Cursed Child Discussion | HP Chats 

Yes! They are my biggest OTP in the world, I love them so much!

I just want to be able to talk about the development that Draco got in this play for hours because it was AMAZING. And Scorpius was a little cinnamon role of joy and I adore him.

***** Well honestly I wasn't really reading it as a friendship because it certainly wasn't written like just a friendship.

Exactly what I was going to say! I could only read their relationship as glaringly not platonic. If we were supposed to believe it was platonic, I don't think it was written that well. But if the intention was romantic, then it was written spot on ;)

Amen! I have to give the book credit, it made hanging out with the Malfoys much more appealing than the Golden Trio.

I just got around Reading it, and I wish I watched the old reviews like these so I didn't waste my time.

Agree.

It's the most horrendous thing to ever be attached to anything Harry Potter. And thats including the vibrating children's broom. 😳

@@emancoy true. I have read it almost a year ago and i regret it so much. It's awfull. It's so bad i- i can't even. Ugh.

Same!

I totally agree. I have felt for a while now that the wizarding world should maybe just be left alone. I adore the original seven books, but no information we have received about the story since Deathly Hallows has felt as magical as the original books! I love the characters, and I love the world, but I would be happy just seeing them left alone for a while.

Honestly!

Exactly. None of this additional content (Pottermore, CC, FBAWTFT, etc) really seems to add anything other than overkill. I feel like it's all actually just taking away from the overall mystery, magic, and imagination of the series by inundating us with new material.

PumpkinMozie, J.K.R. didn't even write this ! This was made by 2 men. the cover says BASED on books by J.K.R. or something similar to that.

This is another super valid point!

Yes!! Exactly! This sounds so much more in character for the Harry that I love. Don't get me wrong, Harry sometimes had a hard time throughout the series communicating the way I think he should have, but I think this is much more a direction he would have gone with Albus than what happened in the play itself. I think Albus and Harry could have found such unique common ground in terms of the expectations they had to live up to, even if those expectations were so drastically different. Neither of them felt they quite fit in within the world of Hogwarts (obviously in super different ways) but I think that even if Harry didn't understand Albus not feeling at home at Hogwarts, he would have at least identified with the feeling Albus has that he is set apart from everyone else.

ProblemsofaBookNerd not only that but cedric becoming a death eater because he lost the tournament was bullshit he was a true hufflepuff and would never do that ever like EVER!!! that is another mistake

haha so true

trolls r us why are you saying "also not fond of Rowling's writing" when she wasnt talking about her writing she was talking about this fanfiction play. if you dont like harry potter why are you watching a video about it?

I never read a Script before. But i am 100% Sure that this one was THE Most terrible and stupid one. This Story would still BE terrible If j.k.r. wrote this herself. Bcs this Story ist bullshit. Everyone single Part of IT.

Definitely agree

Disagree. They both we're terrible Charakters in my opinion. They were so embrassing. Their Lines we're embrassing. No Kids would Talk the was These 2 did. What i Like about Harry and Ron friendship was that they were Just how You would Imagine any Boys. Not good at talking about their Feelings, getting angry at Things Like Kids would geht , and Most important getting jealous how You would expect from Kids. Harry was gealous of Ron bcsnof His big happy Family, Ron would BE jeaoulus bcs Harry was so popular SOMETIMES, or thinking that Hermione liked Harry more bcs of His Popularity. Getting selfish sometimes, and later making Up somehow without Usingen too many wirds) Harry Potter ist magical and everyone has big problems bcs of Voldemort or deatheaters. But at THE Same time everyone has His own Personal Problems Like Love, friendship and so in

Oh, and school stuff of course) Like Tests or annoxing teachers. But this Script seemed Like ITS about 2 Boys who maybe gay but maybe Not gay. I didnt her this Shit. And inestly, i didnt really need a gay romance in Harry Potter. U can das whatever, but i feels Like ITS getting trendy to TRy Out of You are gay or Not nowadays. And rogether with this, ITS also modern being an Atheist. Not beliving in anything, where ITS alright to TRy If You are gay or lesbian. But thinking logicaly, ITS Not a voincidece that men anderes Woman wer created with all the Body parts down Theres which match rogether Like IT was a Puzzle . That a men has THE sperms, and THE Woman the ability to created a Baby from sperms. Nobody would BE alive If IT was Adam and Adam from THE start. Or Eva and Eva. These 2 bodies we're created to make Babies. So im Not accepting that being gay ist somethig good.

i agree so much with everything else too btw! especially the queer baiting! this book really just makes me want to cry, why are they trying to ruin everything good about the series?!

tomkyleviven Ron for life, yo. Ron is the BEST.

I love Ron. I am a huge Ron, Hermione fan. I hated Harry. He was absolutely my least favorite character in the whole series.

@Fiery Apple. Then why are you here? And why do you hypocritically ignore the time other characters are assholes?

@Mauricio Ortega lol, okay, Steve.

I'm willing to believe that he loved her initially, but I think that over the years after she broke off her friendship with him and after her death it became less and less pure in love. I think it became obsessive love, or even love only by his own definitions. And none of those feelings ever excuse abuse, especially abuse towards children who look up to professors for guidance and protection the way many do at Hogwarts.

BELLA AND VOLDY HAVE A CHILD? I HAVENT READ THE PIECE OF SHIT BUT WAHHHH???? omg....

@@hazzaytic7636 You DIDNT MISS ANYTHING GOOD! I WASTED FEW HOURS ON THIS SHIT. IT WAS NOT HARRY POTTER WORLD. IT was a terrible terrible Script written by, how IT seemed to me, some little kid.i could Not find THE great writing of j.k.rowling anywhere. Most terrible writing i ever read.

Tru

Fuckin’ A, dude. Fuckin’ A....

@@asetdedieva4642 What's with the spelling, dude?

@@D0MiN0ChAn ugh sorry, writing too fast and the annoying auto corrector that i Cant deactivate No Matter what i TRy.

I'm rereading the series right now, and Snape is downright sadistic, all but threatening to poison poor Neville's toad, etc. The movies made him far too nice.

I figured it was because in real life, abuse is often ignored and nothing bad happens to the abusers. Coming from someone who was emotionally abused growing up.

I get that, but I feel like more people should take responsibility in changing that, and I think people that work with children deffinitely have a responsibility in that, in my opinion, which Rowling fits under.

plus its not like it was just emotional, theres an entire scene where petunia tries to hit harry in the head with a frying pan, and not a halfhearted swat, she swung hard.

Skarne Canius The fact that they made him sleep under the stairs, revealed in the very beginning, had me unsettled. I really don't like it when someone in a seat like JK Rowling is, to set standards for children to look to, send terrible messages about what is okay. I mean, Harry was sent home at the end of the school year even though everyone knew he was being abused.

I never said it was just emotional. I was just using my abuse and that my abusers never got punished was an example of it being realistic.

I have never wanted to punch someone in the face more than Severus Snape. Especially at that moment.

It was like poorly written fanfic

It was a bit strange, to be honest xD But I get why it was included. It showed that everything had to happen the way it happen to get the end we all know, the death of Voldemort. Harry realised that, and so he watched it, because he had to, so he wont blame himself later.

I hate the book so much I didn't enjoy it

Right, but I would argue that Snape is a grown adult and Draco was a child. And J.K. Rowling puts all the forgiveness on Snape, while condemning Malfoy. I'm not saying he is a perfect character, or even that he was a good person. BUT he was a child. Who was given almost no choice in his actions. He was raised in a particular mindset, he was forced to work with Voldemort or risk putting his family in danger. He had never known any other way. And in the end he couldn't kill Dumbledore, and when he was finally given a way out of the world he had been raised in, he took it. And he grew and he became a good person. Snape was also raised in a bad situation. He was not given many choices. But even with the love and care of those around him, he chose to be a part of a group whose main feature was hate. He joined a hate group, and remained a part of that group. And when he was older, and had the chance to be free of it, he also left. But he didn't leave behind his selfishness, or his hatred. He was still cruel to children, and he still only cared about a woman who had actively told him that he was no longer a part of her life. He didn't change to care about the greater good, he was still only motivated by his selfish attentions toward Lily. Maybe he felt love at one point, but his feelings towards her were obsessive and damaging. And he didn't ever leave them behind even as he grew and had the option to become a better person. Malfoy did. Which is why I think Draco is a fascinating character, and why I think Snape is a bully.

ProblemsofaBookNerd it's not like Snape stalked her after she ended their friendship. I'm not saying he isn't selfish, like I said they were both bad, but Malfoy I believe was better off. Snape was poor, bullied and his parents did not love him. not to mention, Snape couldn't kill dumbledore either because he felt it was wrong, not because he lost his nerve in the last moment. he only agreed because it ended up being a mercy kill. just because Malfoy was a kid doesn't mean he wasn't bad at that time, and I found his explanation in this book kind of fan-servicy. Malfoy doesn't fully redeem himself until after the events of the main series. it honestly did not seem like he envied harry in that way in the books, just that he had been humiliated when harry, who he considered worse than him, rejected his "friendship", and Harry associated himself with everything Malfoy was taught to despise.

Delphi Voldemort, it makes me laugh. Yes, I understand that Draco was a child in the books. But that just explains WHY he's an asshole, it doesn't excuse him.

@Delphi Voldemort Because Draco was a freaking CHILD who did not cause anyone's death. Snape was an adult who was directly responsible for the demise of the Potters. Have you even read the series even once? Or even seen the movies at least ? Geez

@@gummichoco Draco was a selfish bully and probably cowardly but he was not evil and certainly not a murderer. Just compare him to Tom Riddle. He had killed at least 3 people before he came of age , tortured a kid and slaughtered a rabbit. Draco fainted when Voldemort killed the muffle studies teacher. He lowered his wand at Dumbledore. I suspect his attacks on the students in half blood prince were half hearted as well. He never wanted to kill DUMBLEDORE. He did not identify Harry at the manor and stopped Goyle from killing Harry in the room of requirement. These are not the actions of an evil person.

He also let Harry face Quirrel...I mean come on, those tasks were all passed by 1st years...hmmmm

I totally agree with this. Alan Rickman made Snape much more sympathetic as a character. But I also think the movies left out a lot of Snape's worst offenses, and then cut some of James' redemption stuff. In general the movies just make Snape much less of a terrible person than he is in the books, so I can understand people who have only seen the movies feeling defensive about him.

🤣🤣🤣 exactly!!

Will Rivera you will literally never find me arguing Dumbledore was a pure character either. He’s up there on my list of manipulative characters who mistreats students. But besides that, an abusive childhood does not forgive an abusive adulthood, it just creates context. You know who else grew up in an abusive, unforgiving, cruel environment? Harry Potter. And yet he managed to not take his rage out on others, he managed to grow up accepting and loving instead of bigoted and hateful. I don’t deny Snape his nuance, I deny him forgiveness because at no point did he earn it. His hatefulness towards students can’t be forgiven because a woman spurned him when he was 17. Especially when that woman spurned him after he called her a slur and buddied up with people who hated her for the makeup of her blood. I think James was an awful teenager who grew out of it. I think Snape was a mistreated teenager who never grew past bitterness and decided to take out his rage on defenseless children who were supposed to be under his care. Children being exposed to abuse unnecessarily isn’t a way to build character. It’s a sign that a particular adult should not have contact with children.

@@ProblemsofaBookNerd There is some credence to the fact that Snape did not handle his bitterness productively. However you cannot compare he and Harry. Their childhoods while both traumatic were different. Harry despite it all still had people that cared about him. Dumbledore watched over Harry his whole life. Once Harry met Ron he had a family. He knew love always. Snape it isnt so clear. He never had love. Even his love for Lily was more of an infatuation with her because she was the first and possibly only person who showed him love. Also what students did he mistreat? Within the realm of an unforgiving school with trap rooms, forbidden forest detentions, exposure to danger constantly... I mean he was a jerk. However he was competent. A competent teacher who happens to be strict and disagreeable is more valuable for a school than an incompetent one who is nice (lookin at you Hagrid). By the standards of the school Snape was no more horrible than Moody or Dumbledore himself who allowed Harry to compete in the Triwizard tournament for example. Neville became so brave through all his trauma. For all you know this tough love is just what he needed having been raised by his granny so long. All the evidence for Snape being evil or even a bad person is faulty. Unlikable and a grouch.. sure.

Will Rivera He threatened the life of Neville’s toad as a motivator, which is blatantly awful. He openly ignored bullying amongst his students unless it benefitted him to point it out. He ridiculed Hermione and joined in with bullying of her appearance to the point that she permanently altered how she looked. This isn’t a competent teacher, this is a bully with some knowledge. Also, while Snape didn’t find a family at school, comparing Dumbledore watching over Harry to having a loving family is laughable. Dumbledore was involved in Harry’s life from afar, and his involvement was strictly to raise Harry until he was the right age to die. That’s not love, that’s manipulation. Yes, Harry found people who cared about him in school after a childhood of abuse. A childhood Snape constantly throws in his face, despite the fact that they both came from unfortunate circumstances and families that were cruel. Snape also finds Lily at school, a person who cares about him. In response, Snape makes friends with people in the wizarding community who despise his best friend and he loses that friendship by California his friend a slur. I compare Harry and Snape because they both had similar opportunities, but Harry grows in spite of the abuse of his childhood to find love and Snape embraces hate and chances away those who care about him. His life was awful, like I said, but it doesn’t excuse being such a terrible teacher that he was also one of his students’ GREATEST FEARS in a world where far greater horrors exist.

@@ProblemsofaBookNerd I didnt say Harry had a loving home. I said he had people that cared about his well being. More than that he grew up with an ideal. Yes the Dudleys were horrible to him but they certainly loved one another and so Harry grew up at the very least with some concepts of family, expressions of love, civility, affection, politeness. Traits Snape would never pick up in those early crucial childhood years with his (heavily implied physically) abusive father and mentally broken mother. Also let's look at the typical age for Hogwarts students 11-17 Yes 1-10 is important but not so much that you can extrapolate out the next 7 years of personality and identity development. Teenage years are especially important. Yes Snape chose his group but what choice did they have? They were in rival houses and his hated nemesis had a group of bullies next to him to protect him. I don't see how he had that many options given his general lack of people skills and unpopularity. Besides he hated muggles because of his fathers bigoted nature towards magic. With those death eater types he could at least cling to that anger and justify his hatred for muggles which was always his anger at his bigot father. Snapes boggart would be his father. I wonder if anyone has asked Jo this? Anyway I'm sure Snape at many times in his childhood regretted his own existence something I don't think Harry experienced before finding the truth of his parents and the prophecy. But see thats the point even when he found that out the power of love brought him back. His parents died protecting him. His life had value. Who loved Severus? Anyone at all? Mayyyyybe mum? He had no real friends. I can see why Dumbledore trusted him always and why Harry called Snape the bravest man he knew. Snape probably loved Dumbledore like a father. It probably crushed his heart to murder Dumbledore. In him Snape saw his purpose. His ideal. His mentor. The man who granted him a second chance and saw value in him. It's why he was so distraught by being called a coward by Harry. For that moment he lost restraint. He had just done the bravest thing a man could do. Keep to his word and honor the wishes of the man he adored and loved even. Let's get it straight Snape saved a few characters asses more than once and apt readers will confirm this. He shined when it mattered. It's just a frog dude. He probably had the antidote in his pocket and even if not they live in a world where Voldemort is rising, families are dying and being tortured. You shouldn't be coddling these students into wazarding snowflakes. Toughen then up so when the time comes they can pull that sword out of the hat and slice off the head of the snake that torments them. Of course its Harry that's the real hero. But its important to understand how Harry was able to put on his hero hat and what forced Snape to feel shame in wearing his. Snape hated himself probably till his dying breath. His last act was to remember the eyes of the woman he never stopped loving. His ideal. She represented everything he saw as good in life. Hope, warmth, love, friendship, potential. I don't think theres a character in HP as full of regret as Snape. For that he always protected Harry even if he didn't like Harry. He is only human..of course in his teenage humiliation he clung to the last shred of dignity he could muster in the situation.. his Slytherin mantra. A mantra he never believed in. Snape was no bigot. He disliked muggles possibly but definitely hated bigoted ones if only because of his father.

@@ProblemsofaBookNerd thanks for this conversation btw :)

Abusive but quite good? What? Snape actually IS horrible in the books. I'm rereading them right now. He just threatened to poison poor Neville's toad.

They are not remotely the same situation? Snape didn't get redeemed, that's the point. He was still a bastard and a bully to children to the day he died. He was also in his thirties while he did absolutely unforgivably terrible stuff. Draco was a child raised in an abusive situation and showed clear signs of not being ok with what his family was doing in the last few books. He was redeemed. He did not grow up to bully children. That's the difference. One of them actually got redemption, Snape just remained an asshole who did a good thing one time, and still only did that one good thing for his own personal gain.

What personal gain could he get from killing Dumbledore to make sure Draco wouldn't have to? Or making the potion that prolonged Dumbledore's life? Or turning traitor against Voldemort the moment he realized Lily was endangered? Or delivering Harry's message to the order of the Phoenix when Harry thought Sirius was in trouble? Or going back to being Voldemort's spy after the dark lord returned? Or showing dislike and disbelief at the idea of Dumbledore keeping Harry alive only to die at the right moment? Or saving Harry's life several times? And you're right, Severus Snape was different from Draco Malfoy. Snape was raised as a half-blood child to an overbearing, emotion deprived mother, bullied by Gryffindor students that were praised by everyone as being heroes just because he was in Slytherin and found study of the dark arts interesting, forced to join a gang of future deatheaters because they were the only ones that treated him with any form of acceptance, lost any chance of maintaining a relationship (romantic or otherwise) with the one true friend and love he ever had after he made one mistake in anger like many people do, lost that friend forever when they were murdered, regretted her loss and his mistakes forever and became deprived of any feeling, kept a close eye on a hogwarts professor that was trying to revive Voldemort, gave fake potion to a Ministry spy that was torturing students, tried to guide Draco to keep him from facing Voldemort's wrath, was treated as an outcast his whole life, and treated like he could never be anything other than a villain. Meanwhile, Draco was raised to be blood prejudiced and had no problem with that belief until it meant killing someone and bullied everyone because of his superiority ideals; not because he was jealous of their friendship. Additionally, Draco shows no signs of abusive parentage as we see his mother deeply cares for and loves him to the point of regretting their connection to Voldemort and his father never once talked in a manner to suggest that he ever abused him either verbally or physically and even showed that his love for Draco outweighed his loyalty to the Dark Lord. As for the bullying, yes, Snape was a jerk that was definitely guilty of favouritism; that is undeniable. he was exceedingly cruel when pointing out mistakes his students made and punished half the students for the most minor of infractions. I'm not saying he was a saint, but he also wasn't that bad a teacher either. When teaching Harry Occlumency, Snape clearly outlined what Harry needed to do and gave him the assignment to practice every night in order for him to get the skill down. Harry only fails to learn this because he refused to practice. When teaching the Defense Against the Dark Arts, his understanding and passion for learning the trade caused him to be one of the best teachers Hogwarts had in the subject as the only thing keeping Harry from admitting Snape was good at it was his personal disdain. And in terms of his potions lessons, yes he was exceedingly brutal in teaching the subject, and his favouritism caused mainly Slytherins to pass, but with the result that almost anyone who made it through his class had exceptional skills in the subject. Now yes, the result of his teaching don't justify the methods he used or the treatment he gave students; but he's still better than Umbridge. Additionally, understanding his hard life and past, it becomes easy to see that his favouritism and harsh methods are derived from the fact that only Slytherins accepted him for himself and left him bitter and disgruntled. He was harsh to Neville because he, in Snape's mind, was incompetent and needed an extra push to do a good job. However, the loss of his only love and friend left Snape without the compassion and sympathy to help Neville properly. In terms of Harry, I'll admit he's not much better. he allowed a grudge he felt for James and the Marauders to affect his treatment of Harry because Harry seemed so much like James, but if you look closely you begin to notice something. We know that Lily found James' arrogance and chauvinistic tendencies and prejudices disdainful and unattractive. It wasn't until James' began to mellow out that Lily fell in love with him. Snape knows this and was a first-hand recipient of James' flaws (James bullied and tormented Snape using the spells Snape made up for himself which I'm convinced were made to protect himself from the Marauders) and loved Lily. So doesn't it make sense that Snape would harp on Harry to ensure that Harry wasn't arrogant or a show off like his father since Snape know's Lily wouldn't stand for a son like that? Additionally, we know that several people viewed it like Harry enjoyed his celebrity status and Harry hated that people viewed it like that because he was famous because his parent's died. So doesn't it also make sense that if Snape thought this way, he would have more disdain for Harry because he'd think the kid was belittling Lily's death? It certainly makes sense since just about every instance of Snape mistreating Harry revolved around his celebrity status and the idea that Harry didn't think the rules applied to him. Again, it doesn't excuse the biased teaching and bullying, but just because someone isn't nice isn't a good reason to say they are evil or irredeemable. Now, for the big topic, it's clear that he loves Lily. A Patronus changes to take a form respective to the person you love and Snape's was a doe like Lily. Snape's saying the word "Always" outlines that, while he may not have liked James and dislikes Harry because he thinks Harry is too much like his father, he would ALWAYS protect and watch over her son because he LOVED her. He was not obsessed or guided by lust. How do we know this? Because Merope was someone who was motivated by obsession and lust and she used a love potion to force the person she liked to be with her. Additionally, if Snape was obsessed with Lily, why didn't he make to get rid of James after the two got together? Why didn't Snape find some way to make Lily his own? Nothing Snape ever did show an obsession with Lily Evans. Snape stood up to Voldemort to have him spare Lily's life out of LOVE. Dumbledore confirmed that Snape loved Lily. Snape's memories confirm he loved her. Harry himself recognized this and gained a new respect for him. His whole reason for wanting to catch Black was because he thought Sirius was the traitor that caused Lily's death. With all this together, it becomes clear that, if anyone is a victim of circumstances, Severus Snape is. He was labeled as a freak and a villain just for having different hobbies, didn't have that great a mother, lost his one friend because of a mistake, was forced into the wrong crowd by peer pressure and social rejection when he didn't even agree with the ideals of his peers, and is still never recognized for any of the good he did. There is not a single moment that Snape did anything out of purely selfish motives. Yes he was not a great person when interacting with others, but he acted out of selfless bravery and showed a value for the lives of others throughout the book. So far as the series has shown, Dumbledore is the only one he killed. Given this, it's impossible to say that Snape is beyond redemption, let alone unredeemed.

Aside from that, Draco definitely comes off as being more of a bully than Snape. Sure, Snape embarrassed Students, called out their mistakes n front of everyone, and openly mocked their flaws and ineptitude. But he never attacked someone's bloodline or family save for once when he called Lily a mudblood in anger and he immediately regretted it. But aside from that one instance, his taunts were nothing more than mocking Harry's celebrity status or chastising people for being bad at potions or spellcasting. That's still bullying, and like I said, I'm not excusing that, but let's look at Draco. He openly taunts students, takes points away for illegitimate reasons when in the inquisitorial squad, constantly insults the Weasley's for being poor, insult's Mrs Weasley for being plump, degrades Mr Weasley constantly, insults and degrades Hermione for being Muggle-born, openly jokes about and degrades the sacrifice Harry's parents made to save his life, spreads rumors and lies to make people look bad, and even curses people. He practically laughed about Cedric Diggory's death! He laughed at another kid's death! And that isn't because "he was pressured and abused to think that way." He did this stuff out of his own free will while being happily supportive of his beliefs. He doesn't change his beliefs until he starts to experience the true horrors of following Voldemort and realizes that he's not a killer. That is what redeems him, he realizes that he's not as brutal or merciless as those around him. After this, he begins to rethink his prejudices as it led to the horrors he witnessed, but prior to that moment is not excused as being "deceived by upbringing or circumstance." Yes, he was raised with these ideas, but he was perfectly fine with them until killing was involved. If he was forced to follow them like you say, then he would show apprehension from the beginning in some way shape or form. But he didn't. When looking at the story, it is clear that, prior to his epiphany, Draco was a spoiled, pampered rich boy that combined his bratty nature with the lies that he was superior to all others and that bloodlines reign supreme. He was definitely redeemed, but when you look at it, Snape only acted as a bully because he had faced persecution in his life and lost the one person that mattered; thus he had a reason to act that way that doesn't excuse it but allows you to sympathize with it. Draco doesn't have that reason behind his bullying throughout books 1-5 but does turn around starting in book 6 and into book 7. But we need to understand something, Draco being a bully in the first five books to such a high degree is of his own choice and beliefs. A person can change, but that change cannot undo the things they've done in the past. Now understanding this, I would still say that Draco is more than forgiven and redeemed as he truly changes his ways and becomes a better person. But because of the fact that Draco was worse than Snape with less of a reason than Snape had to be a bully, it is impossible to say that Draco can be redeemed or was redeemed without consenting that Snape is also. Snape was not nearly as cruel or bullying as Draco, Snape had a reason to be that way that is sympathetic, and Snape still managed to do good prior to, while, and after bullying students. This is shown constantly and so, evidence proves that Snape and Draco are either both redeemed, or neither redeemed. Pick one or the other, you can't mix and match.

I agree with what you said, I would also add Draco was pleased with the idea of killing Dumbledore and gaining honour for the Malfoy family at first. He also didn't have an issue with Katie and Ron or any other students dying because of his schemes. Remember his boastings on the train to other Slytherins.

@@mysticalarchives7821 ... I'm 2 years late lol, but yes you're correct!

As a huge Snape fan, I can actually see why people hate him. He's a terrible person. Honestly, such an atrocious person I'd probably slap if given the chance, BUT he is one HELL of a phenomenal character. Absolutely beautifully written and developed, very complex, and quite relatable. Which is why I love him so much, as a character, not as a person. XD

Amen to that! I couldn't agree more with what you have said!

Which comes off as so cheap.

Allison Walker I agree, it wouldn't be satisfying story telling. A revelation at the end of book 7 still wouldn't have been enough. Snape just isn't written as a good person in any of the books but, short of Rowling rewriting the series, I need to find some justification for Harry and Ginny to choose, Albus Severus. Snape working against Voldemort with Dumbledore, that is threaded throughout the books. It is just that there is nothing leading up to Harry naming his son after Snape. As a character I think Snape is more interesting as a terrible person working on the side of the angels, but Rowling obviously wanted him to be some sort of hero. Harry's opinion goes from seeing Snape being killed whilst he hated him: to naming his second son after him only 8-years later. The entirety of that transition takes place after Snape dies. In itself it is a basis for a short story. The aftermath of the battle. Harry going through Dumbledore's and Snape's diaries and possessions, trying to work out two people that he suddenly doesn't know as well as he thought he did.

I agree. On the story Voldemort killed his father after being rejected by him and ot showed his rage from that encounter and decision to kill all muggles because of it.

Thanks!

Rainbow Phoenix I know, right? It feels good to know that others see the stupidity.

Hi, I'm going to disagree with you on this a bit. So, Snape emotionally abused basically every student under his care that wasn't Slytherin. It was his duty as a professor to treat students well and encourage them, and instead he became Neville's worst fear. If a professor is a student's WORST FEAR that professor should be fired. Additionally, he ruined Remus Lupin's life over a schoolboy feud that had ended years earlier. So, no. I don't think he protected the students at Hogwarts. Also, Draco is a child. That is the end of my defense of him. If Snape had done any of the garbage fire stuff he did when he was a child, and then when he grew up he apologized and became a good person? I wouldn't have a Snape issue. But Snape died a self-righteous adult who emotionally abused children. Draco grew up, realized the ways he had been raised were wrong, and fixed the issue. Because the decisions he made were the decisions of a child. And that is why Snape is my least favorite character of all time, and why Draco is in no way worse or equal to him.

ProblemsofaBookNerd ah well Everyone has aholes as teachers sometimes xD

Harry s..sempra him in return. That should have been a 4th unforgivable curse. Harry doesn't show any remorse either. What's your point ?

Snape was always one of fave characters as well. I dont understand the point that "one good deed doesnt forgive all the terrible thing he's done" ONE?! Seriously? First he's tries to save Harry's family (granted, just because he's own selfish(?) reasons), he betrays Voldermort before he's vanguished, and then becomes a double agent and risks his own life. He saves Harry on many occations... Yes, he's dick as a teacher but I dont think he's behavior is so scarring. He treets everyone just as badly, except Slytherins and Harry, but he's got a good reason for that, like what James, Harry's father did to him in school. All the students dislike him, but only one that he's "scarring" is Neville, but just because Neville is really insecure, and he's pretty much afraid all the other teachers as well, and some of the students too. That is before Neville becomes more courageous. And the other thing, that Snape didnt really love Lily, it was lust... They knew each other many years, they met when Snape was having one the hardest time of his life, and he finally found a friend in Lily, who also felt kinda alone, with her being only witch in her family and her sister being jealous of that and despising her. I dont think after having that kind of relationship with someone, you can feel just "lust" for them. They were really close, they were best friends. So I think all and all, Snape is a really good, brave, strong and smart character. Yes he has faults which make him even more interesting and relatable.

"He treets everyone just as badly, except Slytherins and Harry, but he's got a good reason for that, like what James, Harry's father did to him in school" Are you serious? For you, it's a good reason to torture a boy (who didn't even know what his father did BTW) for 6 YEARS because his father was mean to him?? Wow, I call that an explanation, not "a good reason". And he didn't want to save Harry's family, he wanted to save LILY and told Voldemort he could kill her husband and baby if he spared her. What a good, brave and strong character...

Regina Poppins Nobodys perfect. Of course he is flawed but he's also human. Harry looks very similar to his dad and Snape had no idea how Harry was raised which is why he treats him as he does. He ( falsely) assumes Harry is just like his dad, something which Harry only encourages when he misbehaves etc. Like if Harry actually sat down and studied one of his potions texts it might actually help...

exactly! I simplified some things and left a lot out because my answer was quite long as it was. and in my opinion, all things considered, the good and the bad, Snape was more of a hero than a villain.

I'm so glad that my hatred of Snape makes some people happy haha :)

vinícius bastos yeah what he did. He emotionally abused children in his care. No excuses.

The dude lived the most intense double life ever conceived, risking his neck for his entire adult life by infiltrating a group of the most dangerous people in the world, in order to gain their trust as well as the confidence of their leader, who is basically Hitler on steroids, which he only did in order to spy for the good guys and give them valuable information on their machinations, wich led him to be forced to MURDER the only man who trusted him and knew of the extent of his actions to maintain his cover, only to then be KILLED by a freakin' snake, whilst everybody still believed him to be a traitor. But yeah, I guess he should be hated because he was kind of a dick to Neville for a bit. Whatever.

I'm sorry??? He was "kind of" a dick? I'm not sure you've been reading the same series as me, mate. Neville's boggart was SNAPE. His fucking teacher. Whereas Harry's was a dementor (the epitome of fear). Neville found his teacher, in a place where the students should be physically and mentally looked after, more terrifying than the woman who tortured his parents into insanity. Not to mention the fact that he purposefully probed into Harry's deepest, most awful memories (including Cedric's death, which had been plaguing Harry for the entire book!) during occlumency lessons. Or that he laughed at and humiliated Hermione, and discouraged her from reaching her full potential. (haha meanwhile when Harry humiliated HIM by looking at HIS memories, it was oh so awful and Snape stopped the lessons that could seriously help Harry, and also threw heavy jars at him.) Or that he threatened Harry with veritaserum, which would have forced (I repeat, FORCED) him to spill his biggest secrets in front of the whole school, when he simply had a 'hunch' (an incorrect one) that Harry was stealing polyjuice potion ingredients. But yeah, I guess Snape was only a little bit of a dick. Whatever.

vinícius bastos don't bother, you won't be able to talk reason and logic to these new age babies. They think their reactions are paramount - if THEY feel fear towards a teacher obviously the teacher is a bad person. It's so weird to think that because I can remember in High School I had this one teacher I absolutely HATED because he scared the shit out of me - I actually tried switching out of his class - and looking back I feel so bad about making him feel like I didn't like him, because the problem was actually my anxiety around certain types of people - it had nothing to do with him, but everything to do with me. Snape is clearly just a very strict teacher and you'll have no problem with him if you just follow the rules as you ought to. All the teachers have different personalities and by interacting with them all you learn to deal with different types of people. I get that this is a fantasy novel, but I have to roll my eyes every time fans get too lost in the fantasy of Hogwarts thinking these teachers are here just to rub the students backs.

Artbug I see what you're saying but I think teachers are supposed to support students as well as teach them. The things I've listed are pretty horrible, and you'd think it was awful if a parent did it so why not a teacher? Especially considering Hogwarts is a boarding school, so the teachers have more responsibilities. I disagree that I'm getting "too lost in the fantasy". Fantasy, unless it's something psychedelic like Alice in Wonderland, is always somewhat based in reality to give it some foundation of realism, however small. The characters may be wizards but they have the psychology of any human. I've had strict teachers, but none of them have ever done the things Snape did in the books. Also he wasn't really strict in general. He's great to the Slytherins and shitty to the Gryffindors and probably the other houses too.

He's a fine character. Written in an in-depth and fascinating way. But people who praise his actions frequently refuse to see the fact that he is not a good man in the context of the series. A well-written character, fine. But an overall terrible person. I can praise JKR's writing of the character while also having a deep need to punch Snape as hard as I possibly can in the face.

I'm not talking about how "well written" Snap is. "overall terrible person" is still a moral judgment on him as an individual. Pretty much everyone does terrible things in these books, including Harry and some of the other "good" guys, just like in real life even the most perfect saint does terrible things from time to time. We'll entirely fallible, it's part of the human condition. Snape is neither "good" nor "terrible", he is plenty of both, which makes him real and not some one-dimensional stereotype of either.

Again, I'm talking about how "well-written" he is. I'm talking about the nature of his morality. It is neither black nor white, like anyone else. Calling him a "terrible person" is quite dismissive considering all of the other good things he did.

what i love about the hp series is that there's no good or bad people...just people with flaws but some fans cannot understand that

Yeah Voldy wasn't a bad person he was just flawed... Or the Death Eaters raping and murdering out of pure spite and bigotry weren't bad people they were just flawed...

SPEW!! Of course that is another great example I could have mentioned. She is so about standing up for those who have been treated poorly, even when Ron is less supportive of her as he was near the beginning of SPEW. But she kept going and she convinced him! Because she's passionate about standing up for those who she sees being treated poorly.

It's so funny we had so many of the exact same reactions to this play!! Oh dear, what a mess of a story honestly xD

I think it's safe to say that if you were in dumbledores shoes there would be no Wizarding world left to fawn over.

Additionally, I'd like to state for the record that I consider myself a sjw, I don't care if the term has been warped into an insult; I think standing up for what's right is always the best option. But I refuse to shame snape and dumbledore for doing what they had to, and doing so in way that was clearly dictated by how actions out of their control molded their personalities. Neither character had much time for personal reform or counseling while putting into motion a 20 year plan (with fuck loads of contingencies) to save the earth and every human (magic or otherwise) on it.

...Hello Humans I'm kind of interested in what you said about Harry being a Hocrux...that anyone who had to live with him would go insane. Do you think that being Voldemort's Hocrux had an effect on the people around him like that? I've never quite thought of it that way before.

@@KenzieScott54 if that was the case it'd affect Ron n Hermione most,it didn't

YUP YUP YUP. EXACTLY.

Glad I was able to bring up some stuff that you thought was interesting! I in no way ever want to tell someone they aren't right to enjoy something, but I really want to be able to talk more with people about the things they did think were done well since I found so many things I didn't like!

marinlini I like the fact that you both are right, and that makes Snape so awesome character. Depending on the perspective, he can be looked at as a tortured, heroic hero, or a bad, sad and cruel person, that desperately tries to redeem himself, still obsessing about the woman that his former master killed... The fact that some people like him and some hate him just comes with the idea of this character, and it's cool. Same with Draco. The morality of these two can be discussed, but nobody can deny both were terrible persons at some point of their lives and caused much pain to others.

Bruh PREEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAACH!!!!!!!! She honestly was just another Snape hater

Thank you so much!! I think a lot of the detail I've remembered comes from some of the other critiques of the play I have seen pop up here and there. I tried to avoid it prior to filming my discussion, but it was hard to avoid entirely! But I will say that HP may be the only thing in the world I have this level of detailed knowledge of. It is interesting Albus was your favorite character! I feel like I didn't talk about him as much in this discussion despite the fact that he was the main character. What stuff did you like about him in particular? I think he had a lot of good elements, I just don't feel I was quite as struck by his character as I was by Scorpius.

I agree. Queerbaiting is often used so easily n a reason guys still feel scared to express emotions, healthy guys friendship struggles to exist. Loving your best guy friend as a guy is completely normal,not queerbaiting. It irritates me same way when every boy girl friendship is shipped. People Really Really undermine platonic love n how beautiful it is

Having been abused in your childhood is no excuse to torment other people for more than 20 years. Harry did grew up in an absuive household as well and he never went about treating others as beneath him because he knew exactly how it felt. He was kind, chivalrous and helpful. Harry said and wished horrible things to Draco, but that feeling was mutual due to Draco's behaviour as the spoiled brat and pureblood supremacist that he was back then. I don't believe that Draco never grew out of his behaviour (if we regard the Cursed Child as canon, we even get proof that he redeemed himself properly). Snape is a tragic character, yes, absolutely, and he helps to defeat the Dark Lord by his sacrifice but that doesn't negate all the horrible things he has done to his students over the years.

D0MiN0 Dont forget the time he beat the living crap out of Draco with the Weasly twins..... to the point his knuckles were stained with blood. Aahh, the chivalry. But what I mean to say is people aren't one dimensionally good or evil. Harry did good stuff more than Snape but the latter could have turned out much worse.(like actively seeking revenge on Lily and James after their ship set sail or letting go of helping Harry after Dumbledore was not their to keep an eye on him)

I highly doubt Neville likes Snape. Neville's just a decent person.

I definitely feel like this play was far more based on the movies than the books! Actually, that would explain a lot characterization wise for this entire play...

Ooooh, I would love to do a video like that! It's something I rant about enough that I know I would have plenty to say :D

Snape is all gray. He died to save the wizarding world and in the end he was on the good side all because of love. Dont say he was obsessed because his patronus was a doe which means love. If thats obsession than is tonks obsessed with Remus? Is harry obsessed with james? James was a horrible person. He might have been on the right side but he bullied lotsbof people and not just snape. And he only bullied snape because he said he wanted to be in Slytherin. Maybe snape would be likeable if james wasnt a bullying dick. But snape did bully children and his past didnt excuse that. So dont say he's a vile person but dont say he's a great hero.