I would recommend going for 20-50 hours on the engine as a break-in period. If there were any warranty issues, they would show up within that timeframe. After that, I would proceed with the conversion. I just don't see enough to back up the claim that conversions break generators at a higher rate than running solely on gasoline. We have to remember to balance any claims we hear about conversions damaging engines with the fact that generators that run on only gasoline still end up failing too. I think proper maintenance and care is the most critical that would prevent issues from happening with either a tri-fuel converted generator or a standard gasoline generator. Hope this helps! I'll be sure to report if the motor snorkel and running on propane or NG damages my engine in any way!

@@jonathanDIYs Jonathan, Thanks for your thoughtful detailed reply. I'll take your advice and run an extended break-in before diving into conversion. Gerry

Champion has posted a lot of videos which show how to replace things like.... Co modules.... Inverter modules....etc. My take on this is if you have a warranty failures are going to ship you a new part and you install it according to their video. Because as pointed out above, the shipping cost to ship bigger generator is going to be very expensive... And that's after you've managed to crate it up......mine was $200 shipping when I bought it . And it was already boxed and protected properly.

Hi, thanks for commenting! Yes, I am running my 4ton AC off of my inverter generator which is plugged into the main load center through a 30 Amp generator inlet port and a manual interlock transfer switch. There is a chance you might have to upgrade to a 50 amp for a 5 ton AC. It's hard to tell until you try it out because it is surge power and not sustained so the quick surge to startup might be able to go over the 30a equipment without tripping the breaker. Hope you have a successful install and setup!

@@jonathanDIYs I really appreciate your response. If I can run it on a 30ah outlet will save me time and money. The worse that could happen it doesn’t work. I really appreciate the video and info. You are the only one Ive come across that is similar to my situation and wondered if it would work. Thanks again and will keep you updated.

That's awesome! What materials are you using? I heard you want to use sound deadening foam but you also want to make sure it is heat rated. Would love to know about your setup some more.

​​@@jonathanDIYs I only use An Accustic foam from Amazon and Plywood but Must closed ALL Opening and must be double layer of wall To Be more Sound proof. ..... You can just look at the house Walls at your house and determine from there. You are very Smart guy Already. Your English is Wayyyyyy Better than moi...👍👍

​@@jonathanDIYs Almost done with my Project. Will do a Short video to Upload... I don't really do for Any rating. Just a few videos about this Sounds Reductions and a Generator Shed

@@Honestandtruth your English is pretty good. Does the foam melt? A short video would be cool, I'd watch it!

​@@jonathanDIYs Most materials are Heat -Resistance in the Shed. In the Extension Compartment of Muffler Noise Reduction Flame and Heat -Resistance ...

Yeah, that's the going price. I bought mine from a supply surplus store on eBay. If you keep searching, you might be able to snag one after a few weeks. I set up an alert on a few keywords and found all of mine for approximately $150 for 80 feet. I joined 3 20-30 feet 3/4 inch hoses together. Hope you find what you're looking for!

Thanks for commenting and sharing the info about how many watts per horsepower. The extension cord is large enough gauge to handle the amount of amps the generator pushes out without any significant drop in voltage. The last time I had this run, I was still getting more than 115 volts measured from my Sense power meter. I'll measure my voltage at the generator next time and at one of my outlets and see if it is greater than the 3% max VD that is typically allowed.

No issues with that as long as it is not sustained. Inrush is normal in circuits. Regularly, the AC has 70-80 startup amps even though it runs through a 40 amp breaker. Thanks for commenting!

Alright, so I had to take some time to reply to this because I needed to get back to the computer and look up the code book again for this. So my gas meter has a 1 inch pipe coming out of it. I have a standard 7wc pressure regulator before the pipe, it doesn't run 2 psig, so we could use the IFGC Table 402.4 chart. The way these things work is that the fuel capacity is constrained by the smallest diameter upstream. My gas meter is connected to a tee 1" from the gas meter, 1 1/4" to the house and 3/4" to the service port which I added the quick disconnect to. So just because my house has a 1 1/4" pipe going into it doesn't mean I am getting any more capacity than the 1" coming out of the meter. So looking back at the Table 402.4 chart I referenced in the video and the description, at 0.3" WC pressure drop, we're starting off with a capacity of 514 CFH even if the pipe had a 10 feet length from the meter. My generator takes approximately 130CFH and the furnace is 80,000 BTU which for the purposes of calculation, we can round to needing 80CFH. My tankless hot water heater is actually the biggest consumer at 199,900 BTU (let's say 200CFH). This leaves us with drawing a total of 410CFH max excluding my gas stove top and my gas fireplace (which is more decorative than heat providing). At 514CFH capacity coming in from the meter, we actually have enough to run the generator, the furnace, and the hot water heater at the same time assuming the natural gas company isn't having a shortage. So to answer about why the champion has a 1/2NG hose, it's a matter of length. If you look on the chart again, we can see a 1/2" diameter hose can provide 131CFH if it is 10ft or shorter. If you're providing the necessary capacity to the hose, let's say 3/4" for a 30ft run from the meter which would provide 151CFH. It should be safe at that point to step down from 3/4" to the 1/2" hose for the last bit. Please look at table 402.4(1)... Hope my explanation isn't too confusing. I find it helpful to have the table open while I'm looking at the sizing. Regarding picking generators, one thing I look at is the THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) rating. This measures how perfect the AC sine wave is, the more perfect sine wave, the better it is for electronics. This steered me to the inverter generator because I didn't want to worry about low quality electricity for all the computers and electronics I had. My house was built recently and everything is "smart"... my HVAC and oven is even connected to wifi - so I didn't want to risk damaging all these sensitive electronics. Wish you the best for figuring out whether to get something new or convert the duel fuel. Thanks for commenting!

@@jonathanDIYs THANKS a really informative post. thanks for putting in all that time..

The more I research and look into this, the less I feel confident about the details that I shared with you originally. Let me leave you with at least official info that would put you on the right track: 1. There are two standard methods of determining pipe sizing - longest length or the branch method. If you want to properly size everything, use one of those methods. 2. From US carburator (www.uscarb.com/natural-gas-chart.htm): If the hook-up hose is kept to 6' or less, the use of a 1/2" hook-up hose and quick disconnect coupler for up to 18hp engines is acceptable. The point is to have the correct size pipe up to the shut off valve for the generator. It is like would be necessary if using an electrical appliance on a very long extension cord. The extension cord may be quite large but the wire on the appliance may be quite a bit smaller. The same principles apply. Having a sufficient amount of gas at the shut off and QDC to feed the generator is the key. As I'm not an expert on this, I rather cite a knowledgeable source and let them be responsible for the validity of their statement. These two pieces should be more accurate than my first stab at explanation. Thanks for asking, it really does help me understand these things better as I dive into the research!

Jonathan….do you know how much TOTAL of a btu load that regulator delivers? The chart you reference is great but you are missing a key point. In actuality, the service line coming into your house pre-regulator is pressurized to 10 psi…but you have a standard residential regulator which is a 4 ounce regulator with a 7 inch water column.

Hi Arturo, you just have to wrap the CT around both the main input wire and the generator inlet port wire. Make sure to have both wires running in the same direction and it should work to give you relatively accurate usage of both systems. I'll try to take a picture or film it next time I'm working on my electric panel. Hope that helps!

Thanks for the tip@@jonathanDIYs . I saw what you meant on the surge protector installation video. I ended up rerouting my clamps similarly to yours.

@@ArturoPalaciosJr Awesome! Glad you were able to figure it out!

Mine it a new Storage building!!!!!!!!!!

I installed a sense power reader. You put these clamps on your wires coming in to read the amps and something in a breaker to read the voltage.

Yes - the regulator prevents any NG from coming out unless there is a vacuum from the engine.

The breaker on the generator should be sized to trip before stalling the generator. In general, nothing bad should happen. I would be more worried for electronic equipment. A failed startup will result in an undervoltage and potentially the frequency of the electricity to be off. Both of these situations should be ok to the A/C for a short period of time.

​@jonathanDIYs I bought a champion generator 15kw/12kw I'm guessing when I switch to natural gas it will drop it to 10kw or 9 kw. Do you kno any ways of how I can clean the "dirty power" to add an inverter to it simce i did not buy the invertor type? Or will the home breaker protect small appliances?

You can run the generator power wires in the same direction as the main power cables and put the current sensor clamp around both the main power cable and the generator power. As they are never run at the same time, they won't ever interfere with each other. I'll try to shoot a video on that one of these days when it isn't over 100 degrees outside. BTW, sense is on sale for prime day - grab one while you can! amzn.to/3NQJoZC

someone else had the same exact comment - can't say that I listen to AM radio regularly... Thanks for commenting!

When you live in the mountains you often can only recieve AM. It is also used for communications like Ham Radio, etc. Where I live there is no cell phone coverage. Broadband is by satellite only. We use landlines for mission critical connections.

@@jmoss99 very important use case! Thanks for sharing. I never had to even consider that, very cool to learn what other scenarios people need to use the generator for.

You also get more options... As far as I know, they don't really make too many inverter generators that are trifuel. I wanted to have an inverter generator because it outputs cleaner electricity measured in THD total harmonic distortion. Inverter generators are as low as 3-5% while regular generators can be 30-40%. The lower THD is better for electronics and LED lights. You won't get flickering and UPSes will charge properly.

@@jonathanDIYs I like that as well. I don't see many tri fuel inverters either. The ones i do see seem to be around 500 more than what you have. I''d probably do what you did cept with a shed for the generator since i have more space. I like your videos, they've given me many ideas. thx

@@Gripmaster3000 awesome, glad you found it helpful. I dunno how, but the cheapest I saw this generator sell for was a bit under 700 on Amazon. I use camelcamelcamel.com to track prices and buy when it is low. You can set up trifuel with this setup for roughly $1100-1200 regularly and maybe even under $1000 if it ever dips to under $700 again. Hope you have fun and your setup goes smoothly!

@@jonathanDIYs did you buy yours from amazon? and im looking at dual fuel ones at the moment and wondering if the propane and natural gas go into the same port. I know with your attachment you added it seems to but im wondering without. thx

Yes, I bought it from amazon. Yes, the propane and the natural gas go into the same port. Gasoline is liquid, but both natural gas and propane is a gas.@@Gripmaster3000

30amps*240volts is 7200 watts if the load is properly balanced on both legs...

It wont!!!!

Sense App - you have to attach sensors to your main incoming power lines to see that.

@@jonathanDIYs sounds expensive

@mikeeeeee555 yeah, I think I got it for $150 on sale... It has gone up significantly since then.

hi there! Gas conversion kit cost approximately $190. The long hose I needed to buy and the quick disconnects was what ended up costing a lot as well. I think I spent another $200-$250. I think around $400-450 in total. If you don't need as long of a hose, you can probably shave off $150.