COMPETITIVE TEAMS BATTLE IT OUT! - 3v3 Siege - Total War: Rome 2 

Pixelated's two favorite phrases, "sally-out" and "fiery balls". The day fiery balls do a sally-out will truly be his greatest commentary!

All of these Rome II videos have been getting me back into playing it lately. Very good content, thank you Apollo.

The thing that makes the stacking rule hard is exactly what we see at 1:06:16, its two different players controlling the pikes and the skirmishers, it requires a lot of communication and teamwork to push in those pikes and pull out the skirmishers at the same time to avoid stacking, it sounds as easy as just saying "Hey man pull out those skirmishers by the river, im moving in my pikes" but when your macro-ing entire armies in a siege battle like this and needing to pay attention to the micro work with flanks, arty, cav charges, and both players on the same team fighting in the same area, coordination with attacks becomes very confusing and can fluster many players. Im all for the No Stacking rule but I would also be very lenient on it and take it case by case because as we see here, its hard to coordinates pushing in pikes and pulling out troops especially if the skirmish unit as we see here is being played by a teammate.

When you’re down to a couple units making your last stand defences, you reinforce your pikes with whatever you have left to stop your troops breaking, i personally feel that everyone should be allowed to reinforce their pike units as long as you stick to 2 max pikes

Love you apollo! Glad to have some good entertainment during quarantine.

Historically different unit types were stacked together from time to time

Stacking pikes and swords is going go be difficult to stop in practice, especially if you have damaged units trying to hold a chokepoint. Limit pikes to 2 per army might be best compromise ?

I would say don't implement the stacking rule. It's hard with everything going on to guarantee there is absolutely no stacking. It'll only lead to arguments between players. It's in the game, let it go. Players keep archers in reserve anyway. If they see the stacking they can use archers or artillery for mass effect. IMO.

I think the stacking rule is BS. For one, as this video shows, it is hard to enforce if so many units of multiple players are mixed in the frontline. Secondly, reinforcing pike units with other infantry to support them at close range was done historically. It's one of the reasons why the Macedonian army was so deadly. So why should the players not be allowed to use their soldiers the same way?

Am so happy when you upload a new Rome 2 siege battle..the game aged so well and you make it even better with your commentary..best thing during quarantine

I've come up with a new version of rock, paper, scissors called cavalry, archers, pikemen. Cavalry beats archers, archers beat pikemen, and pikemen beat cavalry.

Hello all I was the selucid player that was attacking it was a good battle

Me:Locked at home Appolo:Seige Tournaments is starting .... Me:Pheew!! I can enjoy your vids every day.Thanks Appolo.

The stacking rule is really dumb. Stacking is fine. For fairness sake though, units that can do shield wall, shield screen, or testudo should not be allowed to stack with pikes.

Well, in my opinion they are already balanced by the "max-two-pikes" rule. If u think they are still op it would be easier just to ban them from challenges ( not good idea)

i always thought the sword and pike stack was part of the game i have been doing that since i first started playing

To be fair Apollo, in Spanish tertios in the 16th/17th centuries, the Spanish wold have swordmen inside the pike formation for the very same reason of making them extremely hard to break. So at least the exploit in a way is a historical one!

About that rule, here's my thought: Every single game will have exploits, and it's up to the players to be creative and find these and use these against opponents (the Olofmeister boost from csgo comes to mind here). Don't punish players for making certain decisions that might put them at a competitive advantage, it's the responsibility of devs to sort these things out. Players will have to be creative to find new ways to push through pikeformations and use archers/pila differently. Edit, maybe teams/players can ban civs or units pre-game?

I don't think the "interdiction to stack pikes and swordsmen rule" is a good idea. This rule is going to bring to much problems I think. Like for exemple if your pikemen are in a fight you can't even charge your swordsmen to fight because they could stack with the pikemen and protect them from arrows. I really think it's going to bring a lot of problems in game to make this rule respected, of courses some rules are needed to balance things, but in my opinion the less rules there is, the better, and I think this rule would be to much. And for the historical part, pikes are too weak to archers in the game compared to real life. Pikemen were not that weak, in real life only a little part of the arrows were passing throught the wall the pikes were forming around pikemen, plus pikemen had shields (even if they were not big shields). Also bows and arrows of this time period were not that good, they weren't longbows or anything, they weren't going through leather armor like a knife through butter, a straight hit on a good spot was needed if you really wanted to seriously injured the person wearing the leather armor. In this battle, I found this rule more annoying than "balancing" (don't get me wrong, I loved this battle !). I think too much rules and this rule in particular encroaches too much on the game and the tactics. But again, this is just my opinion. I hope my english is not too bad and I hope what I say is understandable, if not, I am really sorry.

“Can’t fit swordsmen in a group of pikemen.” Spanish Tercio: Am I a joke to you?

i don't feel like making a rule to ban pike men stacking will be good. someone might accidentally stack units when they are trying to make another maneuver ending in a faulty penalty on that team.

Battle starts at 6:04

Loving the Rome 2 content, but honestly all of your videos are dope. Shoutout as well to the Napoleon and LOTR videos! And I actually really like when you play new games as well. Yeah I like it all. Subbed. Edit: Also an advocate for no cheese. Don't sword stack on pikes.

Wheres the Link to CA comments regarding Pike stacking? My issue is that its only an exploit when it relates to Pikes but not any other unit. Stacking Units works much better with Sacred Band, Royal Spartans Ect.

I have been watching u since u were at 88K and i love your vids. you will always be my fav youtuber for i long time so keep uploading and never stop doing what u love

Gaugamela. The battle you're thinking about was Gaugamela where Alexander defeated Darius for the second time. But there were skirmishers in front of and amongst the sarissa pike phalanxes I thought, to counter the chariots by throwing stones, spears and shooting arrows at the chariots and their horses?

I been Waiting for this! Thankyouuuuuuu Keep Safe Apollo!

I always found it so easy to defend, I'm not sure why anyone would need to cheat. That said, part of the strength of pikeman was blocking arrows with the pikes.

48:00 what just happend to that guy on the Right 😂

This is the only game I play anymore. I love the game and these videos. Every time I sally out I think of Apollo saying “EPIC. CAV. SALLY. OUT” Love it!!!!

What if you did it so units with a curtain shield value or maybe it is only infantry that can't stack. The first thing will probably be a bit complicated in though

Thanks for the hard work Apollo, I think we all appreciate it very much.

Where is the tournament, like is there a website? @Apollo

I saw the questionable stack at the hr mark, i think it was a team miscommunication and awareness issue and I think PA was right about it being quickly fixed. The whole battle was even and the tqctics were thoughtful and expedient. Good coverage PA

As a player I think you could modify the no stacking rule, so that if the pike unit is engaged in melee then you should be able to stack but if its just sitting there then you should not be able to stack

Here's a problem with the no stacking pike rule say if you had a pike unit holding the street and you saw archers out of position they were near your pikes according with the rules you wouldn't be able to rush up infantry to kill the archers. I hope the tournament goes well.

stopping stacking is hard and hasnt been to much of a problem but i thing just try not do it when holding a point but if they are in a moshpit then there is nothing you can do

Pretty hard to determine. What if half the pike unit is dead? Can you stack then? Too hard to make a rule on that I think. You do what you have to to win. Dont worry about realistic. It's a game

About the pikes... Game's mecanics, Like it or not exploiting this type of things is what makes good players stand out. All strats in Total war are kind of based on bugs and unit placement - knowing where and when is best. So i think Max X pikes and play like gentelman :)

If both teams are doing the pike stacking, what’s the problem with it?

Hey, that’s me as Massilia

What a defense! They held their ground when they had to, were aggressive when needed and dealt a hevy blow at the end (Tylis' general taking out the enemy artillery). That won them the game IMO

That was one helluva fun battle! I cant wait to do it again soon. The attackers were tough but we held and with a bit of grace from the gods we made it happen. GG!

Finally!!! Another epic Total War: Rome 2 siege battle. Been waiting for this for some time.

Which ESport entity is helping out with this, Apollo. I have an aquaintance involved in collegiate tourneys.

Yo Apollo, will you play mount and blade 2: bannerlord when it comes out?

actually the thing about the pikes, historically some pple actually did that, just for the sake of close quarter engagements so if by any chance anyone was able to get pass the pikes they`d meet the swordsmen in combat protecting the pikes

i don't think I will ever get bored of these

2 ways to look at it; 1 - it's an exploit so no 2 - cloud they do it in real life? But the that messes the push through up because it's an exploit, BUT soldiers COULD push through back in the day

No stacking on pikes seems most historical and fairest way to go. I also think no deployables and only two Tortoises per faction.

I’ve been seeing this a lot more lately and I was think of getting their game on my laptop. Any advice, I have played before just not in years, so I’m very very sloppy

I say don’t add the stacking rule. It can be hard not to stack in certain situations, like when you have infantry fighting and you send pikes in to reinforce them. Additionally, any infantry units used to protect pikes through stacking will be unable to go and do something else, so instead of getting the full value of a sword unit you’re just getting anti-arrow protection for a pike unit. This trade off means that stacking on pikes isn’t that powerful. A better move would be to stack hoplites on pikes rather than swordsmen on pikes, as hoplites give better protection from arrows and aren’t that good for much else. However, they can make juicy artillery targets and the more you stack units the less streets you can defend and the fewer free reserves you’ll have.

"THE MEAT GRINDER BABY.......... meat grinder"

Would pikes in formation moving up to a line of troops fighting be stacking?

Awesome battle, I couldn’t help but notice though the quality or resolution looks slightly lower than normally even though I have the video set at 1080p60 like I usually do

My parents : don't you have anything to do than playing games (Apollo's uploads video ) Me: 😈 yes then do

Do you use mods and which? Im planning to add some. I have to mention my potato pc may not handle them 😥

I need snacks this battle is gonna he lit

Apollo I want to ask you a question,do you play with large armies or not and with what funds do you play?If you can tell me I will be so happy because I am a new player in the total war and I need your help.

You need to add a rule that makes it so that each player can only have 1 Tortoise. 16 breaches is absurd.

Spanish pyke square had swordsmen in them.

i think in the choas of a battle it will get down to semantics and judgement calls if you do not allow stacking. It should be agreed upon that it should not be utilized as a tactic but no repercussions should come from it. Make it known not to do it but have it more as a silent rule than ground rule.

Finally i thought of going through RU-vid and guess what Apollo has posted an epic video and I’m not that late time to watch !

I would err on the side of allowing the stacking and increasing archer cap. What does and doesn't count as stacking might become too fine a line and lead to arguments. And the last thing you need in a large siege is to be checking your pikemen every few moments to make sure teammates haven't gone near them.

As long as it's max 2 pikes you should be able to reinforce the pikes with swords!

I just started watching your channel but your amazing keep it up!! This looks like a fun fun game

The enforcement is going to be a nightmare if you decide to implement a No Stacking rule. That said as long as the number of Pikemen units is limited, so as to avoid stacking saturation across the board. Just my two coppers worth of insight.

Pixelated May I ask if my specs can handle Rome 2? 4GB RAM IC i-5-8250U up to 3.4GHz. Thanks bro.

Time to get some 4K content, Apollo. So much detail in this game.

I think archers and other skirmisher units that have no shields should be allowed to stack with pikemen as they would still be easy to kill by archer fire but still screen the pikemen from incoming projectiles by just a little bit.

Hey so i am going to buy total war rome 2 :Spartan a edition (Wrath of Spartan, Daughters of Mars, Greek States). But i recently found that i can buy the Total War:Attila (Rise of Byzantium). Which one should i choose?

I think the pikeman/sword combo i think should be allowed. From what ive seen the sword units dont block that much damage from archer units furthermore that would stop players from attacking through pike units as well. At least how i understand the rule in a choke point situation the pike unit would have to completely die before sending another unit in since technically if the support unit goes in early than it could be blocking skirmish damage to pike units.

The siege battles are stunning, but to determine the best generals, battles on the open plain would be far superior.

Love the videos watch them all day all night love your tactics

Hey Apollo i'm just watching the videos of the siege tones of Roma II you could do that with other Total war like Empire or shogun for example Very cool to see you communicating to learn the strategies I love your videos

Is desert Rome allowed in the tournament?? This tournament is about to be awesome, and most of us could use good content now more than ever. Can’t wait!

I’m not sure if anyone has brought up this point but I feel like it’s valid. I feel like the no stack rule is fair. However, there are certain situations in games that it accidentally happens. I’ve seen people breaching walls and pushing through with units, and when they want to ensure they can win, they move in pikes behind the units and somewhat push in and end up stacking. I’ve seen it in game AND watching your videos. It’s a good tactic, however, I could see that being a problem in terms of enforcing that rule.

My 2 cents is that limiting 2 pike units is enough, there counter is skirmishes which the normal limit is 4 which should even things out. Also you find in hard to break a pike/swordsman bring your own pikes you still have a say in who you play!

Although I appreciate the fact that it may be hard to referee, I think that in a historical narrative and strategy game like this, realism is very important. You should ban stacking swordsman on pikes- especially if the developers call it an exploit. It will make the tournament more enjoyable in the long run. P.S: if you're reading this, could you possibly like it so Apollo sees it? I'd like him to hear my opinion, but it's fine if you don't (:

When and on what channel is the tournament gonna be?

Love these! When is the next shield war vid ?

If I had a nickel for every "fightin' the good fight" and "there you have it", I'd have 30 dollars.

How about pikemen only for defence

Honestly I love that stacking exploit because when I'm playing as Rome. If the enemy has archers and there firing on my archers, I'll put my archers in my legionary's and they'll be fine:)

Love this channel thanks apollo

I thought i was the only person on earth that knew about stacking swords on pikes... 😂😂😂

Isn't there a mod to prevent stacking ? It's currently very difficult to avoid. But with a mod it would be easier

i'd say i'm fine with stacking, especially during the climax of the battle where both sides are heated and would sometimes forgets the rules of the game.

is this rome only or attiler as well?

Our version of April madness Siege Madness

The stacking rule seems a bit pedantic precisely because of what happened at 1:06:35-ish when Pontus advanced his pikes forward.

Personally i dont mind the stacking, ive watched a lot of your videos where defenders stack there units and still lost. Maybe limit the pikes, so if units do stack, its only 2-3 units of pikes? Anyways, keep up the videos bud, i love to watch them!

Why is this battle looks so familiar to the one from 5 days ago? Even the comteting sounds similar it's not the same right cause i think the factions are also identical and in the same position as that one

it's sad to see how the walls are useless in this total war :(

I feel like it would get much more boring if stacking is allowed. Only positive is that as long as the rear is attacked no matter how many stacks there are, it'll cause morale debuff. On the other hand trying to enforce it in every game would be a hassle especially in moshpit fights. You could try to go for 5 Archer stacking allowed rule, or 4 Archer + 1 skirmisher stacking allowed. Best results if you can test those to see if it's too op first though.

Nice

Many factors lean either for or against. My opinion is do it as a case by case basis. Such as not all factions are made equal. EX. Barbarians vs Roman vs Kush vs Greek faction. If barbarians are defending they want extra protection and pikes will be vital to there defence. If they are attacking and Sparta is defending they do not want to face a tough enemy that will be made even harder to defeat. I say look at the factions and decide which can use the pike cheat and which can not, or only allow defending factions to use it or only attacking factions can use it

Pixelated apollo You are the Best total war youtuber

Yyyeeeeesssss Pikemen stacking with Swords

At least i can re-watch all your videos being quarantine