Last chance to pick up the 400k Merch before we unlist it and go balls deep in Christmas : www.majorkill.shop/ Go balls deep in something else here : www.patreon.com/majorkill
Hey Majorkill. Would you please make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, The Ecclesiarchy, Commander Shadowsun, and the High Lords of Terra? Thank you.
A large portion of the Imperial Fists were supposed to be with the Loyalists on Istvaan V, but they got marooned by a warpstorm. Realistically, the Dropsite Massacre was the the result of Horus doing an excellent job of drawing out legions who could be beaten quickly, while other legions were kept away. His strategy was excellent - he won the battle before it even took place. If different legions were sent, Horus's strategy would have failed and he'd have probably fought differently.
Absolutely. There had been a large effort by Horus to ensure certain legions were unavailable and he likely would not have revealed himself if he could not ensure that the legions sent to censure him were the ones he wanted.
Exactly. And those 3 would have been disaporportionate in use had they been left alone: Raven Guard can out ambush Nightlords and stymie Alpha Legion hijinks. Nipping at Horus' entire logistics train required for Terra: Invaluable scouts for the White Scars and acting as assault troops when needed to free the Khan's forces for rapid re-deployment. The Salamanders and Iron Hands represent the 2nd and 3rd toughest individuals after the Death Guard, respectively. The Salamanders with their preference for warcrime armaments acting as short-ranged support would have been a massive buff to the Blood Angels favoured warfare. There smiting skills would assist the Iron Hands in all other endeavors. The Iron Hands have the means to repair machinery along with the battlements at the Imperial Fists' direction - never mind granting the loyalists a fully functional version of "heresy pattern" armor. Honestly, these tiny Legions were more important to destroy in the long term than the Ultramines Legion as they offered more for the siege than just numbers and logistics.
@@obamaprism4168 I had a typo, and it was Big E. The 2 were Magnus when he thought Big E was having his chapter killed off for him sending a warning, and the other was Horus himself. He saw the future where E is a god. And to be frank, that may have always been his plan, or the God Emperor may have manipulated things to go that way, resulting in it's own creation, against Big E's plans.
The Blood Angels at Isstavsn would just be an entire Legion of Doomguy when Rip and Tear kicks in. Sanguinius would have defeated Horus, he was actually afraid of him.
This is one of your best lore videos for the past 21/2 years. I always appreciate your sense of humor I don’t know what that says about me. I’m 70yrs old and have only been reading 40K books for the past 2yrs. I have always had the opinion that humor shows intelligence. Anyway, Happy Holidays. Peace
As we're shown in Lorgar's vision when he turned to chaos, anything that gets Rowboat out of Utramar leads to an overall decisive Imperial victory since you don't have Imperium Secundus eating up half the loyal legions.
@@dmasta200184595 Roboute was tricked into fortifying the crap out of Ultramar because he didn't know whether or not the Emperor was alive or not and decided that the safest thing to do was to hunker down and at the very least preserve the ideals of the Imperium. He was later joined by Lion El Johnson and Sanguinius and their respective legions. If they had bumrushed Horus from the very start the siege would have never happened and the Emperor would have never been crippled.
Phalanx is said to be able to take on multiple naval fleets at once and win handily, I doubt that the traitor fleets would survive the meeting with Phalanx and the rest of the Imperial Fist fleet.
@@dramsac17 unfortunately no, mersadie osidon accidently summoned a metric shit ton of Daemons onto the ship which caused massive internal damage, which did end up saving the traitor fleets. Dorn originally planned to use Phalanx to destroy the traitor fleets the moment they reached Mars, their fleets wouldn't have been able to get through Phalanx.
sanguinius was such a cheat code. He alone basically rips every other primarch limb from limb unless they are the sock puppet of chaos and even then he only loses when he's been fighting for a week without rest and been smashed by multiple god tier enemies
There's also a chance that Ferrus, being who he is after Fulgrim's betrayal, would go to Isstvan V no matter what, perhaps arriving in time to catch the Traitor's fleets between his Legion and the Loyalists and making sure none escaped. Just a thought though. Would require the Emperor himself overriding Horus' orders to the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Ultramarines I would think. Or giving Dorn the power to do so.
I feel that the Khan, Johnson, and even Roboute would have been a bit suspicious at having the Fucking Night Lords as backup. I agree with your assessment. Chaos in heaps of trouble.
@@ericcadman1329 facts, but I really liked the aspect of the lost primarchs being there and fleshed out, the emperor being a WAY better dad and the whole scene of the emperor telling chaos to Run like bitches was straight fire. Too bad it was never fully completed
If they had been sensible and waited in orbit for the 2nd wave, they would have discovered the treachery in space and stood a better chance. then they could have annihilated the traitor armada BEFORE orbitally dropping to the surface.
Majorkill have you thought of doing some lore on Starship Troopers the book? I think the Drop Pods there and especially the Power Armour (it's where the whole idea came from) are especially interesting.
I don't think it's feasible for any other loyalists legions to "win". I definitely think the RG shouldn't have been there, as they were notoriously bad in frontal assaults. But even the DA, BA, and UM wouldn't have been able to win. I think we forget that as much tactical badasses the Lion, Guilliman, or Dorn were, Horus was also a genius and had amble time to prepare. And as Warmaster, he probably would've have some idea of the weaponry the DA could bring to the table. Horus would've adapted his plans to account. Secondly, not only is Perturabo a hard counter to Dorn and also a tactical & logistic genius, but the IF wouldn't have had time to erect these crazy defenses against the second wave of trators. Dorn was notoriously incredulous when the traitor ruse was uncovered, and i think Pert would capitalize. Perturabo also hid his deception from the Lion in obtaining the WMD he used against Vulkan, so you can't assume the Lion would see through his ruse this time. So it would be DA nukes against IW nukes, with only one side being initially prepared to use them on the other. Third, the UM would do well due to their structure, but they would get hit hard by the WB due to those demons and Chaos being a novel thing at that point.
nah, if it is too risky, Horus will surely try to do anything to keep Angron in Orbit or if that fail..... nuke Angron and World eater along with loyalist instead of bring it to ground fight
To be fair, Ferrus Manus charged head on because he firmly believed that numerous reinforcements would arrive and crush the traitor legions. Maybe he speculated that the Emperor's Children would retreat and Fulgrim will run like a coward if the reinforcements arrived, so he went ahead for the chance to slay Fulgrim but it turns out this was a fatal mistake.
Why's seemingly everyone covering this lately? Has there been a new book? Commemorative artwork? What am I missing? . . . . Can we please get a video on pre-unification faction of old earth?
Interesting fantasy scenario, but it disregards a lot of pros of betrayal-legions: - Morty and his boyz leaving battlefield (out-of-character for this bunch); - Emperor children fortifying the shit out of Istvan 5 for weeks if not months (almost no casualties from orbital bombardment to soften them); - No warp-spaghetti in case of betrayer starting to lose the battle (which would be quite strange); - No Alpha-legion shenanigans as they would be well-prepared to face not those Leroy-type of enemies but a real threat this time around (even if you put aside Lion and his bunch Blood Angels and Ultramarines would 100% have some spy-guys amidst their rank); - Primarch duels going super by-the-book, again with Chaos having an easy option of boosting all their “Big Guys” with some warp-juice as they start to lose (as they actually did with Fulgrim and Angron) - even Lion or Sanguinius won’t pull it off if he’s gonna get triple-teamed by Primarchs on warp-cool-aid. I’m 100% sure that these 3 legions would have done A LOT better then original trio, but I’m also quite sure that their opponents would still get the W. They would survive and probably be able to regroup and leave the planet, but it’s nearly impossible to see even these guys winning in such a situation. Not to mention that it’s hard to imagine how this scenario would unravel in later parts of the campaign: - Destroyed Ultramar? - No Blood Angel berserk rage at Siege of Terra? - No hard time-limit for betrayal legions (as no-one in hard pursuit on them) so there would be no point to rush the siege and duel the Emperor? - Earlier corrupt for all the Primarch in case of them almost losing those duel on Istvan and accepting Chaos a lot earlier? Double-edge sword here as they could both get totally wasted a lot more earlier or arrive at Terra more accustomed with their newly-gained powers… P.S. In the end, too many options and variables for any real conclusion. The only thing I’m certain off: Majorkill again FAN-BOYING over he’s Dark Angels :3
Good to see you! I love your videos and enjoy listening to them, I've learned so much about lore and worldbuilding thanks to you and your videos. Thank you for all you're doing :)
Id say its impossible for the loyalists to win but in such a case both forces would bleed out, this would allow the white scars, raven guard and iron hands to hunt down the remaining traitors and the galaxy would be left with way less primarchs but with several nearly full legions and a large part of the galaxy undamaged which would mean an imperium that would be able to easily thwart the beast and lead to a much more powerful empire in 40k
And just think if the loyalists held on long enough to call for aid. And just imagine absolutely PISSED space wolves and iron hands doggying already hurt traitor reinforcements
Any combination of Gulliman and his "Dauntless Few" (UM, BA, IH, IF)would have done more damage and killed atleast one traitor primarch. If the Iron Hands had the Blood Angel's and the Ultramarines behind them, it would have been the "Battle of the Dropsight" instead of the "Dropsight Massacre".
Being into Lore sucks sometimes. I get why the Salamanders were manhandled. The setting really gives them nothing. They are one of the only Legions that do not get their primarchs' gifts (no super strength which sucks and no perpetuals which I'm ok with), but then on top of that gets a nerf (slowest reaction speed which makes no sense). But Vulkan soloed a planet full of orks. Orks juiced up by one of the biggest waaghs ever seen. Sure, he was killed. But he got right back up and killed them right back. The dude got up from an Imperial Nuclear missile. The same kind used to destroy large land masses. How do you "knock out" someone like that?
Would you says that giving up on Terra and the Emperor and focusing on building the Imperium Secondus with 3 Primarch surviving the Heresy and the Pharos replacing the Astronomican could end up with an Imperium Secondus stronger than the current timeline Imperium?
I'm going with 20th Legion still but Omegon over traitor Alpharius as literally nobody would know who was friend or for if Alpha Legion was in the mix, they could all be Omegon
Hmmm.. I wouldn't say the traitor legions had no losses at Istvaan 5. They attacked the dug in loyalist Space Marines quite a lot of times, and got wiped out every time. They used quite a lot of forces to do so too. Probably their first step towards defeat. But, I'm quite unsure if they could've recruited those numbers or how those things worked in 30k. Edit: No sorry, that was the dropsite massacre. I think. So many Istvaan.
I know you mentioned the Lion fighting Fulgrim but this put the amusing image of Fulgrim trying to duel Sanguinius in my head since Fulgrim is all about proving he’s perfection incarnate.
Along with their attitude being similar to the iron hands the wolves would also not react well to the betrayal since being a cowardly traitor is dishonourable and with the world eaters on the world the wolves world mostly likely engage the WE to the last man The wolves would strike a very heavy blow to the traitors at the loss of the legion on the level of the iron cage if not completely destroyed due to the wolves refusing to retreat
If they send anybody else they might win Istvan but they would likely lose the war as a whole. Who loses and how they lose is directly responsible for the warning getting back to Terra.
I think Perturabo would have pulled out. He was barely a traitor to begin with. He would have tried to save face. I'm a Perturabo fan boy though, so idk.
I think the best way for the Loyalists to have won is to use a weapon (preferably a grenade) that channeled the excess light of the Astronomicon and The Emperor.
And the Empire of Mankind spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Terra towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
This is still a pretty good outcome if Guilliman/ the 3 good boiz die but the traitors lose. The imperium still has the big E plus 5 to 7 primarchs, russ, vulkan, dorn, khan, corvus, possibly the lion and sanguinius (And alpharius.... who is actually omegon... who is actually..)
Wish those shirts didn't come out at a time when I was spending big on my kids for Xmas. As a cancer fighter I don't have a lot to begin with. Those shirts are noice
I don't really agree with your plan. The legions are fine, but there's a weakness in the traitor legions that you didn't identify. Neither the Alpha Legion nor the Night Lords are geared for a standup fight. A combination of the Ultramarines' 22nd and 4th chapters would have folded the Alpha Legion and opened up the traitor reinforcements' lines like a can opener. Either the Blood Angels or Dark Angels would have been sufficient to hold the line against the original defenders, particularly with orbital fire support, and the uncommitted loyalist legion could have acted as a reserve force to keep things going. It would have sucked for the loyalists, but they would have won and the traitors would have been wiped out.
Sanguinius and the Blood Angels would be just too broken to be used in this situation. While the Wolfs were very good in Astarte to Astarte combat, the Blood Angels are described to be vicious in combat, sometimes accidentally tearing through even ally Astarte forces. While the might of Sanguinius is sometimes leagues above the rest of the Primarchs. Being incredibly fast, while flying, using his spear with a speed that makes it look more like a whip than a spear. At this stage however, he still lost to Kabanda, so the traitors and their Primarchs had better chances.
@@SirEggo2412 Don't even. Sanguinus, his legion, and other defenders fought down traitor legions at the Gate Of Eternity, while he was going on relief missions, giving aid, speeches, and than defeated those foes. After all that he teleported onto the ship, to defeat Horus. The guy was OP. Very OP.
@@Kareszkoma I love it it’s a great scene for angrons character because he realizes what he is and doesn’t want to go back so he doesn’t have to experience life without the nail
is this matt ward or Majorkill? xD I don't think the Ultramarines could hold off against 4 legions, especially the iron warriors who are excellent at digging out forces that are defending. and while the blood angels and Dark angels are strong, but in a 2v4 sure they would have done damage and taken maybe 2 or more legions out, but they would be wiped. what I think would happen is that the fight would have been much tougher and a lot more of the traitor legions would have suffered. but the 3 legions would decimated, but the raven guard would be in tip top shape and would be able to preform hit and run raids on lots of targets, I think this would make it supremely hard for the traitors and I don't think they would even make it to Terrra, would likely retreat to the eye, Horus and the Emps still alive and regrouping there forces, likely making the future conflicts way more volatile. would be a full on civil war still happening till the 40k, maybe no tyrranids aswell? but if the war dragged on with *Emperor still alive maybe a weapon would have been created that gave them a beacon still. would love to think of all the lost tech they would have had, still been legion conflicts, malcador and Emperor having to dig up horrible weapons to fight chaos and his sons, maybe a march right into the eye to put a top to this.
At this point I kind of dislike how all of the Istvaan campaign played out, especially the Dropsite Massacre. It's unnecessarily contrived and stupid. It seemingly exists only to hand the Loyalist side a massive L to make Horus an actual threat to Terra. There are so many ways this could have gone entirely different. What if different legions had been sent, or a big Custodes strike force? What if the Emperor or Malcador actually did a Loyalty check on all his still "loyal" sons once Horus rebelled. Why was anyone trusting these incredibly sus legions. And why did the Raven Guard of all Legions go in with the first wave? They are guerilla experts, not siege masters
I disagree with your assessment of the White Scars' chances. The nature of the terrain on Istvan as I read the description of in the HH novels favors the exact sort of mobile warfare the White Scars are known for.
I don't think this is the best combo. The ultras, BA and DA tried working together in Imperium secondus. The lion doesn't play well with others. He would charge in to face Horus the way Ferrus did with Fulgrim. You have over rated the Lions strategic ability and under played the Wolves. The best combo in my opinion is the ultras for the numbers, Wolves for strategic aggression and the 1000 sons (they were still loyal at that point) for there physic abilities would have been invaluable when the other 4 legions attacked
I still think that an Istvan fight between Horus and Sanguinius wouldn’t be as one sided as depicted here. I know Majorkill said it would be tough but confident Angel win, but I’m not sure who wins at all. Ok comparing the scenario here with Sanguinius and Horus’ cannon fight. Cannon: Sanguinius is exhausted and Horus is on Chaos roids. Istvan: Sanguinius is winded at worst and Horus is unroided At first this seems like an obvious feathery win, but then take a look at how the cannon fight ended. Sanguinius gets fucking decimated utterly, and Horus walks away with only a SINGLE noticeable hit (not sure if it was a wound or if it just made a chink in Horus’ armor) This means that the power levels are much different in this fight but the gap in outcome was already so large that I’m not sure it’s enough. I think Sang can definitely win, but I also think that Horus’ chances are just as good. He was a top tier Primarch in every category besides hairline for a reason
@@Pemmont107 I mean, as far as I know the Ultramarines have been dialed back as well. I don't mind them winning, I'm just bothered if they always manage without notable help - hence I love Dante and Szarekh fight against the Tyranids together
@Mac Shadow but if the ultramarines are destroyed we will never see the rise of Kato Sicarius, the main character of the Ultramarines! They have to have plot armour!
The Loyalist Legions had to suffer The Worf Effect in order to show how ruthless, dangerous and cruel the Traitor Legions have become in the early stages of the Horus Heresy.
@@omega5179because money and secondly because chaos United is still chaos. Chaos is chaos. Meaning there is no meaning or order to it. All the chaos gods would be scheming. No doubt Angron would try turning on Tzeentch or even Fulgrim as is Khornes way. Nurgle would probably send off Mortarion off to hunt Eldar to try and stop them getting cures from Isha. Fulgrim would just attack anybody. The only ones that would make it out of there with any sense would be Horus, Konrad, Lorgar and Perturabo. But even then we forget that Lehman would absolutely have killed Lorgar meaning that a lot of the chaos worship would cease. Dorn would have cut down or obliterated the world eaters to a man. The lion would still kill Konrad or even Horus. Corax would probably try hunt down Fulgrim if not Mortarion. That’s if Istvaan IV never happened. If the heresy was noticed before all that fuck me the traitors would be so fucked even the chaos gods would have to reassess going after humanity like that. The loyalists would be too strong. With Vulcan pumping out god tier weaponry, Dorn making sure every world was well defended, Guilliman backing up every legion with about 10-20k of his own troops, Sanguinius bringing the shock and awe down on everyone, Iron hands beating every siege down, Jaghatai striking hard and fast at retreating/reinforcing forces, Corax playing hide and seek picking them off one by one. Dark angels being dark angels & Lehman being kept back in case anyone gets through. The traitor legions would be hunted down to a man in under 20 years.
It was also a massive sacrifice. A word bearer explained that brotherly betrayals had the greatest effect on the warp to an ultramarine, just before he shot him in the chest.
He already sort of covered that here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mVm7st6wQP4.html But if you want to read my ramblings: 1. Horus should keep Lorgar on his side 2. Not allow Alpharius to charge at Dorn, as the latter killing the former took the Alpha Legion out of the siege. 3. Show some apreciation towards Perturablo, as treating him like shit was the main reason he rage quitted the siege of terra. 4. Use Lorgar to control Fulgrim (since Fulgrim was now a daemon and knowing his true name granted some control over him, Lorgar knew Fulgrim's true name) 5. Better use of Angron (who was a rampaging daemon by the time of the siege) by deploying him either at the front line to soak damage and maybe breach the main defenses or throw him at the Blood Angels after the death of Sanguinius (which triggered the Black Rage on every BAngel) 6. Do not allow Kerbor Hal to unleash the scrap code from the vaults, as that screwed up the forges of mars, which were largely under traitor control. Still, as Majorkill pointed out, even if they killed the Emperor they would have been wiped out by the incoming Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels.
@@kurkilles For example? Trying to convince Jaghatai himself, they were much closer to each other. Second, use Burning of Prospero to further degree. Take his forces and bring Exterminatus on the planet when its defensive systems were destroyed. He would wipe out Leman, Space Wolfs and Constantine in one move. Death of Magnus would also be beneficial, becasue without his help Salamanders would not make it trough the warp storm and die with their Primarch. The last thing would be a better treatment of Perturabo, the last sane Primarch on his side.
The Lion: "Who are we ?" Dark Angels: "The necessary evil !" The Lion: "Why are we necessary ?" Dark Angels: "To rid the galaxy of corruption worse than man !" The Lion: "And why are we the Emperor's chosen few, ordained by Him to undertake this holy task ?" Dark Angels: "Because no one else can !" The Lion: "AND BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING FUN !!"
Loyalist: "well bolter rounds won't do shit for dick against powerarmor this thick. How thick is this powerarmor? Well about half as thick as my dick. Which means you'll need AP bolter rounds to pierce it, and I don't even see a heavy bolter on your heretic ass" Heretic: *blows a space marine in half with AP round" Loyalist; "OH fuck, that's AP rounds. OH FUCK THATS AP ROUNDS"
This just goes to show how much of tactical genius Horus was, tailoring every engagement to ensure the utmost advantage for his forces. Truly he deserved the title of Warmaster
Honestly I doubt it was horus idea. He probably did spend more time with his brothers than anyone else but I'm sure whatever brought him back to life was it's idea
@@OmicronX-1999 Primarily because of in-fighting, if I recall correctly. If they all stuck together as a cohesive unit, they'd have dominated, but things basically fell apart once whole legions started to ditch the last fight
Still Sucks that the imperial fists couldn’t join the retribution fleet. Not a huge fists fan but the skills they brought would’ve been a massive boon as most of us know
@@FYAjibber000 I think it was a distraction so that the Dark Angels wouldn’t join up with the rest of the legions. Like imagine if Lion were there, the Dropsite Massacre would’ve been for the Traitors
I'm starting to think our favorite Lore-Master is ignoring that one guy who's commented every video for a while asking Major to theorize what would've happened if other primarchs woke up before Guilliman.
I'm not 100% sure of the timeline, but I think Magnus had yeeted into the Warp around that point, either that or the Wolves were knocking at Prospero's door and about to storm the planet.
pretty sure the counsel of nikea (cant spell that) was put in place so if the 1k sons were deployed and used there powers one of the other loyal legion might have gotten pissy
i would love to see a what if the heresy never happened, how would that effect everyone! would the necrons awakening be quickly clapped? Tyranids exterminautes so quick they decide not to come to the galaxy?
It's because of the heresy the pharos beacon stuff alerts the nids so I'd say it's a good chance they never come to our galaxy or it's much later in time to the point where it doesn't matter
I think it'd not be that clear cut. The Ultramarine wouldn't be there in their entirety as they would have left some garrison in Ultramar. The traitors had by that point, armor piercing bolters and tactics designed specifically to kill astartes. Not to mention that in the story thus far, no legion boast a bigger gun, maybe except for the Phalanx, than the Dies Irae. And if anything, the traitors goal will not be as to kill the legions but to hold them. Taunting the Fist to join the fray, and the 20th will take the cake. I think this is a fun event to theorize. Good job MajorQ
The best case senario would be: 1. Lion shows up 2. Lion commenses exterminatus 3. Profit 2nd best would be: Dark angels, Ultramarines/Imperial fists, Blood Angels like you said
Space marine capabilities Would be nice to know How strong are they how fast they are etc it’s very inconsistent Hope one day majorkill makes a video about it
Whatever the writer needs. Sometimes they move faster than the eye can see, sometimes slow. Sometimes 1 shot kills them Sometimes 100, Depends on the story and if they have a name or not.
I think the space wolves would have done fine. Maybe this is because of inconsistent writing. I also thought the wolves were savage yes, but in Lemans fight with Angron, he compromised Angron through tactics and had him surrounded by his wolves showing h the strength through tactics and team work.
why do you always cover your whole face on the "lets get into it"? Wouldnt it be logical to create a "hand tunnel" only on your mouth? Silly australians....
Yeah. I made a larger reply somewhere, but basically I can see these three actually managing to kill Horus. But there is no way they are winning the battle.
@@primary2630 What you fail to take into consideration is that 1,5 of those 3 are completely retarded and the dark angels and ultramarines are extremely large by a factor of 2 or 3. The ultramarines are 2-3 times bigger than the raven guard and salamanders, the dark angels about twice as large. I did the math with the numbers of the lexicanum and the traitors outnumber the loyalists somewhere like 2 to 1 which is not that much when you consider that they can coordinate much better since they dont have as many moving parts. Also, angron isnt that effective, since he charges in like a dumbass, lorgar is quite trash, corax was able to quite easely bust him. That and you have to remember that the other 4 come in way later. The traitors are already getting mauled by a force which outnumbers them by 2 to 1 also and like majorkill said, fulgrim is a pretty loose cannon so u only have 2 primarchs against 2 of the best fighters plus 1 extra thats an insane strategist. Battle isnt clearcut at all
@@primary2630 But it is not 3 to 1. It is 3 legions against eight, which already isnt 3 to 1 and the Loyalists have two of the three largest legions, while the traitors have only the second biggest. And four of the Traitor Legions are at about two thirds to half strenght already due to Istvaan III. So it is a lot closer to 2 to 1 than 3 to 1 which still makes for bad odds but a lot better
@@primary2630 In terms of numbers of astartes it's more like 2 to 1 as the loyalist legions in this hypothetical were some of the largest and the traitor legions were low on numbers after purging loyalists from their legions.
Looking the numbers in the Lexicanum, this looks quite right: The 8 traitor legions had around 750.000 marines - 1.050.000 total marines, minus their loyal members and loses at the first battle, lets say 25% (300.000) The Big Three legions, had a total of 570.000, not even a two-to-one disadvantage By comparison the Salamanders, Iron Hands and Raven Guard, had only 280.000
What about the traitor legions having ammo that pierced space marine armor like paper? That alone gave them a massive advantage, maybe too much to overcome regardless
He doesn't make 3 hour videos,you have other RU-vidrs for that.Or he would have to split it into parts and with his format they still wouldn't be expansive enough.
@@RAD1111able still listening to majorkill is just amazing compared to the other 40k channels he has that charisma... you could say he could be a horus clone
