The so-called "FBI Load" was a travesty for the 10mm and continues to haunt the round to this day. I don't think anyone interested in 10mm is looking for reduced recoil these days... 40 S&W fits that role quite well (if that is what they really want), yet we are stuck with .40 disguised as 10mm loadings. I wish, at the very least, that if ammo makers are going to put out reduced power 10mm, they ought to mark the boxes as "FBI Load" for those people who somehow want a 10mm but for some reason are recoil sensitive and then offer full power loadings for everyone else (in boxes with pictures of chest hair on them)... why should Underwood, Double Tap, and a Buffalo Bore get all the business? This is why I have taken to reloading my own
Excellent insight into the root of the issue with the 10mm caliber! As I mentioned it is incumbent on the buyer to know and understand the history of the round the ballistic capability of the ammunition they purchase. Thanks for viewing and we hope to hear from you again soon.
There are two downsides to that FBI Lite Load. Not only do we continue to be haunted by the low-power paradigm established by that load. But because that load ushered in the .40S&W bullet, we now are haunted by .40 projectiles being loaded into 10mm cases and being passed off as 10mm. And when people attempt to load .40 bullets to 10mm speeds, undesirable things often happen. Petals overextend and flatten against bullet shanks, petals completely frag off, decently swaged jackets and cores start shriveling (XTPs, Noslers), even bonded bullets peel almost all the way off (SGDs), and beautiful signature expansion patterns turn into ugly shrapnel (HST, Talons/Rangers/PDX Defenders). We are handicapped by loads AND projectile builds.
@@texasbeast239 In my experience, the 180 and 200 gr XTPs do pretty well with full power 10mm, at least with all the velocity a 4.6 inch barrel can give them. I have taken several deer with the 200 gr XTP from Underwood, which chronos right at or slightly above 1200 fps from my Glock 20, and it performed very well.
The reason we have so many reduced loads is that 10mm pushes the limits of a lot of frames. There is on average more wear and tear and parts need to be replaced more frequently. Remember the Colt Omega and how their frames all cracked ? These lighter loads are also good for training and long sessions. The advantage of having a round that can go into .41 Magnum territory means that you have to pay the price somewhere. We all remember the stories about S&W 29's being sold off with a box of ammo with one round missing and back in the day you had people who stuck to the .38 special no matter what even if they could carry a .357 Magnum. I do remember the articles in gun mags of the time where they hyped the 10mm as the Second Coming and it would be the perfect gun for cops, when they had hyped the Desert Eagle as the future gun of choice for every cop only a few years before because it had more ammo capacity in .357 magnum than a revolver. And then they saw the .40 S&W light with special FBI magic and then we got the 9mm with special Glock Magic ... 10mm is for people who want ammo that can outperform most common types and do things like barrier penetration.
You can't "hop up" a .40 S&W to do what a 10mm Auto can do, at least not staying within SAAMI specs. The 10mm Auto case holds ~24 gr of water. The .40 S&W case holds ~19 gr of water. Additionally, SAAMI spec max average chamber pressure is 37,500 PSI for the 10mm Auto and 35,000 PSI for the .40 S&W. There is no SAAMI spec +P designation for the .40 S&W, so the 10mm Auto enjoys an advantage in both case capacity and allowable max average chamber pressure. This means the .40 S&W will never do what the 10mm Auto can do if you are staying safe within industry limits for both cartridges. There is a great deal of variation with 10mm Auto ammunition, but fortunately, in my experience, most 10mm Auto shooters bought their 10mms to enjoy the performance of 10mm Auto. Those who are looking for .40 S&W performance already own a .40 S&W. I don't know anyone who shoots a lot of name brand FBI-Lite loads through their 10mms. Most of us shoot Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, or Underwood almost exclusively for serious stuff, and reload our practice ammo. I EDC my Glock 20, and have for years. My state is Constitutional Carry with open carry and transportation of firearms not only legal, but protected by state law. So I carry strong side OWB, and just throw a light jacket, shirt or hoody over the top of it when I want to be discreet. But I enjoy the peace of mind 15 rounds of Underwood 200 gr XTPs brings me. I've seen this load perform in tissue as I have taken several deer with it, and I know it works. I had some guns stolen out of my truck while I was moving years ago, and for a while, the Glock 20 was my only pistol. I shot 10mm exclusively for long enough that going back to 9mm or .45 just seems anticlimactic and underwhelming, so I carry and shoot mostly 10mm these days. I just like the warm fuzzies that 10mm Auto gives me so that is what I carry.
To be clear, which you were not, there are commercially available full power 10mm hunting rounds available on the market that offer deep penetration through heavy bone and muscle. For this reason along with its 15 round magazine capacity and a quicker follow-up shot capability than big bore revolvers (44 magnum and up) the 10mm has become the most popular handgun for outdoorsmen in Alaska. Simply put, 15 rounds of 357 magnum power in 40 caliber cartridge.
The XDM Elite Compact 3.8 10mm is probably the most concealable 10mm on the market right now. The 11rd magazines without the magwell fit flush enough for it to be concealed, while having the ability to index the pinky on the mag for grip. Lastly, it is proven to be able to handle some of the hotter loads out there. Just monitor the trigger Shoe after training, and you'll be set.
What I'm doing with my Glock 29 is running what are effectively super hot 40 S&W 200gr hollow points EDC, and full power 200gr hard cast for backpacking. Great and versatile caliber and gun.
everything you say about the ten mm is true many 10 mm rounds are on par with the S&W 40 cal. which btw is a well proven self-defense round. why I like the 10 mm over 40 cal. It gives me the ability to step up to a more power round if I feel the situation calls for it. no one will feel out gunned if a 40 cal. is their EDC but it is nice to know if you are out hunting in a place where you may encounter a large predator that same EDC is capable of handling a higher-powered round when called on to do so.
@4:30…. Alaska State Troopers do NOT issue Glock 20 10mm. They issue the Gen4 Glock 22 (.40). Before that, they issued the older Gen3 Glock 22 model. I don’t know where that incorrect rumor stems from, but the three divisions of the Alaska State Troopers (Patrol, wildlife and Fire Marshals) have never issued 10mm.
Sig Sauer 10mm JHP meets the original specs 180gr 1250fps 624 fl-lbs. Its always at my local Big name outdoors store. The price is not that bad when it comes defense carry ammo.
I just got into the 10mm game after owning a 40 S&W for over 20 years and right off the bat the difference is massive. I bought the cheapest brass cased ammo I could find, 180gr S&B and tested them this weekend along with a few 165gr handloads I worked up from range brass. They were smoking down the barrel around 350 fps faster than a .40 of the same weight and you can feel it in the wrists. I ordered 500 more rounds of the S&B and that will give me enough brass that I will probably never have to buy ammo again so I will have to take your word for it on the weak factory loads, cause the S&B ones are legit. I will say from my experience and testing so far that 10mm loves a little extra barrel length. My Glock 40 gets significantly higher fps than load data on a 4.5" barrel.
Thanks for the excellent info. I noticed years ago that only the specialty 10mm ammo had a higher level of performance. The standard stuff was about the same as the 40. So I went to the magnum revolver for a woods type gun.
The FBI watered down the 10mm load, picked a dud S&W gun to shoot it from, then abandoned the caliber in the early '90s. In 1997, the bureau embraced .40S&W, which gave the same weakened power in a smaller package for smaller hands. This formula prospered in law enforcement and civilian circles for 2 decades. Without the big government contract and with a more user-friendly competitor now on the market, 10mm barely survived for the next few decades. It did so largely by .40S&W bullets loaded weak into longer cases and being masqueraded as 10mm. I call it "10mmINO": "10mm In Name Only". You're exactly right that boutique ammo companies and reloading are the only way for us to get true 10mm power nowadays. But even then, most of the projectiles available are still .40S&W and therefore really only built for .40S&W speeds. Overspending interferes with proper expansion and leads to fragging. So even when the boutique companies and reloaders try to load up to 10mm power, their hands are still kinda tied. We need REAL 10mm bullets and loads these days, but so far they don't seem to exist.
The G29 having a shorter stock is a predominant feature of why I keep it in my carry rotation. The grip is the most difficult part to conceal, and the Keel Principle holds that having more mass to the slide than the grip will make the pistol more comfortable and easy to carry for curvy folks, as it will be less likely to tip outwards while you move. The weight of the pistol and the wide grip does also make this a very pleasant shooter for its size and caliber. Not a pistol for everyone, but it's very good at what it does.
I bought a M&P 2.0 4.625 inch barrel 10mm without a safety. It is my belt carry choice. Mine is quad ported by Mag-Na-Port and installed a Carver Custom thick tungsten heavy guide rod for added recoil mitigation.
Living in East Tennessee, in town I carry a Sig P365 in my pocket. But anytime I travel thru the Appalachian Mountains (or Trout fishing), I’m carrying a 10mm. Either a Glock M29 or a 1911 Government model-Springfield Armory TRP. I always carry spare mags, each mag a different purpose. In the gun are Glaser’s (Silver) or Double-Tap. In another spare mag is my Bear Load (Buffalo Bore Hard Cast - 750 foot pounds of muzzle energy). Most of my lighter loads are about 600 foot pounds of muzzle energy. Not much recoil. I mean, I’m an NRA Instructor with 35 years of experience and an IDPA member that long as well. I’m no novice. Remember the famous saying from Jeff Cooper? “Carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting not necessarily comfortable.” However, I carry the 1911 in an extremely comfortable Shoulder rig by Craft Holsters. It rotates partially for a smoother faster draw. I carry the Glock M29 in a superbly comfortable IWB rig from Bullseye Holsters. In both, it’s so comfortable that can wear either all day long, come home and watch Yellowstone and fall asleep in my “Dad’s recliner”, still armed.
They make finger extensions. I have a 30 same problem. Also, if you want to make The Gun more stable, put a light on it.😊 big difference🥰 that means you have to get a holster with the light❤️
I carry the G20 as my edc usually. When i carry the G29 I use a standard magazine with an x grip. .40 is not close to real 10mm. I carry underwood ammo and fort scott 125 grain that is screaming. Accuracy and follow up shots are no issue.
This was great! My g29 is my favored choice between the g19 mostly because I have small hands and it just grips better for me. Definitely have to make sure to check the pressures when choosing ammo. Took me a while to decide mostly because I just carry when hiking in the UP in case big game doesn't back off.
I carried a 357Sig for 20 years. Used 40 & 9 (with barrel conversions) to save $ on ammo cost for training. From a Gen2, G31 40 conversion barrel, 165gr jhp custom loads are at 1250fps. That's every bit as hot as any 10mm I can find other than from Buffalo Bore or Underwood. It smokes a 9mm so badly it isn't debatable. And it's slightly stronger than the 147gr 357Sig I carried for ages. I bought 300 rounds, 15 boxes, of Underwood mixed 150, 180 JHP and 200 hardcast for my new M&P 10 2.0. The blasted thing won't reliably cycle any of them. Extremely disappointed. Seems they're neutered the gun to run 40S&W loads. I don't need or want a carry gun in 10mm that's running the same energy as my old 357S & 40S&W. It's a waste of money, time and space. I can carry a G41 in 45Super or 460Rowland and smoke the total pants off them, but I don't need or want to carry that big in the mountains and swamps of Virginia and the Carolinas. Nice presentation. Liked and subscribed.
I carry the M&P 4”. Have over about a thousand rounds through it by now. Only issue I’ve had with it was mag related. For me it’s a good size. About the same as a Glock 19x. I would love to be able to carry the 10mm at work but we can only carry 9 or 45.
I don't think a lot of people understand why 10 mm is hard to find in full power. Full-power 10 mm tends to beat up guns and ammunition manufacturers lowered it so that it's about 80% of Sammy. 10 mm can be loaded for 500 all the way up to 800 foot pounds of energy. I personally like the sig Sauer rated at 624 lb of energy I feel like that's a great cartridge for carry that defeats 9 mm end all 45.
You asked for feedback on the Springfield 10MM XDME 3.8, As of today I've owned and carried mine for 14 months and a few days of edc, I have shot a little over 2,600 rounds of various types and have had zero issues, FWIW the manufacturer did a successful 10,000 round torture test prior to release. A big plus for this gun is it's ability to be easily transformed into many configurations, With a simple magazine change you can have a full size grip or compact grip depending on the size of your hands and comfort level, The slide is already cut so you can go red dot or not, the 3.8 and 4.5 slides are interchangeable on the frame, it can easily be outfitted with a go gun gas pedal in place of the takedown lever, that really makes a big difference with muzzle flip on this 10mm gun when you're shooting rapid fire to keep your follow up shots right on target, pearce grip makes a plus 1 pinky extension for the magazines 12+1 or 16+1 and dawson precision offers sites that cowitness.
Im a big guy. Im a 6'4 200 pound man. I carry a Glock 20 10mm as my EDC. I also have a .40 cal but i felt like my hand was too big for it. Your talking for the majority of short people 😂. You gotta think about us tall people too lol. My wingspan is twice of yours. My torso is longer. My hands and fingers are freakishly long so the G20 fits it snug. I also carry it on my appendix comfortably for hours on end, when i drive also. Different calibers for different people of size.
I daily carry Liberty Civil Defense 60gr, 2400fps out of my Bond Arms derringer. It's a great round for personal defense. It has 780fpe and leaves a massive cavity with significant fragmentation without over-penetration.
@@joshklaver47 it's a little under (about 2200) out of my derringers 3 inch barrel, but that's still insanely fast. I also use it in my Springfield xdm elite 10mm
I have owned a Colt Delta Elite for many years. I believe in the original loading data for it, as I use it for hunting and backpacking. However I do like my M&P Shield for every day carry. Thanks for a great video.
You’re right, I just won’t carry a small pistol in 10mm. If I’m going to carry a 10mm, I’m going to carry a full-size pistol and that’s what I do. I’m just more flexible in how I carry my 10mm, versus my 9mm carry options. I have a Tanfoglio Stock Master 10mm, that I really like but due to limited holster options, I just ordered a Glock 20 because holsters are much more plentiful.
I EDCC my G20 because it's the smallest handgun I own. I found a Kydex IWB for my XDM-10-5.25, but bigger is still big. Still looking for one for my Tanfo Match. What I have found works best for fullsize 10mm's is a belly band which you can attach your IWB Kydex too. This distributes the considerable weight of a fullsize gun all the way around your waist, instead of concentrating it in just one spot on your pants waistband. And you can throw an IWB mag holder on the other side, too. Belly bands let you go around beltless, or in shorts, or in PJs, or even commando!
To me, the .40SW is just a much friendlier round. You don't have to get a Ph.D in ballistics to figure out what to carry in a .40. Almost anything for it is going to do what you want. With 10mm, the ammo is all made to different specs and the guns are too. Some guns are meant for the lighter 10s, others are made for the heavy stuff. Both will experience issues if you shoot the stuff it wasn't made for. It's just a lot of hassle, imo. It's a cool round and I like it but I'm not crazy about it. I like my .40s.
That’s a very good point! I own a G40 in 10mm as a backup for hunting and I hand load my ammo as hot as I can manage it. While it is perfectly tailored for MY use, I never considered how the average user (that doesn’t reload) that buys a 10mm can run into trouble with ammo that is either too hot to control or too weak to cycle his gun.
You look like you have larger sized hands. Someone like me, with small girly hands, the G29 with the pinky extension on the mag like you've got, it feels like a full sized grip.
Excellent and informative video...and in under 10 minutes! Thank you1 Glock 20 is my EDC...in a Bianchi OWB holster w/ 2 reload magazines in a Bianchi OWB mag pouch....all hanging on a "Beltman" 1.75" double thick bull hide belt.
As you mentioned, the substantial increase required in the frame and subsequent weight, the .40S&W over the 10mm is more desired in my book. With Glock’s new Generation 5 and their increase in slide and frame along with the 20lbs recoil system has made the .40 Cal far more manageable platform in my book, again. With only a 3oz increase in weight comparing the G19/4 to the G23/5 the .40S&W is now my desired carry platform. As to the much heavier .45ACP and 10mm don’t make a shooter better or more threatening, but accuracy and followups do. These big guys, the .45ACP or the 10mm, are just too large and heavy for an IWB carry and conceal, for me, where the same power can be had in the .40 Caliber.
You mean 10mm. The decision to thicken the slide of the Gen5 .40s was complete overkill and makes for a poorer handling handgun compared to the G19. I've owned every .40 cal Glock including a G24 running a KKM .357 barrel and full power Underwood rounds, and have never seen a cracked slide or frame, using the factory recoil spring. When you increase slide mass, you also increase perceived recoil. My Gen5 G23 feels considerably snappier than my Gen4 G27 (a smaller gun).
All salient points! The 10mm lends itself to some large frames to handle the energy and for me provide some balance issues especially when the mag is running low due to no counterweight. I also could not agree more about multiple shots. Energy comes at a cost.....controllability. Thanks for supporting our channel, I deeply appreciate it.
@@9unslin9er I can’t lie, I love the new Glock 23 gen 5 and the Glock 22 gen 5. A little heavier than the gen 4 but i soaks that recoil up much better than the other gen’s. I think Glock nailed it. No 40 s&w should be shot out of a 9mm frame. But it can be done. The thicker frame makes it easier to handle if you ask me. I RESPECTFULLY disagree.
@@mrheavenbound9164 The frame is the exact same width my guy. It's the SLIDE that's thicker. *I carried a G22 on duty since 2009, and went through every .40 cal Glock Gen3-5. I've qualified with them all for on and off-duty use. The Gen5 accuracy is subpar. The "marking" barrel actually ruins the gun's accuracy. The heavier slide and elimination of fingergrooves causes a substantially bigger recoil impulse.
@@9unslin9er yeah you’re right. It’s the slide that’s thicker. My mistake. And shout out to you and all your achievements!!! But it’s my opinion. You have yours… and I have mines. .
I believe the original 10mm power was 175gr or 180gr bullets with a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps or a 200gr out at 1250 fps. I like the Hornady 155gr XTP with a muzzle velocity of 1410 fps or Underwood's 155gr ASP or XTP bullets rated for 1500 fps. These cartridges do not normally shoot well in a short barrel. The test barrels for 10mm are usually 5" and therefore; the rounds are designed for a full length barrel. Short barrels (under 4"?) will give increased recoil and more flash/bang, similar to a snub nosed .357 Magnum.
ya, I would agree with you here. All 10mm owners I know, for the most part, know exactly what ammo to shoot. I like underwood 200 or 220 hardcast, and the only time im buying other brands of 10mm is if it's on sale or i can find it really cheap. Other than that, I have noticed most people who move up into 10mm territory tend to be more or less experienced and know what they are getting into. I think this dude is generally pretty good, but like most, he appeals to authority and wants to seem like he is some sort of insider on the subject. If you want to know more, the buffalo bore site has good articles on 10mm, as well as other things.
Something to consider is that LTC Jeff Cooper originally started wildcatting with .40cal cartridges back in the '70s with the modest ideal of beating .45ACP by achieving 200gr at 1000fps. But when he teamed up with Dornaus & Dixon on the Bren Ten project, they told him they could squeeze 1100fps out of the cartridge he had dreamt up. Then when Norma was selected to manufacturer the rounds, they said they could get 1200fps and more out of them. While we typically don't get the 10mm mutant monster that eventually developed in the early '80s, we DO get what Cooper originally envisioned. .40 is still a .45-beater.
10mm is a bit much for a compact polymer pistol, which is why very few manufacturers offer them. The Glock 29 has issues with frame flexing under recoil. If you want a compact or sub-compact pistol, there will be a much larger selection in .40 S&W or even .357 SIG. If you're okay with a larger pistol, 10mm is outstanding.
Glock 20 is my go to woods gun. Underwood 165gr bonded JHP is my choice for all around woods and human defense. I carry it IWB in a slimfit holster with XS Big Dot sights.
Use Underwood ammo or reloads and I carry Springfield elite 3.8 barrel, i carry it in a fanny pack until can get a left holster i like! I also have 15 round mags for it. Love the gun, I carry 10 mm to stop an active shooter by penetrate body armor or to leave one hell of bruise before I die.
i edc the sa elite compact 10 w 3.8" barrel...i installed pearse +1 mag extensions (mag well removed for full grip) which gives me 13 rds of stopping power. s&b jhp ammo is readily available and relatively inexpensive and yields 1200 fps and 550 ft lbs...
Full-sized, all steel, high-end 1911s beneath each arm in a double shoulder-holster. Underwood 155 gr. in 9 rd. mags + one in each chamber. Two extra magazines on belt for 38 rounds total. Each round with 774 ft. lbs. of energy. Should be good unless attacked by one or more polar bears on meth.
There are original Norma 10mm full power loads…..pretty easy to Google the three loads and compare to what’s on the market today. At least that’s how my neighbor chooses 10mm ammunition.
A glock 29 is a hair over an inch shorter than the g20. G29 is a great inside the waistband option, especially in states with magazine capacity restrictions
For an appendix draw, the extended grip will print so that a bljnd person will see it. My G29 with leather 1791 inside belt holster does NOT print at all, due to the small grip. I practice drawing, & have no issues getting good purchase on the draw. It took a bit of getting used to, yet like everything else, practice...practice...PRACTICE!!!
Are you having problems torquing the mag and not feeding correctly? I keep getting jams and misfeeds with my x grips ... Even the pinky extensions from Pierce grip...
Woods Gun: I used a glock 23 loaded with 180 fmj as a woods gun in WA, SD, IA. If I was where there were brown bears or moose, Id definitely go with a 20. The .357sig seems to have niche as woods gun down south, or at least that what internet comments and discussion make it seem.
I have two guns that I carry. Fat Man and Little Boy. Fat Man is a Glock 20sf with a 6" aftermarket fluted barrel and Little Boy is a M&P Shield 40. My Dynamic Duo.
I suppose the S&W 610 is chopped liver? I know it’s only a six shooter, but I can handle anything you put in it, so it’s an N frame, but us big guys can conceal it just fine.
There's no reason to carry a 10mm revolver. There will always be an equivalent revolver in .357 Magnum, which will deliver more power and give you more options for loading with speed loaders, speed strips, etc. Auto calibres just don't really make sense in revolvers.
Kinda weird that it took a while for S&W to bring a 10mm M&P 2.0 to market considering the fact that they were one of the first (if not THE first) manufacturers to make a 10mm pistol back in the day! Very informative video (kudos), but I think I'll stick with my PPQ in .40.
Walther makes a great pistol for sure and it did seem to take smith awhile to put that out. At shot show this past year one of their own poster ads said.....Finally with a picture of the M&P 10mm. Thanks for viewing and be safe.
My guess is that a whole chain of events conspired to make S&W avoid 10 for the last 3 decades, and to hang on to .40 instead. In 1989, S&W's 4506 .45ACP handgun was selected as the basis of the FBI's first 10mm duty weapon over Glock, despite Glock warning against several of the contract specs the FBI was demanding. Firstly, Glock thought their new polymer frame approach could absorb a lot of the mighty 10's recoil snap, so there didn't seem to be any real need for a steel frame as the FBI was insisting. But that wasn't all. The resulting S&W 1076 was a complete dud as issued. It was a fat, heavy, all-steel gun intended for hot loads, but fed with the weakest 10mm ammo ever--not a good mix. The original S&W 4506 slide-mounted decocker was ordered to be moved down into the frame so more hands could access it--but the frame became even bigger than ever, so it ended up too big for some female agents' hands. Those agents had to use the SSA John Hall's Delta to qualify (no word on what they actually carried in the field, though!). And even though Glock warned there would not be enough room for all the parts to move around in the frame if the decocker was relocated, S&W did it anyway--and the gun jammed constantly, right up to the point of completely seizing up. So the FBI recalled the gun and disowned the caliber for everyday duty after less than 2 years of service (1990-91). Then in 1991, the G20 Gen2 10mm pistol arrived, but methinks the FBI's ego was too bruised to immediately turn to Glock with open arms. The bureau would rather let the caliber die on the vine than pick another 10mm platform so soon, and certainly not if it would help Glock. Not surprisingly, Glock sued the FBI. The bureau seemed just a little too cozy with S&W for common sense, despite the warnings, and given the results. But Glock lost. G20's found limited use in FBI HRT hands, though. And the FBI Lite Load was no longer on the menu. S&W and Winchester were working behind the scenes on a newer cartridge which would give FBI Lite Load power, but in a shorter package that would allow for smaller-framed guns: .40S&W. The FBI was leery at first, so it issued whatever 9mm and .45ACP weapons it could get in bulk during the interim. When the FBI did come around to .40S&W, Glock beat S&W to the punch, and the G23/27 models took the prize, and they were issued for 18 years (1997-2014). (IMO, this could have been a bit of a belated final mea culpa from the bureau over the 10mm fiasco.) So both companies were happy: Glock for the gun, and S&W had its name stamped on every single freedom pill loaded into it. I don't think S&W ever wanted that gravy train to end. The ammo deal was great marketing. And they probably still were smarting from the smackdown over their first 10mm handgun. Why go back to that and directly confront that failure if they didn't have to? Because there is a healthy market for 10mm now! So S&W somehow both jumped the gun (1076) and was also late to the party (M&P 2.0) when it comes to 10mm handguns. Who knew? 🤷🏽♂️
I doubt Glock had any input on S&W's design decisions. They wouldn't know the first thing about making steel pistols anyway. Glock rushed their first .40 S&W models to market, with unsurprising safety issues as a result. It was really the HK USP, Sig P229, and Beretta PX4 Storm that were the standout pistols in .40 S&W, among others.
If you're not carrying defensive ammo from UW, BB, DT or Fenix there is no reason to carry a 10mm over a .40, the little 9mm or slow low energy 45acp. The idea of the 10mm is to have hot 357 or mid 41mag power in a 40 cal auto loading platform. It does exactly that with loadings from the companies mentioned above.
Even the hottest 10mm won't touch an equivalent .357 Magnum, although it is still very stout. You just can't overcome the advantage of an 8mm longer case to stuff full of powder.
A 2pk pinky extension floor plate for a g29 mag is 12 bucks. I'm not mathematician, but I'm pretty sure a g19, holster, spare Mags, and ammo cost more than that.
You should get a .357 SIG conversion barrel. The Underwood 65gr Xtreme Defenders perform insanely well. They're like a mini rifle. They hit 2,100 fps, shoot flat to 100 yards, and zip through Kevlar like a hot knife through butter. They generate as much muzzle energy as 62gr 5.56 out of an AR pistol. Amazing stuff.
Love me some 10mm. The sad thing is that the M&P 10mm has had nothing but reliability problems. I use DoubleTap and Underwood ammo in my Glock 10’s. It is NOT watered down stuff, but sadly most of the other brand out there is just indeed watered down to 40 pressures.
Wow...I'm glad I held off on the 2.0 then. I owned a M&P45 2.0 and the mag catch was broken. I would dump the mag every time I fired a round. I have had more problems with S&W quality control than any other gun company. They'll make things right, but you probably won't get a fully functional one out of the box. Shame.
My m&p 2.0 10MM has been flawless with about 200 plus rounds through it so far zero issues or hiccups even ran extra hot underwood 2 different types as well. FYI 4.6 inch model.
@@colt10mmsecurity68 most have had issues right out the start with the pistol immediately, and I’ve yet to have any issues many others in groups I am in have had flawless performance with many more rounds than I’ve had through mine with zero issues, yes there are issues with some out there for sure, but many have also had zero issues. Always two sides of the coin.
@@johnklatt3522 Interesting. Sadly I live in commifornia and can’t buy ammo off the internet. Finding Underwood in a gun retailer is basically non existent. I have maybe 500 rounds of Underwood in 180 and 200 grain HP’s. I don’t shoot it and bought them when we still could in Cali. I use them for ccw in the sierras on high mountain backpacking fishing trips and big game hunting. After I retire in a year and move to a free state, I’ll buy more underwood.
one of the reasons i stopped carrying a 10mm is exactly what you said. i was using expensive 40 cal ammo and not getting anything out of it. full power 10mm are amazing but hard to find.
I have Glocks in .40 S&W, .357 Sig, and 9mm, and they are good polymer guns. But if I ever decide to buy a handgun in 10mm, it'll be an all-metal gun, and I'll work up my own loads. Given how well my P229 Legion in .40 (and .357) shoots, odds are it'll be a P220. All that said, I don't wander any Alaskan trails, and even if I did I could just carry my Redhawk in .44 Magnum, so I don't need a 10mm.
you have to go to a lighter weight bullet like 165 g win silvertip or 165 rem gold saber bonded to get 500lbs in 40 as where 10mm 180 has over 500lbs . im 58 and been shooting 10 and 40 since my 20s and carry 10mm as leo. fed hydra shock , i know i didnt spell that right, is weak for a 10mm round only bout 1000fps.
My Off-duty/EDC is a Gen4 Glock 30 with flush fit magazine. I strongly favor the baby Glocks because the chopped frames make concealment much easier. I run a Detroit Metro OWB in the 5 o' clock position. The holster has speed clips bolted in an offset position to provide an FBI cant. Very fast and accessible.
As a retired LEO, I really enjoy the Glock 30...great close quarter handgun. As far as the 10MM cartridge, I think many have a mythical belief it's better than anything else for CCW.
@@Lee-rq1ek I've owned every single Glock except for the Micro 9s and found the G30 has the best power/handling to weight ratio of all them. I find .40 to be a superior cartridge, but it's a bit too much blast in a compact firearm. .45ACP is incredibly flat and soft shooting through a Glock. Agreed on 10mm. Along with .380, they should be phased out altogether. There's nothing 10mm can do that .357 Mag didn't already do in the decades that preceded it. Likewise in the realm of mouse guns, it's probably as effective and definitely more financially responsible to just carry and shoot a .22lr Ruger LCR rather than a Glock 42.
@@9unslin9er Never owned a Glock until nine years AFTER I retired...my large SE Texas department has never issued any firearms. For the last 13 years of my career I carried a S&W Model 411, which I still have. I enjoy 40 cal, so the first Glock I purchased was a Glock 22 which I often carry. In my opinion the 40 is a full size gun cartridge...out of the smaller handguns, it can be rough.
@@Lee-rq1ek If you come into some disposable income, try to assemble a Glock 26L (1926). It is a Glock 19 Slide on top a 26 Frame with a Lone Wolf Slide Adapter covering the exposed recoil spring. This combo is essentially a 9mm version of the G30, albeit with a 4" barrel. Highly concealable package with extended sight radius. *Many guns have come and gone in my collection, but one of my biggest regrets was not buying back my G22 Gen3 RTF2 with the fish gill serrations, when my PD switched to Gen4. Such a sweet shooter.
@@9unslin9er I'm pretty much a S&W person, however, I do shoot both Glocks very well. Of course, I have other, older models of handguns...Sig Sauer, Springfield Armory, etc., but I purchase guns for a particular purpose...in 9MM I often carry the S&W 2.0 with the 3.6" barrel...15+1 and will accept the 17 round full-size magazines.
Buffalo Bore does 180gr hollow points at 1,350 fps. Those are a good option. Same with the Underwood 140gr Xtreme Penetrators. They'll go through soft body armour like it's nothing, and they're still devastating against unarmoured targets.
Oh man, and now you double down on controversy!!!! As I said in a previous video I love the 10MM, but not for EDC... I have sort of smallish hands and feel I'm way more comfortable, efficient and effective with my Glock 23 than even with my Glock 40gen4 SF (10MM) witch has a smaller grip circumference (if you will?) than a regular Glock 20... but that's just me (and as I also said previously, the 10MM ammo available in my little corner of Paradise perform just like a .40"SW... so why bother?) and any way, to each his own. As for the grip size length, I'm with you too. I can shoot my Glock 27 ok, but even with extension plates on the mags nowhere near as well as my Glock 23, because the grip on the G27 does not have the length to fill the palm of my hand properly and I even often pinch my hand when speed reloading (witch gets old, really fast... I can tell you that). On the other hand my wife who is really petite and has even smaller hands than me, loves to shoot the G27 (she can get a full 4 fingers grip on the G27 with regular flush mags and the length is just perfect for her... that's how small her hands are) and since the G27 is easier to conceal than the G23, she liberated the G27 from the safe for her exclusive use as EDC and turned her G23 instead in. Really like your content. Thanks for sharing.
Have you chronoed it, yet? YT testers have shown it going more like 1150fps. This is lukewarm for 10mm. And it also has a tendency to frag because it isn't bonded. This limits penetration depth. Sig has a 200gr load that now that may go deeper, but it's also even slower. I think Sig itself rates it at only 1050fps.
I carry a Glock 29 generation 4 for the last 4.5 years with a 200 grain HST full power, however I have been trying to get the 4.8 XDM which ergonomically is much better than the Glock and is rifled to handle hotter loads than the Glock’s barrel, I have a Sig 320 X TEN which I believe there is no other pistol in the market that comes close to it, as for the ammo, most attorneys, law enforcement, and people in the loop will advise you not to use ammo with over the top power such as made for bear defense, Double tap, underwood hard cast among others, since it doesn’t look good in court. Albeit it is a great deal of fun to shoot ammo that comes out at over 2000 feet per second, it is absolutely a great feeling!
Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc, are all 100% fine to use for carry ammo. A good shoot is a good shoot, regardless of your ammunition choice. That is highly unlikely to be a factor in court, and any decent lawyer would tear that apart if the DA tried it.
I can assure that carrying my G20SF was not workable. It’s too heavy and too thick. Underwood loads, but too hard to carry. I dropped down to 9mm for carry. Still love 10mm.
Why would you not share your findings or is that your next video? Are you bound by legal constraints? You should put a 9mm by the 10mm to have a comparative scale.
Thank you for viewing and yes, that is our next video. We shoot the 10mm into some gel and the results are very interesting, stay tuned and thanks again!
Researching your bullet choice is a one time thing. Once you pick a round like Buffalo Bore for bear country you're done. It's not like you have to research every time you buy. It's one and done. Hell, I've spent hours researching the best carry 9mm round and I still watch new research. The size of the gun is a legit concern but if you can't handle researching your carry round you probably lack the attention span to be safe with your carry gun.
I don't think you've made a convincing case against the 10. Your main points are reduced loads and a short grip. Rewatch the video and replace every "10mm" with 45 acp. Your points are all the same. Every 45 guy would say "dude just use hotter loads or get an extended grip. I guess you are an ammo website though.
To be honest, I really do see this as the ammo manufacturers trying to dupe the shooting populous by getting away with using .40s&w bullets and reducing the powder charge weight (saves a lot more money than you might think in production volumes). But in reality the only people being fooled are novices and the Ammo executives that think we don't know what they are doing. Loading the 10mm to "FBI load" levels hasn't ever really been justifiable since the 40S&W got released. It's just cost cutting and everyone knows it. When I do carry my G29SF, I have 165gr full copper HPs from DoubleTap. But in the almost 15 years since I got it, bullet performance has advanced so far that I'm not so concerned about it's benefits over 9. So that's what I'm looking to move to.
That Double Tap ammo gets up to 1,400 fps and over 700 ft lbs of energy. No 9mm round will get even remotely close to that performance, period. 9mm will deliver at most a little over 500 ft lbs of energy with a 124gr bullet.
I respect your opinion, interesting views... I carry a 10mm every day,have for years I started with A Glock 10mm.. I carry Rock island armory TAC10 now.. my dad and me hunt wild hogs on our cattle land and it doubled as a great hunting/edc defense weapon. You gotta know your weapon, ammo and practice practice practice..
@@julianmercier If you read my comment, I said there are warm-hot .40 loads that are more powerful than light 10mm loads. That is 100% true. Obviously the hottest .40 loads can't match the hottest 10mm loads, as the 10mm has a longer case and thus more powder capacity. I didn't think I'd have to explain that in this company.
Why do youtubers do this I won't tell you this information that you want to know about the bullet I'm talking about just call out the brands by name and support your viewers instead of ammo manufacturers
If you shot underwood ammo you wouldn’t thank that way a 40 sw can’t even get close to 10mm for underwood sorry your missing out on the best round ever made get you a Dan Wesson specialist and u will throw your plastic guns away .
If you are going to fire a truly hi-powered 10MM round such as an Underwood or a Buffalo Bore, The Sig P-220 is the way to go. I've had 10MM's since they first came out and have bought and sold many, even the Delta Elite cannot compete with the Sig P-220. When it comes to Glocks, they are a joke in any caliber but especially a 10MM. For the life of me I cant understand what all the hoopla is over a Glock, other than they are cheap to buy.
