Christian Nationalism, Theonomy, Postmillennialism, and Other Small Topics 

True this was kinda painful

Way too many false dichotomies

ahhh no 😅 maybe I should have listened before reading the comments

Dude no kidding. All the premills absolutely beat the crap out of that straw man that Owen built. Then you even have someone on the panel throw some more straw in when the poor thing was about empty, “I think we can assume this individual is postmillennial”.

James White is James White. Take him or leave him. I am more of a Tim Keller guy.

True Christianity will transform society, but it's not going to happen on the terms of evangelical voters.

​@@theeternalsbeliever1779why do You say that? That's not Our position (Not James', or mine, nor Anyone's i Know). It's going to happen on GOD'S Terms. Here's the thing; GOD Has Laid Out "HIS Terms". What are They?

Amen. Biblínõ He is a verrrry Solid Brother who has not wavered in the face of any foe We Know -from [radical] "real" muslims, Roman catholics, Hate-filled aTheists, to full blown Apostates. He holds it down.

We're here to save souls not own the libs

Yes it is a depressing bunch. They need to read about the Scottish Covenanters. Not one of us will ever hurt a baptist because they are Credo Baptist. I would rather have Increase and Cotton Mather in my corner than Roger Williams or these anabaptist principles which aren't like John Bunyan who went to prison for 12 years for refusing to not preach without a license. Plus his daughter was blind and poor. That was a man of God who really suffered. The Canada pastor I applaud and he has a good testimony. But I can go to jail and spend some time there (like 3 years would be ok for me). Not a problem. Let's all start offending the culture and go to Prison. The leaders should be offending more of the mainstream culture. Jesus did and said if they don't hate us it's a bad sign. Who's ready?

That pessiminnialism is rampart in G3

Amen my Friend. YHWH Bless n Keep You!

@@jmsto87 Yes. It is all over the Modern Western Evangellyfish .

Perhaps it is like White representing the older men speaking sober words of reality during Rehoboam's time - but the king's son only listened to the younger untested men. The older godly men are getting older....will this younger generation listen? Doesn't look good from what I can see and G3 is on that line of decision.

He is delusional on the port of government having authority over a bunch of strangers

@@71mach15 He’s not delusional. But you make no sense 😂. How else is a government supposed to be. The ultimate Authority the government should be under is God’s Word.

@@reyleon2602 ok so maybe Dr. White isn’t delusional but just playing dumb..it’s one of the two, what exactly made no sense form what I said?

@@71mach15 How is He playing Dumb? And to respond to your question, you said delusion comes from the idea that Government has authority over a group of strangers. That is literally the Definition of any form of Government. That’s what didn’t make sense in your criticism. Also I want to note you just backed off from taking a hard stance of calling the Brother in Christ delusional.

@@reyleon2602 I do want to focus on something here, anyone can read back and use logic and reason anyways, if I were to present to you with my new government that I made, my political claims and all of it’s rules. You would start complying and obeying my government correct ?

It will not happen. Because they would be completely outclassed. Baptist history is bitter, and it is wrong to make it seem like Paedo Baptists are going to re-baptize or drown anyone. It's a silly argument being made against men of God who want a bottom up change in the country and world.

They’re scared

They are not interested in robust debate. You can question why that is, I have come to some conclusions personally, but historically these topics rose to the level of debate and discussion amongst the parties.

Doug Wilson is really good at sounding profound and intelligent to people who aren't (generally speaking). He's 90% rhetoric, 10% substance, just the sort of person who would thrive in the theologically anemic age we live in. It's all about how you sound that matters today. Just read the predictable responses to this post. His followers are too childish to handle even slight criticism against their pseduo-intellectual idol.

​​@@greg7384calls others childish and unintelligent... While acting childish. Starting your attack with an ad hominem is not doing yourself any favors, dude. Just like you say the predictable response from Wilson's fans was predictable, so are the detractors. Do better.

Doug needs to debate Dr. Don Preston instead. But I don’t know why all these reformers keep evading a debate with full preterists.

@@ProphetGreg94 Do full preterists think we are in our glorified bodies right now?

Isn't full preterism a heresy?

I used to listen to Don Preston, Don Preston is a heretic, Don needs to debate Dr. Sam Frost (again)@@ProphetGreg94

​@@HearGodsWordaccording to?

Yeah, I have been watching him talk for years online. Very familiar with his body language. He seemed annoyed by Mr. Strachan's poor attempt at comedy and the wish for applause (he sounded like a mainstream music performer wanting the crowd to show love in my opinion). Making jokes about eschatology is not something to make light of. It's God's Word and there is nothing good about laughing about Christian theology. Especially in this climate.

he totally dominated the beginning of this panel

I just don't care for him

​​@@pam2viphwhy though? His book "The Forgotten Trinity", in my opinion, is one of the greatest works done by the mind of man in history. It should be required reading for all professing christians. Edward's was a genius who explained the Triune nature of God in ways that were honest, but near genius levels of intellect are required to understand it. Dr. Whites book has all those qualities, yet even a new believer can understand.

​@@pam2viphrepent!

​@@joshhigdon4951Owen should probably read it and reconsider his heretical EFS views of the Trinity 🤷‍♂️

James Coates went to jail for the truths we confess. James Coates argued for the primacy of the Word of God in the life of the church. And James White alone made this panel worth watching?

That is where it was coined

Interesting thoughts being accurate thoughts

Yeah Voddie is a strong man of God I believe. He left the USA and I do not blame him. We need some devoted African Missionaries to come over here and evangelize and preach to us too. They are willing to suffer many of them and the Lord honors that!

And liberals today are not consistent with liberals yesterday, so much so we have to come up with another word today to better distinguish them, ie Classical liberal. So what's the point of this other than to call it something else? Did early Christians have a choice as to what the world was already calling them, what about the Puritans. What is your point?

@@banemaler My intention was to point fellow believers toward a helpful resource for understanding the subject of Christian Nationalism. I mentioned Baucham because he has spoken extensively to the current upheavals in the Church, so I reckoned it might to be useful to direct folks his way, especially since a brief dialogue between the gentlemen in this video could only scratch the surface _and_ there is more to the topic than what was covered in this breakaway session, or even the larger conference. That was my motivation in leaving a comment on youtube and the entirety of my point. Yet now, seeing as you've taken some objection to my words, I'm motivated toward helping someone who seems to be struggling with making sense of it all. I can only imagine that the tone you've taken with my rather innocuous remark is from battling on many other fronts, causing one to see everything as an assault. You might want to step back a little from the internet, not everyone is an enemy - though I suppose that if you persist in being so aggressive toward everyone who crosses your path, they soon will be. ... and i can assure you, friend: that would not be a problem for me

But our brethren of previous generations have done similarly in parts of the world where they now cannot. This can happen to America as well.

@@lcs-salam can you cite an example? Also, if available, generations who are actively engaging the society. Thanks!

A cursory glance at any of Paul's epistles shows that he did far more than "preach the gospel". Once the gospel is preached and believed, "how then should we live" must be addressed, as Paul did.

Do you teach your kids how to do things, or just tell them "Jesus died for you"? "Discipleship" BEGINS with the Gospel. What's truly scary is pietists like you who are literally so heavenly minded you are truly no earthly good. :) God bless.

Can you explain who exactly is saying that we should not preach the gospel? I hear this strawman argument all the time but noone has been able to show who is saying this - sounds very much like slander

@@philipmurray9796 Paul didn't do anything more than preach. If you're going to make that kind of fallacious claim, you had better show scriptural proof. Nowhere in the entirety of Paul's epistles did he ever say that God commanded him to do more than what what he was actually commissioned to do. I don't see a single passage where Paul tried to transform Rome through its politics.

@@theeternalsbeliever1779 all of Paul's pastoral prescriptions and instructions for living in the church body are not preaching the death burial and resurrection of Jesus. Plain and simple.

Agreed 👍

Can’t wait for the CN guys to extend the same courtesy. Oh wait… they won’t.

​@@mattcraig4601they already have multiple times

@@mattcraig4601they’ve literally asked for debates lol

I don't see anyone offering to debate them

Ken Ham? He's not a pastor, theologian, or Bible scholar. Not even remotely close. He's a one-string banjo who thinks Genesis 1 is the only passage in the Bible.

Ironically, your comment is even more cringe 😂

Yes, next year we should have a colloquium on the English Civil War. Many of these topics would be made much clearer to people if we started what was the cause of that and why. The timeline of the study and consultation with eachother can be finished at the point when William of Orange came over from the Netherlands (that's my vote for the first year of the topic at least...then we can study the declension of Protestantism in the Nation of England that followed and the reaping and sowing took place...there were some great periods of revival and change up until the 20th century and my knowledge of Church revivals in England ends there. MLJ was a bright light for sure. Banner of Truth won't publish his writings even though he started the thing cuz he believed in extraordinary providences and great outpourings of the Holy Spirit that led to true revivals. Now BOT sells John Calvin face mugs....). It was a rough time for Protestant England but they weren't killing each other and that is a fact.( We sure could use something like that here, but alas, England is worse off than we are. ), For now. Pray for our nation and it's leaders. Not for Biden's conversion (which God can do, but it's a bit sanctimonious and obvious God is not well pleased with his life. But that the Church can have some rest like in the early chapters of Acts....after the persecution that is coming soon to real Christians. Let's see these leaders do some hard time for Christ. It will encourage and strengthen us. 501C3 can sit on rotten eggs! Check out Dr. Nick Needham's short series of lectures on the English Civil War. A Reformed Baptist type at least and fantastic Church History teacher on sermon audio. (Sidenote...I have had to listen to the series more than a few times to get it all straight. It is not an easy history but vital to the discussion that is called "friendly" here), but so much light and clearness will arrive if you pray and think about it as Paul tells Timothy to "think on these things and the Lord will give you understanding in everything).Please pray for Mr. Needham too as he is friends with James White and living in the godless, secular almost seemingly Muslim majority of the UK. They really hate their forefathers there in the Tory and Labor Pary Governments. King Charles isn't English either but German and Transylvanian. Neither is he saved by a long shot. I don't mind making that judgement and I will answer to God for making the statement publicly. With fear and trembling these things should be so (as we work out our own salvation), as judgement Begins in the household of God. So much for Reformation Day instead of the Helloween and other Pagan celebrations there in the land of the Puritans.

Please stop the name calling

He has better theology than you I'm sure of it

Many of us are familiar with the Streisand Effect. Here, we may see the origin of the Strahan Effect.

Who have they run from? 🤷

@@HearGodsWord AD Robles, Stephen Wolfe, many others.

@@lkae4 I haven't seen them run from those guys

@@HearGodsWord Then what have you seen? They've been challenged repeatedly for debate and keep attacking the CN side but no debate. What happened? What did you see?

Where were all these supposed misrepresentations?

@@HearGodsWordevery time Aniol and Strachan opened their mouths, mostly

@@Jay_the_giant you couldn't find anything meaningful to reply with then 🥱

@@user-qx7qk6qi5x you sound like a papist complaining about Protestantism.

@@HearGodsWord or maybe you’re just blinding yourself to the actions of your idols 🤷‍♂️

So what's this amazing alternative to G3 that's offering so much encouragement? 🫣

@@HearGodsWord Honest pastors whose allegiance is to Jesus, not a brand?

@dubyag4124 so these men then

@@HearGodsWord If you prefer liars? If you call that a good pastor, suit yourself. Strachan said CN teaches "living in a "Christian" nation makes you a Christian". There are zero credible leaders on the CN side of the discussion who teach or believe this. But G3 continues to misrepresent. So yes, "these men". they are all yours brother, enjoy the echo chamber.

@@HearGodsWord Apologia, Fight Laugh Feast, Jon Harris, Right Response Ministries…

It's more complicated than that.

It's not about having the debate at their conference. It's about a debate period. Don't criticize and attack other Christians and then run. There are many unflattering yet accurate descriptors for that kind behavior. None of them appropriate for leaders of the church.

I think the joking at the beginning of the panel was really bad form. He wanted the audience to applaud. He knew he messed up and seemed to try to cover it in my small judgement. Praise from God is much sweeter than the praise of men for sure. We will all get our rewards.

@@fw2101jacobinsleight He says the most unaware things. I'm shocked he got this far up the G3 chain. His understanding of the Gospel seems about as deep a puddle from a spilled soda.

Including g being separated from your idols. Flee idolatry saints. Jesus breaks ups homes to bring His people home to Him and the Father. Only those who love their lives in this world are blind to these truths about Jesus❤️ ““Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭34‬-‭39‬ ‭ESV‬‬

None, which is tragic

@@StoryscapeDesign Where is Doug when we need him?

Define the term

Zero because they don't want to "platform" such.

@@c.m.granger6870 Weird that the only places I've heard that before is when liberals refuse to debate conservatives... so they hide behind "i don't want to platform them..." lol

He is busy training pastor's in Africa who aren't about the Benjamins or prestige I would wager if I was a betting man which I'm not. We need them over here.

Truth does, to some extent, divide. We separate from the world because we know the truth. Yet, there are things in Scripture where it is not perfectly clear exactly who is right. Like this video started off by pointing out that all these men disagree on eschatology.

@@Jondoe_04 Eschatology? Darby/scoffield brought in a pessimistic and defeating “eschatology” Baptist brought in their own spin 😢 Charismatics brought in their spin 😢 Arminianism brought in their own spin 😢 Pastors of different churches can’t even get together and discuss heresies hence division 🤮

@frankcontreras8886 eschatology is the study of the end times all of them held to different beliefs on it but did think they were all brothers in Christ. Also, saying Darby and Scofield brought in a pessimistic eschatology doesn't make what I said wrong. What you said thou shows that you are making a doctrine that is meant to humble you as a point of pride.

@frankcontreras8886 literally, all of the three major forms of eschatology have been throughout church history. The earliest fathers were primarily post mill, and Augustin was one of the most well-known amillennial presenters in church history. And there are plenty that held to pre mil even in the early church. Dispensationalism is rather new, but still, that's only one form of premill. Also, historical Baptist are amillennial.

Tell me something 😂 What are Christian’s suppose to do?

So afraid that they had a whole conference on it? Hmm 🤷

Yes, honesty is always the best policy even worldlings will admit at times. Well, not so much anymore. But it is...see questions in the Westminster Larger Catechism on the 9th commandment for a comprehensive exposition of this truth. And no matter what anyone tells you ever, The Westminster Assembly not Oliver Cromwell ever burned or drowned any Baptists. Neither the Mather's in New England. Fact.

The same gospel preached is the same gospel power that conforms the sheep. We will and must conform to the work Christ said he came to do by His spirit and rejoice in it❤ ““Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭34‬-‭39‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Oh please!!! This was simply a discussion including Biblical theologians committed to the Gospel of Christ with varying eschatological viewpoints! That’s all!

The other side has plenty of evidence that more than one of these men are not faithful to brethren. Overwhelming evidence.

Totally agree

Ppl who disagree with God are not following him. The whole "we can disagree on secondary issues" is just the evangelicals' way of trying to sweep falsehoods under the rug. The Bible teaches in 2 Jhn 9 that disagreeing with Christ's doctrines makes someone a deceiver. It's funny how evangelicals will use the "secondary issue" argument when it comes to ppl they like, but they don't keep that same energy with the pro-LGBT churches.

The Earth is flat. Would you consider this a secondary issue without harming unity?

@@cxx1953 that’s an unbelievably false equivalency.

Judging from their interactions elsewhere on social media my question is why did we expect any different?

@@nando7522 Agreed

I've personally heard them address every single aspect of CN put forth by Webbon, Wilson, and Wolfe. Maybe watch/read a bit more of G3's videos and articles? Not being sarcastic. Respectfully... they've addressed all of it. They simply don't agree. Blessings on you.😊

I don't think James White was stawamnning his friend in the slightest, and I don't think Pastor Wilson would say he strawmanned him.

​@@lauramckinney9896Yes they've addressed it but they misrepresent it and they refuse to talk to anyone on the other side publicly or privately. They are arguing against an imaginary perspective. You should probably do more research.

Perhaps you can enlighten us

@@tbh334 I think the other comments plus tons of content by men such as Dr. White, D. Wilson, Webbon, Robles, Jon Harris, and many others that I’m not naming should be adequate to explain what I mean.

@@tbh334 People like Owen will sling dirt on twitter and strawman the other side... then go on interviews and talk about people being immature on twitter. He says he doesnt want to "platform CNs"... yet he platforms the idea constantly, even though he strawmans it. If you dont want an idea getting platformed, you shouldn't spend so much time talking about it. Like his question: "What would you do if a young CN comes to you and says "the gospel just isn't enough anymore....". Well, no CNs are saying that... so what are you talking about? Oh, just implying that CNs believe something they don't, in order for you to be able to burn the strawman you just created... got it.

​@hammers5250 it's easy to complain when you don't provide examples.

Well that's fine cuz he stood strong like a real man of God with his kid's crying and everything. He is to be admired. Spurgeon said it's good for us (the Church) to see a preacher get arrested every once in a while. We might get to see who copies his good Christian conduct.

Amen

I'm not sure it's quite a binary as that, unless it's being reduced to a very basic level.

@@HearGodsWord if you want to explain, i'm all ears

@joshhigdon4951 if I'm wrong then show me how.

@@HearGodsWord for me to call you wrong, I first have to hear your plausible explanation. Just asserting that you "dont think its binary" isnt an arguement. If there is an option other than theonomy or autonomy, I would like to hear it.

Oh it's coming.

That comment was intended mainly for Americans. Anyone who has tried homeschooling outside of the united States of America knows that there's barely a chance. It's pretty much up to Americans to lead the world on that front.

@@fiery_hunter3271. But that situation is there because of the denigration of liberty even within Western democracies. I’m not for Christian Nationalism, per se. But I am for fighting against multiculturalism and postmodernism and the continuing dilution of Constitutionalism. I am for bringing back a robust classical liberalism. I am for a basic Judeo-Christian ethic predominating (in order to ensure the freedom of EVERYBODY). I don’t want anybody’s kids sexually abused. I don’t want any of them manipulated concerning gender identity. I don’t want any of them subjected to “Drag Queen Story Hour.”

@@hanssvineklev648 Precisely. But are you expecting all Western society to move the right way _at the same time_ ? Someone has to lead. It may or may not be America, but it likely is. Also, at about 20:00 of the linked video, the Christian Nationalism thing is directly laid out: ru-vid.comKC_6ItikPX0?si=CDF1JidWDqH4emfU I wonder if it might change your mind on Christian Nationalism.

@@fiery_hunter3271. I don’t think most of “Western” society is Western any longer. And many would maintain that even here in the United States we need to wake up and smell the coffee: we have ALREADY lost the so-called “culture war.” Breitbart famously observed that “politics is downstream from culture,” and in some ways that’s true. But in other ways, it’s quite the opposite. The pseudo-left has gained hegemony through manipulation of the electoral and legal system, as well as a relentless, systematic march through the institutions: the judicia, the media, academia, tech, medicine, science in general, politics, economics, and philosophy. Of course, it hasn’t ignored the culture: entertainment, the arts, and literature. But I don’t think it has majored on it. To the extent that there is a chance left, America will have to pick up the slack. But Evangelicals here are so “go along to get along” that I don’t see it happening, except, perhaps, as an act of God.

running into all directions with his thoughs…

Yet none of the men seemed to mind. In fact, the first episode of the G3 podcast after the conference even joked about it.

That and the unqualified support of the God-hating secular nation of Israel

At least with christian nationalism and theonomy, the definition *is* the debate.

Amen. And Spurgeon was historic premill. It's getting old reading comments from people who have no historical perspective on these things yet point the finger at everyone else for "not getting it."

I'll stick with Edwards

We know.

That was quite funny but questionable :)

Right, real change happens not only in government but in Society, the family , the individual

No one lol. The closest is dr white but as he mentioned in the beginning, he doesn't apply that term to himself

That was addressed very directly here, throughout the video but spelled out at ~20:00: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KC_6ItikPX0.html&pp=ygULY2Fub24gcHJlc3M%3D

Yes we should, however perhaps it’s not nessessary to be a Christian in government, but at least follow And uphold Gods law

Yes, James Coates who literally went to jail for the truths we confess when he stood up to the Canadian government has a severe deficit in understanding a biblical worldview and how it relates to politics and culture.

@@greg7384 if he denies the abiding validity of God’s law in politics today, then yes.

I actually kind of like it to be honest. It’s accurate. We want Christian nations. I am a Christian. That comes first. I love my nation and am grateful to God that I am a citizen of it. It’s the polar opposite of the secular globalist, who as far as I am concerned, as far as human factions and ideologies go, is the arch-enemy of God and the wellfare of mankind.

🔥

No kidding

I can think of a couple: 1. He had other commitments scheduled. 2. They didn’t want to bring in “The CN guy” and wanted to show that there’s others who hold to the position who are less controversial. Some people will (wrongly) immediately shut off when Doug is involved or will just tag CN as a uniquely Moscow brand Presbyterian ideal. Bringing in someone who is both a baptist and very well versed in apologetics, church history, the source languages, etc, makes a lot of sense.

Doug Wilson, with his filthy mouth, isn't qualified to be a pastor. Why should he be invited? ("But Paul said...")

Good question. Maybe he had a conflict or he’s a coward

To name a few: John Harris, ad robles, Joel webbon, Doug Wilson (leader of the previous 3) and Stephen wolf (wrote a book on CN).

What is the difference I thought those were just interchangeable? I know what theonomy is I thought CN was just another word for theonomy

It is too bad the political system only allows those who belong to the Devil in higher office. That is a real problem we have to admit. Not enough evangelical leaders are saying it consistently with enough force or power and that is one reason we seem to be losing on all sides. Why are they not saying it more? Anabaptist principles and Pietistic practice strips the Christian ministry of God's help in these matters it seems. Power and prestige must be the worst sins of the flesh to combat I admit.

The theonomic side loves to twist Scripture. Of course he ignored the other part of that passage.

Would the principle still not apply though? Will a nation that, as a whole, recognizes yahweh as their Lord not receive blessing as a result? I'm not denying that God must first choose the people within that nation btw.

​@@hookoffthejab1 How exactly does a nation recognize Yahweh? How many laws? How many slogans and symbols? What percentage of its population? Whatever sins a nation outlaws, there will always be more, and it can't stop its people from offending God every day. Even Old Testament Israel, which had the law of God as the law of the land, fell under God's judgment. Nations don't have hearts or minds or souls. Nations can't exercise faith. Any religious policies it has are worthless, and God's wrath is still coming upon it because its people are sinners.

@@akadwriter and that would be a very unfair and unbalanced assessment or accusation given the context of the Q&A session where each speaker is usually encouraged to have less than a 3-4 minute response, else the session would have gone on for more than 8 hours if each speaker was permitted to give a comprehensive response.

@@jp22344 It's based on watching CN speak for hours. And their writings. Not just this video.