Cobain Factor: Why David Foster Wallace Killed Himself 

"Do some charity work." What a cold, thoughtless thing to say to a person who's been struggling with depression for most of his life. David Foster Wallace was right: people have become desensitized, and it clearly shows with that smug, cynical woman who probably thinks showing even a shred of sympathy is too unhip for her image.

"pulling a kurt cobain"???? what does that even mean? what an idiotic remark.

A brief interview with hideous people.

No wonder a smart person like Wallace was depressed with this kind of company, and no wonder he's the one who produced the best work

“Do some charity work.” might be one of the most vile, insensitive and willfully ignorant utterances I’ve ever had the displeasure to ingest. That statement should haunt her for the rest of her life and career.

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill oneself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.” -David Foster Wallace

Unbelievable people. Just the opposite of what David Foster Wallace represented.

The woman who says "do some charity work" is clearly uneducated in depression at any level. She is shameful for making such a harsh comment about what she knows nothing.

What the actual fuck. This literally made me sick. It's one of those moments where you witness something so cruel and stupid that you even fail to rationalize how many things are just... fucking wrong. Rest in Piece, David. You will be forever missed.

What an incredibly inane conversation regarding David Foster Wallace and his life long struggle to create and communicate and reach out. He was known as a kind and generous person and was undeniably a genius of almost unfathomable talent and humanity. He was not jaded, not bored by life, and most certainly not a selfish human being. He was a keen observer of life and human behavior and struggled for decades to overcome the mental illness that he suffered from. His suicide was not a 'stunt' or a premeditated play for publicity. His work and his reputation as a writer and thinker were firmly established and the number of awards and enormous amount of recognition he garnered in his life were, if anything, a bit uncomfortable for him and he did not write to win accolades, but to communicate a sense of hope beyond the ironic, which he felt was a cop-out intellectually and led to a sort of solipsism that he felt was a trap and cynical and selfish. Had this panel, collectively, had half of his intelligence, humor, insight, and humanity, it would never have presented such a sophmoric response to a great and terrible loss as was the passing of David Foster Wallace. It is sadly clear and clearly illustrated in this nonsensical "conversation" just how much lack of education and understanding there still exists on the issue of mental illness and the stigma associated with it. What a 'below the belt' and obviously simplistic perspective on a huge and troubling issue.

did she seriously just say "do some charity work." ?

Re-title this clip “Lesser minds slander two of the greatest artists of the last thirty years in three minutes or less.”

I actually feel bad for clicking on this video. It's insensitive.

How on earth could you ever discuss why somebody killed themselves. How can that person overtly state "was he pulling a Curt Cobain"? That women seems so intent on not giving in to a hatred of herself that she has resorted to scorning the dead. Like a comment below states; work is immortalised by the content itself, and what it does for people.

I wouldn't have guessed that these people who consider themselves close to DFW to trivialize his death in such a cruel manner.

I watched the whole 90 minutes of this and some unbelievable insensitivity to his suicide. They all drove me nuts, especially the woman from the New Yorker who is incapable of answering a question in a straightforward manner with genuine emotion. Everything she says is rationalised to death. Who talks and feels like that in real life? Like caricatures of NY intellectuals in a Woody Allen movie.

I'll tell you why he killed himself. i struggle with it everyday. it's called having lots of Empathy in a world where so many have so little empathy. A world where you know the the most greedy, selfish, highly intelligent psychopaths have stolen our spirituality, and got us fighting and hating each other as a way to keep us from coming together as one and over throwing these tyrants who are manipulating humanity to their own ideals. Knowing all this, makes a person not want to exist in a world like this. Heaven is here, but we allow these assholes to make it our hell. When you get it, you don't want to live here, cause you don't want your soul to be corrupted. And sometimes you just want to leave before you become something you don't want to be.

Anyone touched by the suicide of a loved one or one who is sensitive and compassionate OR suffers from depression would find the insensitivity of the comments : "charity work" and "pulling a Cobain" to be unbearably cruel and ignorant. I would like to see how enlightened these people would be in the hell of endless, suffocating depression.

It is a disease that I would not wish on anyone. I've been bipolar my entire life and Been hospitalized twice. Is a shame and an agony that is day and day out. It has made me a more compassionate person. The lines that I told myself when I took pills and wrote a note is that the world will be better off without me. I am too much of a burden. I am beyond blessed to have survived to write this to all of you. Just be kind and listen to others and this world will be a much better place ❤ You have no idea how much a smile or a kind word to someone could save their life.

I watch this video to remind myself why people no longer read, I read Wallace to remind myself why I still do

I actually feel relieved at how many people have condemned what’s happening here in the comment section

"Do some charity work"?

Anyone who thinks DFW killed himself to immortalize his own legacy cannot have read or understood a single sentence he ever wrote

Ridiculous to think that Cobain had to kill himself to achieve immortality. He was a magnificently gifted performer/musician whose physical and mental maladies took him down...

dfw elaborates on their answers when he said people just want to sound "clever" rather than know the truth.

Who else could've said such a vile thing but Mary Karr? She still seems to be really bitter about the failed relationship with him and most likely envies his success as a writer in comparison to her and to such a degree that she can't help but try to ruin his legacy ten years after he's been dead..What a ...

"He couldn't write anymore." Is that why his last novel, although unfinished, was a pulitzer finalist?

If one has not experienced bone crushing depression, don't say anything.

Wow.. these people are awful and completely contrary to what DFW has put forward over and over, which is being compassionate, mindful, and making good decisions about how to live is extremely difficult. It never stops being difficult, and for those who are crippled by depression and anxiety it's exceedingly difficult. The suggestion "do some charity work" that sets off another audience member snickering is completely sickening.

Killing oneself is NOT selfish. NOT taking the time and work to fully understand your loved one's pain and do everything in your power to help them, is what is selfish. Every human being is self-absorbed but sensitive people like DFW can easily empathize with others' pain. He knew it was difficult to explain to people what depression is really like. Good lord did he try but since no one close to him could really grasp what he was going through, they assumed he would be alright. When no one understands what you're going through, the world can seem very lonely and pointless.

This is vicious and incorrect.

“Was he pulling a Kurt Cobain”, no because A) Kurt may have been murdered and B) David was not some fame freak. He did interviews for his books and his success was the result of his writing talent. There’s a lot of unwarranted blame in that question.

What a perfect demonstration of the ignorance and arrogance (and soft malevolence that it breeds) of intellectuals.

Completely agree. Even 5 years later, I'm still sad he's gone. An absolutely brilliant mind being criticized by that dullard in the audience. It's disgusting.

Wow one of the few videos on youtube where the comments actually give me faith in humanity... I definitely agree with the sentiment that the panel does a terrible job with this question....

After doing some research online and from personally having lived experience with the hell of psych drug withdrawal I can say my view is David Foster Wallace died from Phenelzine (Nardil) withdrawal. It lasted about a year with him, day in day out, he tried everything but nothing helped once the psychiatrist withdrew it. Psychiatrists need to learn what happens to the unlucky group who developProlonged Acute Withdrawal, its a hell beyond words. A touching interview with his sister: Amy Wallace speaks about her brother David Foster Wallace - RU-vid

what is worse with depression is that sometimes its hard to admit we are depressed. Its because a high pride, or loneliness, or expectation from others.

After hearing what she had to say about DFW, I'm not sure if I want to read her memoirs much less her poetry.

someone who struggles wit depression and the dark thoughts, I would say giving reasons can often make someone feel even worse about themselves, the idea of how your going to be a burden to all this people while your alive or dead, ugh its hard to explain with depression because getting up or even wanting to waking up another day is a life struggle.

What an abomination this panel is. Even the title of this video is repulsive. This is someone's very bad idea and it's an insult to humanity not just to Kurt and David.

How can this get unseen by me? Such a disaster! :-(

I was really disappointed by this section. I know that Mary Karr and David Foster Wallace's relationship was very volatile and Wallace was very nasty to her, which may have sparked some of the spite in her comment. But as a comment on depression, saying "do some charity work," is incredibly flippant and not at all understanding how deep into a pit of despair depression can take you, especially when it is severe and battled over decades like it was for him. It's a little bit of a shame. Most of this discussion was actually quite good, and this comment doesn't take away from that. I learned a lot about Wallace I didn't know before.

My question exactly! I'm a psychology major and I try to reduce stigma against mental illness as much as I can in my direct environment by informing people and stuff. Bitches like these who say: 'do some charity work' have no idea what depression is like and have no clue of what it is like to wake up every morning feeling useless, out of energy, and sad.

"do some charity work" someone clearly doesn't understand how uniquely cathartic writing is to a writer. what an arrogant thing to say, which also reeks of unsolicited virtue-signaling

"O My Lord, the poor one hath verily hastened unto the Kingdom of Thy wealth, the stranger unto his home within Thy precincts, he that is sore athirst to the heavenly river of Thy bounty. Deprive him not, O Lord, from his share of the banquet of Thy grace and from the favor of Thy bounty." ~ Baha'i Prayer

As someone who lost the love of my life to sudden and shocking suicide - and have been dead inside myself ever since - I really don't appreciate these people theorising and casually dissecting the great, great David Foster Wallace.

The "do some charity work" comment is the only thing I have a real problem with here. The man and woman on the right are handling the question with compassion and tact. I don't see why everyone is so full of hate for them.

I think suicide is just one more way we seek to control ourselves, our lives, our experiences, and how we relate to the universe. It's not all that special or unique in that regard.

Is there a more extended version of this discussion? I agree with a lot of the comments below r.e. seemingly callous remarks about depression but a little context could be helpful.

Famous people with depression don't kill themselves for a legacy and to be more famous. They do it because of depression. It's a disorder. I have it too not all of us make it. It's basically minor, moderate, and major. Obviously he had major. It's good that people that don't have it ask questions but frankly it's a long-term disease that causes pain every day so please don't act surprised when one of us throws in the towel. My friend Stephanie just did it last year after a long fight -- she was 27.

He literally says why someone would kill themselves while he’s still alive. He told us why.

“Pulling a Kurt Cobain” she says like it was a running gag. This is just thoughtless

Whoever said "do some charity work" deserves to be curb-stomped.

Depression is a neurobiological disease that cannot always be successfully treated medically. People who want attention may threaten suicide, but if they make an attempt it is usually a weak one. Suicide as with DFW is not done out of selfishness. The hopeless despair felt cannot be understood by "normal" people. The pain of living becomes so unbearable it defies logic, reason or even love. It is a ruthless killer of people from all strata--a tragedy in every case.

I've suffered Bipolar Disorder before it was readily diagnosed. I finally did obtain effective medications, but I still had a breakthrough 9 month period of deepest black depression, every single moment of every single day. One day may Dad started giving me the "Well, just pull yourself up by your boot-straps" advice. For the first time in my life, I spoke back in sheer anger at my Dad: "You don't know what the hell you're talking about." Then I gave him a list of books that if he cared to understand it, he might read rather than talk off the top of his head. Months later, maybe even after the depression had lifted, I found him actually talking halfway intelligently about the matter. To my complete surprise, he had read the books and gained some understanding.

The first woman's response is logical and sensitive, and so is the man's, perhaps to a lesser extent. The only thing ruining this video is that stupid, flippant comment about charity work.

The only redeeming thing about viewing this video, is seeing how many others are disgusted by the level of insensitivity and presumptuousness and callousness these people are displaying about the life of a wonderful fucking human being. Kurt Cobain factor? Do some charity work? This is exactly why I love to read intelligent, sensitive, compassionate authors: escape from the cruelty and stupidity of the world.

"It's not like you wake up one day and say I'm going to 'self-delete' myself; you wake up every single day asking yourself how could I not?"

You have a right to your personal perspective, so keep in mind that one person's struggle is not a template for everyone else to follow. If a person has many talents upon which to draw for personal meaning--as well as the vital quality of resiliency, which you apparently possess--then the odds are in that person's favor. It's not about weakness v. strength, IMO. It's about what's in one's personal survival toolkit. Kudos to you for being well-equipped. Not everyone's that lucky.

Dude was not prepared with a question at all

The comments on the woman, saying do some charity work were in my opinion somewhat unfair. I am 64 and have suffered with major depression most of my life. One serious attempt to kill myself in 2004. Have tried many different types of anti-depressants, none helped ! .We can all say the wrong thing at some time. In this ladies case, it is only, I think, that she cannot have any understanding of what it is like. I do however think the original question/statement about Cobain to be silly and in poor taste!

Whichever woman says, “Do some charity work...” What a cold, insensitive thing to say. I can only hope she knew him personally and is grieving and speaking in anger because she misses him. If not, she has a lot of work to do on developing empathy.

Me clicking this video - a supposedly fun thing I’ll never do again.

Cobain didn't off himself to achieve immortality, he became a huge rockstar and didn't realize it would become just a job like any other. He became responsible for a wife, kid, mortgage payments, a huge staff of techs, roadies, nannies - everyone dependent on someone who didn't want the job. Add to that a hopeless H addiction, bipolar disorder, and stomach pain - not much joy in that world.

I can't recall what he said at this point. I remember something about him *insinuating* that Wallace had homicidal tendencies and that certain of the characters in Brief Interviews were based on him. Some of those characters were sociopaths and one was a sociopathic rapist/murder. Maybe that's true, but it's not something you obliquely insinuate about your recently dead friend, leaving readers to make the worst possible interpretations.

It was his brief look into math logic And intellectual loneliness I believe he saw to the end of everything and lost hope

I had no idea he took his own life. After reading the comments, I'm going to have to prepare myself for some extreme insensitivity...

Tormented Man Kills Self. Women (annoyed wife, belittling panelists, Mary Karr, et al): This is Now All About Me.

How dare these people turn one man's torment into speculation and spectacle! They are completely clueless about the agonies of serious mental illness. Five minutes in their company would make me want to leap into the void.

When you’re so depressed for so long eventually you just want it to stop. The deep pain that comes with not caring about anything can’t be understated. I guarantee these people you can’t volunteer for charities out of this and he didn’t do it to cement his fame or whatever. Whenever people are desperate enough to commit suicide it’s because living has gotten too painful and the seduction of nonexistence has become too great. People who don’t know any better are so confused why anyone would kill themselves when they have so much to be thankful for and maybe these people are even jealous of their success (you have what I want so why aren’t you happy?) The value of life doesn’t come from trappings of success or even how many people around you love you. It comes from experiencing it in all it’s emotional color. Depressed people only see grey. One event isn’t much different from the next. Life becomes so tedious and boring day in day out and you don’t see any point to any of it. Imagine sitting in a small white room with bright fluorescent lighting and being asked to press a button 24/7. You don’t know the reason for it but you know you have to keep doing it. Sometimes someone over the intercom will cheerily announce that you pressed the button X amount of times. You know you’re supposed to be excited about that but you’re just not. Do you really think that someone in that state of mind cares about anything when it all feels so trivial?

I really didn't get the same vibe from the Franzen article that you did. What I took from it was that he felt deep grief and simply could not understand why his best friend would kill himself (i.e., Kübler-Ross's anger stage as applied to mourners). He was still processing it all. In all honesty, I don't know if DFW would have wanted anything other than Franzen's honest, flawed expression of grief. Although I haven't read everything DFW wrote, what I have read leads me to that inference.

This is absurd. He was depressed. Tried to switch to a new medication with fewer side effects. It didn’t work. Went back to the old medication. It no longer worked. Brains are weird that way. He held on as long as he could then couldn’t stand it anymore.

im glad i have empathy

"Pulling a Kurt Cobain". How ignorant, callous and insulting to both men and really anyone affected by suicide and mental illness. As it happens, Franzen's article was itself a nasty piece containing vicious innuendo. With friends like him, DFW wouldn't have needed enemies.

Wow.. anytime I ever think or someone else thinks I'm a cruel heartless bastard I'll have to save this video to hear that lady. Geez.

Disgusting people. I’m at a complete loss how the people in the panel seem to lack any understanding of suicide and the mechanisms and circumstances that cause it.

Suicide is NEVER a very clever thing to do - period.

When I think of suicide, there is a balance. On one hand, I will never accept it. It cannot be the right answer. On the other hand, who’s to judge. This world can be cruel and they deserve love anyways.

I've been depressed. I chose to improve myself.

The Federer piece is an absolutely astonishingly beautiful work of pure imagination.

People need to have something to be depressed about. Saying that it is depression alone is just generalising.

"Pulling a Kurt Cobain." What a horrible phraseology. It isnt a fucking game.

DFW was on an MAOI medication and had ECT prior to his death. MAOIs are the med of last resort for those with intractable depression. This was some glib BS.

This is his charity work.

the best often die by their own hand and the rest of us cant understand why they would leave us.

Sure. As if it's always a reason more complicated than the fact that someone simply no longer wants to be here.

The panelists obviously don't know anything about Cobain and his death.

I'm more interested in what he would have written about this discussion.

Reminds me of that Norm Macdonald bit on suicide and people always saying they "don't understand why," to which Norm says "You don't?! You don't know about life? How it only disappoints and then it ends in a catastrophe? Do you live inside a cotton candy house or something? The fuck?"

Literally armchair psychologists

That sort of association is often pursued by those who can't tell the difference between causality and coincidence.

There is no way this 'roommate' really knew anything about DFW, certainly not the pain he would have endured to do what he did. It says in the blurb above 'Costello, probably the person who best understood Wallace.' Really??? The person who said he ended his life in order to 'pull a Cobain' and be more famous??? This is going through NO ONE'S head when they take their own life. Not one person. And yes, as for the charity comment? Wow, just mind blowing ignorance.

Holding a panel to try and tease out reasons of one's suicide frustrates me simply because it's such a complex issue, there's never one overriding factor, but I disagree with you on his inability to write. Given writing can function not only as a career but also as a means of expression it's unfair to say that's 'trivial'. Give Sylvia Plath's The Bell Jar a read, being unable to write seemed to be her most significant reason for attempting suicide.

I would really like to know who this panel consists of. Times have changed since they had the luxury of sitting up on their pedestals to judge others. If you have information on this panel please let me know, I would love to interview them as a follow up to see if they've progressed in their thought process or not.

well, I think we now understand better why he killed himself, but maybe not in the way these people intended for us to understand.

I am fed up with people putting things down to "mental illness" and overlooking the very obvious: Psychiatric drug withdrawal and brain damage from Electroconvulsive 'Therapy'. People will often defend psychiatric drugs because when a person goes off them, they become erratic. People mistakenly assume that because they are not taking the drugs that their "illness" is reemerging when in actual fact it's chronic withdrawal from the drugs. "Oh, he couldn't write anymore." - Well could you write going through psychiatric drug withdrawal and after sustaining permanent brain damage from ECT?

This type of soulless talk is why he did what he did. A member of “panel” is the purest example of what one should strive NOT to be.

This makes me want to pull a Kurt Cobain

Panels are for people who no one wants to interact with directly.

Kurt Cobain definitely didn’t kill himself to be immortalized in that aspect. I read everything there is on him and if he did in fact kill himself, he was extremely depressed, confused, lonely, etc. with his whole new life that just appeared over night.