supercarlin have a question that would be a cool vid. ok you know how tom used harrey's blood to be reborn. would that make him harry's half brother or child and would that make delphi his niece or grand daughter
What would happen to a ghost if their death was to create a horcux. So if voldamort kill someone to make a horcux and that person chose to come back as a ghost. How would that effect them??
Important question that goes unaddressed: How do they un-petrify Nearly Headless Nick? He's not physical, so the potion created from mandrake wouldn't have worked, and since we see him later in the series we know that he does get cured of petrification. So, how!?
Herpo the Foul created the first Horcrux, as well as bred the first basilisk. We don't know what happened to his Horcrux, so he could still be alive now.
@@Ranger1812 there's a theroy that the cursed necklace from the half blood prince is that said horcrux, it's not confirmed but it does share characteristics with other horcruxs in the series so that's suspicious right 🙄🤦♂️
for YEEAAARSSS this was my number one “question i’d ask jkr about the world.” Before pottermore I thought it was a ministry experiment to create an option for ghosts to choose to move on. I STILL WONDER. IS THIS THEIR SALVATION IF THEY REGRET BECOMING A GHOST??!!!
Is a ghost even capable of making that sort of decision? Everything we're told about them says that they're not able to learn or move past who they were when they died.
@@BastiatC , like the video, I really question that statement, because we have multiple examples of it not being true. The quote from Nearly-Headless Nick used in the video states outright that Nick is aware that his current existence is a pale imitation of life and says he questions his decision to do it (demonstrating he does regret it in some capacity). Helena Ravenclaw learns what happens after she tells Tom Riddle about the diadem and regrets it (changing her attitude about it by making her more reluctant to tell Harry about it).
@@BastiatC but they can learn after they become ghosts. Like J says, Nearly Headless Nick for example knows exactly who Harry is and why he is important.
That was my thought as well. Ghosts might not even be able to see the veil. They'd just see an empty archway, and would be able to go through it back and forth without any effect.
@@PhilBagels well no, I think that ghosts in particular are the only ones who can pass through the veil and go to whatever world is on the other side and "live" to tell the tale. Dumbledore said death is the next great adventure, I think ghosts feel limited because they haven't moved on mentally and gotten over their deaths but I they may actually be the most free and useful creatures to exist in the wizarding world. Imagine doing tests on the death room, someone agrees to die and come back as a ghost and then traverses the netherrealm
@@Esterferreiradecastro we know that wizards don't make use of other forms of magic, they consider house elf magic lesser despite their being able to surpass wizards magic. I don't think wizards would even consider ghosts as a viable option any more than they would consider using pens vs quills. Like scb said, ghosts are stuck in the worst version of themselves in the worst mentality they had before death, they'd never be able to wake themselves up from that, unless the wizard dies on purpose SOLELY to come back as a ghost. Dumbledore says "to the well prepared mind, death is but the next great adventure". I think that if you died happy but willing to come back (maybe like the fat friar) you could come back and be helpful in other ways.
@@isaiahcaston4539 idk about that, the ghosts help around a lot, especially at hogwarts, so I don’t think wizards wouldn’t consider using them. Also, despite being stuck in that state of when they died, they are still able to be helpfull and like or dislike people, as we see many times with the ghosts and harry or luna, so it’s not too crazy to think they would want to help and be able to do that task.
One thing to add, Harry and Luna are NOT the only ones in the group that can see Thestrals. Neville sees them too, but you are right about "being comfortable with death" because Neville definitely isnt!
Imo, I think nothing would happen to Barty Crouch Jr's consciousness, which was destroyed when the dementor ate it, but I feel like the body would essentially disintegrate, or at least vanish, same with Sirius's body, since I imagine their soul (if it's in the body) would be whisked away into "On" whilst the body simply turns to nothing and remains in the physical world, perhaps coming out the other side of the arch as a breeze or a speckle of dust, since a body is physical and cannot go 'on' considering "on" is a metaphysical plane of existance where something physical wouldn't be able to exist. I think this is true for all physical things sent through the veil, if they have a soul, its whisked away straight to "on" without the waiting room of limbo, so people who die to the veil probably cant choose to come back as a ghost. Meanwhile the body simply cant just jump dimensions, so it likely gets vanished in a transfiguration sense. If the object does not have a soul, like a kissed body, or any other lifeless/soulless object for that matter, it'll just simply get vanished, because obviously.
I assume the body would be killed and go wherever Sirius's body went. Unless you need a soul to got through veil, then it would just act like any other inanimate object.
Well, the veil absorbs both body and soul. If you throw BCJ at it, or any soulless body for that matter, the veil would absorb his body anyway, and nothing else. Unless the veil is kinda sentient and actively wants souls, only absorbing bodies with a soul because they contain what it wants. Then I guess it would show no interest in BCJ.
Interesting. To me, the next question is: Is The Veil used by the Ministry? Maybe they use it as a tool to carry out death penalties? This way, dark wizards/witches couldn't be killed, but opt to remain as a ghost in order to continue to spread dark magic through the living. Or maybe there is a Department of Ghost Management that has a process for Ghosts to request finally dying? Say Sir Nick is finally ready to die, can he apply to be allowed through The Veil?
I love the bureaucratic way you mentioned this -- like a ghost application for death but they would need an agent to support all the documents and paperwork. It would make for an hilarious comedy sketch.
@@ShrustiTripathy "Sir, you are a Sumerian ghost, you can no longer be transferred directly to the proper afterlife. But we can transfer you to the Iraqi Bureau of Afterlife Affairs and see what they can do."
I completely understood Nicholas' description of Ghost "life". I do think Professor Binns' unfinished business is teaching which I can at least respect his commitment.
"A ghost, as I trust that you are all aware by now, is the imprint of a departed soul left upon the earth ... and of course, as Potter so wisely tells us, transparent." - Snape HBP chapter 21
Just to correct you on the fact that Neville can also see thestrals, he saw his grandad die, read order of the phoenix chapter 21: eye of the snake mainly pages 412-415 in my house edition
@@rebeccafogde8922 just read the chapter about finding the veil (page 713 of the house edition) and it does say Neville hears voices but him and Ginny were staring, apparently entranced at the veil
The mirror of erised doesn't show the dead. It showed Harry what he wanted most, a family. He knew he was an only child, so he didn't imagine any siblings, but there is no evidence that the rest of the people he saw actually looked like his real family members. He did see several people that gave him certain physical characteristics, but those could easily have been conjured by his desire
It did actively show the dead. Harry didn't just see random people being his family, he saw his own family for the first time. The mirror presented information Harry couldn't have known.
Imo, I think nothing would happen to Barty Crouch Jr's consciousness, which was destroyed when the dementor ate it, but I feel like the body would essentially disintegrate, or at least vanish, same with Sirius's body, since I imagine their soul (if it's in the body) would be whisked away into "On" whilst the body simply turns to nothing and remains in the physical world, perhaps coming out the other side of the arch as a breeze or a speckle of dust, since a body is physical and cannot go 'on' considering "on" is a metaphysical plane of existance where something physical wouldn't be able to exist.
I remember either the Harry Potter wiki or potter more stating that when the dementor sucks the soul, the body is left behind in a “permanent vegetative state” as called by muggles. Basically they are brain dead.
@@AndyHappyGuy What's interesting about that is that the killing curse just straight up kills the person. The theory is that it jolts the soul from the body ,but when a dementor sucks out your soul, you are left just barely alive, so maybe it doesn't get all of it and a tiny part remain behind in the body. Maybe the dementors are kind of like horcruxes.
I agree. I think that the reason why sirius dies is because the arch destroys your body, sending your soul to the afterlife. I am not sure if the ghosts would be harmed because they dont have a body to destroy
I think of it this way: Alive: -Soul: Intact in body -Body: Fine in normal world -Body and Soul are attached Normal death: -Soul: Intact in afterlife -Body: Broken in normal world -Body and Soul are not attached Dementor: -Soul: Eaten in Dementor -Body: Fine in normal world -Body and Soul are not attached Ghost: -Soul: Intact in normal world -Body: Broken in normal world -Body and Soul are not attached Veil: -Soul: Intact in afterlife -Body: Intact in afterlife -Body and Soul are attached
You know, I never thought about it, but Neville in the books CAN infact see threstals, as he saw his great uncle I think die. So how could he not hear the Veil's whispers?
Luna’s mother dies at a young age Harry’s parents die when he’s one Maybe Neville saw his grandpa/Uncle die later in life so it’s still a wound while the other two already lived with death. Or maybe because Neville isn’t as at peace or maybe because he’s not as close to that relative
@@keithemerson7662 that’s not what I mean. Both Harry and Luna experienced the death of someone very close but since it was so long ago, the pain is lessened compared to Neville’s relative recently dying. Unlike Luna and Harry, he didn’t have years to come to terms with it
Theory Idea: Bellatrix wasn't a Death Eater when she went to Azkaban. I was reading Ch. 33 of GoF with a group, and we noticed that when Voldemort is walking around the circle of Death Eaters, he stops and points out a spot where two people should have stood, and says that it is where the Lestranges should have been. But three Lestranges went to Azkaban. Bella, her husband and her brother-in-law. Someone suggested that Rabastan died in Azkaban, but there are three other open spots for people Voldy claimed died in his service. The only other three open spots were supposed to be for Snape, Karkaroff and Barty Crouch Jr. So where is Bellatrix's spot? I think she wasn't originally a death eater. I also think Voldemort didn't allow women to become Death Eaters when he first rose to power. There are no other women in that circle or who are even refered to there. The only other woman Death Eater we know of is Allecto Carrow, but she is young (I think) and would have joined the group later. Maybe Bellatrix married Rodolphus literally to gain proximity to the group? He's absolutely a useless character otherwise and we know from Cursed Child she has Voldemort's daughter. I know Pottermore exists and it might contradict this idea, but Pottermore is quite literally not in the text, so even though I find it interesting from time to time, it is kinda useless as a literary tool. If you've just read the books then Pottermore means nothing. That's just to say this theory is based solely on the books.
putting a soulless body through the veil like Crouch Jr. would probably send the body to the great beyond, because both Sirius’ soul AND body vanish when he falls through.
but does it mean anything anymore? if a dementor sucks someones soul, doesnt the soul utterly and permanently destroyed? body can go to the great beyond but i think i wont have a soul to operate the body.
@@45memet we really don't know if the soul is "destroyed" do we? i'd like to think that a dementor, when it consumes someone's soul, doesn't actually destroy it. instead it separates the soul from the body. the soul moves on, and the body still lives. but to actually "destroy" the soul is horrid. it makes it more disturbing that these things are allowed to exist. if I were dumbledore, forget letting these things even patrol the borders of the school. destroy them on sight. Am I saying they don't "destroy" the soul? No, I don't know. I'm just saying, so far as I know, we really don't know what happens to soul after they eat it. I would like to thing they don't destroy it, or chew it up, or digest it and otherwise maim it, etc. that the dementor doesn't even act as a container. Perhaps it absorbs whatever happiness remaining in the soul, but the soul remains whole and moves onto the other side. the idea that these dark creatures are capable of taking not just your soul, but permanently destroying it so that you can't "move on" is utterly disturbing. and while, yes they are dark creatures, and dark things are allowed to be disturbing whether I like them or not, the idea that the wizarding world is "ok" with keeping these things around at all is just a hole to me. why would anyone who knows what these creatures do not destroy everyone they see. or keep them around a school. They control the dementors somehow. they must be able to inflict true pain or destruction on them.
I really like the idea of ghosts being able to move on through the veil. It gives me hope that Helena Ravenclaw would be able to move one. Her unfinished business was the diadem. Heck maybe that would mean the Baron could move on as well since she was his unfinished business. That would just be beautifull.
If someone dies without having ever seen anyone else die, and then they choose to become a ghost, can they see Thestrals because they experienced their own "death"? (Death being used loosely since... ghosts aren't truly dead)
@@ShrustiTripathy Yes, they really "know nothing about death," so they wouldn't have been able to process it, especially if they're not able to process other concepts as a ghost.
@@ShrustiTripathy Yeah, I think I'd have to go with that answer as well... But, I could see how there COULD be a loophole because, to see a Thestral, you have to have "seen death", which you could maybe interpret as seeing the act of killing? So, because you saw yourself get killed (if they died by murder, that is), then you've seen an act with the intent of death? Which is kind of like seeing death? All that to say, I don't think that really holds up that well, so I have to side with you that they can't see them. Still fun to think about, though!
They made a video about Voldemort and the Veil. You should be able to find it on channel or by searching it up. Edit: if you look up Voldemort and the Veil it should be the third video
I believe it just like killing a horcruxe, 8th of Voldemort dead, however, some still existing horcruxe may come back to life like the diary almost did
@@travel4480 Yeah exactly. They all have their own independent lives anyway since they're split up, and they can come back individually at any time. Hermione said a soul cant be hurt by a sword, but a horcrux is the opposite of a soul, so when the object holding the Horcrux gets run through by the sword, it gets destroyed and so does the soul shard. Voldemort’s body is not a horcrux. It's just holding the soul piece. So if you run Voldemort’s body through with a sword, his soul piece won't be affected... but if he walks through the veil, it would probably be destroyed. That's the only explanation really because, the soul can't move on if it's split and the other soul pieces are still alive. The veil would end up forcibly destroying that soul piece, because it refuses to move on and it's impossible to move back out of the veil
Never thought about it before, but if you can't interact with ghosts, physically, how did Madam Pomfree reverse Nearly Headless Nick's petrification in The Chamber of Secrets?
Could it be as simple as pouring it through him? At the Death Day party, there is putrid food and if the ghosts zoom through it, they can almost sort of taste it.
I wouldn''t call Lily's and James' appearances "loopholes" (or the result of loopholes). In the Mirror of Erised, they aren't really there. The mirror is interacting only with Harry - showing him the "deepest, most desperate desire of his heart." It's showing him a projection. They are not there in any sense. In the graveyard in Little Hangleton, they are an "echo." They are only sort of there, like Cedric, Frank Bryce, and Bertha Jorkins. They aren't even ghosts like the ghosts at Hogwarts. At "the close" is the one time they are, along with Remus and Sirius, in some sense there. That is the what the Resurrection Stone does, but again, as the one Peverell brother learns, it's not truly resurrection. Unlike Nearly-Headless Nick, who CHOSE his fld eeble imitation of life, they are dragged back to a feeble imitation of life. The only reason that they aren't miserable like the girlfriend of the Peverell brother is that Harry isn't trying to keep them there, where they don't belong. They are there with one purpose - to accompany him on his way to death. Still, it is Harry who invokes their fleeting, semi-presence in the living world and as soon as he drops the stone, they're gone. It seems to me that if a ghost, like Nearly-Headless Nick, were to choose to walk through the veil, he might be freed to move on. Perhaps if he were forced through the veil but still clung to his imitation of life, it would have no effect, or perhaps he would face the choice again to stay or go. I suppose you could be right that the veil leads only to the Beyond in which case he would be forced out of his feeble imitation of life no matter what. What would happen to Barty Crouch Junior's body? I suppose it would lose physical existence and thus Barty would then be totally dead. But my understanding of the dementors' kiss is that they consume your soul. They don't just remove it from your body, and leave it free to make the choice to be a ghost or move on. I suppose they might entrap it within themselves, but my impression is that it is destroyed - metabolized into the "stuff" a dementor is made of.
Neville's parents were tortured to the point where their minds were essentially destroyed. While their bodies are alive, they are no longer their old selves.
@@dwinters6291 but the person he saw die was his grandfather. Unless you're saying that what happened to his parents is why he has a disconnect with the veil (and death) that would be interesting.
Voldemort is so funny because literally everything other than what he actually did would’ve helped him live longer. Even for forever, if he decided to become a ghost.
@@keithemerson7662 If he didn't go into Godric's Hollow, he'd not have been a 'ghost' for fourteen years though. And he probably would've already conquered the world.
The more important questions.... What would happen if a Phoenix went through the veil? What would happen if you threw a horcrux through a veil? What happens to inanimate objects? Did Sirius' clothes.....die?
I think Rowling's description of why and how one becomes a ghost is this vague because she did not want to go to deep into such an obscure business. From a writing perspective, it's far easier to do as she did. Also I think Binns' unfinished business is to teach to a classroom full of genuinely interested students which does not seem to have ever happened.
@@cooperburnham2359 Oh, interesting. They might have heard voices then,it's also possible it's just such an epicenter of magic that it's enticing them but it's definitely possible they were hearing voices
Theory about the Killing Curse: To my knowledge we don't know anyone that has become a ghost after dying to the Killing Curse and if anyone would come back as a ghost, Voldemort would have. He effectively was killed by the Killing Curse rebounding and hitting him, so he couldn't come back as a ghost. Hermione specifically says running someone through with a sword kills the body, but the soul is untouched. What if the reverse is true for the Killing Curse? The soul is destroyed and the body is perfectly intact. We know the body is perfectly intact since the books mention that muggle coroners are baffled because they seem to be in perfect health, except that they're just dead. It even explains why it's an Unforgivable Curse. Sure killing someone is bad, but they clearly still have some form of an afterlife (*cough* *cough* Potters *cough*). The Killing Curse destroys your soul and utterly ends you. No choice to be a ghost, no afterlife. It also makes me wonder if Crucio actually damages the soul. The Imperious Curse being unforgivable makes some sense since it lasts so long and completely takes over you, but there are other forms of that that are sold commercially like love potions that can make loveless monsters like Voldemort. I'd love to see you guys dive into this a bit more!
I'm pretty sure that's it. The killing curse probably does just remove your soul. Thus leaving no mark on the physical body. And your theory about the Crucio curse is interesting. What if the Imperio curse is also actually about controlling your soul; that would tie them all together.
The Killing Curse is unforgivable because it's, well, 1) instantly killing people, and 2) un-blockable. Harry's soul is definitely in-tact after allowing himself to be killed by the curse, and no, being the master of the Elder Wand wouldn't have allowed him to change the curse's effects, he didn't invent or cast it.
You seem to be ignoring the only definition of a ghost we get in the books: The imprint left by a departed soul. So In my opinion, when someone dies but tries to cling to life, they leave a version of themselves - an imprint, to imitate their living selves. But the soul - reluctant as it is - will pass on. So, what happens when a ghost passes through the veil? Nothing, they will just appear on the other side of the archway in the mortal world. This is the tragedy of ghostly existence. They are stuck here, truly and completely.
He literally used that definition in the video. Everything you stated is just what you said - your opinion. None of it is actually based in canon - you didn't even manage to demonstrate how that quote proves your point. At least he provides evidence, shaky as it might be. That's always better than no evidence, just a strong feeling. Which is all you've really given.
@@LordofFullmetal The quote J used was about the imprint of a deceased witch or wizard. In the books, Snape teaches about ghost (a discussion above this one quotes it) and there it is the imprint of the soul of a deceased witch or wizard. It seems like a small difference, but the imprint of a deceased witch or wizard could be their soul, where as the imprint of a soul isn't the soul itself.
As a Ravenclaw, I only felt *slightly* embarrassed at how. VERY. EXCITED! I got when you said "I can show my work! I left room in the margins!" 🤩😍🥰 Also also actually actually, that clip of "But I am the chosen one." **WHACK!** "Okay, right, sorry." Is my FAVORITE. It's my "whatchu fellover for?" 😁😂
You guys should read the wheel of time by Robert Jordan, it’s a big commitment but it is very good and ripe for all kinds of theories Sane for the green bone saga by Fonda Lee, except it’s not nearly as big of a commitment
I feel like the more convenient explanation is that living bodies sent through the veil are destroyed. However the more interesting explanation is that they get sent to the afterlife. So Sirius became sort of a reverse ghost, one of few who still has a body, and then Barty Crouch Jr's body go through and is just a dead body in the afterlife, which his his deceased family buries and gets some closure that otherwise may never come.
Maybe this is how dementors die: the person who’s soul they take is pushed through the veil and it pulls the dementor closer and closer to its demise… or maybe the dementor being pushed through the veil releases the souls it took in its life and finally set them free to “move on”? 👀 🤷♀️
Love the theory, and I think you have the right idea! But, gotta say it, Neville can see thestrals too. And while Luna and Harry are definitely the most interested in the Veil and confirmed they hear the voices through it, Neville and Ginny are also ‘entranced’ by it. I always thought it was interesting that the 6 characters had different levels of experience with death and interest/interactions in the Veil.
"That's the room for ghosts that have been exorcised. Poor devils, that is death for the dead. It's all in the handbook." Beetlejuice answered this in 1988.
Sirius' body vanished when he passed through the veil. I wonder, would that only work for living (or formerly living) things or is it a general dematerializer?
The description of the veil and dementors are very similar in my mind, so I think Barty Crouch Jr would for real die. I would argue that dementors are similar to the veil but specifically for your body. Especially when you consider how Harry was drawn to the veil and the voices beyond when he first sees the veil, and how the fight in the chamber seems to draw people closer and closer to the veil until someone eventually falls through it (Serious). Much like how the dementors are drawn to living things (happy, hopeful, full of life things), it seems to me that living things (aware of or aquatinted with death) are drawn towards the veil. Thoughts?
7:17 Why does no one remember that Neville can see Thestrals too? It doesn't come up as much, but it's said when Harry first learns about Thestrals from Hagrid
A couple thoughts: I hypothesise that, as usual in ghost lore, ghosts are permanently attached to the places they knew and cherished while living; this means that in order to get to the veil, they would need to have visited it o they would need it brought to them. Under that same assumption, if, say, Hogwarts were desdroyed, would its ghosts perish, move to a different cherished location, roam without a destiny or purpose, or what?
Yeah, I thought that too, but then I remembered the headless hunt. They were out of town ghosts that were able to travel around, so I assume that ghosts can go wherever they want to, but they just usually choose not to? It would makes sense that if they had unfinished business in a certain place, and they can't move on from that unfinished business, that most of the time ghosts wouldn't choose to leave the place they associate with the reason why they stayed. It was never made clear if the unfinished business was to be resolved if a ghost could just choose to move on eventually. Idk, it's probably just something that jkr wasn't too fixated on and didn't give much back story/logic to
This got me thinking. If a regular non gateway death leads you to a similiar room as Harry experienced it, and you have those 2 choices, how do you choose. Is it instinctual, or does everyone have their own version of a Dumbledore to explain it to them. Or perhaps normally the is Stan Shunpike waiting and asking "What you fell over for?".
@@lucasd9469 At the risk of going awry of the "If you know you know" statement, ghosts are neither here nor there, but Roy Kent is here there and everywhere.
@@tiller6750 OHHHH ty for explaining, I thought it had something to do with the whole ghosts on the field plotline where they had to give the spirits peace lol
I doubt every witch IR wizard gets to chose. I think there would be a lot more ghosts. Perhaps, the “length” or “ability of the choice” depend on the connection to the living world. Since Harry’s was so strong (whole blood thing), his experience was very robust (a full train station and conversation). Someone with mere resentment holding them back, like myrtle may only have a split second to make the decision. That is why there are only so many ghosts, it takes a certain personality to be able to make that decision quick enough. If you gave everyone the choice and enough time, there would be ghosts everywhere.
If anything, I think that would cause the opposite problem: if your death was sudden, I think your first instinct would be to reject death. However, given time, you’d have the ability to reflect on your life up to that point and make the choice much more rationally. Based on the “poor imitation of life” stuff, I imagine that would make it more likely people would choose to move on
I don't get why he is saying that. I thought its obvious. They said if you leave a magical imprint of yourself on the earth, you'll come back as a ghost Nothing to do with Harry's experience
Not necessarily. The existence of ghosts (and the death stone) proves, definitively, that there is life after death in Harry Potter's world. I think it makes sense that far fewer wizards and witches would be afraid of death KNOWING that there's something on the other side. Especially when your alternative is essentially an eternity of misery (imagine being "alive" but not being able to partake in ANY of what that means), I imagine most people would choose to move on. Also, it's not like there aren't lots of ghosts. We just don't see them. Hogwarts alone seems to have hundreds of them - why are you acting like there aren't that many?
I agree with what you said, but wouldn't ghosts at some time know about the veil and possibly decide to go through it? They can still learn things and make decisions. Also, I think that Barty Jr would not go "on" in the afterlife with all the other dead people, since I assume it requires to have a soul. So it would be like if it was an object, it would just cease to exist, his body would disappear or just not be absorbed by the veil. Edit: I actually think that the body would just be ignored by the veil, since it hasn't got a soul inside it and it would be considered like any object, that does not have a soul to transport to the "other side".
This video really got me thinking. What would happen if a ghost encountered a dementor? Would their soul become nonexistent or would some other magical phenomenon happen? Can dementors even effect ghosts, as they are indeed just the detached soul/persona of the past being who died.
They are described as the visual/memorial remnants of the spells most recently cast by the wand's wielder. They aren't exactly souls, more like memories being given temporarily life.
Ok, so my thinking is, the veil is a portal between the world of the living and the world of the dead/afterlife/whatever you want to call it. It isn't a tool to kill and death is just a side effect of passing through it. So it doesn't really matter if ghosts are dead or alive, if they use the veil, they go to the world of the dead. The only difference is, if they would be considered dead, that mean they wouldn't experience the side effect of dying, they would simply walk through it to the afterlife, like walking through the "door". And as it's clearly stated that the veil is one way passage only, even if ghosts were considered dead and didn't change their form while passing through the veil, they still couldn't come back. And the same thing goes for a body of a dead person or a body without a soul - Barty Crouch Jr. or any other - it goes through the "door" and never comes back.
You guys always forget that along with Harry and Luna, Neville can also see thestrals. He saw his grandfather die. I mean, honestly, if he couldn’t see them, I doubt anyone would be able to get him to mount one, let alone fly one to the Ministry. Even though Neville has his mojo at this point, we know he is terrified of flying, let alone on something he can’t see.
1:28 Knowing that the Veil is very much like a Rift conduit, it would likely do nothing unless the conduit was open. 4:16 That's more than 'a little'... that's what, five, six, eight gallons of water, at least? 7:16 I'll quote a short bit from Shinryu's writings on Rift conduits in the footnotes. Might be worth a read. Book 4, Part 135, Phrases 16 - 35: "...smooth stone archways, beautiful to the viscera of the foolish, for those that even draw near vanish in an instant, seemingly never to be seen again. Ivulisairan the Red Scaled One, called them 'Olai', an ancient draken euphemism. Mortals had called them many names, yet 'Kinzuita' seems to be the most common." *_Kinzuita_* is Kinrali (Fairy language!) for 'Conduit', but without supporting context it can mean one of several things. I do not know any dragon languages, so I have no idea what 'Olai' is in reference to. I'm actually curious about the Veil; is it always open? That's absolutely dangerous if so. Rift conduits should never be left open due to flux overflow perils, and I'm not kidding when I say that the level of danger from flux overflow is far greater than Tom Riddle could ever present (good luck taking over the entire world from a gravitation vacuum). Rift conduits are a massive Alteration sorcery project (yes I said project), and are not to be taken lightly. Alteration sorcery in itself, is not meant to be taken lightly. *_Velodareka!!_* (warps a long distance away)
I think whoever said that bit in the books about ghosts being unable to learn was just flat out wrong (if it came from the books; I can't recall the source of that info). As pointed out in the video, the various ghosts obviously learn about new people every time there is a new year at Hogwarts. Even the "fact" that they don't change is contradicted by scenes in the book. Helena Ravenclaw learns what happens after she tells Tom Riddle about the diadem and regrets it. This experience changes her attitude about it as we can see in her reluctance to tell Harry. Perhaps there is some truth that ghosts are less likely to change and become more stubbornly set in their ways, but they can change and they can learn.
I think that it's not that they can't learn, but that they don't mature like people normally would. If a ghost is a child, even if they have been a ghost for hundreds of years, they would still be more or less still a child mentally. Which kind if makes sense since "growing up" is in part life experience as well as the stage of development your brain is at. If you don't actually have a physical brain anymore then much of how you process information would remain stagnant
I always figured that this was the original/true purpose of the veil, as a gateway for ghosts, a way for those who were tired of the choice they had made to go about fixing things. But of course the ministry built itself up around it, making it impossible for ghosts to find and use it, trapping the regretful here on earth forever.
Y'all videos are great. Lots of laughs and makes me think a lot about one of my favorite series. 2 things for you guys to laugh and think about; 1.)Pettigrew chopped his own hand off and not only didn't bleed out, but just went about business casually. 2.) In CoS Tom shows Harry the memory of Hagrid being expelled. Thanks to the addition of the FB series we get to see a younger Dumbledore. If that memory is only 15 years after the FBCoG, why did Dumbledore age so badly? Lol. Books over movies.
Amazing theory. Love it. One image I couldn’t shake as I listened was the end of ‘The Last Battle’ by CS Lewis when, if I recall correctly (it’s been some years since I read it) there’s this final doorway that all beings and spirits in Narnia, even the stars themselves, have to pass through at the end of time. I love the idea that even the ghosts will get their chance to reach the great eternal beyond, even if not yet. 🤔
But didn’t Nick look directly into the Basilisk’s eyes? Why would that petrify him instead of killing him? Could fiend fire or basilisk venom kill ghosts or would it pass through them? Really makes ya think.
He did look directly into the Basilisk's eyes. "But he couldn't die again", as he's already dead, so he just got petrified. And the kid with him saw the Basilisk through Nick, and therefore also only got petrified.
The veil has always haunted my imagination since I read book 5. An archway with no clear reason to be there, but you feel like you really don't want to walk through. When Sirius is hit with some sort of stunning curse (something the movie got horribly wrong) and is knocked into the veil, I still remember the awful feeling of confusion about his fate, and the false hope that he'd step back out again. I have my issues with the author, but when she chooses to, she can create some fantastically striking imagery.
Great theory. Also,death doesn't have to be inevitable,CGP Grey (I think) did a great video on it. How you must stop thinking that way and actually work to fight death,see it as an illness not a fact of life.
Love this theory. I think I would actually choose to be a ghost to talk to my loved ones for a last time and maybe go somewhere I always wanted to but afterwards I would simply find a way to get to that veil and peacefully go on.
4:43 that actually brings up a very interesting question. HOW exactly did Madame Pomfrey and Professor Sprout administer the Mandrake cure to Nearly Headless Nick?
I’ve always been fascinated with the department of mysteries. I would really like to see a series of shows or maybe a movie about it and what it contains, it could even go a minor horror route…
the kicker though--the Veil probably wouldn't "kill" them. It would kill a partially living entity. My guess is, a living person dies but a ghost would just....vanish from existence all together. They don't move on or have that choice, they just...die in the most final way possible. Which makes being a ghost that much sadder...
I like this idea. A dementors kiss for a ghost. They have already got rid of the part of their soul that allows them to exist in the afterlife. So they essential just get rid of the part that allows them to exist only in the mortal/physical world.
I love the idea that the veil is a way that a ghost can finally move on. Few probably ever learn of its existence though, which is sad. And that’s a great question… what DOES happen when the victim of a dementor’s kiss dies? 🤔
Only half way through, but can't Neville also see thestrals? He doesn't hear voices but he does see thestrals. He saw his grandfather die and tells toadlady this.
What do you mean ghosts can't change their mind? Harry literally convinced Ravenclaw to tell him where the diadem was when she didn't want to. As did Voldemort.
Well they can't learn new information to change there mind of becoming a ghost, with Ravenclaw with what she was before she died and became a ghost, both harry, and Voldemort would be able to convince a still living Ravenclaw on the location of the diadem, they just can't change her mind of her decision to be a ghost, but the information they needed from her, wouldn't affect her being a ghost or not, so she's able to tell them. Edit 1 - I made my point more clearly.
Think of it like life-knowlege, death freezes you in the ego you are currently in, choosing to be a ghost means you don't really change as a person in any major way, any goals or desires you may or may not have had won't change, like living as your final snapshot/picture.
@@astolfofansunny4047 just seems like a plot hole because the Bloody Baron was a literal murderer that they I guess let be the ghost of Slytherin tower. Not exactly the best idea to have a murderer influencing 11 year olds. Unless he's changed since he died hundreds of years ago
@@Emma-zc5jm yes he's a murder who regreted killing so much, he decided to be a ghost, and never move into the afterlife, dooming himself to be a ghost forever. Seeing as the only person he ever killed well alive made him have so much guilt, he decided to never move on into the afterlife, I think he's not going to go killing the students at hogwarts, and even if he tried, he can't harm anyone, since he can't physically touch them.
What if you threw Barty Crouch JR'S body through the Veil? You would get very wierd looks from the people around you as you randomly yeeted a soulless container of a criminal through an archway.
For the last three months, this has been one of my top ideas/questions about Harry Potter, since I dived back into the series. It came about when Myrtle talked about her afterlife: Myrtle says that after she died, she haunted Olive Hornby in revenge, not stopping until the Ministry got involved. My question was how would that help? She is a ghost. What could the Ministry possibly do to punish her for malicious or annoying behavior? But if a ghost is on This side of the veil, and if a ghost can be petrified and then moved with a simple fan, then that would explain exactly how the Ministry could threaten a ghost. Problem solved. I searched your videos, and it looked as though you guys never tackled that one and I was wondering how to ask about these cool ideas, but apparently great minds think alike. Thank you for another great video.
I've always wondered what would happen if Harry (after becoming the master of death) walked through the veil holding the elder wand, turning the resurrection stone and underneath the invisibility cloak. I reckon he would actually be able to walk through the veil and return without dying
Do we think there are any spells that could "kill/remove/disappear" a ghost? Could Dumbledore rid this school of all the ghosts if he wanted to? (This includes the Poltergeists)
My thoughts on this: I don't think any, even Dumbledore, could remove the poltergeists without gettingrid of the people. However, I think the ghost part is very interesting. I do think it is possible to magically remove (and or possibly contain) ghosts from places. I don't think that you could (at least not so easily) move them on.
Good sirs, you all cover topics I never knew I needed to know about! I like watching and re-watching your videos because like the Harry Potter series, I pick up details I didn't pick up before!
I would like you guys to expound upon the portraits. Are the deceased’s thoughts limited to what they were when they died or are they basically ghosts?
Maybe that's why the veil was made. A witch or wizard felt bad for their ghost friend who regretted becoming a ghost and made a way for them to pass on
Yknow the opening made me wonder something I hadn't thought of before which may have been a topic in the past but what happens if a Horcrux is made out of a Dementor victim? Does the soul fragment gain full control over the body?
This idea of ghosts basically being a horcrux would also give some explanation as to where horcruxes came from in the first place. If this is some witch or wizard seeing ghosts and thinking, "Can I get the benefits they have without the detriments?" then they have an avenue to start down to imitate the process in life.
You guys always come up with the best theories. I love all the ones you’ve made about the veil, with the horcuxes and the blood pact and whether it would be able to destroy those.
They say muggles can't become ghosts but Frank Bryce the old Muggle man showed up as a ghost/spirit form in the goblet of fire movie when the other people voldy killed showed up, so I'm wondering how that happened.
Thinking about it ghosts seem like a more mobile version of a portrait, like portraits seem fully capable of learning new info and dumbledores even continues to give instructions to snape after his death