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Colgan Air and this one both were stalls in icing conditions. Capt Magnar on previous video pointed they started descending without telling ATC about it, then ATC told them to stay at 17k feet for now. Then one of the pilots pulled up very hard and the airplane stalled. So both were like PANIC PULLS by one of the pilots went they went upset. Panic Pulls happen a lot by pilots weak for that. A lot on USA GA too. My 1997 EFATO CFI alerted me not to do that or he will have to shoot me. No BS.
Has been released the final report for this terrible accident? No... so dont blame the pilots.. there are many pieces that are missing there, despite the facts until now points to that their acctions contributed to the result its not only their fault! other facts contributed to this, like company pressure to save fuel, time etc, etc etc that might be happened...
How is it legal to fly with one pack defective? Wouldn't it be extremely dangerous if the second pack broke during flight resulting in no fresh air in the cabin?
There are ram air scoops to deliver fresh air if needed. The aircraft would slowly depressurize if the second pack failed but between descending and oxygen masks everyone would be okay.
As a Brazilian, I think it's too precipitated and quite mean to assume that it was the pilot's fault, considering that the inquiry is still to be completed. The preliminary investigations show the plane had deicing malfunctions, the plane had gone through maintenance several times before the crash, so to me, it seems more of a company negligence, rather than a human error alone. No aviation accident happens because of a single reason. As @pedromelicias6124 said, "I wouldn't make such a strong allegation with only a preliminary report in hand"
Brazilian 737 driver here. Very well content and video. It is very unfortunate, but truth what you have said and shown. And i have to thank you for having the guts to do it and show it. Thank you. You got a new sub.
Making a proper point and possibly saving lives is worth the time you put in to make the videos! Ive made a couple Re-creations myself I specified I do not want any tips for those videos. Usually in my videos I leave tip links but those videos I do not. Great job 👏
This is the most solid overview I've seen yet. Still terrible to watch. I used to be a mechanic on ATR72s before I was an airline pilot. Jumpseat on them a few times throughout Alaska.
VMC is the speed you see just before you crash. To begin with most light twins are a disaster on one engine. Any emphasis on VMC being some kind of safe speed will kill you. Multi engine training has always been unrealistic.
As the name says, this is a preliminary report. Also, you can see on the report that the request to descend was a "top of descent", not a request because of icing. But most important, even if the final report points several contributing factors about the pilots, you should remember that they also lost their lives. Their families and friends have to deal with the grief and also see the faces of their loved ones being used in thumbnails like the one in this video. You can talk about the facts and be respectful at the same time. Look at the channel "Aviões e Músicas". It is from Brazil. The guy is respected in his field, has millions of subscribers, makes a lot of money, and you'll never see him pointing his finger in cases like this.
Something we will never know is how used to this kind of warnings they were. Sometimes people go through warning so often and nothing serious happen that they start to ignore it and think it normal. "oh it's fine, don't overreact just because this ice warning or low speed, happens all the time" It's like when you do some shit on the road and it works and u start to feel confident enough to do it always. I have no idea if this is the case, but I wonder if it can help to explain their lack of matter for all these signs
The deicing system repeatedly turning on and off was likely due to a malfunction, with the pilots making several attempts to keep it running (possibly because the system never fully activated). Repeating the process might eventually cause it to stay on.
Being certified to fly in icing conditions doesn't mean the airplane is ice proof. The result of an ATR flying into severe icing condition with some malfunctions spoke for itself, and it was not the first, second or third time. This type of airplane has a history of many similar incidents and crashes. This crew believed they were doing the best they could, but unfortunately it was not enough If I had a relative who was as a passenger in that crash, I would be deeply in pain. If I were the father / son of any of the involved pilots, I would be even more in pain, specially after watching a video and comments full of overly unnecessary remarks.
But you are none of those people, and yet you are offended. As far as being a pilot goes, I am hard on myself too. I truly feel for the sufferings of the loved ones, but I’m more concerned with emphasizing to other pilots the errors that were committed here in order to save future families from going through what these families are going through.
@@flyingformoney777 It's true. I'm not one of them, but it doesn't mean I can't put my self on their shoes. As a pilot, I believe that the concepts of leadership don't give me the right to act hard because it would brake the communication chain with the crew, and I am the final one who most need to receive the best communication and the best preformace from the crew. This is only achievable on a good created environment. Statistically, any crew member, including me and you, make at least 5 minor mistakes during any flight. So in my opinion, being too hard or either too soft is undesirable, specially when dealing with thousands of lives each month.
The aircraft ATR 72 is certificate for flight in know Icing Conditions, but the difference in this case is they flew in SEVERE ICING CONDITIONS. In this condition is not certificate any Commercial Aircraft.
I did quite a bit of research. The NTSB is not involved in this investigation. But the Brazilian equivalent has released portions of both the flight data recorder and voice recorder.
I'm Brazilian, I have 3 pilots friends whom can't say in public what you said, but it's clear what happened. I agree with you and somebody has to blow the whistle.
what? why? is the headless mule gonna come after them? the curupira? herobrine? they dont WANT to say it, but they always could, you're not in venezuela anymore.
I heard audios on whatsapp from pilots talking about this hours after the tragedy. Basically, they know this since the beginning... they was just wanting to have shure there is no malfunction on the plane
🇧🇷here good video Well explained, here in Brazil the situation is not very good with the Twitter ban, I practically don't know any news, I'm just going through life blindly and find out about updates through your very well explained video
Of course you used the pilot’s picture. And yes, it should be depersonalized, you are not right. It just shows you have no basic understanding of what a crash means as a whole. An aviation accident is all about how did we get here. What was lacking in the training process, in the assesment, in the evaluation. Does the airplane have any vulnerability? Does the standard procedure have a vulnerability? If you personalize this and point the finger to an individual, you shift the focus and remove the responsability to change things. Companies (like ATR) loves that, we should’t encourage such social behaviour. This is why I just cannot watch this video. You are off to a very bad start and the rest is irelevant to me, I’ll watch a professional.
I am a professional. A decade of flight safety investigation and writing for aviation magazines. Twenty as a pilot. 10,000 hours experience. Airline captain, instructor and check airman. There are other factors besides the pilots, but the buck stops with them. That’s what we agree to when we start flying.
@@flyingformoney777 Very good for you. I am sure you are competent when it comes to flying. You also have a decade of flight safety investigastion yet you don’t like to depersonalize it. But that’s the thing. It’s a human trait to blame an incompetent person in your area of expertise. It makes you happy about the fact that you are so good you will never make such stupid mistakes. This is why all the pilots in your comments agree with this approach. But analyzing aviation crashes is a very sensible and quite different topic compared to flying. Make it about the pilot, publicly humiliate his mistakes and as I said before, you shift the focus in the wrong way. Poor example: Blame the person who forced the door in on a DC10 instead of blaming the company for allowing this to happen and McDonnell Douglas will be very happy about this approach in an aviation magazine. It will relieve the public pressure and makes it easier to cut corners and reach certain agreements with FAA. Same thing here. Let’s instead focus on the problems that let this kind of incompetence enter the cockpit.
You are not wrong in much of what you say. There should be other factors scrutinized such as training and operational control of the airline. I do not disagree at all. I would guess that the pilots were very capable in many areas, but for whatever reason they failed to take their perilous situation seriously.
🇧🇷here good video Well explained, here in Brazil the situation is not very good with the Twitter ban, I practically don't know any news, I'm just going through life blindly and find out about updates through your very well explained video
Noob here: Is this behavior something that airlines do some pressure over in order to avoid some other troubles like costs or something else, like even if it’s something not official from the company culture?
The pilots continued in icing conditions for an hour after the deice equipment failure. There will be some other details in the final report, but nothing that will excuse that poor decision on their part.
@@flyingformoney777 Ok, but are you sure this is the correct procedure even for a stall recovery? Especially for ATR? Max power first? Are you sure? (;
@@flyingformoney777 Yeah, but adding power usually causes the nose-up moment and increases AoA. If I remember correctly, for ATR the procedure also includes flaps 15 if the flaps are up.
@@ClouDAction. It can cause nose up in an aircraft with engines mounted below the center of gravity, but even then you’ve still got to add power unless you cannot control the aircraft.
Ok. So you are saying that the pilots are guilt. Only the pilots? Who Dispatched this flight on this Flight Level into known severe icing conditions? How is the maintenance of this acft? ATR should be prohibited to fly in severe icing conditions because this acft is critical and there were many accidents and incidents regarding this acft in the past. I flew this acft. I hated.. heavy workload, critical during icing conditions and etc. But the solution is to blame the pilots. I don't agree. There are many others factors involved.
Did you fly this acft? I disagree with you. ATR with severe icing should be on ground independent of pilot mistake. They were the last barrier to avoid the accident. Many other situations happened before. I flew this type rating. As I told you before. I hated. We always flew on limit Subject to mistakes. It is easy to Blame the pilots now.
