Really appreciate the honesty and transparency in the blind taste test. Others seem to have used the tested grinders so much that they always know which is which and are never surprised by the results, always just repeating the marketing labels for the burrs, which is a little hard to believe sometimes. Thanks for this video and comparison, the df83 looks very intriguing if the stock burrs can deliver on both espresso and filter at a high level, especially with the improvements in grind time and usability vs the 64
Yeah - there was this whole bit of monologue I had removed prior to guessing the cups - as I was literally expecting the DF83 to be the overly heavy body - no acidity espresso! and was very very surprised with the results. It basically went - "The Df83 is a whole new grinder, and you're not in essence buying a bigger better DF64." -- and this is still true. Though I was expecting to be disappointed with it flavour profile - and whilst I didn't highlight it enough in the video - in hindsight - it actually was my favourite cup across both the Espresso and Filter tasting 👌
@@AlternativeBrewingjust curious, how does it perform when dosing directly into a pf? I’ve found it very convenient when a grinder can dose effectively directly vs using a dosing cup, but something like the df64 isn’t great in that regard.
Hands-free or holding the PF? The DF84 - I would us ehte dosing ringsupplied - or your own - but otherwise - is very good. FWIW - my daily driver is a Eureka Single Doser - and I use a dosing ring - and direct grind - I just hold the PF there whilst it gridns out. Its like 10secs 👌
Actually it might look that way, but having cupped and gotten enough you actually start seeing a pattern, you’ll be surprised what you with practice can detect. In a brew people can detect with training specific flaws in the beans like a beetle attack, so you can definitely repeatedly learn to discern burrs, but often it requires some familiarity with the burrs or something familiar with it. 83mm usually have a very distinct profile so surprisingly easy to pick out, the same with MP burr’s incredible easy to pick out.
Great video. must say the DF83 is very compelling at its price point. Would LOVE to see a head to head with the Niche Zero. I currently have the Niche, but feel tempted to swap it for the DF83 if it can at least keep up with the Niche for espresso but can also be a solid filter grinder, which the Niche doesn't do well.
I would never go back to conical burrs again.For me flat burrs are just the best.Im having eureka single oro and after one espresso I sold my niche same week ..:D
Great video and love your honest reviews / taste testings. I have been looking at this or DF64 and still left confused on what's best for my espresso. It seems like the DF64 gave the DF83 a very good run for its money ($600 vs $1500).
Thanks for watching! Yeah absolutely! Speed and power - the DF83 is great. However they're are some very good arguments to be made about the 64mm Burr range - and this alone excites me.
Just by your descriptions In cupping I could almost say what cup belongs to what burrs. I know these burrs all to well, it was exactly as I imagined these would line up with the SSP HU and Italmill 64mm at the bottom and MP at the top with the 83mm slot in-between the two. Espresso is a challenging thing small changes and it can screw things up, I know the MP and it definitely should be higher then the other in clarity there as well, it dos show SSP in espresso is a knifes edge, step beside that edge and performance is as follows. The HU ended at the bottom is frankly as expected I never likes those burrs and always with some astringency to them. I definitely look forward to the SSP Cast 83mm as the cast in 64mm setting in my Ode is actually my favourite burrs among all 64mm, plenty of clarity but without given up on sweetness and texture. I do think with such burrs this would be a fantastic value grinder.
Great authentic video. I think there is too much confirmation bias in the other videos. Seems like 99.99% of espresso afficionados can just get the DF64 standard burrs and spend the rest of their life just improving their taste buds. I had a motorcycle racing coach once tell us "You have no idea how fast your bike can go if you weren't on it". Pretty much all the equipment around us has gone beyond normal human limitations but it is hard for us to accept that.
Haha! The Australoan DF83 is going to be hard to beat. With the DLC burrs ... if you're upgrading burrs on a DF83 otherwise , it's very expensive , around $500aud for a new set of good 83mm burrs. DF64 on the other hand - burrs are about half as much. If you're chasing the some thing, between both grinders - it is achievable on the DF64 for a lot cheaper.
Yeah, that's a tough one! How much space do you have on the bench 😂 The Df83 is almost twice the size of the tiny DF64V. 64mm have many more burr options down the line, and would suit filter as well as espresso... whereas the DF83 is a beast for Espresso IMHO. A bit of clean grinding with the DF83 but if it were me, I'd probably go with the DF64V.
@@AlternativeBrewinghi josh, im planning the same but i only drink espresso, would you recommend the df64v with a set of burrs for improve the espresso
I have a Eureka Mignon Facile 50mm grinder that works well, drink Latte's, Med roast coffee with 4.5 oz milk and 10ml sweetener do you think it would be worth the upgrade to a DF83 with the DLC burrs, I'm using a Mara x machine the Eureka works well, a little slow but do you think espresso would be better ?
No in all honesty - if you not chasing something specific to the espresso flavour in the cup - or perhaps faster, cleaner, or transitioning to a single dosing workflow and this all appeals - It's not worth it
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you for your Honesty, I forgot to tell you I have my Eureka set for single dose, with optional large grinder dial adjuster, incline stand, and bellows and so far it's the fresh coffee that make the big difference, Im lucky have a local roaster that sell around 9 blends and sells a U.S. pound for S12.99 & $13.99 and there are around 150 plus coffee roasters in Washington State where I live :)
mate, my Australian viewers are asking where to find kc-201 digital scale in Australia (I reviewed earlier in my channel), can you suggest shop or retailer to find one ? cheers 😉
I believe in the Espresso range this was so , yes - but in the filter range - it was the MP burrs that had the most clarity. For the espresso range - I propose it may have had something to do with the ease of dialling it in. - That is, you take a very static method to brew espresso - with 4 varied burrs - - using two sets of coffees - it's not the best and fairest results for each burrs set. I could use better techniques and approaches to brewing espresso with the HU SSP Espresso Burrs - and this may yield a far great results than is possible with any other burrs - though you'd then have to proscribe as much to the methods used as the Grinder. With more tests - I would push each grinder to limits of use and extractions of espresso and filter - and dive deeper into the flavour profiles 👌
All round Grinders for sure. They have a very good precise and accurate grinding across the whole range. Being flat burrs they do a great job of this. Less expensive Grinders tend to get either less consistency in a coarse grind, or at finer grinds they tend not to have the scope of fine grind adjustment. The DF64 & DF83 has both 😀
Surprised you said the MP's weren't too picky when dialing in, maybe you got lucky with that one? I think the standard burrs are easier to dial in because it has more fines. SSP MP should have less fines than the HU Espresso Burrs. Taste test for espresso surprised me as well, although a bit confused about the end results, the highest clarity one was the MP burrs? Followed by the DF83? Are you sure you didn't mix up the cups? That's what I'd do lol When I had MP and HU beside eachother I thought they were similar with the HU having a bit less flavour clarity, but I didn't notice a huge difference with espresso going from stock DF64 burrs to HU espresso burrs, when I tried a aeropress or pour over though the HU had noticeably less fines and It was apparent from the taste in the cup. The SSP Cast burrs are the only 64mm burrs I thought were high in body, but also very low in clarity, although people claim it might improve after 30lbs of seasoning :O I haven't done that. Not sure any of my grinders were really well aligned.
I'd say the MP was only easy to dial in - as it was after I had struggled with the HU burrs 😂 I took a similar grind setting and approach to small changes from the HU and used it to dial in the MP and found the right setting sooner 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing Maybe something was up with those HU burrs or alignment or grinder. I noticed on some DF64s the declumper or the grinder is better behaved in some and worse in others. I've had a bunch but only had the one DF83 and it seems like they learned from DF64s weaker areas.
Curious what serial # DF83 you got? Mine was 12 I think, it didn't come with that silicon angled cup holder which is pretty neat but not sure it's really necessary since it grinds so straight and nicely (at least on mine, no RDT needed). I think mine has better retention than what you claimed (RDT might be the problem?) it probably could be used without the bellows, I'm curious to try it like that.
The silicone dosing cup adapter was first introduced to the DF64 and is exclusive to the Australian and New Zealand models and not available on other DF models around the world. Basically it allows you to easily load and unload the dosing cup as well as let you use alternative dosing cups such as stainless steel if you wish.
@@FrankiesBeansMachines oh nice. That is a good addition then if you can use an alternative dosing cup with it too. A Tilted or closer cup holder mod is definitely more needed on the 64 vs 83 though.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l Also if you're grinding coarse the static might seem worse because the larger pieces of chaff separates easier from the coffee and gets statically attracted to the grinder chute rather than some fine coffee dust you might not see as much (with espresso grind).
Biggest question I'd ask myself is - Do you single dose your beans? Or are looking too? If yes - the DF83 👌 - However, if you're not interested in single dosing beans - then go the Libra
If we're just sticking with stock burrs, how does the espresso compare to something like the niche? I want to use it 95% for espresso. I only do milk drinks so I like body but I do like some lighter roasts which is why I'm not sold on the niche and seems like this might be a better option of balancing body and clarity with the stock burrs. What do you think?
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks! does it still do a great job tho for the medium/dark roasts when im in the mood for them? i know the niche is the king of workflow, but is this one great as well?
It is improved. same but better really - added components to improve all round performance remarkably. There's nothing like the OG - but manufactures are getting great at tweaking OG designs with using better materials, adding strong motors and such 🫶
Yes I would. There's good hand grinders- and then there's great Automatic Grinders. The DF83 is a one of these. RPM's could be slower - but overa;ll - the consistency in the fact it has a motor - as opposed to hand cranking - means you get the same result every time.
Different story completely - though those 83mm burrs are $500+ on their own - so that's some price to pay for Grinder and new burrs - the question remains - would the DF83 with SSP burrs be any better than a DF64 with the same SSP burrs - ... yes, marginally - would it be worth an extra $1000+ in the difference - probably not
From Desc Red = DF64 SSP Red Speed Espresso HU White = DF64 SSP Multiplurpose Burrs Blue = DF64 S/S Burrs Yellow = DF83 S/S Burrs Espresso Blind Tasting Results: Red - Heavy texture, full body, muted acidity, rich lingering aftertaste White - All-rounder, Creamy Texture, balanced acidity and sweetness. Medium Body Yellow - My favourite - Bright and Sweet, with just enough body to add texture to be lingering, and not take away from the lighter floral and fruitier notes. Blue - Full bright acidity and sweetness. Super clean, no texture, low body. Clean finish. Transparent. Filter Blind Tasting Results: Red - Full Body, Heavy Texture, low acidity and sweetness. Rich lingering aftertaste. Blue - Creamy Texture, medium acidity and sweetness. Medium finish. Yellow - All-rounder - Bright, sweet, medium texture. Transparent. White - Bright, juicy, high acidity, transparent flavours, light body, clean finish.
you mean the DF83 or DF64? ... using the RDT method does help a lot. Though this also just depends on where you are located. A more tropic area, with more humidity has less static - whereas a dry or high elevated area has more (in general).
The power cord had to go on the side as there is a capacitor that prevents the cord going out the back. We are trying to work on a solution to move the cable however if we come up with one it will not likely be in the short term. In regards to the whole unit rotating unfortunately we forgot to remove some tape we had placed on the rubber feet prior to sending the unit to Alternative Brewing for their review. I can assure you that it does not rotate once the tape has been removed.
I wouldn't say there are issues - they're things common on a lot of grinders - retention, static and noise are all present on every Grinder. I wouldn't say this is any more or less than some of the best gridners for retention - Niche, DF64, Eureka Mignon etc ... However - the Coffee Tech Gridners seem to be more open source - in the way, people find them easier to mod, so this tends to be a trend that happens with these grinders, more than others.
Have you ever taste tested 4 shots of expresso back to back using the same beans? It isn't that easy because so much flavor and texture lingers from the shot before it even when you wash it down with water. Add to that all the variables involved that are almost impossible to control for when you are shooting a video by yourself (like some shots had been sitting longer) and the best you can do is give a rough description of what stands out about the shot. Keep up the good work, another great, relevant video!
