Cirrus Trim Runaway Fatality 

I had a trim runaway in a Cirrus in the pattern (relay failure). The AC went to full up trim on downwind @ 100kn and about 20” MP. We were at stall in what felt like a few seconds. It is absolutely possible to overpower the trim and land, which is what I did. Though initially I needed both hands on the stick. I still have the burnt relay sitting on my desk as a reminder. Sympathies to all those impacted.

I met the pilot that was the first person to actually use the life saving parachute in the SR 20 she was a lady in her 70’s flying in south Texas she told me that Cirrus was so thrilled at the outcome and how much the frame of the aircraft was still intact if they could have back that aircraft for obvious reasons that they would give her a brand new one and she said deal.

I wonder how many CFIs would be comfortable giving a HP endorsement to student pilot. There's a reason C172s and Cherokees are the most common trainers - they are simple, low powered, and docile.

Student pilot in a Cirrus reminds me of the old "Doctor in a Bonanza". Rich guy buys a plane that is way over his head and comes to a bad end. If you want to learn to fly buy a $40k 150 and get really good in it with it's low power and sharp stall. I did and had over 200 hours before I moved up. Eventually flew most of the high performance singles. Also the 300 hours in the old 150 were a blast. I visited almost every field on the LA sectional, plus Phoenix, Vegas, Reno etc, with one radio, a transponder, a compass and a clock.

I had a "Trim runaway" in my schools 2019 SR-20 on short final. The aircrafts stall system glitched and was indicating a stall at 95kts descending, I was on an ILS approach and the stall warning horn went off, I disengaged autopilot and kept hand flying the approach, 5 seconds later another stall warning, and this time ESP (electronic stability protection) engaged and though the plane was in a level descent, the system engaged the autopilot and began trying to roll the plane to the right with aileron trim. I remember hitting the disengage button and holding the stick fully left to keep the plane level, the autopilot would disengage and immediately come back on and try to roll the plane erratically. After the second autopilot disengagement I had to hold down the A/P disengage button, full control forces on the stick and do the missed approach, then on climbout go into the system settings and disable ESP. Only after that would the autopilot remain off. The stall warning message went off 3 more times in the pattern as I took the plane around to finally land. It was a godsend I had my instructor there to hold the plane on climb so I could disable the ESP, and that he knew that would work, I was in a frenzy looking for the autopilot breaker and If i had been alone trying to climb out fighting the autopilot while simultaneously looking for the circuit breaker below my knee, who knows what would have happened. These things apparently aren't uncommon in the Cirrus, schools using cirrus need to start training solo students how to handle these events.

I am a retired airline Captain, age 66, started flying at age 15, CFI at age 18...B747, DC-10, B727 CA. and then G2, 3, 4, 5, 550...instructor. I never had one CLOSE CALL...NEVER...nothing NADA....bought a brand new Cirrus SR-22 in 2005. Took the factory training and proceeded to NEARLY KILL MYSELF....kept that airplane 7 years and put 75 hours on it...THERE.. do the math.

Wise words, Sir! I was a sales pilot at Diamond Air, former HOAC (Hoffmann Aircraft), between 1992 and 1995. My conclusion: You can fly an aircraft with your brain and you can fly it with your ass. Flying MUST become instinctive. You have to FEEL the plane. Like some crows at a ridge in a stormy day. You MUST train emergency procedures. I did my aerobatic training in the former Czechoslovakia (LKJH). On EVERY training flight the instructor suddenly pulled out power and I had to get the plane (Z142) on a suitable field. In 5m (!) above ground I was allowed to apply power again. On many flights he put the baby in a flat spin and I had to recover it. If you practice this a while it becomes second nature. Here in Austria (and the rest of Europe I guess) nothing of this kind of REAL emergency training. It's a lack of proper (=REALISTIC) training that kills pilots.

I think most of these Cirrus owners want to try and save their plane instead of pulling the CAPS. It would have worked in this situation.

Brilliant work again, I really feel for the pilot, must have been terrifying. Thanks again for your work.

The trim is a spring cartridge in a Cirrus. You can pull the breaker, but unlike my old Cessna 337, you can’t manually retrim with a manual wheel, (kinda good with a 10 foot wide elevator on the 337). I always thought this was a bad cirrus design flaw. That and no nose gear steering, which I considered just cheap.

This is so sad. Heartfelt condolences and prayers to the family of that Marine pilot.

I had runaway trim June of last year in a 172 in the LA area en route to Catalina just as I was going through the Bravo with autopilot. Ever after disconnecting, the manual wheel was not working right (it showed the line at full nose down and was not easy to move) and the plane was trimmed for about 120. I fought with it to get through the Bravo and started getting things ok. I circled over the water a bit to trouble shoot, but knew I couldn't land at Catalina like that. I wasn't sure if forcing the wheel was a good idea because if the tab really broke, I'd be in a bad shape.I never declared an emergency either (it was probably a Pan Pan in hindsight), but let ATC know what was happening. They routed me back direct to the valley through the Bravo. It was OKish in cruise, requiring some backpressure, but landing was a challenge. It took 8 attempts to land (wound up landing no flaps) because as I was getting slower, it wanted to pitch down and I didn't want to jam the nose gear. I was really tired from having to do all the backpressure at pattern speed and the final finesse of a landing was hard to do. Haven't flow since. The narrator from the channel isn't kidding about the task saturation and combined with the fatiguing pressure on the yoke to counter it, its a challenge.

At 17 yrs of age, with about 4 hours of solo experience I also had a trim issue. I was flying a Cherokee 140 and after take off, I realized the trim was full up. I was confused and frightened. The more power, the higher the pitch. I had a knee helping me keep the yoke forward against the never ending pressure. At this point, I struggled to understand which way to turn the trim on the ceiling handle! I was determined to live and I did. Remaining in the pattern, I landed and survived. It was one of the most frightening experiences I had, as a pilot because I was so scared, I could not remember which way to turn the trim (on the ceiling) and I did not want to worsen the situation.

Wow...tragic story but excellent, professional video! Great job!

Amazing detailed analysis, nice work

Been too long. Glad to hear from this channel again.

The Cirrus should have a trim wheel... it's ridiculous that it doesn't. Flying the pilatus for a couple years it always drove me crazy to not have a Trim wheel, Far preferred my time in the King Air and Caravan. Parachute or no a GA airplane should always have a way to disconnect electric trim and use manual trim input. "Mild control forces" are often around 50 pounds, that's a lot to hold for an extended period of time, I'd be very curious to know if this was the ESP or not.

Was just discussing the fatal crash in Australia of a Cirrus SR22 4 days ago killing an experienced pilot and his 3 grandchildren in good weather - couldn’t understand how this could have happened in cruise - this video provides a possible explanation

Aviate, navigate, communicate - there is no landing in here... Looks like he should fly higher to give himself time to figure things out how to stabilize the plane.

Following this accident I´ve started to have new Cirrus pilots land with the trim in the full forward and full aft position. While it´s not particularly comfortable, it is absolutely manageable for a reasonably strong guy being prepared for it. For a 120lbs girl not so much, CAPS might be a better option for them, at sufficient altitude. The control forces involved seem to be higher than 20lbs, but even if they were the mentioned 20lbs....try to hold a bucket for a few minutes, it´ll be HEAVY!

RIP to the pilot. I think relentlessly drilling the position of the a/p breaker (as well as the function and position of the others) should be mandatory prior to solo. The panel in the 20 is tucked below your right knee and the last thing you want to be doing while fighting 20 or so lbs of pitch up is putting your head between your legs to read the panel and pull a breaker. Or at least some sort of touch cue on the essential breakers in aircraft where you can’t be reasonably expected to visually see the panel during an emergency.

In some airplanes like the Beech 99 and the MD-80, the trim doesn't just run the elevator, it runs the entire horizontal stabilizer and if it goes full north or south you don't have enough elevator to counter it. When I trained people in the Beech 99, runaway trim was trained and a part of every checkride.

I once took off in an SR22 with the autopilot engaged and it was definitely a few tense seconds trying to figure out why the aircraft was fighting me so hard on takeoff. As a student pilot I would have probably lost it...

This is the one big gripe I have with the Cirrus...it's the only GA plane I've ever flown that didn't have a manual trim wheel. Even on planes where I had automatic trim, I could disconnect it and use the trim wheel. Why Cirrus doesn't provide this basic feature - on a plane that's supposedly designed to be extremely safe - truly baffles me.

The red flag that hit me in the first 3 minutes of this video was that this airport was way too busy for a low time pilot to be doing pattern work in a hi-performance aircraft. Heck, even with 1000+ hours in my current airplane, I do not attempt pattern work in busy airspace. There are plenty of low traffic airports within 100 miles of this airport that the pilot could have flown to to get his practice landings in, and he would not have had the distractions of multiple aircraft in the pattern and a busy controller who was clearly handling more traffic than she was able to manage. EVERY fatal crash is the result of multiple small errors stacking up. Limit the number of uncontrollable factors when you are flying and you reduce the number of holes in the stack of Swiss cheese slices. Reduce your cockpit workload. Then if the airplane malfunctions, you are more likely to be able to figure out a good solution.

Oh man. It sucks he tried to get help. It's important to remember ATC is basically oblivious to the severity of your circumstances. Unless you say engine failure they won't understand it's an emergency situation without a mayday call. I have heard people essentially reveal they are unintended IFR (which is a serious emergency for any pilot flying VFR) and ATC just assigns altitude or a vector like normal. Remember they are not pilots (usually) and have many other aircraft to worry about. If you think you MIGHT lose control of the aircraft keep saying mayday in each transmission until you are acknowledged and tell ATC what you are going to do and do it.

this is all over the place

"A few things about stall speed...". It shouldn't exist in the aviation dictionary. The critical angle of attack should be the first term to be understood and used when talking about stalls only, cause that's the ONLY factor creating a stall, while the minimum 1G critical AoA speed should be another term. "Stall speed" makes the pilot think that if he flies faster he'll get out of stall. VERY WRONG and most fall for that misunderstanding! You only get out of a stall by reducing the AoA well below the stall in order to re-attach the primary airflow. That's physics! For the case of a false stall warning (like the 737-MAX proved king of it) you as a pilot should be able to depict it and beware of what is actually going on (only done through training experience) and take the correct measures. If the pitch control forces are too high, lower the airspeed to easier overcome the battle with the trim forces.

Reminds me of the 737 Max - an airplane programmed to crash. Sure if you are trained to overcome it, and remember the proper steps to overcome the fatal programming, you can get out of it, so they can claim "pilot error", but with a student pilot? Seems like a student pilot should have a simple aircraft with basic controls.

I had just finished a flight with a student and was walking inside my FBO at Midport just south of 28L when I heard this crash happen. A whir of an engine and a loud 'pop'. The locked gate Mr. Pickett must have been referring to was probably the north side of the field. I was by the south side near the ambulance, which couldn't get in because of the electronic keypad locks. Even after we got the ambulance in there wasn't anyone to lead/authorize them to the site. I pointed in the direction of the site for EMS and they just went. Probably lost 2 to 3 minutes in that delay. Definitely room for improvement there. I can attest to the quality of flight training at Coast Flight as a prior student, but only the investigation, facts, and the truth can provide a proper testimonial as to training being a factor. Ever since this accident, I made it a point to train students in various ways of getting out of ESP/autopilot scenarios. Anyway, thank you for posting this. Thoughts and prayers to Mr Green's family.

great video. the content you create is fantastic!

I have information about the owner where we both experienced a similar experience in a different aircraft he owned. We landed back safe as he knew how to disable the system that thought the plane had too high AOA and forced pitch down. It was a faulty sensor that nearly ended our lives and Cirrus just wanted it to go away, hopfully now a real investigation can be launched.

Nice message in the end of the video. Excellent work you've done. Condolences to the family.

My friend Sandy was a test pilot for the Air Force, he had a trim issue in his F-84, the trim switch was inadvertently installed in the reverse position. He wrote it up and they repaired it.

"A lot of people are surprised how often the pilot forgets to deploy the chute"... Only Cirrus drivers would forget to deploy the chute.. No matter how much time in the logbook, many people will still never grasp or understand aerodynamics or flight characteristics. It's finesse, and much so an understanding of physics.

I can't help but think that these aircraft should be considered as advanced over basic trainers. The wealth of information depicted on the panels, the multiple options offered can be a distraction and lead to saturation at times of high stress. I would recommend that irrespective of a pilot's financial situation for the first 200 hrs they stick to the basics.. I've no idea how many hours this unfortunate pilot had in his logbook but I do know that a half-million dollar airplane can invent far more situations to grab a pilot's attention than one costing 50 or $70,000.

It's not the controller's job to fly the airplane for the pilot. It's not her job to diagnose his problem. It's not her job to manage his workload. It's not her job to properly communicate an emergency in progress. It's not her job to choose for him a less complex and more forgiving flying machine. Those are all the pilot's job, and can NEVER be pushed off onto any controller. If a pilot is unready to deal with an emergency he has no business flying without a CFI. If private pilots consistently educated themselves on known possibilities like this, or continued training beyond the minimum requirements for certificates, fewer of them would end up like this. The secondary cause of this tragedy is a pilot who was not competent in his airplane--not because his elevator trim got him, but for failing in basic emergency procedures and failing to do Job One--fly the airplane.

There are certain things all pilots must commit to memory. The moment you have an electric trim, ESP or autopilot you must know how to strangle them. I also suspect that insufficient training is given to pilots on how to deal with them when they malfunction.

Hoping his family find peace. Never easy losing a family member.

That's the most professional and no-nonsense narration regarding an aircraft incident I've ever heard. You certainly know your stuff- subbed and thank you

i like your flat and factual narration style. good editing to. only thing i would add is if you could periodically pause the audio and just translate the radio jibber for some of us who cant understand the rapid fire lingo. so we are all on the same page. helps us beginners to.

Been reviewing this accident with some Cirrus instructors. Is it possible the student pilot got confused, gripped the yoke, and held down the comm button on the front (hence the “stuck mic” call from ATC) - thinking he was disengaging the red AP button on top of the yoke? Or was this an actual AP or ESP failure? The SR20 Before Takeoff checklist requires engaging the AP on the ground, muscling through the controls (which DOES require some force/effort but its doable), and then disconnecting the AP to ensure no control issues in flight. However, there’s no mention of checking ESP and you have to dig through the MFD panel System Setup to disengage ESP before practicing stalls, slow flight, steep turns etc in flight.

Excellent video, educational ++, and so well narrated. Great stuff. Keep it up!

I’ve heard quite a few pilots say “You’re basically trashing the plane when you deploy the chute.” So it seems common to avoid the deployment in a Cirrus just to save money. Crazy mindset to value money over your life. Not saying that’s what happened here, he may have panicked and thought he was too low to deploy.

Prayers to the pilot (A Marine), his family and everyone who knew him. This is just a heartbreaking story.

I was supposed to fly that plane not too long before but opted to Fly their newer SR20 instead. Something didn’t feel right about it energetically and I think because it was older too. I ended up buying my own airplane that was a 2019 so there was less likely for malfunctions I feel like. I was also a business owner getting my license and married with a kid just like this guy. This could have been me. Really sad day for this family.

This was in my area. Love your work. Thank you

Great video, I can tell you spent a LOT of time with this… 👍

The aerodynamic forces and moments vary with the square of the airspeed. So, that "easy" overcome may be easy only below X airspeed. Being at high speed you won't overrun it that easily!

Thank you for not calling him an "ex-Marine." The only ex-Marines are former Marines who were less than honorably discharged.

In my general aviation commercial flying I never used electric trim blw 2000' AGL, just the hand wheel. In any case locating the c/breaker by feel was a prestart checklist item. This guy was not equipped to be sent solo.

The Mooney has 2 trim electric switches on the yoke and the electric trim only work when both switch are pressed to prevent exactly this kind of trim run away accident. I thought this is standard when you introduce the electric trim feature. If the Cirrus does not have such redundancy and requires one to find the circuit breaker and pull it, then it is a serious design flaw.

If your airplane is equipped with an autopilot or electric trim, know at least two methods to disable it. Knowing that you can pull the circuit breaker is not enough. Find the specific breaker and practice enough so that you can reach and pull it with minimal delay should your trim run away. If you have an autopilot with pitch control, the unit will use the trim tab to relieve air loads just as you would. A modern autopilot should have at least three disconnects-the on-off switch, the circuit breaker, and a disconnect on the yoke.

I've had 2 engine failures over the years. 1st rule in any emergency, fly the airplane. Don't listen to ATC, Don't look around the cockpit, or even for a place to land. Fly the airplane first and don't move on to the next step until you are flying the airplane.

With enough horizontal speed, the parachute will self inflate before losing much altitude. I trained in the cirrus, and depending on wind, takeoff would take us over the city. If there was an engine fail on takeoff, you bet I'm pulling the handle even at 200 feet. Good plane, scary plane with lots of speed and power. I still prefer the 152.

I had a trim runaway twice, both in King Air 200's. One in cruise at FL270, the other on an ILS. Obviously survived. I did mark all trim cb's in red after the first one. Didn't help on the ILS becuase I was too close to the ground. Had to overpower it.

The very first Flying Magazine "Aftermath "I read (about 1975) described runaway trim in a Centurion departing IMC. That plane crashed with sudden downward pitch, unrecognized and uncontrolled. That vignette got my attention and I have routinely read "Aftermath" since. When I fulfilled my childhood dream of owning an aircraft (n1599z, a55-95 Baron) I promptly and permanently disabled the electric trim and have always used only mechanical trim. I still support completely separate nav and control systems though I reluctantly subscribe to autopilot use -particularly single pilot and IMC. Still, my control freakishness will obviate this "runaway trim" problem forever provided the airplane can be trimmed mechanically. It's one less thing...

It's always a good day when you post. These videos are very educational and incredibly well made! Thanks for all you do for the aviation community!

Lets see, that never happened to my 1940 Taylor Craft, or C-150, not even to my Varieze or my Avid Flyer.

Chrebet looks like uncle Leo from Seinfeld with the eyebrows, hahahahaha Get well soon!

You sir are a very skilled 'orator' who appears to really know your stuff. You touch on a lot of things that even if a refresher are top notch.. Sub'd!

I tilt at this windmill often. The FAR/AIM does NOT recognized the phrase, “emergency”. Instead, it recognizes the phrases, each repeated 3x: “MAYDAY” or “PAN-PAN”. While there is several comms issues here the biggest seems to be the pilot’s inability to fly his airplane through the issue.

I have hundreds of hours flying the cirrus SR 22. The type of aircraft I have the most experience with is a G6 with the Garmin perspective Avionics package. This aircraft honestly is not for low time pilots. There is an extensive training program which Cirrus recommends and provides. It’s a great aircraft and highly capable, especially with a TKS anti-Icing system. I highly recommend all Cirrus pilots to get the most training possible. Yes, pushing and holding the red cut out button on the yoke cancels, all aircraft automated inputs in these Garmin integrated systems.

Transponders need a single button for EMERGENCY - Code 7700

Love my 172M, no electric trim, no chance of runaway trim.

Imagine dying just doing touch&goes on a beautiful sunny day. How friggin sad. RIP.

Boy that flight simulator scenery almost looks real in some of those scenes! Very cool 👍

I was thinking what differentiates the Garmin SEP from a flight by wire system essentially it does the same. Maybe the controls aren’t processed by a computer and the garmin unit just detects the stall and activates the servos

Hi . Great channel and topic commentary. Great vocabulary. Keep it up, great verbal skills.

I guess the best way to fly Cirrus will be to pop the autopilot breaker when entering the cabin. Especially when training touch-and-go's

42P just made me a lot less intimidated to talk to tower

I was a flight instructor for 16 years, i asked a fellow instructor who buys them airplanes? He said rich people that don't know how too fly 😅

Little feller airbus type aircraft with the HAL 9000 in control .

When building an experimental you should never build the trim tab power to be so much you can't override it.

What flight sim is this and are these the standard scenary packages or an add-on? At times it looked like real life, very nice.

I always do take the time to give my daughter an extra kiss and tell the Mrs I love her In fact most mornings she leaves for work before me and I yell to her that I love her as she is driving away from the house so she and the whole neighbourhood knows it Edit: like & sub'd And I get to drop my daughter at school each morning so I get to tell her the same as she goes into class (she's only 6yrs old so I walk her into class)

Honestly, this is what can happen when you fly a plane without doing a deep-dive into the technical aspects. You can't know what you can't know. The more you understand the underlying system the more options you know even exist.

this wasn't trim run-away issue. the pilot was fighting the ESP inputs--he screwed up. He had a history of exaggerating about his Job and education history, financial basis, etc. just a few months prior to this he was on a podcast and said he was a "transport-Rated Pilot (but still working on his PVT. All the lies caught up with him.

This won’t be the last rich guy fatality. Money does not buy experience, only time does.. I feel like the more money you make and the more you flaunt your wealth the quicker you die..

It appears that he wrapped himself around the axle responding to the Garmin system which was functioning normally. The first officer on the Atlas 767 that crashed in LA a few yrs past responded incorrectly to what most pilots would consider to be a non event, solvable with the push of one button that’s cleverly hidden beneath the pilots thumb. These responses in both cases are the result of excessive fear of flight coupled with a deep misunderstanding of basic aerodynamics and operational procedures.

There's a lot to be said to building up your flight hours in an analogue Cessna 150 like I did many years ago. Low pilot workload and the trim goes where YOU put it. I fear for my low hour nephew, my half-brother (his father) recently gave him the money to buy a factory new DA40 with all the bells and whistles. Fortunately the DA40 has an excellent safety record and the lowest fatal accident per 100,000 hrs. of any GA aircraft.

The fact that the student pilot zeroed in on trim runaway makes me wonder if he was manipulating the trim incorrectly himself. It is possible he got confused with the direction of control. This might cause him to run trim back and forth rapidly without waiting for the elevator to make recognizable directional control. This could explain the rapid porpoising seen in videos. Sad loss of a fellow Marine. May he rest in peace.

Great commentary... kept me listening to the end.

There's a common misconception these days that anyone can become a pilot, and maybe most can, but few are suited to remain calm and properly manage a crisis.

Do all planes have similar electrical ocpd’s where you pull them out to open switch and push in to close? Reminds me of pushmatic panels

The only complaint I have for this channel is that it doesn't churn out material very often 😢😜

"belies", good word.

Always know how to find the breaker with your eyes closed.

I really enjoy your videos, but I'll add a couple clarifications here. The controller didn't ignore his emergency declaration. As you briefly mentioned, his transmissions were incomplete and covered by other messages. ATC don't know aircraft systems so it requires the pilot to explain clearly their problem and desires as soon as practical. We cannot provide support if we don't understand the problem. Speak in plain English, but first fly the airplane. Also, the controller didn't instruct the pilot to add power and climb. The controller instructed him to go around to the right. The onus is on the pilot to execute a controlled go around, and climb back to the pattern when practical. Again, control the airplane; a go around doesn't mean pull straight up immediately. I wouldn't say a go around instruction is loading up a pilot with tasks. Keep in mind, what you hear might not be what the other station hears on the radio. Depending on when the radio is keyed, other transmissions may block the message - some may hear that message, others may not. The pilot wasn't vectored in the pattern too closely. Sometimes the speeds of aircraft on the ground or in flight make it impractical to retain proper runway spacing so the controller issues the go around.

Modern-trained pilots spend Way Too Much Time on autopilot. Just because you have the function does not mean you have to use it! Fly like a real pilot, use the stick and you will learn a lot about your aircraft and have a better shot of saving your butt should something go wrong with the automated systems.

"it's only good if you insufferably drill yourself to use it" yup. true for so many things in life. as a skydiver, extra true.

I own and fly a 2021 cirrus SR22 G6. I don’t understand how this happened as the cirrus doesn’t have normal trim like a Cherokee 6 does as far as separate trim tabs. The hat switch just moves the ailerons and elevator. I’ve overpowered my autopilot many times. I’m perplexed as how he didn’t work this out.

More plane than a average pilot can handle.

it wasn't a trim runaway. Investigators say it was the Cirrus Electronic Stability Protection System (ESP) working normally. The student got dangerously slow in the pattern and the angle of attack (AOA) became critically high. The ESP automatically pushed the nose down to lower the AOA but the student tried to fight it by pulling the nose up. This stalled the Cirrus and killed the student. Unfortunately the student didn't understand the ESP system. Knowledge = Safety.

I can tell you one thing there would not be a situation where I flew in a plane with an auto pilot and didn’t know exactly where the disengage breaker was, and had practice many times, finding it blindly as by muscle memory. I wonder why this is not taught since So many pilots are experiencing auto pilot failure?

I wonder how much ego prevents pilots from activating the chute?

I heard her say he also had a stuck mic when he was complaining about the trim control. There is close tolerance in the yolk where both switches are located. I would like to see the maintenance records to see if someone had recently worked in that area.

First Hero for Transcendia Jim Monaghan was killed when he was qualifying in a Convair 440 which is the turboprop and the type zenith of the line starting with the Convair 240. Retired from the airlines the pressurization is taken out and their world is 12 above AGL No, it would be 12 MSL since the limit is only for the pilots who need that much air density or they need oxygen tanks and masks. Jim was killed in a flight that lasted 40 seconds. The cause was up for down and down for up. The plane had been incorrectly rigged by its mechanics. Another pilot told me the cross rigging had happened to him in the Baron. It troubled him little at the time because he had altitude to just practice some with the incorrect rigging.

This video illustrates the complexities and challenges of aviation, underlining the importance of training and quick decision-making. It's a somber reminder of the human cost of accidents and the need for continuous safety improvements. Human life is more than anything safe flying.✈🛩🛩

No need for electric trim on a small plane like the Cirrus.