I just want to express my appreciation for Hitchens. He's a national treasure, and its also amazing to see a man who wont even shut up for cancer. Go Hitch!
I see we got a bit of a grammar debate going on. Because Tariq was a "man of god", he could be considered graced by Allah. Thus, his fall from grace could be literal
It is the cookie jar effect... if you say... don't do that... that is forbidden.... well it makes it more thrilling.... also homosexuality is not just sex... but the more freedom you give sexuality the less people feel the need to look for sex in secret...
If your claims are true, then why didn’t the Persians reach the golden age before they became Muslim? Why didn’t Europe utilise all the knowledges they the Greeks had? why did they had to wait for Muslims to not only take it, but translate it, utilise it and bring to life giving birth to what we know today as modern scientific method? You people need to make up your minds, and stop being petty!
"The ability to ask questions, to read the books we choose, to pursue unfettered investigations. And these are flatly negated by the claims of a religion that says it is the answer to everything." -Well said Hitch!!
William Ridgeway Whataboutism. We’re talking about Islam not Christianity. Christianity has more or less been brought to heel by western secular societies. Islam has not. Stop deflecting.
I watched this 9 years ago as a Muslim and didn't understand Hitchens points, but today I come 9 years later, a 7 year agnostic atheist on the side of Hitchens baffled at how stupid I was not to see the problem. This only tought me a couple things. Be precise at highlighting the problems of the religion. Don't waste time talking about things in general. Don't be nice as it is taken as a point of weakness. Know that maybe the person listening to you is stubborn today, yet in time they may start noticing the problems. Finally, stop being nice if you know the person in front of you is not a threat. Show them where the issue is and don't underestimate their mental capacity. That's seriously very patronizing. Yes the brainwashing could be strong on the majority, but one argument after the other could at least give the person the courage to look back at their belief and brainwashing with critical eyes. You need those seeking the truth and not seeking to prove their religion is right even if that means they could lie. People that lie to prove their religion is the right one are only fooling themselves. Point that out and move on with your day. They are not worth your time until they decide to seek the truth and not collect points.
Problem with that is in the past it has resulted in violence, the person raising the issue usually will end up hurt. Hitchens a true gentleman who knew how to articulate himself with a mix of humour. We need people like him using the same strategy as opposed to insulting, seems to be more efficient.
I’m constantly worried about my intellectual blind spots as well on other topics... we all have them... the best thing you can do as a rational thinker is reserve the right to change your mind based on new or better information.... Our thoughts and beliefs should be dynamic. Constantly evolving... even Einstein was wrong when he thought the universe was static and eternal.... we now know that is it expanding.... but Einstein changed his mind in light of new evidence.... Remain open to new arguments ideas as you have been 😉👍🏻 most people don’t have the courage to jettison old, false beliefs. It’s more comfortable to cling to them... Im amazed at the foolish things I used to believe as well!
Brother please, there is God. A God created you and He loves you. Brother, sinners including all who don’t believe in God have their paths in the lake of fire that burns till eternity and brother, eternity is far!!!
@@Godswill247always come on... there is no god.. no divine plan or purpose save what we make for ourselves. Your lake of fire is nothing more than a fantasy along with all the mythology that goes along with it.
@@jamesleighdavis138 hmm, to you there is none but to me there is. The God who loves me to have created me and even came to die for me on the cross of calvary. Brother, I don't know what went wrong but even if there is no testimony, sodom and gomorrah, the whole universe, birth and death should do something to you. The bible says " a fool said in his heart, there is no God". Brother, after death is judgement. The lake of fire is not a mith. If you believe there are angels and evil spirits, I don't know
I am a christian and really miss christopher. I have seen some crazy caricatures of Jesus Christ an NO CHRISTIAN has ever called for killings. He is totally right on islam
Habshi Mechanic what you said make no sense if you’re a muslim. Allah doesn’t love me. And i will never love him too simply because such an entity isn’t worth worship or prayer. I spit on Islam.
Habshi Mechanic yeah i saw, pretty weird, you should be able to say anything you want without your comment being removed, i really dislike the youtube system.
All single prophet religions are bogus, particularly when they're grown at gunpoint. They're aimed at the gullible or the oppressed. When someone says an angel dictated a holy book to him, the correct, rational response isn't, "Give me a copy, I need to read it right away!" it's, "Introduce me to this angel of which you speak."
The problem, especially true in Islam, is that he person who responds with the more sceptical phrase has a decent chance of being murdered on the spot as a blasphemer ...though I take your point. I suppose though that if people were sceptical, there would be no such thing as religion :)
You are wrong, my friend. If you insult Jesus in a Church, people will do nothing to you. If you insult Muhammad in a Mosque, your days will reach to an end.
@@krakenbyte7377 Knowledge came from various civilizations in the past . Arab civilization is young compare to many other old civilizations . The Arabs learned everything from European civilizations and transferred the knowledge into their language and made people to think about them . That's how we got golden age . No need of cultural arrogance .
@@vibe5171 A weird counter to murder, but okay. Also, did Al Khawarizmi not use science to invent these algorithms. Doesn't matter if he is Muslim. His faith wasn't the direct causation to his discovery, you can claim it helped his motivation, but no more.
Tariq isn't that stupid, and Hitchens looked right at him after he said it. I think the message was heard loud and clear. He told Ramadan "You may have fooled others, but I see right past your bullshit." Total badass.
It is such a comfort to know that religious types are so forgiving and gracious. I'm sure both your god and your mother would be proud. It's insane that people think they can talk to each other in this manner.
Does anyone else think that Hitchens here kind of looks like Sebastian Shaw, the actor who played the unmasked Darth Vader in George Lucas' 1983 "Return of the Jedi"?
The problem is that faith is a barrier to doubt, and therefore the barrier to scientific inquiry. Having faith in place of doubt (or being 'sinful' for not doing so) eliminates the chance of ever acquiring knowledge - which is what Hawking was talking about.
Hitchens is brilliant. His arguments are so well constructed and articulated. I love how he looked right at Ramadan after he said that in Islam it's okay to lie. That's what we call BALLS.
Just because we are angry at how us as Muslims are treated doesn't mean we can belittle other people's religions. Pray for your enemies and let God handle the rest.
Sorry, but I never made hate speech. Criticizing a religion (and calling nations that adopt it "backwards") is direct and to the point, but does not constitute hate speech. Blaming the ills of one's country on "the Jews", however, does, as I've seen in Egyptian newspaper. Anyways the best one can do regarding religions is to approach them skeptically, see if they have any good points in them, and reject what's invalid or immoral. Simply use reasoning and critical thinking.
Quelqu'un peut me donner un lien de cette vidéo sous-titrée en français ? svp , je veux tout savoir sur le débat de Tariq Ramadan et de Christopher Hitchens !
Daily reminder: International Apostasy Day, august 22 annually since 2020, to commemorate the victims of apostasy laws. Ex-muslims: Shunned, ostracized, persecuted, imprisoned, executed and murdered for leaving the "religion of peace".
Hitchens is really smart. He said in one sentence that Islam doesn't have a leader, a pope-like person "I am certainly not going to criticize Islam for not having a Pope" and the rest of the question he answered with real examples. He is so fast and so smart.
An attack on apartments that neighbors say were used as a brothel in Baghdad killed at least 28 women and six men Saturday, security officials told CNN. An AFP correspondent on the scene reported that the attackers left a message on a door: "This is the fate of any prostitution." Unidentified militants wearing military uniforms and street clothes stormed several apartments in the Zayona residential complexes in eastern Baghdad, officials said. They fired their weapons in the streets before breaking down doors to enter the buildings, security officials and residents told CNN. Once inside, they killed the men and women, the officials said.
In WWII, in the Pacific, the Japanese were the aggressors. It is sad that so many had to die in order to stop that aggression, but how else do you display the kind of power it takes to make an emperor, who is considered a god by his people, cease and desist with his aggressions? WWII, in Europe, the Nazis were the aggressors. It finally became apparent to America that unless we DID become involved, that war would spread to our continent as well.
0:33-0:44 "A scholar once told me that he thinks the problem with Islam is that every Tom, Dick, and Harry can give [a] fatwa." Interesting point. I kind of wish US scholar Reza Aslan were in this debate since he takes the opposite view of Dr. Tariq Ramadan in his 2005 book, "No God but God: Origins, Evolution, and the Future of Islam." In it, Aslan argues that the fact that Islam is one of the most decentralized monotheistic religion puts in a especially good position for a reformation.
this is interesting because this capacity for reform can be used equally for good and bad, as we can see in something like Wahhabism and other movements, which were bad.
@yusufulhas You don't seem to be condemning fatwas,you're saying that one needs to be a scholar in order to issue them.What do you think of the fatwa against Rushdie?Was it wrong or right?
A thousand years ago, give or take, certainly during the Crusades, anyone present would have described Christianity the same way - invading, brutal, murderous, anxious to burn heretics... despite the passing of time, there are more similarities than differences on the approaches of the zealous.
✂️ Christopher sure does shred this opponents arguments Very seldom do you see someone take on any faction of religion or shall I say organized religion like Christopher does I think he may know better what his opponents religion it’s about
I live in a town of about 50,000 in the midwest. Early one evening, I went to our only strip bar. I sat next to a man of middle eastern lineage. He would never tip the dancers. He would offer them a cigerette. This pissed me off. I figured out he was in the medical field. He wanted me to guess where he was from. After a half hour or so, I guessed Saudi Arabia. He was shocked that I got this right. He asked me if I was a Christian. I told him I was an atheist. He got up and left.
"..certain classes, rich by inheritance, in cooperation with the clergy, had appointed themselves the administrators of the people. It is an old gaping wound in the heart of society that cannot be removed except by intense removal of ignorance." - Kahlil Gibran ("Kahlil the Heretic") And this following quote is for Christopher Hitchens: "And i will die happy and in peace because I have fullfilled my mission and revealed to you the Truth, which demons consider a crime. - Kahlil Gibran
what exactly do you think "spiritual experience" means? Because for me it's something demonstrably real, at least for myself. I often trust that when other people describe similar experiences they're not deluded.
Yes, shows his loyalty and obedience to Allah and extreme strong determination to complete his mission. If you have a trust from your king to convey his message of truth about himself to the people, wouldn't you yourself declare that you will spread the message until everybody acknowledges the message and you will keep trying to proof to them that the message is the truth from the king? ...(Continue)
I just found out that Rusty was attacked in August of 2022, which means over a decade later there are people who still wish to carry out the fatwa, the question is how will we ever know the true scope and size of those who wish to make future attempts and to honor said fatwa? Why are we to believe that it's only a tiny minority that wishes to continue this radical Behavior? I still have a few ounces of respect for Islam, but for any religion to claim it's a religion of peace is no different than the phrase men are good, which is a very ambiguous and also arrogant statement, has it presupposes that whosoever hears this phrase is obligated to believe it simply because it was said. The truth of the matter is religious people do good things, and also do bad things. Unfortunately, there are many bad things that are done by religious people and unfortunately it does not look good for followers of Islam even in modern day. One only needs to briefly study the fundamentals of the faith, and you'll understand why the voices who are against these radical behaviors are suppressed for fear of death, to oppose what we call radical actions is by nature to be against the faith. I have Muslim friends, and I truly hope the good ones will eventually find the courage to speak out more against any forms of evil
@CheekiShit I think he uses Salman Rushdie's example because they are both writers, and it puts into relief the lack of tolerance some Muslim groups exhibit towards critique or mockery of their doctrine. If you have ideas that cannot withstand these factors, there will always be a clash and never peace.
Here's how I perceive it: Hitchens is an excellent skeptical philosopher, who can dig deep into the sociological aspects of religion. He sees the bullshit in organized religions. But what he never really explored was the authenticity of spiritual experience. without that sort of sensitivity, you are never going to have a mature critique of organized religion, nor are you going to keep sheepish people from running to these large institutions when they DO have spiritual experiences or questions
I'm not Christian. Albert Einstein believed in God but didn't believe in any specific religion. Alot of people believe there is an intelligent creator without the need to identify with religion.
not knowing is ok. We don't have to know primary cause. Atheists don't pretend to know. Atheists don't push any values/morals/crusades, or kill in anyone's name. That's all done by the religious, who believe they DO know primary cause. Questions that can't be answered are much better than answers that can't be questioned.
