Charley Burley fights the reigning California state light heavyweight champion Billy Smith in Smith's hometown Oakland, California. Rounds 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5
This man Knocked Out Archie Moore in his prime and won his last several fights before retiring unrated (imagine that?) at like 31 years old. 5'9" middleweight who twice went the distance with the future heavyweight champion of the world. Without being forced by the boxing commission, what champion in their right mind would fight this guy?
Beautiful use of the lead foot by Burley. He was constantly controlling Smith's movement with subtle steps of his lead foot, and using the extended high guard (with use of the regular high guard in close quarters) to keep Billy Smith at bay. He always made sure his head was off the line of attack by selling feints with in and out movement using his upper body and stutter steps and his, once again, lead foot keeping Billy Smith from creating his own attack and forcing him to back up and reset.
Great clip! What came immediately to mind for me is that Burley's great style, at least as as demonstrated in this fight, was used in a very similar fashion decades later by Ray Leonard -- especially in Ray's fights vs Duran 2, and vs Marvin? Specifically, mastery of distance/range, lateral movement and angles, use of the jab from long range, and counter-rights? Agree, or am I off base on this?
Yes, I agree that Burley in this fight is beautifully economical in his movement. And yes, in general, Floyd was as well. But remember, versus Marvin, Ray faced a terrific middleweight coming at him full steam, hammer and tong -- which would put wings on my feet, for sure! LOL! And Floyd was never too proud to increase his movement, in response to a specific opponent's tactics. Wish we had more clips of the great Burley versus different styles. But based on this one, I have no doubt that he could master many different situations.
Ray Robinson fought more champions than any fighter in history, he also fought 108 top 10 ranked contenders, his quality of opposition is damn near second to none. The fight with Burley was supposed to happen in 46. Im sick of people saying ray ducked burley, it was possible for them to fight, there was a small window of oppurtunity, however ray was a welterweight and Burley a middleweight, and they were not obligated to fight & when ray won the title, burley wasnt even ranked in top 10 any more
Robinson fought more world champions in history you say. But he didn’t fight Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Jimmy Bivins, and Holman Williams on multiple occasions and giving up substantial weight to each, did he? And that’s merely scratching the surface. So what if Robinson fought more white champions. Burley was denied title shots. Lol
Archie Moore referred to Charlie as the toughest guy he ever fought. I was always curious about that statement as at the time I had never heard of or seen Charlie. Thanks for the post.
Burley looks like a very fast skillfull defensive boxer, something about his style reminds me of Roy Jones Jr. I think Robinson was slightly better but that Burley would have given anyone a run for their money and would have been champion of the world if given the chance
my opinon is like the guy ricochetshotz says,burley was a bit before srr time.and if there was a small window of opportunity sugar ray saw it to fight an lesser oponent for more money,I cant blame him I do the same..both fighters are true hall of fame boxers.
The thing with boxing is, you need to punch to score a point. Charley is the definition of perfect boxing defense. But, if he fought Ray Robinson in his prime, Charley would loose. Ray Robinson was the perfect offensive fighter. If these two fought, the fight might go to distance with Ray winning by UD. Or, if Ray can catch him( that's if Charlie makes a mistake) then Ray would finish him!
People forget that Robinson was also a feared and avoided opponent, he didnt even geta title shot until he was 73-1 and had beaten all the lightweight, welterweight and middleweight fighters, contenders, champions and HALL OF FAMERS was SRR was on his way up to chase the middleweight crown, Burley was descending the ladder and dropped from the rankings, when Ray won the title, Burley wasnt even ranked and shortly after he retired. Burley was avoided, but not directly by SRR, simple as that
Ray Robinson is often chided for not boxing Burley. Robinson shined against guys who attempted to tear his head off. Also, Robinson knew that the paying public craved excitement and he needed KOs. A bout would have been a chess match that would have bored audiences to death. There was no way to sell this bout which had nothing to do with race but styles.
This video shows that the guy was a slickster. No doubt about it but he is not committing to inflicting a lot of damage here. A full assessment would need more video. In the meantime, we can look at his record which is very good but certainly not unblemished. I could see a hard nosed pressure fighter giving him trouble. A lot of people are saying that Robinson avoided him. The fight didn't happen but that could be because of money, syndicates and/or other reasons. Burley seems to have been an honest guy and that could keep one out of a 1940s title shot no matter what your skin colour. I don't see why RR would be afraid of him. RR routinely fought middleweights, who did at times give him real trouble. (e.g. LaMotta knocked him down and beat him and arguably should have been given a second decision and Abrams who Robinson edged in a VERY disputed decision and a tough fight. Abrams had earlier fought a draw with Burley in Burley's home town.) It is also been said that Robinson avoided quality black fighters. If that is the case, how is it that he fought Gavilan twice including a title shot? My conclusion is that people are almost deifying someone that we cannot make a full assessment of. He was very good in an era of many good fighters and it is a shame he didn't get a title shot. We can say that about a lot of guys.
jose soto I read somewhere Robinson didn't wanna fight him. But from what I've read, Ray fought EVERYBODY so it's weird he would have been afraid of this man.
Armando Ramirez I was told the same thing by alot of old trainers in Gleasons. Alot of the welterweight and middleweights of that Era wanted no parts of burley. There's something called the black murderers row of boxers. It's about legendary black fighters who never got a shot due to politics. Ray Robinson only fought one guy from the murderers row I believe he stopped him in 8. but the black row had some of the greatest fighters ever.
jose soto Hmm.. Interesting. Will look into that. From what I see of Burley, he had a real awkward style that would make a lot of guys look bad. Kinda like Winky Wright was to his era.
it had more to do with their skills then their color, Robinson was champ a bit after this, he, like floyd and leonard, made many requierments to make a fight
I...guess. You see what you see. I see what i see. I see a similarity in Armstrong and Frazier no doubt. But i see absolutely no comparison in style in Burley and Jones Jr.. Not on offense or defense. Another thing people seem to judge Burley's style on this lone footage of him. The man could do it ALL. He simply chose this strategy for Smith. Burley was a freak of nature and of mind. He could do whatever he wanted. Jones defense has always been a joke. He never had it,only his reflexes.
I don't see their encroaching style here though. Can you tell .e what tome slot gives you that idea? Armstrong is my fav fighter always love seein similar movements of his
@TheGreatA Good observation. Roy was a great, but it's a popular thing to hate him. fuck what any Roy hater has to say. When I watch Burley he actually reminds me of a young James Toney or Mayweather.
He was fighting between the 2 at the time but he did not officially move up to middleweight until 1950. In that time you could fight people in other weight classes with out moving up. Ray did it often against Lamotta, the first time it was 160 to 144. That doesn't mean that the welter weight champ should have to go out and fight every middle weight out there. I don't blame him for that. Now it would be a problem if Ray was the MW champ and still didn't fight CB but CB had retired by then.
@itsabird its easy to see why eh? and how. this guy shows the future of boxing in this clip... the sweet 'science' we know today. and this was in the 1940s LOL. 70 years ago. truly one of if not the first master of the sport. its no wonder sugar ray robinson said he was THE best. barely anyone was fighting this 'smart' back then.
And Joe Frazier was no Henry Armstrong, doesn't mean there aren't similarities stylistically. Look at the unorthodox left uppercut that Burley throws, the same punch has been used by Roy Jones in many of his fights.
I do know burley did say he would not have risk the title if he was champ against sugar, it was in response to a question to why ray never gave him a shot. My opinion is that it was a statement of respect to sugar ray, that was made in an interview in the late70s. robinson also made similar comments of burley. Burley was a few years before ray.As to Mrifari I never recall SSR fighting Billy Conn if he did someone tell me when & result.SSR fought Joey maxim and came up short.
You made this comment a long time ago but I thought it was funny. And a quick note, I think the proper phrase is "Sam Hill." I remember my dad saying it.
I READ ABOUT THIS GUY YEARS AGO. HE WAS ONE OF TEN FIGHTERS IN A RING MAGAZINE ARTICLE ON OLD GREAT FIGHTERS THAT COULD HAVE BEAT ROY JONES. THIS WAS WHEN ROY WAS UNBEATABLE IN HIS PRIME. THEY SAY THAT ROBINSON DUCKED HIM AND ARCHIE MOORE CLAIMED THAT HE WAS THE TOUGHEST MAN HE HAD EVER FOUGHT. HE WAS AN UNCROWNED CHAMPION. KINDA LOOK LIKE ROY JONES. UNORTHIDOX STYLE BUT EFFECTIVE. STILL MADE IT TO THE HALL OF FAME OF BOXING. WHY DIDNT RAY ROBINSON FIGHT HIM? WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT FIGHT.
Personally I don't think the likes of Lloyd Marshall, Holman Williams, Jimmy Bivins and Eddie Booker should be rated below him. I also think that Robinson would have beaten him, "duck" or not, but it would have been a tough fight. I guess we will never know.
@ celticbanner18, sugar ray and burley where at the same weight, read the black murderes row. they fought on the same card once burley was trying to get a fight with sugar ray. Burley was only really a blown up welter cause he couldnt get any fights. He tried get Henry Armstrong in the ring, but armstrong said he was giving welter up but he never did. He tried to fight billy conn who fought louis at heavyweight but he never wanted a fight with burley, he was too risky for better ranked fighters
Based on what exactly? Not disagreeing on the whole, but are you basing that on this footage or how highly he's regarded in comparison to other Murderer's Row members like the ones TheGreatA mentioned? I'd agree on the second point, as I don't think he was actually better than any of them, but if you're basing that statement on this footage, I have to disagree. Not only is there very little footage to judge him on, but I personally think, given the proper analysis, he looks excellent here.
@rjjfan That's your opinion.....One thing is definitely clear however and that is this - SRR didn't have the 'stones' to take on Charley Burley for ANY amount of money and preferred to fight easy opponents for next to nothing rather than risk his reputation, health and title(s) by fighting Burley! When SRR found out his manager accepted the terms for a fight with Burley, SRR said to his manager 'I thought you were supposed to be my friend' and refused to honour the agreement.
Good, but keep trying to get better because i assure you your opponents will [if you do things right]. Also, it may seem easy to talk crap about a legend but like people say in my island ''no es lo mismo llamar al diablo que verlo llegar''
Robinson Had a fight with a member of murderers row Sugaree knocked him out in the third round can’t remember his name well it’s in Dave Anderson’s book called sugar Ray
He does use some of Burley technique dumbo there is a video on RU-vid that proves that ward uses different techniques and burleys stance is one of them
Burley was a great boxer - but he was dull, That's why fighters like Burley were avoided - given there's a good chance they'd beat you and you wouldn't get a good pay-day. Boxing really is show business more than a sport. Nobody wanted to see consummate ring generalship - especially back in the day. And especially when said ring general was a black guy.
Mayweather has had some really difficult bouts but once he got boxing down to a science and realized he could make money by perfecting a punk persona he made millions. Mr. Burley was a simple craftsman. Like so many of his time, because of and even regardless of race, they performed in a different era.
@kevindlinc Emmanuel Steward said that Floyd is nothing like that persona. Neither you or I really know Floyd and we have only opinions of others to go by. Johnson lived during a time of REAL racism, not the hidden type and somehow kept from being shot at. Not all whites were racists since he had white lovers and friends. Why no promoter took the chance promoting a bout between Johnson or any of the top black challengers in an European country, like France, is an interesting question.
@swiffstep That is not true, he said he did not want to risk such a tough fight because he had nothing to gain. There was no incentive.He never called him the best.
I read s r Robinson said to his trainer at ring side of one of burleys fights "I'm to pretty to fight burley" suppose he was a bit wary of burleys style
only because no one studies anymore everyone just thinks they know shit about boxing, and one thing i can tell you is if you are the bigger fighter strenth dont mean nothing if your not as condiontioned as the smaller opponent, i learned this the hard way trying to be like tyson and fighting way too fast only to gas out and get tagged to the body later!
Ya'll say he remind ya'll of Roy Jones but to me he fights more like Nasim Muhammad. Watch how it's extremely hard to hit him because of his riding the punch and being extremely elusive. Roy Jones is waaay faster than Burley but Roy's defense is no where near Burley's. However when you're as fast as roy and as devestating a puncher, you could keep the other fighter on the defensive. I would have to say that Burley is a defensive wizard!
Maybe so, but SRR fought many of the same guys repeatedly and never gave a shot to a fellow black fighter like Charley Burley, who could have really appreciated the big purse. As for the weight difference - SRR fought light-heavyweight Billy Conn, so I don't see why fighting Burley would have been a problem. I'm not disputing the fact that SRR was a great fighter, but history will only tell half the story, because there were many talented pros that never got a shot at the big time, ie. C.Burley
the row were a bit before his time. the only member of the row he could have fought was burley, and you need to check the dates, because by the time ray became a middleweight, burley wasnt even ranked, and by the time ray won the middleweight title of lamotta (who was ALWAYS ranked higher than burley)...burley had been retired for years !!! its not like they were both in same division in their primes for years (pac & floyd) and then still fight never happened cos that would look suspect
And by the way, one quote that DOES exist is burley stating ray was the greatest of all time and he wouldn't have risked his only title shot on someone like ray !! Again, do your research and you'll see that quote is real !
A talented fighter with not enough credibility to bring the money in at the time... Champions all over the years have ducked this kind of fighter it doesn't make him the most feared fighter of all time. His timing isn't great, average jab not the best combination puncher either,hands low, good stance tho and good head movement and an excellent ring general thts the most I can say 4 him, he's no robinson.
Burley was fighting at middleweight when Robinson was a welter. By the time Robinson started looking to the middleweight division, Burley was at the end of his career. It doesn't look to me that Robinson ducked burley- why would he? He never ducked anyone else.. That is not to disrespect Burley- It is just that he and Sugar Ray never were logical opponents. Robinson never fought Archie Moore either, for example. The weights were just wrong.
easily beatable in regards to a fight wit ray robinson, if they fought a trilogy at the time they were expected to fight i would anticipate ray winning atleast 2 out of 3 simple. this whole ray ducked burley thing is a myth, do the research, check the dates & you'll see there was no "ducking" or fear by ray & still to this day NOBODY can find this so called quote where ray said he was "too pretty" to fight burley, yet people reference it like its fact, but burley called ray the greatest...fact !
I am not sure its for certain Robinson would have beaten Burley. It would have been close either way. This fight shows Burley superb fight skills and hes disadvantages by nearly 1 stone here in his fight against Oakland Billy Smith who was a big knock out artist and held wins over such outstanding boxers like Harold Johnson. In boxing this is a huge about of weight to give away. Yet Burley won easily.
damn wow i wish boxing stayed at this level. i hear trainers say so many times today that the young guys dont want to learn. i dont mean this as an insult to the older trainers and old school guys but i feel more like they dont wanna teach. the old trainers were so easy to find and listen to. i would just watch a guy like virlgil hunter train and pick his brain for hours
how ironic is it that it was actually burley who said ray was the greatest and he wouldnt have risked his one and only title shot in a fight against ray robinson and that is a FACT
Also, Futch, Moore, and Joe Louis have said Burley was the best fighter they ever saw. Ezzard Charles is on record saying that Marcel Cerdan was the greatest boxer he had ever seen so MAYBE you are just a little biased for Sugar Ray? Burley is on record as saying “He’d (Robinson) been in trouble” referring to Robinson had they fought. Burley wasn’t afraid of anyone and was confident he could whip anybody. “I just love to fight”-Charley Burley.
Burley was great no doubt fought guys heavier than him all the time He had to often he was outweighed by 10lbs or more. rumor has it he knocked out Jersey joe walcot sparring SRR didnt avoid him but he didnt pursue a fight with CB either!! burley was never KOd in 90+ fights ATG Ezzard beat him twice thats true seemed to have his number. read Burleys book guys 500 pages of amazing history!! The Black murderers Row were about 7 guys nobody wanted to fight cause they where that good!!
Ray Arcel and Sugar Ray had a conversation about Ray giving Burley a fight and Ray responded by saying, " Ray I thought you was my friend", Sugar Ray knew that Burley would beat him
BURLEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED THE BEST PROFESSIONAL WITH A WEAK TYPE OF NERVOUS SYSTEM OF ALL TIME. HIS TEMPO(DECISIONS PER SECOND), HIS REACTION AND HIS FITNESS PUT HIM WELL ABOVE THE FIGHTERS OF THE MODERN GENERATION, WHICH ARE OVERPUMPED WITH STEROIDS AND STAY ALMOST STATIC DURING THE FIGHT.HE WAS A COLOURED WELTERWEIGHT AND MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION AND DEFEATED SUCH BOXERS AS HOLMAN WILLIAMS AND ARCHIE MOORE(MOORE WAS DOWN 4 TIMES).HE FOUGHT FUTURE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD EZZARD CHARLES, LOOSING HIM ON POINTS TWICE, WHILST RAY ROBINSON FOUGHT SMALL ITALIAN-SPEAKING BOXERS,AVOIDING BURLEY, AS GOOD AS MARCEL SERDAN AND JAKE LA MOTTA. OAKLAND BILLY SMITH, WHO IS OUTCLASSED BY BURLEY IN THIS FIGHT, ONCE STOPPED FUTURE LHW WORLD CHAMPION HAROLD JOHNSON,A BRILLIANT PUNCHER HIMSELF
+Sean Price MAKES NOT SENCE FOR YOU."WEAK" MEANS "FLEGMATIC" OR EVEN "MELANCHOLIC".THAT'S QUITE UNUSUAL FOR PROFESSIONAL BOXING,BECAUSE PRO-GREATS USUALLY HAD MIDDLE TYPE OF NERVOUS SYSTEM(ROBINSON,ALI) OR THE STRONG ONE(LISTON,TYSON, BILLY SMITH). YOU SHOULD NOT CONSIDER "WEAK" AS "COUNTERPUNCHING" AND "STRONG" AS "STAULKING", "SLUGGISH", BUT MOSTLY THEY ARE LIKE THAT.
+Die Rote Fahne I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean. forgive me but maybe I'm not as educated as you, but I'm interested in what you are saying but don't really understand. burley looked very strong in my opinion, do you mean because he was a counter puncher and won knockouts with timing etc and he wasn't a liston type heavy handed puncher? I think that's what you mean but if I'm wrong correct me. I thought the nervous system dealt with reflexes and timing in that case isn't burley got a good nervous system? please explain in English what you mean because I'm puzzled.
+Sean Price MAY BE,LISTON WASN'T THAT HEAVY-HANDED,BUT HE WAS DEFINITELY HEAVY-MINDED AND BAD-INTENSIONED.BURLEY'S STYLE WAS VERY MUCH OF DEFENCE,LIKE WILLIE PEP'S.IF WE COMPARE HIM WITH SUCCESSORS OF HIS COUNTERPUNCHING STYLE,WE WIL SEE JAMES TONEY AND FLOYD MAYWEATHER, BOXERS, WHICH ARE STATIC AND UNABLE TO BLOW THAT LONG AND THAT STRONG.AND I AM NOT SURE,IF TONEY AND MAYWEATHER HAVE "WEAK" TYPE, BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE "STRONG-TYPED" BY NATURE,BUT TRAINED AS COUNTERPUNCHERS
+Die Rote Fahne yes I agree I thought that's what you ment. it's because floyd and toney don't look for knockouts with heavy handedness and brute strength like George foreman but instead rely on counterpunching and timing. but in the lighter weight classes you have to rely more on speed and timing don't you. I wouldn't say mayweather particularly strong but his timing and speed makes up for it, same as hopkins. but the opposit of that is julian jackson who was immensely strong. tyson had both I think. he was incredibly fast and explosive at the same time. burley is more like mayweather but looked stronger. toney defiantly was strong you sometimes seen him load up with overhand rights and hooks but when defensive could knock you out with chopping punches.
+samtotheg and i doubt burley beats sugar rays ass...holman williams was considered sugar ray without the power and he was 3 3 and 1 against burley. ..remember sugar ray had that power!!!!
No reason to rank Booker ahead of Burley. Booker did less well against a slightly inferior class of men. Guys like Marshall, Bivins and Charles were better, but also bigger.
Charley fought killers. Have you fought some1 like Charles who killed a man in the ring? Have you fought multi-division universal champions like Archie? Whenever you step your game up fight better competition, you will get hit more, your ''heavy hands'' wont seem so heavy & hopefully you will learn when to hug & hold [before it's too late]. Every1 has to learn to hug & hold, just Ask Floyd Mayweather.
You show me that quote, it does not exist. I'm talking about facts, the only one of the row that robinson could have actually fought was burley and when robinson was a full middleweight, Burley wasn't even ranked any more, that's a FACT. Lamotta was always ranked higher than burley and ray fought and beat him even as a welter. Burley was a great fighter but its bullshit and ignorance to say robinson was scared or ducked him !! Do ur research. Check dates and context and u will see the same !
Booker's career was cut short at 26 years of age due to eye trouble which is why I wouldn't rate him above Burley. But he beat men like Archie Moore, Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall and seemed to be coming to his own at the time he was forced to retire.
He fought Ezzard Charles 2 times when Ezzard was killing fighters in the ring. He beat guys that beat tony zale & billy conn, he beat heavywights, he beat archie moore, beat zivic 2 outa 3 he was robbed in the one with zivic.(zivic bought his contract so not to fight him again).KO billy smith in the locker room after this fight becaues billy was not convince.Burley vs Robinson is a tossup.Who would u fight lamota & gavilan or ezzard & moore.SRR was arogant & great,Burley was the truth & humbel.
Dude get your facts straight, srr NEVER FOUGHT billy conn, and also there was only a very small window of oppurtunity for them to fight, when ray robinson became a 160lb fighter, burley wasn't even ranked any more, and when robinson won the middleweight title, burley had been retired for years. Don't believe the bullshit, burley was very beatable, if ezzard charles and holman williams beat him numerous times u think ray all of a sudden couldn't? Come on, ray was the goat simple as
Burley retired because he could not get a title shot and well enough paying fights. He was only 31 years old. Even fought a few exhibitions for the next few years knocking out his opponents.
Charlie Burley was overrated there’s not much film on him because he’s a boring boxer hey must’ve Fought A bunch of stiffs not much of a punch no combination punching every time he throws a jab he drops his right hand sugar Ray Robinson what does hit him so many combinations the fight would not have lasted long they could not make the fight between those two because it wouldn’t draw the crowd
SRR ducked Charley Burley every chance he could by raising his demands for a larger purse each time a challenge from Burley's mgmt came forward. SRR turned down $10k, then $20k, even when his manager accepted an offer for $25k, but SRR refused that too and then demanded $50k....when a group of investors offered $60k cash, SRR turned that down too! Burley never got a title shot because he was an honest man and would not 'take a dive' - EVER!
Ray shoulda just took that last offer , I know you don’t really see Ray as the greatest boxer of all time because you say he fought the same guys or cabbies 🚕 or whatever but let’s not overlook the beauty he displayed in boxing 🥊 nobody till this day can fight like him or have the bout record he has had in short periods of time. He fought Soo many times and lost once too Jake Lamotta after that he never lost another 8 years. Just like Burley Ray was also an avoided feared fighter and wasn’t given a title shot neither until later on but I am disappointed that Ray never gave Charley a chance for the title I’m sure he knew that there were brothers that needed a title shot
@@MrIFARI yes he probably did but then when you look at other fighters who are widely considered the greatest like Willie Pep, Harry Greb, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong , Joe Louis, Benny Leonard or even Muhammad Ali you get put in a difficult decision too choose who really is the greatest not just by having the full skill set and boxing ring IQ and all qualities of being a boxer but you look at their records. Sugar Ray Robinson didn’t have many records that he claimed like Joe Louis did or Hank but like I said he fought perfectly! Not sure if I’d say he’s the greatest but he’s definitely amongst with the rest that I named
@@Lonelysportofboxing The boxers you mentioned were fundamentally sound fighters and great athletes, especially considering the eras of very long matches they often fought - But their styles were not extraordinary...Ali fashioned his fighting style after SRR, which tells alot.
there is talk that Burley was told to take it easy on Ezzard Charles to carry the fight and Burley was in the tank, Ezzard Charles was a mob connected fighter - lots of corruption in the sport
