Ok I don't know how to tag people so I'm gonna reply to your pin. @Branigan Robertson isn't popping up automatically like facebook does. I have a serious question and input (I still want you to respond to my joke too). So I have made a habit of talking to the boss a lot because we identify with a lot of stuff and it's clear I'm a standout compared to the vast majority of people who are young enough to be my kids and she gets like all but 3 pop culture references I've ever made to describe what certain things are like (which is pretty good and she probably knows more OVERALL and can make me look young and stupid by comparison if she really tries). I only really put stuff in writing if it's a issue I can detail walkthrough and help out about and affects me in a serious or personal way. I've given HR copies along with the boss and also security if it pertains. But I never request a meeting with HR. I will request to the boss and we talk like normal. HR only wanted me for a serious two-part held-back complaint simply to let them know what's going on in case anyone else were to introduce false stuff against me, so it was more a preventative thing just in case. I found another issue that I was wondering about. They had someone from corporate working there with us and I found out during the last 2 days of their stay that they were interested in two of my biggest ideas of new policies to prevent false claims of sexual harassment and also to deal with uncorrected problems or objectionable people. I wrote a pretty good presentation for the person which I rushed to get to them next day in case they weren't working the DAY they were going to leave (they were, but I didn't know). We discussed my ideas before I wrote them and she liked them and agreed on the general concept. My question for you though is should I maybe provide anybody at the company a copy or just wait and see what the corporate lady does? My guess is to wait. I don't want to create an issue when they don't have to be aware of one. Basically the first rule is the two part "Turn around and run rule" both for managers and employees and the employees one is subdivided into uncorrected situations and highly objectionable people (of which I had to use ONE as an example). I would only provide this to the company if they tried to force me to work with that person and say "Here. Here's something I wrote corporate that DOUBLES as a specific complaint". So basically since the work is done form me, I would wait on that. And then the other is the most important one, the "Run for the hills rule" to prevent false claims of sexual harassment. That would solve a long-standing issue that affects me daily, and again, I don't want to provide it because I feel that they've heard enough about it that they don't need more at this time. Am I doing the right thing or what?
@@no1run732 To the extent I understand your question, it sounds like you're thinking the right way. But it sounds like you've got a specific issue and, if your issue is serious enough, I think you ought to chat with a lawyer in your area.
@@braniganrobertsonlaw It's only going to be serious if they try to force me to work with the young manager again. They know about the issues prompting me to make 2 rules dealing with how we can prevent them, but not that I actually proposed one that we talked about and one I just came up with recently that would have solved everything all the way back to a year ago when the big one that weighs on me daily started. It's a pretty low probability that they will have the one individual complained about at length manage me. I think they're just trying him out. So as long as they don't do that with me, I'm fine. For now.
@Branigan Robertson wow it all makes sense now. Thanks for the video. My boss has been supervisor for 15 years. No staff have pd, pdp, training plan, annual reviews so of course no one knows their jobs and she tells me my responsibility. No policies or procedures. Finally had mental breakdown and went to hr and superintendent. Told it is my job. Asked to go on FMLA on 2/16/21. Not allowed until 5/26/21 when they claim they received paperwork. Missed deadlines which were never set before. Written up. Put under investigation. Said they were going to fire me but I could resign. I didn't. Let me take pfML, demoted me 15k pay cut, when I got back. Messed up my payroll by using all me leave therefore double paying me when I didn't report for pfML. Superintendent said asked what my urgency to fix $15k error, didn't brake schools bank account, what is my hardship. Going on Over a year now
It's funny when HR says they'll "investigate" the situation. This reminds me of how the police 'investigates' themselves and find they did nothing wrong lol.
"Our department did a thorough investigation into this incident, and we concluded that the officer did not break any laws or departmental rules by firing 2 clips into the unarmed black man. When the suspect suddenly threw his hands in the air and said "Don't shoot, I'll comply", the officer feared for his life and fired upon the suspect." -Some police HR rep probably
@@fallendeus "And by throw his hands in the air and say don't shoot I'll comply, we of course me that the marginalized victim shrugged off pepper spray and taser fire and then charged our officers with a bowie knife"
Reminds me of my principal saying "I'll get to the bottom of this" when I reported being beaten up on a weekly basis in elementary school. I learned that adults will say one thing and do nothing very early on.
We had a female pregnant co-worker asked when she was going to turn in her two week notice by our manager so she could care for her twins. Being a small company and a tight knit group we, all of the staff, took a vote. We all decided that either the manager goes or we all quit at the same time. Only then we all contacted HR and the VP about the incident and told them it is the manager or the entire site is shutdown for good. Since our site was the only one servicing the Southeastern and Western United States and Puerto Rico (with our big customer base in Texas and Florida) at the time that would have been a serious blow to the company. The incident was resolved satisfactorily, we got to chose a new manager from our own group, and things went on like nothing happened for the next 9 years until we got bought out.
Awesome!!!!!!!! Kudos!!!!!! I was a maid at holiday inn near Breckenridge, Colorado in 1972 (frisco or Dillon). I made $20 to $30 a day. Good pay for women. $3 to clean each room alone. I worked and hid that I was seven month’s pregnant. At a staff meeting, a co-worker happily congratulated me on being pregnant. Both managers eyes riveted on me. I was demoted to laundry immediately and then my laundry hours were cut rapidly down to nothing. No one would hire me because I was pregnant. I finally got an occasional babysitting part-time job. The job I had prior paid $1.25 an hour, sub-minimum because the owner put a tip jar on the counter. I never got any tips. It was empty.
And that is effectively how unions work, 1 employee can't really do much to protect themselves most of the time, but the collective will of the majority of a companies employees can often do a lot.
@@garethbaus5471 Except where the Unions are owned by the company. (yes, you'd be surprised by how many Unions are not owned by the workers and even some that are have bosses that are bribed by the company)
Complaining to the manager already got me targeted for workplace sabotage and termination. I have not even reported to HR yet, but all my witnesses are “suddenly” having amnesia.
That’s how I’t be. I can tell you as an hr rep. Your the best witness you have. Document and record. Sometimes the people you complain to have a bias in the situation. Realize that they are there to make money not friends and the owe no loyalty to there co-workers. This is usually the part where I would tell you me best advice, stay to yourself, keep conversation work based, and just cause you have to work as a team doesn’t mean you have to be overly social. Cross your T and dot you I.
I realized that most people will not stand up for their coworkers and they usually speak to each other in order to gather information for gossip and to use against each other in the future.
Complained to HR about harassment and extreme bullying many times and was told to take my complaints directly to the bullies and try and work it out. Two years later and continued discrimination and bullying, there's a new sheriff in town AKA the newly hired Store Manager. The new manager has wrongfully written me up twice in a week. Guess what happens after the 3rd writeup? No one in the company cares about what's going on, and it's easier to hire an axe man who will "fix the issue". These videos have been an invaluable source of information during a very stressful time in my life.
@Soul Equaliser I forgot that I posted this comment because it was a very painful time in my life. I ultimately was written up the 3rd time, suspended for 3 days, and when the new Store Manager came back from her week long vacation she wasted no time coming up with trumped up charges to terminate me. I was wrongfully terminated in May of 2022. Fortunately for me I had filed an HRB case against the company prior to them firing me. I hired an Attorney and we are waiting on a Probable Cause determination. It was hard being unemployed at no fault of my own. I was on unemployment and took a job months later that paid very little and had no room for advancing. I started to experience a similar toxic environment and knew I had to move on. I'm proud to announce that I have a very high paying position that rewards me for my hard work with bonuses and other incentives. Hang in there and believe in yourself. You have to be your own legal advisor and know your case inside and out. Watching these videos were extremely helpful!!! Document, document, document! I wish you well and pray you get through this.
@@mariannegriego444 Hiring an attorney and all of that is a waste of time and energy. People don't want to hear this, but if you're getting in trouble at work or being harrrassed by a manager, YOU NEED A NEW JOB. That's the only way to get peace of mind. Otherwise, you're in a bad relationship and choosing to stay.
@@shakirghazali2890 hmmm... just in case you didn't know this, it's against the law to harass and discriminate against any employee. I won my case...Thank you!
As an IT systems admin. I can tell you the difference between good HR and bad HR. A good HR will start collecting evidence such as camera footage, emails, login data, IP addresses, proof. A bad HR will start collecting testimony.
and they have time, money and personal to do that the employee has to do all that while keeping the job. I hope you are not provinding them with some of thst info....if you do or have to then you are a subordinate of the HR anti employees behavior
@@rpghero46 camera footage, login info, work emails are all property of your employer. If HR is investigating wrong doing on behalf of your emplyer then they have every right to that information. Usually these investigations turn up nothing so the employee may not even know it happened. Saves a lot of time and emotional stress for all. This does not constitute a toxic work environment as something must of sparked an investigation, a complaint or inconsistencies of some kind. To be fair I'd rather have a toxic work environment then toxic coworkers. I've had jobs with both and I prefer the former but my current job has neither of those.
@@kenneyshepard4511 well enjoy working for the system that keeps you well feed and feeling useful l. belive me they have a tendency to make the sheep belive they are on the right. don't worry you wouldn't know that's how well trained they have people.
Really? Wow nice! I could see patter of behavior my company or the HR and management team are doing againts me. But I am not sure how to begin with to fight them back. They may use technical glitch to be a covert way to prevent auditing my vacation hours which was in error! This IT issues has been ongoing for extended time since mid August. Having an IT update issue will somehow delay the investigation or an alibi to give to the DOL WHD to investigate them.
I got canned after complaining to HR about being bullied and harassed - horrendously and constantly. Wish I would have seen this before all that happened, but man I feel better after watching it either way. The pattern fits my situation to a T. After the complaint, suddenly I was being documented for performance improvement nonsense, being blamed for all kinds of stuff I clearly didn’t do. It’s good to understand the reasons why. Thanks for the video!
This is my situation EXACTLY! I have come to understand I was bullied and harassed by staff AND the manager AND the manager knew and did nothing about it! I was actually terminated from this employer just today. I’m kind of thankful because I’m not one to quit a job. Now I never ever have to go back to that place. I’m so soooooo thankful!
@@laurasainz4836 you were mobbed. Narc bosses want you to accept their abuse and if you don’t you get punished. You (meaning anyone) try to do your best job and for some reason that’s a license to abuse employees. If you complain or expose the abuse they cover it up and retaliate by making your life miserable. What a wicked world we live in. Hope that you can get some rest and regroup and that your next workplace is HEALTHIER.
I literally got told today to shut my mouth I took two extra minutes while I was taking somebody's order mind you I work in food service the manager was literally 2 in from me telling me that she's already talked to me about talking for too long I mean I could literally feel her Breathe on Me I have never dealt with such disrespect in my life to the point where the store manager actually agreed with me when I said if the roles were reversed I'd be fired I just don't understand how employers can be legally allowed to do this stuff but yet they say they're having trouble with finding people who want to work
OK I've only brought up one issue with HR. OK I used to be a teacher. I survived a school shooting when I was 17. Once our school's principal found out about my history, voluntarily provided this info to HR during Disability Awareness Month when they sent out a survey that was supposed to be confidential, she decided we're going to have an active shooter drill on a weekly basis. I filed a written complaint, along with a letter from my therapist, as the frequency of the drills were triggering my PTSD. This got back our Principal, and she decided to place me on an Performance Improvement Plan that she actually wrote "take 1 month off without pay and get cured of your PTSD!" I stabilized my condition and returned with the paperwork for an ADA Accommodation. A week later HR contacted me that I was terminated for not following the guidelines of the PIP, and wanted to schedule an exit interview and also pick up my final paycheck and unused PTO. Never went to the exit interview, but I did take my PIP and Termination notice to an employment lawyer and he took the case pro-bono. Apparently the principal thought "at-will employment" was a valid defense against ADA discrimination and HR backed her.
@ Idiot Swordsman: _"I did take my PIP and Termination notice to an employment lawyer and he took the case pro-bono."_ Well, don't keep us in suspense -- how did it turn out?
@@Milesco Long story short, The whole situation never left arbitration, I received a nice settlement plus attorney's fees, and that school is now under new management.
I have been working at various companies in corporate America for 35 years and every single time I complained to HR something bad happened to me not long after.
I made a complaint about a new manager 4 years ago, harrassment/bullying. I've complained to HR who told me its her management style. I've worked for the company 39yrs. Time to get out.
Start a documentation on her behavior and what she says to you and you definitely have a lawsuit case if she starts harassing you based on your protected class.
@K C Always document, it's tough going through it but you give yourself a chance at keeping your job, getting your job back, or a court date. Speak with the EEOC to see if you have a case.
I did have to complain to hr about a hostile work environment and they were actually very helpful in standing up for me to management and offering helpful advice, even though i ended up leaving anyway. I eventually learned that most of the staff had conflicts with each other that they probably would never resolve.
I have had a handful of interactions with HR departments over the years, and immediately I noticed some patterns which *all* of your content confirms, Branigan. Your content expounds and elucidates on every single suspicion of mine. My strategy with HR over the years has been this: know your adversary’s playbook, and in that way, you will be more likely to come out on top. Having excellent communication skills is *HUGE* when dealing with HR and initiating complaints. You never want to come off like a bull in a china shop, because at best, they won’t take you seriously. At worst, you will be scooted out the door faster than you can say “unemployment.” I’ve watched this same phenomenon take place at least a dozen times. *KNOW* your adversary and what their game is. I often tell newbies, “Walking into HR with a complaint is like walking into a casino. They’ve stacked the deck, and the house always wins.” That isn’t to say HR is always evil, but you have to understand who you’re talking to and what their interests are. Here’s a pro-tip for anyone out there who gets involved with an HR investigation: they’re looking for any inconsistencies in your testimony that they can poke holes in, so you need to keep your answers short. If the question only requires a “yes” or “no,” then that’s all you give them. Do not be tentative, because they’re trying to hand you just enough rope to hang yourself. Being tentative will only make them more vicious. At most, do not answer their questions with more than 5 or 6 words at most. Remember: the name of the game is keeping your story consistent. Also, short answers will help you remember what you said when the next series of questions is asked. The next series of questions will always be identical to the first series, except worded differently in order to get you to change your answers. Stay concise, stay consistent, and stay brief. Don’t give them more than they’re asking for, because you’ll hang yourself and that’s what they want. HR partners and reps are *adept* at tripping you up, so always walk in with an air-tight testimony they can’t poke holes in.
Wow! I love it. I am a good writer and wordy sometimes. My goal when writing to the HR is to let them see clearly the details in a chronological order as if I am laying all my cards and Aces on the table. This is wrong! You are right when they see inconsistencies in my report then they attack my mistakes and take them against me. Hmmmm.
I had to learn the Hard way, I done everything you said don't do I did. But through it learned all about the things you said through many outlets like yours. And people, listen to this Man he is telling you the truth. You have to be smart, and do not join in with everyone else's drama around you. Do your best everyday, keep smiling through it all. Pray for God to be your protector and move the mountains in your way.. you and God will be the Majority.. but please heed the advice in this Video it will save you heartache. God bless you all!
I'd just like to throw out the suggestion of using your e-mail post HR or Supervisor meetings.Thank them for sitting down with you and lay out what was discussed and what everyone agreed to do as the next steps. Then finish with, "Please let me know if I've missed of misunderstood anything." That way you have notes on what was said, who was there AND you gave them a chance to correct anything you said happened.
I wld really want to know wat part of NC your in. Please. Having some issue at wrk tat I have spoken to my supervisor n seems like he don’t care how injustice things go on here. So I wld like some advice if possible please.
Why is it that 90% of all the employees I complained in the past were either terminated later like 3 to 6 months or transfered to another store locations within the organization? One who assaulted me physically who was a supervisor enjoyed 1 more year on the job before he got fired! This is insidious tactic of firing him. The HR did nothing to protect me because I did not follow up and never asked the HR in writing the result of their investigation.
I thought I was doing the right thing when I helped a colleague with her sexual harassment compliant. Soon after I was fired. Never again. I least I can sleep at night. I witnessed it and don’t regret doing what I thought aligned with my values.
I feel for all of you. Corporate America is one of the last places I would like to work in. No protection from being fired, HR complaints get you fired etc. I don't understand how you can even build a life over there without taking pills against anxiety because you could lose your job at any time.
Thank you sir, I followed exact procedures and made nothing personal; "everything's for the benefit of the company and or team." AND IT WORKED OUT PERFECTLY! I kept my composure, brought a genuine typed note of events and was able to add beneficial info to the company while handling the issue. Thank you again. 🗣️ DO EXACTLY AS HE SAYS! 🤜🏾🤛🏻 💯
This is really useful information! A male coworker having multiple sexual relationships at work approached me my second day on the job. I had him written up by lunchtime. The department manager attempted to call me into a meeting in her office with the guy. I declined. By the time I responded to the meeting request from HR, the man had resigned. Thank you.
I work for a huge top Forbes company and face regular discrimination and harassment due to having a legally protected disability. I recently met with a few of the executives to report some horrible bullying by my manager and peers. The executives refused to move me to another area as my manager lied when asked about his behavior and said he is only trying to make me good at my job and that I get mad when anyone gives me feedback. He lied about every incident I had documented and said he never said these things and doesn’t know how I could even think these things up as he has only tried to help me. They illegally pulled an approved ADA accommodation and then said they wouldn’t approve a new one and I wouldn’t be able to work. But management didn’t update the paperwork to show this and wouldn’t put it in writing. When I challenged it and sent emails to our ADA HR dept. and HR, they told me to submit a new accommodation due to the verbiage my Dr. used and then approved the new one. This went back and forth for many weeks before the new one was approved. It seemed like they approved the second one finally as they saw I was fighting it and possibly wanted to sweep it under the rug. HR and the execs say that the new one is approved so there is nothing to look into and no damage done. I was not considered for a better position I applied for because I have been labeled as an HR problem over this and it gave me terrible ulcers and stress over the unprofessional berating calls I received from management when I was trying to get this accommodation issue resolved. This is in Texas, so the laws are a bit different than California. Now my manager is going back and re-reviewing my work prior to meeting with the execs and finding many things “incorrect”that were not found to be incorrect before. He is reassigning others’ work to me trying to make sure I can’t keep up and even though overtime is open, he suddenly banned me and only me from doing it. I have been working overtime for 8 years and my work quality has actually won me awards but now is not good enough. It seems like he is trying to manage me out. Prior to reporting the bullying and discrimination, I was considered a top producer and a “mentor”. I would encourage anyone starting a new job or dealing with any type of harassment & discrimination to document the heck out of everything. I am thankful for videos like these as over the years they have taught me to keep all of my yearly reviews, emails, productivity reports and other important data. Thank you Branigan. Your information has been so valuable and helpful.
I go to HR not because I want them to agree with me but just for written statement history that I can use when I decide to take it further to EEOC!you gotta have a plan and a strong minded person to battle with them ! One suggestion if EEOC happens to be corrupt as well take your issue to the media / local news !
EEOC in NY is corrupt. If it is white on white or the case concerns antisemitism they don't care. In my case, hiring an attorney helped me keep my job. The main perpetrator was demoted and transferred yet I am still working in the same department with tenure. The other individual who discriminated and retaliated against me is still there. But guess what? She doesn't have tenure and her partner in crime is no longer there to lie and cover for her. So now she has to watch her back.
Honestly you have to hire a lawyer and make sure you’re documenting what they did and all details of disgusting behavior - only a lawyer truly has your back
I work QA, I reported a guy who was blowing up and cussing me out every time I found his work nonconformance. HR brought me in and after some convo said "it's the way you talk" I was infuriated and yelled "how!?" She quickly answered, "I don't know". HR always turns it on you.
And I was sent to HR because I forgot to inspect a job once and another time for asking my boss if the other inspector could do it because I had so many jobs to inspect. I couldn't believe it.
I remember a story of a married guy who was constantly hit on by his female boss. She was even sending explicit pictures of herself. He wrote up to HR to complain and got late to no response. One time, she went too far and touched him inappropriately so he snapped at her and went home. A few days later he got called up to HR to be confronted about HIS sexual harrassment of this woman, which was absolutely false as there was no evidence of that, but HR acted quick because the complaint came from a woman and she had a high position. He presented proof that she was the one harrassing him and even busted out a recording of her trying to seduce him. Naturally, not only did HR prove to not be helpful, rumors of him being the perv was circulating the company and he was sacked. That led to the consequences of his family, his friends abandoning him, and if I recall correctly, his wife left too and he almost ascended himself to Heaven. It was a wild and sad story but just an example of HR not being your allies.
@@MannysVisionStudio well I question anything without seeing the proof but prob because everyone left him. It definitely happens but usually I see family sticking with people that actually do bad things and they enable the family member. But the wife leaving too is just crazy.
I skipped the HR complaint, went right to the Integrity hotline and made sure I said who I was. It actually worked, and I was protected, at least for a while. I didn’t realize then how rigged it all was, but I knew HR was not to be trusted.
@@That_one_normal_person for that specific incident, the offending VP was reigned in, prevented from firing me and two other physicians. The VP eventually was moved to a different part of the hospital system, later retiring. However, the system as a whole remained toxic (if anything became worse). Our department was reorganized, removing any local autonomy. A new VP was eventually installed who was a clone of Professor Umbridge. Targeted firings for those speaking out (not “team players”). Employee engagement plummeted, but if we asked about the numbers, you were targeted. Turnover accelerated. I departed in 2017, transitioned from clinical medicine into a non-clinical field, and have been very happy ever since. After my departure, 4-5 other physicians departed, about have of which have also left clinical medicine, transitioning to industry or related fields. It is hospital systems like that which accelerate physician (and nursing) shortages- and this was all before COVID.
Is that the same thing as a compliance hotline because that is something that my company has. If so, I am thinking about speaking with them about my fears of HR and the company going against me if I complain about a coworker.
This is such a valuable service to those in dysfunctional companies or departments. The problem with HR is that they're trained to act like your best friend while doing things against your best interest. It _feels_ like they're there to help you but that's not necessarily the case. I had an HR manager who regularly confided in me about how dysfunctional the company was. Misery loves company so I probably opened up about my own grievances. Looking back, I have no idea if she was sincere or was just baiting me.
I've experienced the exact pattern you described after raising serious issues with HR. I raised complaints, which were quickly followed by a PIP meeting. But in my case I was prepared and turned so many of their points against me back on them. Furthermore, I had great reviews previously. So it was really obvious what was going.
I just got a job this past week in HR because no one else would pick me up for employment. I was told HR would be difficult and I knew it wouldn't be fun, but wow. My boss so far seems really nice and caring, I'm gonna hope for the best and do what I can to educate myself on how to help people the best I can.
After 2 years of working in HR, I have huge anxiety, always struggling to leave bed for work and basically feeling like a mental ruin. Never thought the branch itself might be the problem, rather thought it's the company's specific. And my manager was also very nice and supportive at the beginning. Now it's to the point I have panic attacks in the bathroom. Definietely must change the job. Think of it before it's 2 late.
@@marekkopton2546 I already did. My supervisors were sociopaths. My boss was nice just to save face. I lasted 3 months minus some days. I hated being alive and I could count the minutes by how much life force I felt myself losing. I was constantly being complimented and also threatened with termination simultaneously. I felt insane. The employees I dealt with were often lovely. My supervisors were ghastly. I never want to work a job like that ever again. I'm still in a state of uncertainty and occasionally try to float on what little money I have now but I make it work, and I'm at least a bit happier. I hope you find something better for yourself.
@@rodolfogarcia6301 omg that's so cool of you. I started to feel sth isn't well 2 months after my Induction day, however I setup a goal (like a milestone) to work 1 complete year there. Afterwards my results were great, manager charming and caring (because target was on its place). But the longer I've been there, the worst I started to feel. And now, from about like 5 months, I am a real human wreck, just trying to smile (at work) and starting to search for a new opportunities ASAP. Will see how it goes, but trying to look bright into the future and also awaiting for the therapist session. See, I had problems even with making this appointment (being aware of major mental health issues) as it seemed to be so pointless and timeconsuming like I had to do a 10 years time jump. That's all by the age of 29. Also, I lost most of my friends btw.... Gross, funny and sad. I was really happy to read your comment and moreover of your quick response. Take care 2 and wishing you great career!
I went to HR once about a minor issue and it was quickly resolved. Bit I knew a guy who complained about harassment at work and ended up getting fired just like you said. I heard that story several times from different people and eventually put the pieces together from that moment I decided I wouldn't go to HR about major issues without consulting an attorney first. Luckily I never really had any major issues, whenever a problem occurred with a Co-worker was able to take it to that person and come up with a compromise.
HR Professional here - I love this video. I commented on the first video so I won't be too long winded here about my style of approaching this field here, but my advice mirrors this advice. Please keep a paper trail of all interactions with your boss, coworker and even ME! You bet I have one. I need to be able to prove we spoke, what we spoke about and when so I absolutely want you to have your own files but please make sure you keep ALL correspondence, not pick and choose what makes you look good. I have to provide everything I say not just what proves me right or wrong. (I'm also weird and will admit when I'm wrong!) In your complaint to HR please just be specific, use facts, give me dates, etc. Please don't write me a novel, bullet points are fine. I completely understand you're upset but please don't threaten me or the organization, swear, call people out of name, or tell me how to do my job. Personally, I don't tend to write people up after they complain unless they actually violate a real policy that I would have reprimanded them for before the complaint but I do know this happens and I'm sorry for it. HR shouldn't be scary but some of us have tarnished the field in ways that still hurt people to this day. Please try to trust us but understand, as Branigan so wisely mentions, we're limited in some of our ability to help you and HR people vary. A lot of us DO want to help you though!
@Ralph Furley HR protects the company...NEVER believe they have any interest in YOU, it is all about getting you OUT as you might become a liability. DO NOT EVER believe HR is on your side EVER, they are NOT there to help you, but to keep their company out of a lawsuit FROM you, NEVER EVER give them your documentation. SEE AN ATTORNEY, they will represent you, they are trying to see what you have on them so they can USE it against YOU.
I have a joke for you: what's the difference between a HR professional, doctor, lawyer, engineer ? The other three don't have to remind you their professionals LOL 😄
Hi. One thing I don't understand about HR is why they act adversely to employees when doing so actually hurts the company's case. For example, if someone raises a legal violation, the best thing to do is to genuinely address it such that (1) the employee is happy/productive and (2) they have a stronger defense in a lawsuit. Instead, HR retaliates 70% of the time - which makes employees want to sue and gives many employees a viable claim when they may not have had one before. HR's "circle the wagons" and villify "troublesome" employees isn't just mean; it's unwise. I guess they're betting that employees won't sue, but why make that bet?
In my 30 year career I've only complained to HR once. I did it during my exit interview on my way out the door to a new job. I framed the issue as, "This is why the reason I'm leaving (poor behavior from someone in management) is likely to cost this company that I enjoyed working at money & legal problems down the line. And here's a copy of all the evidence I printed out proving my point. Peace." A few months later friends still at the company said HR opened an investigation, and the nightmare Director in question disappeared over everyone's Xmas break for 6 weeks to attend some kind of "remedial management training." When he returned to the office he resigned within the year. I was pretty sore at the time at having to uproot my life & change jobs in another city to fix an unfixable issue with a truly toxic manager, but it all worked out in the end & I suspect I'm much better off now than if I'd stayed there.
In my experience video one and two are excellent and represent the situation very accurately. It is such a shame however that so many employers do not use or even encourage people to speak up. They could learn so much about the negative side of what may be happening in their workforce and make improvements, A good and happy workforce is a treasure to them and well as the employees themselves.
I was fired during covid.... the fleet manager who fired me was recently fired for stealing cash invoices.... I'm battling with unemployment for a year now.... I wish I would have found your channel last year... it be nice to find a lawyer like you in Houston TX.... great advice I'm afraid to hire a lawyer because I've been out of work for a year and have lost a lot....
I think it really depends on the company culture, and the manner and item of complaint. I have had terrible experiences with HR at a job, and then really amazing experiences at another. It definitely helps to not complain until someone has crossed the legal line and you have either multiple witnesses or documented proof. I just went through an investigation and I really was impressed with how the company handled it. It would be great to see a video on what happens if you’re the accused in a complaint, and what to expect.
@@braniganrobertsonlaw I've learned to anonymously report things to the corporate office. My last HR got her position by sleeping with the company manager!
I complained about an unlawful action by following the employee hand book and went through steps similar to the ones you outlined. There was mediation meeting, then retaliation until I was laid off with severance and transition assistance while I was sick with COVID a week before Christmas. Within two weeks I was hired into another department and subjected to the same treatment until I eventually found another job. I consulted with an attorney about what happened and he said the terms offered were better than what most people would get and that a lawsuit would net about the same return minus legal fees.
I had to step down from a team lead position at the factory I work at due to not being able to deal with the stress. I was doubled over hyperventilating and decided I couldn't risk my health. But I know more than most and so long as it was infrequent (one or twice a month) I could step in for my team lead for a night. Fast forward to a team lead who missed every Wednesday, then started coming in late, leaving early, and missing more days during the week, and even when he was there he spent the majority of his time in a different part of the factory. I started having panic attacks, was falling into depression, and having to leave early myself. One night I was shaking so bad I couldn't sign the paperwork for leaving early. I asked HR for 6 months to get us more help because I couldn't handle the stress anymore. I never asked them to replace the team lead, just for help. I even explained what had happened when I was a team lead, even got my floor boss to tell them it was true, but they never did anything. I finally started seeing a therapist, this was around the start of covid so I had to go out of the county to find a therapist because all the ones in the county I live in that accepted my insurance were no longer accepting new clients. So I informed HR, got a note from the therapist for their records, planned my sessions on Fridays (we work 4 ten hour shifts so usually off Fridays) in case we had to work overtime, and was only going every other week. Three sessions in (6 weeks) HR comes and asks me if I can cancel my appointments or get them earlier in the day. I work second shift 3:15pm - 1:45am, I usually can't fall asleep until 4 or 5am, I was getting up at 9am to get ready and wakeup enough to drive the one hour commute for my appointment at noon, I was also working with my doctor to find antidepressants that worked for me (most made me very lethargic and sleepy), so by the time I got home (3-4pm) all I wanted to do was sleep. I told him to fuck off and that I would no longer be doing my team leads job. Luckily that was the end of it with no repremands to me.
Best advice ever, if you are going to complain do it in writing/email (print it out) you can’t trust that a company is going to be honest. Bottom line in many of case’s where there maybe disparate treatment companies are going to protect themselves no matter the cost. Speaking from experience company emails will disappear and so will any meetings or conversations regarding the complaint.
Worked for my company 9 years... never had a write up, went to HR in January, complained of harassment, suddenly my FMLA is not written correctly, suddenly I'm on a behavior write up. In an "investigation" that's been dragging out over a month and a half....
GET YOURSELF an attorney...classic ploy to GET YOU OUT... proved my case that my inept mgr wasn't filing anything correctly. Floor sup with in kahoots with her to get me out of my job. I used another mgr to file my FMLA stuff as a back up but went and got legal counsel, and went above my office to show that I was a valuable asset to the company. Went to CEO that sent me kudo notes. Told him I was not doing what mgr accused me of doing. Until I got in this nutcase mgr's unit I was getting great reviews. WHY did she have it out for me. Turns out she had dated former mgr and he dumped her and she was FURIOUS about my friendship with him. NOTHING about my work, it was personal, and I had NO idea of their former history. The floor sup hated that mgr as well, not his work- him, so the two HAGS collaborated in trying to push me out when my dear mom, was dying. HOW cruel women in the workplace are. I was a good employee that got transferred into a sick woman's unit and from day one NOTHING I did was good enough. This is the CRAP you deal with in corporate America, and HR, backs these SICK mgrs up. Unless you get legal counsel that LEANS on them.
Dragging on 15 months Manager started investigation then jumped ship. Supervisor below that one wrote bogas comments flipped the script. Brought complaint against me. 2nd step towards the exit I suppose. No use saying anything in my defense, my integrity is destroyed. Looking forward to the end. Won't be long now- Next phase here I come lol
When I complained to HR they acted so fake. My Union was in bed with the company. During meetings with HR I saw him on his phone checking his Facebook. They realized after 6 months of me complaining and exhausting the Union process that I was going to get a lawyer. They ended up backing off and stopped the attrition and bullying.
All of your videos are EXTREMELY helpful - thank you. You keep on saying find a good attorney, but these so-called good attorneys do not even speak with us. I contacted your office a few years ago, and someone (a non-attorney) did the "client intake." I do not know how you could determine if my case is good or bad if you base your assessment on the 5-minute call I made. It is very frustrating indeed.😥😥
Thank you, because of this video I knew the right steps to take and had the confidence to address harassment that I’ve been enduring for the last six months.
I was in a bad place the other night. Waking up in the early hours thinking about my employment situation. Thank you so much for this video. It has helped a lot. Here in Ireland, HR departments are very much aligned with US corporate culture.
Wow. First of all, love your video style and how you provide the information. It’s very honest and to the point. I enjoyed it very much. Once I complained to an HR rep as I was giving my two weeks notice, she convinced me to stay. She stated that it would all settle down and that they value me. I later find out my manager and The main HR rep are best friends and spoke on the phone throughout the day so when my wrote was sent to HR, HR quickly approved it. I then kept track of my performance and their lack of proper delegations etc. and was able to dispute a second write up they attempted to place on me. But the lack of respect and horrible management skills is quickly weighing heavy in my health. But I enjoy my career despite the management. So I’m fighting for my right to enjoy my placement and career. But it does sound more like whining after this video and I can’t find a company goals to align this with. So I digress and will just keep track of back management until an issue arises so I can hopefully later use. I feel like I can transfer to another dept because she will most likely bad mouth me. Today I asked her to unpack an email with me and instead of apologizing she told my team not to ask me any questions as I would confuse everyone. But everyone called me to say that I was right and they felt bad for me. Of course in in-front of my manager lol anyways good video! Thank you again!
So I'm only 24, but I'm currently dealing with a situation, and I want to give 17 year old me the biggest high five for starting a bullet journal because now I have a record of basically everything I did at work! I had no idea how useful that would become.
Yesss!!!! Also diaries!!!! This doesn't just apply to work! I remember listening to a podcast in college where someone was asking for advice to help a friend escape domestic violence, and the given advice was to write down everything their friend confided them in with dates so that if their friend eventually wanted to talk to police they would at least have that documentation. Also writing down stories, or things friends and family tell you can help you come up with very thoughtful gifts!
Everytime I've "complained" it was due to an employee violating the rules of the company that they put me in charge to enforce. When I tried to resolve it with the employee they won't listen so I was told to contact HR and HR is a worthless bimbo because when I report said employee they have this tone like they don't like me reporting their friend. So I've accepted that they're bias and prejudice and have their favorites, which is only going to backfire on them😂
thats the issue, there might not be a better stable alternative elsewhere, and it is especially difficult when you have a mortgage to get on top of with kids
Whe all people do is flee from their prolems, they find them somewhere else. The problem gets bigger for everyone. It might not be so bad if more people tried to communicate. Most give up and keep their heads down, or worse, lie. Both sides are at fault.
I have been horribly bullied for the past five years by my director. He writes me up for the stupidest things. I just received my second annual review that says I am incompetent. I haven't gone to HR because of exactly what you are saying in these videos, everyone has said they won't do anything. I have seen him do crazy things twice now only to be put on a "plan of improvement" that changed nothing. I am four years from retirement so I have been trying to hold in for that but it is getting almost unbearable. I am actually going to challenge this review and your videos have given me the clarity on how to pare it back my words, thank you.
I emailed HR about unsafe working conditions during covid. I was fired two days later and told “we don’t want people working here that don’t feel safe”. I was with this company for three and a half years, in management the last year and a half.
Now that was silly of you the reason why they let you go is b/c you might sue the company if you don't feel safe at work, HR is not your friend they are not there for you, they are there for the company, they don't want a lawsuit b/c you don't feel safe at work, so it was easier just to fired you.
I wrote to my jobs HR hours before watching this video and I'm confident that I should get some positive results. I didn't criticize my supervisor nor the company but I did comment that I was beginning to feel hopeless and overwhelmed due to little knowledge of my duties after training. I work as customer service so I'm sure you can imagine how my calls would go with a rep., who has little knowledge of her responsibilities. I begged for either more training or at least a requirement for supervisors to revise our job duties during our meetings. I'm hoping that this ends well, I will comment my results after everything is done. If anyone has any assumptions or comments of what you think will happen and what I should prepare for next, I would really appreciate it!
**UPDATE** So after I sent the email to HR, I reached out to my supervisor letting her know and she actually put in a leave of absence for me. I was out for two weeks and unfortunately, since I had just started, I didn't get paid but that was fine. I'm now back at work and although I didn't get the training nor do we do updates in our meetings, I'm doing feeling a lot better and my calls are going a lot smoother.
@@HostileWorkplaceEXPOSED Hey Kathy to answer your questions on what was the reason for my leave of absence, I'm not sure what my supervisor may have done or said for HR to approve the leave of absence. However nothing changed at all when I came back from leave. Everything that I requested to HR went unheard and I never received a response from HR at all, but now we have meetings every other day and my supervisor leaves the door open for any questions we may have before we begin our duties and that has helped our team TREMENDOUSLY! I hope I was able to answer your questions, and I commend you for standing for your team and seeking help. Don't let whatever punishment that gave you stir you from motivating your team!
15:51 - Misspelled Right Thing. That's ok, your video is spot on. After 8 years in this company, my manager started last year making jabs about my age. In December, I "anonymously" questioned the corporate ethics board about free overtime salaried employees put in over the last two years (50 to 70 hours a week, even when we were on a 32-hour week during Covid). Two weeks later, my annual review was not good, and I denied several claims and defended them with actual production numbers to show I had been producing. The manager did asked my age, and from that point tried to convince me to retire. When I said I planned on working a couple more year yet, my manager then put in a negative review, listed as unsatisfactory performance, and put me on a work improvement plan. Of course, they have done all they can to keep me from meeting those goals. I am actively looking for an attorney in employment law and will go down the EEOC pathway. You have recommendations in Central Florida?
4:20 7:00 7:28 complain in writing 8:30 focus on illegal activities 9:02 I feel like im being harassed 9:36 complaining without antagonizing 11:00bullyboss 13:15 What to Expect: 14:30 investigation
I, as an operations manager, watched a loss prevention manager steal from the store's HR manager. The store director (top dog in the building, basically) ended up being removed from his position. So, not a complaint, but it was blatantly clear that the web was woven in a way that perpetrators weren't likely to feel a pinch, but anybody else might.
I wish I had these vids when I was working at walmart. I had a manager who would throw things like printers and hand helds. He even yelled at one of my co workers and called her stupid. I didn't know how to complain so I eventually left.
Wow. I’m so sorry you had to experience this. Your coworker isn’t stupid. I also worked at Walmart and faced a similar situation. I’m so glad you are okay and left. It makes me happy to see you stand up for yourself!
I had a disagreement with a new manager on several client files and she tried to pin the blame on me but I defended myself. She ended up appeasing the clients by paying out thousands on claims that shouldn't have been issued so I reported her to HR. After a few weeks, I was blind sided by HR and my manager during a work call which appears that they were trying to build a case against me and question my integrity. They had to take it to another call to get the go ahead to terminate me from a Director whom I didn't get to speak with directly then I received a severance package with nondisclosure clause and another stating I cannot sue the company. I am glad I came across this video I will know how to protect myself moving forward.
I took several issues to HR over a period of about 10 years, that I had with local management. They were successfully resolved with no retaliation. From reading the comments here it looks like it depends on the company culture.
Bah, it doesn't matter if you complain or not. Most will simply blow you off. I have complained the correct way and, when everything else failed, the incorrect way. Nothing worked until the lawyers got involved. All of a sudden they are speaking nicely to me.
I tell this story because you asked, Branigan. I'm an engineer and gave a presentation on what our product needed to achieve to be in compliance with federal regulations. Engineering management did not agree because of the extra cost, though my presentation showed step-by-step rationale for my arguments and references to the regulations. I began hearing rumors that management thought I shared the non-compliance with our customer, which was not true, and I headed into the VP of Engineering's office to explain that I needed to present the facts could be fully aware of the decisions being made. I later called the company's anonymous hotline and explained the situation. An investigation was opened and I kept in contact with HR about the situation. Shortly after, performance reviews came out for everyone and my boss underlined a section in mine that he said he was required to include by his boss that said due to recent events, trust in my judgement was damaged. I forwarded this to the HR and told them I thought this might be retaliation. HR determined it was retaliation, and compensated me for the effect on my salary. An engineer over me put together a poor rebuttal of my argument full of non-sequitur and red herrings. I kept my job, though I'm probably marked. I did not win the argument, but I am on record if ever our regulatory compliance is questioned. I looked for another job, but didn't find anything with similar compensation, so I remained with the company. Thoughts, Branigan?
I work in HR and is totally fair that the balance of power is a problem. I would consider that screwing over employees unfairly is not in the long term interests of the company and I have left companies when the owners' ethics were unacceptable.
I'm going through divorce and I just learnt that my ex wife had been having direct communication with 3 HR managers (from 2 companies of the same organization), since the time I separated from her. they have been sharing my personal and confidential information with her (visa status, performance, employment termination reason, etc.). I have text messages from her actually mentioning those communications. It's been a tough divorce and she told her side of the story to my HR manager making me look like a monster. She took her side and soon after my manager started to harass me, ridicule me in from of people and even complain aggressively about little things. They terminated my contract without any explanation. I'm gathering all the evidence and I will file a lawsuit against the organization. Due to the nature of the business is likely the organization may want to keep this issue as private as possible. Should I consider a settlement?
Companies usually will do duo diligent to check your words with her words. No companies will be stupid enough not to listen to your side of the story, just hers. You need to rewrite your story.
Mistake 1: Assuming people watching this vid are working. I'm here because I want to see if people claiming to know actually know. Mistake 2: Telling people watching what they should do, as if it's his choice. Make your own calls. Most people don't do corrections, generalize, mock what they don't understand. Try to "sugarcoat" instead of sticking to facts or admitting their own hypocrosy, etc. It's about sticking to the facts and addressing context. If you ask a question and get an explanation before a yes or a no (etc) then get a straight answer first. Sometimes people mean to do it. Often times it's bad habit. The focus is on honesty. A dishonest reputation is bad for business. Make that clear and it can appeal to their sense of greed.
You are absolutely correct and I base this on my own experience. I like the idea of coming up with a possible compromise i.e. moving to another department. I had an issue at my last place of employment and what you said happened exactly as you said it would. Unfortunately for me and fortunately for them, COVID hit, and wonder of wonders, they laid me off.
So true, HR definitely cover's their butt. No matter how egregious. I ended up with an EEOC Charge and now negotiating a settlement. Save all emails and written correspondence, is my advice.
CM it sounds like we probably have some similarities perhaps, assuming were both covered as protected class workers in our situations. I'm just debating whether or not to bring my issue up to HR or go straight to EEOC with my grievance and let them sort it out. After all these horror stories I'm not sure if going through HR is going to benefit me at all. I work for the State of California. Your thoughts?
@Kevin Johns you should look at the employee handbook and follow their grievance procedure first, even if it says you have to reach out to hr then do it or it could hurt your case. Even if hr doesn’t take it serious
Great video! I’m currently dealing with a very hostile workplace and I’ve been targeted as the Scapegoat. I’ve been quietly collecting evidence and I’ve been documenting. It’s now time to gather it up, create a complaint with the model of your video and submit it. I’m also the top producer at the company. Meanwhile I’m searching for a new job.
hostile comes from agression which is released through physical pain endured through the activity your performing ! so if everyone is running at breakneck speed burnout is inevitable!
Not in the US, but my sister works for a very big international delivery company (I won't say their name but you definitely know them). One of her co-workers has a baby, and he is currently sick in the hospital. She asked to take sick days to be with him, denied. asked to take vacation days to be with him, also denied. Her baby son is sick in the hospital and the company wouldn't let her be with him! Needless to say, she's looking for a new job right now.
HR helped my boss plot a constructive discharge. Fortunately, my boss botched the execution of their plan, and I was able to document what they did. They backed off rather than risk firing me. The bad news is HR made me keep working for that boss while my complaint against her was being processed. Almost two years of working that way. I feel like I deserve a medal.
I find this all so interesting, also, it triggers memories that I don't need to dwell on. I am so glad I retired at 62! It is a shame that there is too many insecure people in the work force!
In a perfect nation every business would have a union steward on hand working with HR, or, HR would have a government appointed watchdog to shadow everything HR does in regard to such issue. This would completely remove conflict of interest with HR. Also, arbitration should be illegal. Whenever any company requires you to sign your legal rights away, that is a company to stay away from.
I was fired. I was told it was for not enough work. Well just the prior week on a Thursday I broke my hand on the job doing job task. I went home early that day and I called in sick the following. I never been hurt at work before so I was unaware of the procedure. The job supervisor was present when I got hurt. So on a Tuesday the both of us were laid off. At that time I did send pictures to the company management so he knew I was injured. The thing is I didn't go to a doctor. It also was September 2020 and I did lose wages for 5 months that pay. That year I would've made $95,000.the most I have ever
Here is the thing though, I would only make a complaint to the HR, if I'm the victim of a workplace harassment case, such as sexual harassment or physical assault, because that's usually the scenario where police would get involved and I believe I can also sue the company for a lump sum. But if I encountered any other situation, such as racism, sexiam, ageism or religionism (if that's a word), what I would do is I would secretly looking for better opportunities and leave the company and everything behind. The reason is that whatever happens at work, as long as police is not involved, it's always gonna be your word against the company's and you'll always lose, because you just don't have the financially ability and legal accessibility to bring things to court when it comes down to that. However, when things are escalated to the point where police is getting called to the scene, it will no longer be a civil lawsuit. But whether it's a police-involved case or not, I would leave that company anyway.
Thank you so much for making this video! It's very empowering and helps me not fall into the victim mentality. The sad thing is that we have to deal with this a lot in the work place, but the good thing is this is a healthy way to grow through it. Thank you,
Had a horrendous year and a half working at Panera and when I went to HR they were even more careless than my coworkers about me being mistreated on the job. After watching this video I now see the tricks he uses on me making me feel like they were angry about how I'd been treated when really they just wanted to make sure I had nothing solid to sue them on. Job after that has been a blessing but being a minority means you're getting treated like crap in every workplace and eventually it's started to happen here too. This time around I wanna be legally ready to fight it
I complained to hr about accommodations for 2 disabilities. I was on psych meds too to treat nonpsych problems and they had increased dosages. Doctors warned me about it can affect my thinking abilities. I wasn't doing well with the increased, so I contacted hr and supervisors. I also have diabetes and I would forget to eat for days at a time bc of the medicationsI, so I would have symptoms of hypoglycemia. I also had some other stuff going on that messed with my mental abilities. I was making mistakes at work. I told them about the meds and diagnosis. Hr told me that they werent sure how to accommodate me. I asked them do they need something from my doctors and they said NO! They ended up firing me, main complaint was "poor performance" for mistakes and "talking about my health problems to managers." Two lawyers told me to go after for discrimination, so that's what I'm doing. Everything you said here happened. Now they're trying to keep it away from the EEOC by offering a speedy settlement now! 😒
Not your friend... You've got that right!!! I'll never take anything to HR ever again. I was brought into question after a coworker inappropriately touched me!!
Hey @Branigan Roberson Quick yes or no point to ask. ( P.S> your content is such high quality. Thank you for all the advice) Question: I'm being forced (Bullied and manipulated) to use my own money, vehicle and overtime worked towards the company that a single middle manager is blocking/not willing to pay. Additionally, working far beyond my scope of work. This lead to some 23-hour work shifts that were expected of me to be back at work the next day for a normal shift with no rest. Is this legally worth addressing? Should I see a lawyer?
I have always found complaining to HR tends to throw a bomb into the middle of the work place. For example, employee A says they were harassed. Employee B and C say yes totally. Offender A says I do not recall, but there was music playing, and I was singing to it. result. Offender A apologizes for perceived harassment, and music is now banned for everyone, punishable by termination.
Thanks for your videos. I've worked for the same company for 17 years and have found HR not helpful on minor issues, so to go to them with something bigger, I would definitely need to a very well thought out plan that your videos provide. While looking for info on PTO and HR, I came across your videos months back. Back in September, the head of regional HR in Arizona sent out an email about our 2022 PTO expiring at the end of the year. This was a policy instituted by Tenet Healthcare back in February 2020, but because of covid it had always rolled over into an old bank until 2022. I work in a hospital ER, so it makes it challenging to use PTO if your hospital lacks staff, there are too many patients, and management won't let you use it. I was curious if this was even legal, and still to this day haven't managed to find a great answer. Quite a few people I know had between 150-200 hrs of their PTO set to 0 on the last pay period of 2022. Being as Tenet has hospitals, imaging, and surgery centers all over California I'm sure it's happening there, have you heard of or had any lawsuits about this type of stuff or would this not be a good case in California?
I am a HR Manager. I agree with many of your suggestions and disagree with many but in all this is a great video! I think it depends on the company size and culture. Definitely dependent on the HR person. I don’t always take the company or manager side at all, most employees don’t want to complain and they more than likely have a real issue and take it serious. Again, you made some great suggestions here!
hey what if you don't mind answering what part do you agree and disagree with and why from your experience. I am thinking of changing majors to human resource because i really want to be around people and help them, but the more I research into it, it seems as though HR people are corporate puppets and do not actually care about employees. it would be of great help to hear. Thank you!
HR May mean well but they generally not very bright and executive mgmt is fully of ego maniacs who dont know the law. That is why companies lose lawsuits.
I have a friend who was once pulled into an office by his boss. His boss then explains that they want my friend to change some documentation so that a product that has lead in it was listed as not having lead in it- in other words, fraud. My friend refused both on the basis that the action was wrong and because it was stupid- the specifics of the situation basically meant that the fraud would have gotten caught as soon as those parts shipped. He got fired two weeks later. He spoke to a lawyer who informed him that 'because he didn't actually commit the action, there was nothing they could do'. He found out later that the company owner was friends with a huge portion of the legal community in the area.......so apparently any sort of justice for the situation was always out of the question.
