Correct Shooting Stance for balancing speed and accuracy 

Current Soldier here! I went through BCT in 2019 and was actually taught this stance. Got back to my unit and most of my NCOs knew and shot with this stance. It seems that the Army is sloooowly moving over to it

My grandpa, a Korean war infantryman, taught me to shoot more or less like this when I was a teenager. When I joined the Army, they actively un-taught me that. Their reasoning was that your body armor works best when it's straight-on, which sounds like the kind of thing an E5 makes up on the spot when a soldier asks them something they don't know and doesn't want to sound like he doesn't know either.

I have been teaching Filipino martial arts for over 20 years, and I'm an infantry vet with 2 deployments to Iraq. So I've been the victim of the ARMY's shooting stance. When I got out I started using my "martial arts" type stance for shooting because, in my mind, a good fighting stance kind of transcends the type of fighting. I then found that I was moving more naturally without any ill affect to my marksmanship. I also noticed a huge difference in my lower back pain. I said all that to say this. It's kinda nice to have an expert validate that my crazy idea makes some sense. Lol

In the Marines, I learned to shoot the M-16A2 service rifle (2002), standing, at 100 yards, in a very peculiar "competition" stance where the shooter is completely bladed with the target. After boot camp, I joined the Fleet and learned to shoot standing completely squared with the target (2003). The idea was to maximize your plates to the threat. I never liked this stance and always ended up "dropping a leg" back, despite my NCOs and SNCOs "correcting" me. "You're going to get shot in the sides and die!" (We didn't have side SAPIs back then) After multiple deployments to Iraq, shooting mostly in this stance, I then went back to qual on the range and couldn't hit the barn side of a broad at 100 yards in this squared stance. Ultimately, I ended up finding a comfortable "fighting stance," which is what is taught today. I'm always happy to get this vindication lol. Cheers.

I've been saying this for decades. When I was a kid a USMC instructor taught me to shoot exactly like this. Your stance should be the same for rifle, pistol or throwing a punch. I've been through law enforcement and Army training that says the same old "feet apart, lean forward, stick your butt out, square your body armor to the threat" thing. They always tell me I'm wrong and I "won't qualify/pass the class" if I do it my way. I've always qualified Expert with rifle and pistol doing it my way, using the "boxer/fighter" style your showing here. Plus this is what everyone reverts to when they start moving and shooting instead of just standing there on the X.

Great stuff! The 'Army' shooting position never was comfortable for me and didn't feel natural at all. Many of the soldiers that served with felt the same way. I'm glad to see someone debunk that.

I was also taught this army stance during my conscription time. I couldn't bare to use it when having such a huge recoil and kickback every time you fire the rifle. I used to do Muay Thai and I also was super used to my fighting stance and I still kept using it as it was so much more comfortable.

Using a more natural fighting stance also makes it easier to move or even sprint. If you're standing still you're bleeding out... Motionless operators ventilate easily, M.O.V.E!

I was taught the standard Army "squared-to-target" stance. We were told to keep our plate towards the enemy. I participated in a CMP qualification with a M1. Of course, I resorted to my Army training and learned very quickly just how unstable the "squared-off" position really is. You certainly don't notice it when using a M4/556....but when it's a M1/30-06, the instability is very noticeable!

I’m glad you bring this up. I took martial arts for a few years. When I got into rifle shooting I naturally adopted something like the classic fighting stance, facing diagonally, strong foot back and it felt comfortable. I also saw good performance with it so I never learned the weird forward lean that I saw some others use.

We would do up drills for what seemed like hours!!! I was never taught the fighting stance until we where about to go to Baghdad in 07 when they had some guys from 10th group come and run us through room clearing and weapons manipulations drills!!! That was probably the best training I received in the 7 years I was in!!!

🤯 today years old …. Doesn’t bother me that I’ve been shooting like this for years thanks to the Army. It’s the 100’s of soldiers I’ve instructed. Seeing the breakdown of the positions it makes so much sense now. Definitely will share this video. Thank you sir.

The Marine Corps currently teaches a sort of in-between, where your feet are not parallel but your left foot (as a right handed shooter) is not super far forward, and you're square.

Bringing in your son, and having him take up his regular MMA stance was a great way of demonstrating this. When I was younger, I took Tae Kwon Do, and only after seeing this video do I realize that I take up the same stance I did back then when out shooting a rifle. Dominant foot back and at about a 45 degree angle, front foot facing forward, my chest parallel with my waist, left hand out front extended out, right hand back by my chest. I ain't ever realized it was the same stance I do now when I go out shooting. It makes me think, because another stance we practiced a lot was similar to what the Army does, where our feet were parallel and about even with our shoulders, and our back was straight up. Next time I'm out I might try that out, and see what its like. In any case, real interesting video!

I agree 100%! I don't have a military background, but I had an instructor advise me to shoot with the extreme forward lean and feet squared and spaced evenly apart. But I never could adjust to the feeling that something, anything unexpected... could happen and I could lose my balance far too easily. While I appreciated his advice, I went back to doing it my way once I was on my own again. It just doesn't feel natural to me. Your way... offers increased stability, but it also presents a slightly smaller target to the enemy as well! Thanks!

Glad I found this channel. You are definitely part of a hand full of you tubers that are offering real world, logical information. Thank you for sharing.

Excellent video Jeff. Thanks for sharing your experience

Not a soldier but always thought this was the go-to fighting and shooting stance. Have now been fully converted. Awesome video and content!

My company does training with National Guard troops. I noticed this issue when we did our first foreign weapons familiarization class. Odd that a civilian training company has to teach basics like shooting stance.

We definitely came a long way when the Weaver stance and push pull grip method. Great content, I cant wait till next year and you expand out into training. Thanks

Stance matters

Very informative video, thank you. When I joined the black boot army rocking the lbv and pistol belt the weaver/fighting stance was being taught. Then when plate carriers started getting issued down range the modified stance was adopted to present more surface area to the enemy in cqb but it felt un-natural.

This really is one of the best channels on the internet. Thank you for your videos

Really enjoy your videos Sir! Keep up the great work!

Natural point of aim! Taught to me by USMC. Works just fine. Stance is literally just like what your demo shows.

I love how this is becoming standard now. Works way better under nods, and helps you present a larger body armor area to the threat as well

I found this out a couple years ago and it absolutely changed my shooting capabilities

Another great video, breaking the paradigm. And your son is a bad ass. Good stuff gentlemen

Thank you very much!!

Great vid. Very informative and illustrative.

I will try this out thank you 🙏

Love this video. Your videos are awesome.

In the 90’s the us army infantry taught to have non firing foot forward knees bent shoulders over hips shoulders either squared or bladed. Non firing hand your index finger was pointed at target, and thumb was on side of hand guard, not over top. Even up till I got out in 07 that was the stance I taught. After I got out is when the whole plate forward butt down squared to target stuff started. I never understood that stance at all. Never understood the nose to the charging handle either.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for years! The 'full diaper' stance is great for standing still and absorbing recoil on the range, but standing still in the field is the best way to take a long dirt nap. Optimising mobility and being able to seamlessly halt and move without altering stance is the way to win gunfights, in my opinion.

Good stuff. Thanks!

I’ve been a shooter since I was old enough to hold a BB gun and then a deer rifle. I’ve also practiced martial arts since my teens. I’ve been taking flak from the “turtles” ever since their stance became popular. It’s great to see that you’ve had the fortitude and the common sense to resist being infected by their illness. 🐢🐢🐢

Great video. The video was simple and clarified the misconception.

Love this channel keep it up!!

Thanks for this video. Also thanks for the link to your article in SWAT. Exploring some details a bit more, like squaring the shoulders vs. blading, is helpful (squaring the shoulders to support the butt stock verses twisting a bit (blading) in response to natural physical dynamics is something I am still sorting out).

Thank you, sir.

This is exactly how Kyle Lamb promotes the fighting shooting stance in his book, "Green Eyes Black Rifles." His reasoning (the "why" of the stance) matches Jeff's explanation here. Good video. Thanks.

I just used my boxing stance and it's worked very well.

Thank you!

Jeff, I’m an armed police officer in the UK (there aren’t many of us) and I have recently adopted the stance taught by you in this video to great success. I’ve certainly not struggled in the past, being a bit of a “gun guy”, but I’m always on the lookout for ways to improve. I’ve certainly taken your word on wholeheartedly and have been teaching it to my colleagues with great enthusiasm!

This is MINDBLOWING yet makes complete sense; i was in the Army for 6yrs so i have that bad stance. But i trained Muay Thai for 10yrs, i never thought to stand like a fighter with my AR15. Im definitely gonna try this.

I'm not sure about other MOS training but as an 11B we were taught too use a fighter stance. We were also taught by a bunch of former group guys in how to do this. I just wanted to clear that up.

Good reason, I'll incorporate it.

I enjoyed the great video.^^ Can you also explain the kneeling posture?

Your sons a bad ass just like his dad that's awesome.

Always wonder why soldiers stood that way when shooting, didn't seem all that stable to me. When I got my gun license and started shooting, I tried emulating the same stance and got the worst accuracy out it when shooting my heavier caliber firearms. Now I stand and shoot the same way I stand when doing archery, which is essentially the same as the fighting stance your son so adeptly demonstrated. Weird how something like this got taught in the first place to recruits...

Great demonstration on a better stance. I’m assuming your a “cross dominant” shooter? (Left handed rifle and right handed pistol.) I’m also cross dominant, so I had to learn rifle shooting from the left shoulder to keep both eyes open on ACOGs or red dots. Does require more footwork when transitioning from rifle to pistol.

I also train mma, and one of the first things I did when I started to learn how shoot better was immediately mimic my boxing/ muy Thai stance without even thinking

Yep!

I've had this same discussion with a well known instructor about this. I've been doing martial arts for about 30+ years, as well as being an avid shooter since my days at Ft Benning, and he swears that the new-fangled isosceles is more stable and mobile. I don't see it and have used a stance like this for years. I even pointed that out, since he himself is a martial artist, that you don't fight in "horse stance", so why would you shoot in that stance.

Awesome video, just watched a video from my boy Tu Lam today on the same subject

I've wrestled with this for years; I do roll my shoulder slightly forward but hold my feet about 30 degrees to firing side unless I'm moving, in which case my feet point forward naturally. I think this over-rolling and forward c-grip is only useful moving forward through a funnel, but it gets taught and practiced as a static stance at the range.

That was a special forces reload on that pistol if I’ve ever seen one! Love the channel!

Good video

You know what you do what you feels is good and comfortable for you. In the battlefield you have no time to think about you stance. If you can fire and hit your enemy that matter..

i fenced in college, i understand, thank you sir.

The reason for Big Army's stance is due to body armor and placing the face of the plate directly toward the target which will most likely be firing back. Everything in life is a balance and Big Army was trying to balance putting rounds on target and reducing casualties while maintaining the ability to move quickly. Sure, there are better stances for accurate fire just like there are better stances than yours for being able to move quickly.

I have the same stance. Just naturally developed that way over time. Also I started shooting really obnoxious things full auto so my staggered leg spacing became more prominent

Good💪

The Army shooting stance is briefed purely because it ensures that your plate is squared forward. It doesn’t have anything to do with balance or absorbing recoil. Now, having seen this video, I will try to change to this style and see it feels.

Nice.

The reason the army squares their stance is they think this will align the body or not to provide more coverage against an enemy directly in front of the shooter. Not sure if it really does or if it’s significant.

I was taught the army stance in Finland. But I got the feeling from the instructors that the stance is a compromise. A sacrifice of accuracy for protection. The other stance we were taught as "old one, don't use it unless you know you're not going to get shot at" was completely sideways. And it was amazing for accuracy, but it's easy to see the point they were making: If shot from the direction you were shooting towards to, the plates would do absolutely nothing to protect you. Yours seems like a combination of both. Trying to keep the plates faced at the danger while getting that good stance.

I know this is an older video, I can say I have training scars as an 11B…we were told it’s purpose was to present maximum plates to the enemy. But what you said makes way more sense. I guess SF is the only way to Army lol. (I went to BCT in 2003) so this goes way back.

The interesting thing is that the depiction of standing in TC 3-22.9 shows a similar fighting stance with the firing side foot behind and not standing with the feet parallel. The description just says "shoulder width apart," though.

From a similar background to yourself Jeff. I didn't do MMA but did fencing as my unit sport (also a qualified fencing instructor). Interestingly, this is exactly the stance in fencing, particularly sabre. Balance is crucial, as you are finely manipulating the weapon on the one hand whilst keeping a balanced stance. This stance is also useful for sudden movements forwards or backwards. This can have advantages in CQB too if there is an opportunity or need to take cover? Needless to say I use this stance in combat shooting too.

I was taught that position primarily to be able to present my body armour to the potential threat. I had a video of my last shoot at an indoor range analyzed and the comment was made....."You're ex mil eh?" Point taken.

Good video and explanation. I see you shoot the rifle with your left and the hand gun with your right. What is the reason? In my case I am left eye dominant yet my stance does not change, just my dominant eye as I look down the sights.

That's the way I was taught in the Army. Shooting leg slightly forward. Square your body. Bend your knees.

The isoscles or combat stance was not meant to keep recoil down, it was for better accuracy, but any version of the weaver stance, has always been a more stable platform and the forward aggressive lean has always worked for me.

They teach that same stance in the Marines too. I’ve always thought that the stance seemed kind of weird and the thought of relying more on the weight of your sapi plates for recoil absorption than your actual footing was even more weird lol.

I agree totally with what you say (and I can't believe the US Army is teaching its soldiers that firing stance LOL) but there is one thing I don't agree with. The learning forward aspect. That DOES need to be done. Maybe not to the extent that the US Army is teaching it but you do have to push against the rifle as they say to better manage its recoil. Staying straight up is also not going to help you manage the recoil.

Well.... great... I've been fucked up for 11 years... Guess it's better to learn late than not at all :P

Well the even feet stance was first used so that you don’t get a bullet pass through your side. The stance he recommended is the older stance we used with chicken wing hanging out. The way you recommend you could get shot in your side and have through and through which is very hard to survive. The even foot present most of your armor so that doesn’t happen.

In some situations you have to shoot while being 'tall' (right above a chest high wall for example). For such requirements, having your legs right under the pelvis (max length), the weapon presented at shoulder high, and the torso slightly bent forward, works and works ok with minimal effort from a walking forward situation. One could advocate for a twisted upper body and a 'right angle'/70° feet opening ('Weaver' general stance), maybe. Some will say there is no point in doing anything different than minimal postural change from basic positions/actions, since 'good combat shooting' in a lasting firefight = being close to the ground and/or cover plus if possible supporting the rifle/arms with/on something anyway.. (quick reaction shooting often means you're being ambushed and THEY are delivering aimed accurate shots..). In some situations you HAVE to shoot with narrow-tucked legs/the smallest 'footprint' (advancing in a ditch, walking on planks, etc). If you never trained for rapid fire 'recoil managmt' with the smallest footprint & only a good use of being firmly 'behind the recoil' + actively putting a bit of weight by simply leaning a bit forward into the aiming/firing vector, you will fail. [with a big backpack, the simplest way of 'returning fire for a few seconds before cover/prone/one knee/drop the pack and run' = gun up, bend forward a bit/keep the 'tired backpacker bend', shooting. some say it works]

In 2007 I was taught to stand the Army way. Because you want the plate to be straight towards the enemy. If you're standing sideways, your open. I was a Cav Scout

I was a Marine grunt, and from what I understand is that squaring up to an adversary presents more of the front armor plate, and obscures the femoral arteries.

Wat up stukus! 87 beans 9mm.

I always seen that the way you held the barrel is somewhat popular among competitive shooters and even sf operators. I wonder who invented it or popularized it because I keep looking and I cant find anything related on it. Back then the barrel of a rifle was always held by the bottom but now its thumb on upper part of the barrel.

I wonder about the straight up stance. I wonder how effective it is in a gunfight where there is shooting to moving, moving to shooting and moving while shooting. I study the movements of competitive handgun shooters, wrestlers, linebackers in American football and other dynamic sports where the person has to be ready to move in any direction with a split second decision to do so. I wonder how comparable using martial arts where some of the stance is to be ready to kick. I have studied human movement and coached sports for over 25 years and have been a competitive athlete for over 40. I am at the range about every 2 weeks and have taken training classes and competed. It would be interesting to study the straight up method vs the bent over method further in various contexts in which I have experimented with myself. It would be interesting to take an MMA fighter and do force on force with Simunitions or airsoft and see how they move and compare that with the performance of a bent over gunfighter. That being said it has been universally accepted that the tactical turtle is not recommended.

I was never taught the squared to the front as a good shooting technigue, it was taught as a safety stance to square your plates to yhe target, which makes some sence in a cqb enviroment. But usually not.

It reminds me shooting isosceles. I like shooting isosceles with pistols but definitely not with long guns.

Really god When I was a policeman we were thaught like you show Im from Slowenia So I agree with you

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When we were trained in MCMAP the fighting stance is the one you are telling us is the better one but then we were told to shoot the other way. I made the comment the stance of fighting shouldn't change.

Just got bashed online bc I was shooting with the Army stance, it works well for me though I lean pretty aggressively forward, looking to change my stance now 😂

Shoot move communicate

Taught the same way in the marine corps never liked it always got yelled at for not doing it great video though keep it up

Lefty power💪

The army doesn't even teach you how to do push ups correctly. You just have to learn along the way.

Squaring feet up makes full auto recoil suck… granted most of us aren’t lucky enough to have ever experienced that problem The only time I square up for shooting is on the basketball court

would you lean back when you're using a higher recoil rifle or perhaps when shooting automatically?

I agree I'm 6'1 and 170 lb if I don't blade out in a good fighting stance 9 mm tries to push me over LOL

So essentially a boxing stance.

I went to OSUT in 2020 and was taught the 90's swat stance. Thank God I had the sense not to listen to that.

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