A friendly rant about cycling industry stuff, A little thought about Wiggle CRC going into administration, the BikeBiz awards, and the development of service centric cycling venues.
Bloody hell, a bike shop that actually gets it. I won't go to my LBS and pay £75 an hour for a 17 year old with no clue to work on my bike. On top of that they charge top whack for replacement parts. They have a revolving door of senior mechanics that leave when their barely above minimum wage becomes not enough to support an adult lifestyle (kids, house etc). The saving grace is around here there are a few ex shop mechanics who set up mechanic shops in vans, garages and in one case 7.5 ton ex post office truck. This works great, they are great mechanics who operate mainly on reputation of service and they take a much larger proportion of the money because their overheads are lower and are not forced to work all weekend. They often attend local cycling events and offer service as well as keeping relationships with local clubs which helps build their business. This does sometimes mean all their customers are higher end and the people stuck paying the local bike shops for crap service are the parents for children's bikes etc
Spot on here. I employed the services of The Cycle Clinic in Suffolk to fit a Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed groupset to my 19 year old George Longstaff bike. I chose this particular bike shop as they are a Campagnolo service specialist and also have a good reputation as wheel builders. As id had several wheelsets built up by them superbly it made sense to employ them to refurbish my bike. As far as i know they dont usually sell complete bikes but rather thrive repairing bikes and wheelbuilding. +1 for cycle service centres
Couldn't agree more. Have begun the journey, here in Australia, of starting my own bike workshop business. Currently just working from my garage, but building up my customer base. My goal is to do servicing, bike fits and have it as a coffee stop for your sunday riders, etc. I feel you get better relationships with your customers and it makes working more enjoyable, rather than the whole retail side of things. Have been doing bike retail for 11 years and it's time to narrow down to what i love about bikes.
Enlightening and thoughtful as ever Paul. If the move away from retail bike shops results in high quality service/advice/maintenance/bike-building then I would support it. We need the choice still and independents help keep the big chains on their toes. It doesn't have to be a race to the bottom.
Unfortunately there's no decent mechanics at our local. Last time I was in there the mechanic was boasting to a client they don't need a torque wrench when working on carbon because "I can't do it by feel". Oh dear.
Shops drove me away with repeated horrible service and arrogance. I watched a video the other day where the topic was something like Top Suggestions from Professional Mechanics.....they drifted to listing things to make their job easier and lower expectations for services. I still try to give local shops my business but I won't be guilted in to anything.
I had a bike shop in my town telling me they had done work they had not and gone out to rip me off, then i was shocked at how easy some things had been to fix once i got the basic tools.
@@robinbreeds9217 There's nothing on a bicycle that you shouldn't be able to do yourself with a little research and the correct tool. And you don't have to buy expensive park tools for occasional use, there's plenty of much cheaper equivalents that work fine. But Shhhhh it's a secret they don't want you to know.
I rarely use a mechanic or go to get my bike serviced. I look at the price of the tool vs the cost of service, I get the tool and do it myself. But I understand people who have no mechanical inclination and I understand the need for a service. If someone asks me to fix something I tell them to get a professional to do it. Don't want to take a mechanics lifeblood away from them. But I don't like it when mechanics can't be trusted to do a good job.
@@edwarding4355 same for me unless it wheel related or I'm on a bike tour. The piss poor service I've received with wheel related work from my local shops has turned me away from even going in for simple purchases. Pure laziness
For so many customers, one of the biggest reasons for shopping online has been the crappy service / attitudes of local bike shops. Our current one is good on both of those, but is very small, has little selection and only 2 brands, neither of which I'd buy. I suspect for some it's also a kickback at the manufacturers trying to force things on us - want a new rim brake bike? Tough. Want cabled gears you can maintain easily? Tough. Screw 'em. I'm now my own independent mechanic and parts stockist. eBay has provided boxes of parts for my current groupsets, and I have no interest whatsever in the latest plastic fantastic, disc braked, electronic overpriced tat.
mechanic at a small bike shop in beverley here (yorkshire) literally have a store 300 yds down the road owned by specialized (one of the few in the uk?) and we are still in the retail side with service too but we're finding supporting people who are wanting ebikes but dont want the worry of having to deal with companies if these bikes go wrong. we're finding more and more customers coming to us for ebike servicing and big companies sending customers to us for warrenty work. and these customers are more than happy to pay for our services. alot of the time i think it's just being honest with your customers and not pushing all the marketing bullshit that these massive companies are trying to force on everyone (looking at you cannondale, your sales training is literally fucking predetory on cyclingprophet). at the end of the day we're here to help and the more we do the more customers we gain :D
It was Wiggle/CRC shipping to Australia that drove the first wave of service only and mobile bike service I can remember hearing about and that was, what 10 years ago? UK seemed so wedded to retail even though noone ever had anything in stock except places like Condor and then would still use distros and make customers wait days and days for parts instead of getting something shipped next day from online for less. RU-vid also massive resource for the DIYer like me who just never uses bike shops for anything.
My local bike store in Melbourne is called ‘Neutral Service’. They do bespoke builds and are dealers for Time, Factor, Flanders. It’s a unique model with real legs.
It all depends on the shop IMO. Some shops charge 80€ to change a cassette and a chain.... It's just insane. Ive seen bikes for sale at shops for 1500€ more than the msrp because they changed the saddle and bar tape so it was "custom"... 😂
2 KEY points in this: 1. QUALITY service. I've been to 3 of the 5 shops in my town and ALWAYS gotten worse results from "professional mechanic" than if I'd done the job my self, and I'm definitely no pro. 2. Giant is running some ENORMOUS margins of they can afford to do zero % interests on stuff they've already discounted.
the one thing to factor in is they would prefer to take the L on old stock than try and dispose of it. dumping costs are expensive, and you get zero back. selling even at 50% is still a loss, but not total.
I buy everything online and do all my own maintenance. Over time I’ve built up a collection of tools and can tackle almost any job. The only thing I’ve never done is build a wheel from scratch. However, I don’t work on anyone else’s bike in case anything goes wrong.
It is probably prudent for bicycle shops to focus on the service side of the business versus sales to keep the doors open. In my situation, I have to do most of my own maintenance since the nearest bicycle shop is over an hour drive away. As a result, I have amassed a fair collection of tools, some of which are very specific to a particular industry standard. When you factor in time, gas and labor cost most tools I purchased still pay for themselves at the first use.
@@andrewgoddard3350 it depends on the shop. The bigger ones, for sure - and the smaller ones that are able to supply high profit small volume specialist stuff at a rate that overtakes workshop revenue. But that's not the case with a lot of smaller outfits.
it seems that during Covid pandemic, at least in Germany, many cyclists had to become mechanics, and now continue doing so... I like to do everything on my bikes on my own, and have all the tools needed, but really enjoy your channel, and can only salute you to your great work! Love your insights, in particular on some french frames 🙂. Hope you can still make a business aside from YT! All the best!
Yeah, the question though is: why? For me, it's been the waiting time until they could take care of me, and a too limited amount of things they'd do. Also, hard to find online, or misleading entries and not picking up the phone. So I did the math, lost time vs. doing it myself, and went your path.
Something like this happen to me. During covid I had to wait 1 week for a dropper post service. I'm not handy, didn't even know how to remove my wheels. But slowly I watch RU-vid and did the service myself slowly one afternoon. Next, pedals, headset overhaul, brake bleeding, suspension lowers, change tubless tyre, etc. I still go to a trusted mechanic for complicated stuff like fork damper rebuild service and shock service. Wheel truing
If I was a bike shop I would do custom builds based on my client needs so they are actually paying for my know-how. Stuff like frame size and type, fitting, handlebars, gear configuration, choice of tyres, materials, quality and cost and now possibly electric motors, batteries, belts... there is a lot going on in the industry right now that simply does not go through the head of a costumer looking for his first bike. A good bike is like a handcrafted article of clothing, it's just very personal.
Thanks for another "True as How it is" video. You make some great points, as bike shops going to more service oriented side of things. True, about how large a shop would need to be, inorder to have "Everything" (in stock). Perhaps moving more towards; build ups, repairs, general service, wheel maintenance, replace batteries, rider education, etc. etc. is the future? Great one Paul! *side note: rider education seems to be a big one here, -In the US, I know that many customers will purchase a bike, yet are never taught *how to lock it up!!, -Later when you see them come back with the front wheel only, it breaks your heart. -As to why a small amount of customer service was not given, just to properly lock up their purchase/investment costing thousands of dollars. -Correct hand signals to motorists is another one. Thanks again.
Bike mechanics charging customers twice the market / online price for a part is also a thing, and also a quick way to lose business. Best to adapt like you say. No way a customer is going to swallow 2x prices for replacement parts no matter how good the spannering is.
Spot on Paul, couldn't agree more. Got my first bike at a local shop, it was a nice bike but it was priced as told by the brand and the wrong size. Got a bikefit and the fitter said "I won't sell you a bike, I can't compete with the brands. If you want me to get you a bike, look it up online, buy it, deliver it with me and I will get it up and running for a 100.". That was back in 2015 and it got me thinking. Eversince I've bought my bikes where they are the cheapest, and went to good shops to get services I can't do myself. It's a win-win, I don't pay too much and the bikeshops get a decent margin. I do have to give some credit to Trek in this. I've run in some problems with one of my bikes (corroded fork) and the response from Trek was: go to a dealer to get it looked at. Sent some pictures, they responded: please go to a dealer. Asked if I could order a new part, response: the dealer can do that for you. They really, really, really wanted me to go to a dealer. Contacted a local dealer and he arranged a free replacement out of warranty, which is great. About Wiggle I'm not surprised. Being in the Netherlands it used to be a great option: dutch payment systems worked and prices where good. After the redesign of the site the payment option was gone, making it harder to order anything, so I haven't ordered anything there after the site changed.
As a cyclist, I really appreciate quality from a bike shop in these areas: - Mechanical - Diagnosing problems, good workmanship, and being able to complete complex work that I can't do at home. - Fitting - Knowledge of the biomechanics and ergonomics of cycling, and how to translate that into a good fit with comfortable touch points. - Retail - I think retail should still be a thing for local bike shops, even in competition with 'direct to consumer' or 'online marketplaces'. You can be certain that your LBS is carrying legit components that aren't going to fail you unexpectedly. 'DtC' is probably okay, with some research. Stick clear of Alibaba, Ebay, etc. Cyclists should be supporting the good local bike shops. If that means paying a small premium on retail items, do it.
Thank you for sharing a honest and open perspective of the bicycle industries situation and how the changes can impact both the retailers and the consumers for better or for worst
From Chattanooga, TN in US here. None of the local bike shops support any local cycling events. They used to years ago & it was great. Currently, no bike shop rides, no sponsored races or racers, and no lobbying for bike route safety.
You only have to look at the car industry to see how this is going. More and more manufacturers are going direct. They also don't hold stock of parts and neither does your independent garage. Everything is just in time supplied when needed and in the quantity needed from a centralised warehouse or through motor factors. My local bike shop has given up on stocking things because it's cheaper for them to buy on line from Wiggle and can get next day service. I feel that Madison will need to up its game and prices to compete as well. The other thing will be qualifying mechanics on electronic bikes, not just the mechanicals but also the electronics etc. Bike shops need to offer bike fit before purchase, coaching, fitness, rideouts and dogs dangly high quality service. Change , adapt or die.
Oh the whole mechanic education needs upheaval. Cyctec is woefully inadequate now. The government stopped supporting cycling apprenticeships too now. Real shame.
Good to hear someone in the industry talking about this. Honestly I been turning against LBS over the years. From the outside it looks like a bunch of guys who just want to make large margins on bikes and accessories and will only service bikes as a necessary evil of selling them. On social media you see guys defending this by saying the margins are too low for servicing... So? Raise your prices. I want to be able to get work done on my bike if I chose and this should be great for LBS as I am happy to pay whatever it costs. Otherwise you are getting zero of my cash.
What I have learnt about awards: Someone runs an award, people are asked to put them self forwards for one award or more. You pay for a table at the awards so you can see who wins. Everyone who paid for a table wins something. Certainly how it works in some industry, I wouldn't surprise me if it's the same or very similar in this one.
You are right about bike shop need to go to more service center. I have bikes with older model parts 2x 10, 1x11, mech disc, canti/ v brake parts, etc. And finding parts at the local shop is hot or miss when needed with amount of floor space and in store storage in back. Hard to be this way at some point with amount my local shop will have for parts of older models that really do not move when all the various electronics drivetrains, numerous chain ring sizes with mounting ways, tires, helmets, shoes, gps, clothing, small bits and misc parts, wheels, bb standards, etc that are common nowadays that takes up so much space which some that barely moves already. Parts for older bikes not a lot room left, if at all. Older parts have to go through places with national level disruption as they the storage space local/region will not have. There are now online shops that are now focusing on that part the market of parts for older bikes. LBS need to go from the retail driven to the service and community center type places. As you said rough period we are in we all adjusting to.
A really interesting insight into the business and where things are going. I like the frankness of the reality of the price and availability trade offs for online vs high street retail. I can see the bike shop of the future being - Mechanical service - Consulting services. Fitting services are a clear example but perhaps some others that aren’t explicitly tied to sales but a service fee. - Impulse retail. Simple spares and objects of desire. Kit, gadgets, toys 😏. - Possibly social space like coffee shop
I’ve used a few bike mechanics because either I’ve not had time or a specific tool, only to see them smash fuck out of a hub to get bearings out etc… so now try to do it all myself. There’s a huge variety of competence out there
I found a good mechanic that has fine skills. A pleasure to see him work smoothly. Even when he hammers a part out, seems very measured and using just enough brute force
You're more than right. I'm lucky enough to have the means to be able to spend reasonable money on a bike. Anyway I bought new my Focus and Cinelli. Now more than a few years ago. Still those two shops never kept in touch or reached out to me to propose me a new bike which I would have easily gone for. So for them was a one time thing and not a how could we engage this client over his cycling hobby.
So true. Retail has changed forever with the availability of on line shopping . Service and repair is a whole different story. However, I'm not entirely sure the market is big enough. A bike service centre possibly needs to also become a venue. I'm thinking bike café or similar. Some reason to go there and spend on a regular basis. Some way to make customers feel invested...
Great Saturday (Sunday watched) chat. Great views and totally agree. Need more bike shops offering a comunity with good advice more than those that have stuff.
I first came cross you when looking for somewhere local to me in the Isle of Man (yes Google thinks Cumbria is local to me) to actually go and check out a Pipedream ALICE bike. Eventually I got a frame set directly from them and they were so helpful especially as most places will not deliver to the Isle of Man. That said I found your perspective very interesting. we have4 bike shops on the island, the largest of which has a fantastic cafè and seems to be doing well with retail and service though the bikes are at the top end. Here in Port Erin we have the Erin bike hut which is retail service and bike hire. Nowadays they do haves a nice range of components so kudos to them but as you said it's easier and cheaper to get them from across on the mainland subject to delivery restrictions. In the winter I live in Florida and honestly it's simpler and cheaper just to buy what I want from one of the online retailers and chuck it in my checked bag when returning home - specially when I want weird stuff, surly corner bars, microShift etc. I fly with a bike all the time so it's no big deal. Your thoughts, from my perspective are spot on.👍
Great input about the real trend in the bike industry.. they lost their way with big ticket bikes catering to the rich and not the common day racer/cyclist. I stopped buying from a retail outlet because the prices became unreasonable bordering on the ridiculous. Got in on the second hand market and found the gems out there which are going be treasured and worth something as opposed to some of the garbage the bike industry tries to sell people on . Service is gonna be the bread and butter and real good mechanics will be required.
I recently had a gravel bike frame built up and I got about 85% of the parts needed from the bike shop as their pricing was practically the same as what it was online, and except for a couple of items, they had most in stock. I had originally planned to do most of the work myself except for a couple of things, but because I bought so many parts from them, they offered to set it up for free. I insisted they put something down for their time and effort, but they would not. I have been a long time customer of this shop, so could have played a role, but having a great relationship with your local retailer epair shop has many benefits when you need information and assistance. For the last 15 years I have always provided them with homemade baked good on black Friday, and they love to see me come through the doors.
They make profit on the parts, the profit margin you pay in retail. They did not assemble the bike for free. You suggest they will work for no extra? It’s in the parts which they can get way cheaper
@@stevendegreef93 As a former mechanic/service writer but not the be all expert in running a retail location, I think this is an unfair statement. Most part manufacturers list their own msrp for parts; what that margin translates into on the shop floor varies. The owner has to pay rent, utilities, salaries, lawyer, admin etc. That margin is not necessarily for "free installation". I didn't respond in order to start a chat about running an efficient shop, just that how "margin" gets allocated differs in different scenarios. A shop selling a Shimano derailleur at Shimano's msrp doesn't automatically translate into "free installation".
LBS might thrive if they acted as a support system for people buying online, there’s so much crap out there that looks good, advice on best products and willingness to service, on top of traditional bike maintenance. That seems like a viable business model.
I'm a member of a pro-mechanic forum, and I've been seeing complaints from shops being inundated with requests to service poor quality entry-level ebikes. It seems that a lot of mechanics really have no experience/training with it comes to dealing with ebike electrical systems. I've worked on these bikes myself, while they can be time consuming to service, it's still rewarding when a crappy bike gets a good tune up.
@@lihtan Some places forget that the vast majority of bike owners are casual riders with much lower budgets than the internet suggests and where a lot of service money gets made. When I did service writing at my last shop I enjoyed educating riders on their bike and benefits to fixing vs upgrading to new. Ebikes are a different breed, at least where I'm from. It's difficult to get training on general ebike fixes; you're usually at the hand of the manufacturer you sell, and even then it's a lot more about instructions and service bulletins. And I agree, getting a department store bike to useable and mostly safe shape for a kid to ride to school is a good feeling.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but I don't personally see any mileage in that. It would be a bit like offering a paid-for service to assemble crap from IKEYA. You would have close to zero customers.
@@thegearboxman I don't know if you've worked in a service shop, but in the last couple of shops I worked at the vast majority of clients were parents with multiple kids on budgets and no time to work on their own department store bikes. So they'd come to us. We had flat rates for many standard jobs and as the service writer I tried to help folks like that spend their money wisely. And I think you might have to check into how much IKEA delivers and assembles for people, I wager it's more than you think. We also assembled plenty of new/online/DC bikes for a lot of people from any source (you'd be silly to turn down that work). As I said, that work is there and it's the base of a lot of shops. Just my experience, ymmv.
Bicycles are awesome, riding bikes is awesome. I've ridden bikes all my life from my plastic big wheel to BMX to MTB. The bike industry..... absolutly sucks!!! A bicycle is a beatufilly simple machine but, now I don't go anywhere near a bike shop as I'm not a millionare! I know they're not gonna have what I want in stock an if they do it's gonna cost a small fortune. Even online is going down the pan nowerdays. If the bike industry wants my £$£$ they're gonna have to produce an sell what I actually WANT to buy.... NOT try an convince me what I want!! I know what I want, I know what I need. An it's deffo NOT new standards an wheel sizes every few weeks.. It's not headset routed or any internal routed cables. It's not the latest space age materials that are only good for one season.
Bicycle mechanic situation the same here in Spain. A good bike mechanic can command 3-3.5k per month. May not sound amazing, but that’s around 3x the average Spanish salary.
For me when buying something, then I will review if everyone is the same, or there is a potential benefit to buy from one place rather than another. A bike part for example an SLX mech is the same everywhere, so there is no benefit in paying more. On the other hand, I will definitively consider paying more for a better product like Push or Ohlins suspension vs a budget brand. I will also consider paying more for quality labour. Bikes are really simple things, but stripping down suspension and building wheels requires specialist tools and skills that I am better focusing my time and reserves into earning money in my how business. It should also be noted that paying more, don't necessarily guarantee quality. I had a wheel built by a former WC racer and World Champion and it fell apart with several spokes detaching from the nipple in 3 rides. A friend said to be 'what do you expect? A DH World Cup bike only needs to last a couple of runs before its back in the stand.
The closest LBS to me is 35 miles away, but thankfully it's a solid shop with good people and good service. I go there if I need something done that I can't do or don't have the tools to do, which is becoming more rare all the time. When I do go there, I nearly always purchase something I would otherwise buy on line. The last purchase I made there was cable housing, exactly the length I need for a project plus 20% because I cut long and trim. You can't do that on line.
I don't know how it is other places, but here in Norway it begins to be difficult to get common parts, for decent price. All high end stuff are aviable, but the mid range is shrinking. And some parts are difficult to obtain. I am about to buil a wheel from a rim and a hub I have laying around. So I need some spokes. It turns out that there are only one shop in the whole phwxi'n country who can supply that. At least what can be found on the net. Maybe there are some physical shop that have no webshop who has it, but not around here (there are almost no physical bike shops left). The trend here is that people buy complete wheels. From china. With special spokes. If a spoke brake, they buy a new wheel.
Amuses me since I didn't find any specialty nipples without threadlock in my country, but had to source them from a small shop in Finnland. 🙂 I guess we're globalized now.
Rockets and Rascals is half cafe half retail and service It’s up scale on Sandbanks Rd Poole so plenty of wealthy customers 😊 They also have ride outs and a club. Definitely the way forward
Nice video, totally agree. Customer service is PARAMOUNT for my business, customer experience on collections, delivery & pricing is a key factor, that said, I’m never going to be wealthy as a bike technician, but I don’t work anymore, I do a job I love. Keep up the good work 👍
Good service would be not changing parts that are barely used just because it's a yearly service. So many bike shops relying on ignorant customers and take the advantage, at least here in Germany. Most of the bikes are on bike to work schemes that require to be serviced once a year. Because of that I do my own service, don't know any trustworthy shops.
Most shops use gauges and mechanical experience to determine whether a part needs changed, bike parts wear out quicker than you think they do and most people only have an opinion on how long things should last based on the financial implications rather than any actual knowledge. You can run most cars on the same oil and filters for 100k miles but the idea is to service the thing before it completely fails on the road, it's the same with a chain and cassette, you can run it until it's a total mess but it's the bike shops job to change it before it fails to perform at its best and possibly fail whilst riding. If the chain snaps, it's the bike shops fault. If the chain needs replaced for money, it's also the bike shop's fault.
BS, I've had an official Trek store mechanic argue that a chain had to be replaced on my 2 year old bike, not having noticed that the chain on it was only a month/900km old. 99% of the LBS shops business is just taking advantage of ignorant people, and they don't want any other type of customer. Never again for me unless it's absolutely the last option.
@@marcvb3364 what ridiculous statement, "99%" get a grip. If they used a gauge and it showed the wear on your chain, then your chain needed replaced regardless of your opinion. It is quite reasonable that your chain might need replaced after 550miles depending on the riding you're doing.
LOL, another BS take@@DANCEGASMAN A waxed chain will last 10000km on the road including races and sprints no problem. You just showed that you're one of those "mechanics". There was no wear on it whatsoever.
@@marcvb3364 I've been doing it for 25years and I use a wear indicator, if it says it's stretched, it's stretched whether you like it or not. Nobody forces you to change it. You do you but if I work on a bike, I'll do it correctly.
Bike shops with a coffee shop seems to work well in cambridge/suffolk. we have one (maglia rosso) that is heaving at the weekend, and is busy all week long.
7:42 There's actually 2 x Rockets and Rascals stores: one in Plymouth and one in Poole. They share the name/brand but that's the only tie (outside of a friendship between the owners) as far as I can recall. The Plymouth store is a cafe with a little workshop space and a small retail element and has gone through lots of change over the years as it used to sell bikes of varying brands (which also changed over the years) along with various items. They have created a little cycling club (of which I'm a "member") / community of riders and clubs which is sorely needed here in Plymouth. The Poole store do sell bikes (Santa Cruz, Scott, Cervelo and others) and have the same sort of thing as described above for the Plymouth store. I do agree with you that the cycling industry has definitely been tainted somewhere along the lines with business greed and how reviews work, how things are sold and services given. We desperately do need good service/mechanics and fitters and these are very much in short supply, especially as you get outside of London etc.
The bike mill is only a couple of miles away from me in brighouse upto Queensbury. Ryan is following on in the great footsteps of Barry the original owner .Barry was a good egg and at the forefront of where so many shops should be heading .
Selling coffee and cakes is good, too. No idea if it’s profitable. But seriously, modern bikes have become so demanding in terms of the tools, parts and expertise need to properly maintain them that consumers need understand that when they buy a bike. And then factor in the service costs in their purchase decision. And value good mechanics for what they can do. Or keep hunting down the six speed freewheels and then diy maintenance.
Some cyclists, especially the ones who use bikes mainly for transportation, place a lot of value in ease of maintenance . From widely used standards to the simplicity of fully mechanical groupsets. It's a high volume market, but I imagine that the margins must be razor thin except for boutique component manufacturers.
Everything I’ve seen in the industry that has had a bike shop selling coffee etc has ended up closing the bike side because they make more money on coffee….
Cannot but wonder to what extent that replaced exchange of experience/reviews and advice you'd get from magazines. Did it shift to knowledge exchange with peers, staff, and mechanics (over cake and coffee)?
We have a lot of repair only shops (also in supermarkets) where I am in Finland. Queues are still long though and some are just crap (looking at you supermarket one). Anyhow, what I'd like (and I've seen this in Helsinki at least), is bike repair services that come to your work place for small stuff like yearly maintenance.
Great video. All gloom doom videos project totally different than the reality. Even after covid is done, bike industry in the small city I live in has been growing so fast. I used to get annoyed at bike shops not having stuff I need but I understand why bike shops can't stock everything. My friend owns a shop and usually gets stuff for me if I need something not available in Vietnam. Besides its cheaper me to get parts myself and then I don't mind paying bike shops for installation and regular service. The mechanics here don't earn much so I always get coffee and smoothies for them and give them tip when they accept it. I do feel bike shops need to be more involved in the community by organizing group rides and have workshshop to teach newbies about fixing punctures, etc
I'm not a fan of online shopping for anything, especially something mechanical, but having had the opportunity to ride through many parts of France, Italy, Switzerland I can see where in a small town, online is your only option. I know from bike shops in my area that they are really suffering. Bankruptcy and dismal sales. When the average bike was $2K or $3K it probably costs shops $100K to stock a store with 50 bikes. Now it must cost $500K. I don't know how it works but it must be so expensive and risky. Add skyrocketing interest rates and it's easy to see why LBS' are struggling. If it's true (and I have no inside knowledge) that a frame costs $300 to make in China and they sell the frame for $5K or whole bike for $10K, that's almost criminal
Great piece. I'm not a bike mechanic, but have been fixing and building bikes for the best part of 40 years. I'm at the point now where I'm bored with my chosen career, and being lucky enough to work part time, I am seriously thinking about going to work as a mechanic in a bike shop on my non work days. A worrying concern n Melbourne is the number of bike shops with 50% off sales - how can they survive?
I think you’ve nailed it. Bike shops have to win back the trust of customers. And sometimes that means admitting they were wrong/ made a mistake, or admitting that they can’t figure something out. I’d much rather a bike shop be honest with me that they can’t do something or they made a mistake than try to fob me off. Also I really wish there were more mechanics with the tolerance and facing skills that you have- I swear literally no bike shop knows how to do this and just says ‘it’s fine stop complaining’
Another attempt at the half bike shop, half coffee shop has recently opened near me. Also,a couple of "mechanics working from their home" with good reputations, one of them rides with the club. Always thought it was a no brainer for a cycle shop to make contact with the local cycling club. Seems to have gone out of fashion
My local bike shop posted on Instagram mocking the demise of wiggle and celebrated it. I commented about how it was a shame people were going to lose jobs etc only to be mocked by them saying “ you have to be able to joke about it” it’s all s*#ts and giggles until people stop buying there £10-£13k bikes from them!
big brands/whole industry is getting what was coming for them, we as the consumer have been tricked enough (shimano cranks, hookless rims, $15k bikes and more) I would love to see them collapse! and why do we only have 2 main gear group manufacturers?? there is written fuckery all over the industry
Can a shop survive on repairs alone? I always thought they need to sell big ticket items to survive so they can get a good chunk of the rent on a few big money items (500+) instead of adding up 60 pounds every customer. 🤷🏼♂️ Its the same reason a sk8 shop has to do more than sell boards, they gotta be part shoe store and clothing too and it doesnt hurt if its owned and employed by the best sk8rs in town. Seems like bike shops will have to become niche. A bmx shop, a mtn bike shop, a spandex racer shop. Or they will become bike/outdoor sports shop? Niche or in a outdoors sports store. Nothing in the middle.
I too have decided to close my retail side down and go workshop only. Not sure if to go mobile to reduce overheads even more and add some flexibility as the winters are not as busy as pre covid levels. or just walk away from the trade altogether. Both my mechanics are leaving the trade as they have had enough of the crap quality and ridiculous prices, if we all leave that's 60 years combined experience leaving the trade because of how crazy everything has become.
First off, shops deciding not to do retail is nothing new! I bought my shop 23 years ago, and in that time frame we only had one season where retail bike sales and repairs were somewhat even. Supposedly, that was the example that BRAIN thought made a successful shop. We stopped being a retail bike shop about 12/13 years ago. I can still order bikes, but will not bring them in on the floor. We have concentrated on the portion of the business that makes the most money, and that is repairs. Again, not something new.... As for Giant offering 0% interest on bikes, I think you have to look at it a different way, it' is truly about playing with numbers. So whatever percent that they may pay for a bike sale, just may be added back into the sale price or added in another spot, again, NOT something new by any means. I think there are a lot of great shops out there, it seems that most of the attention and media coverage we give shops is only for the larger shops.Perhaps, if we looked at all shops and in all parts of a country, we might just find some surprises that we knew nothing about.
Wicked Bikz ,based in Colne Lancs, the only bike repairs in my area ,J the mechanic is top man , primary e bikes etc, give J a shout out on your next vid, cheers ....
The bike " industry " has its head up its own arse .Like most things they believe the name will save them . Bigger brands than all the major names has folded and vanished .My small shop has been busy enough butvits fling off now with winter and the cost of living etc .I'm repairs and the odd build only .
I've seen so many bike shops go in my 30 years riding, from where I grew up and where my first proper bike came from to where i live now, they are nearly all gone. I can list 10 plus probably way more if i thought about it. Like other folk commenting i live in the countryside and my nearest large population centre with a bike shop is 45mins away. I just do it all myself.
From personal experience here in the states, when you buy a giant bike online, you have to get it from a shop and the shop earns the profit from the sale.
I'm the Saturday kid at Brixton Cycles and I've really noticed a trend towards our income as a shop mainly coming from maintenance and not sales of bikes. Surly is the main brand that we sell and it seems like we're selling less and less of them. I'd imagine that we also get a very different set of customers as an inner-city bike shop. We've also just put up our hourly rate to £59.
Think there are a few things..1, York Cycle Works is a great shop..service and mechanical side is excellent and they do have genuine sales..they’re also in a very bike focused affluent city so I’m pretty sure their bike sales will be fine. 2. I’ve been a cyclist for 50 years and I’d say that in the current climate newbike sales will take a hit unless you’re in a very secure high paying job. As a result being retired I can’t imagine buying another new bike..so having great mechanics near bye is a must- as has learning to do a lot of things myself. 3. I think what you say is pretty indisputable..I imagine a lot of not great shops will go under unless they up their game in some way.
After service and maintenance for bikes is essential.If the shops service disappeared you not going to fly to the point of manufacturing to get it serviced. The future of the cycle is maintaince and after service.
I can't find a job as bicycle mechanic in my country of Croatia. My first mechanic job was payed 2.20€ per hour and that is why I quit. Second was 4€ per hour in Shimano Service Center but I quit because they treated me as a slave. I'm very passionate about the job and I own a lot of tools and I volunteered 7 years in bike kitchen. If anyone is willing to hire me and give me a small room to live in I'm more than happy to relocate. I'm sick of working jobs that I don't like.
@@johnlesoudeur3653 I have very high IQ so it is not a problem to understand from contex. I went to work in UK one season selling chocolate and I am computer guy so english is almost my native language.
Bike prices have gone through the roof and local shops want to sell you a bike but not fix anything you haven't bought there... I've been using a local van based bike mechanic for years now and could not be happier! 6 bikes, all in great shape and I didn't have to drag them to some shop where the staff look down on me for causing them a hassle...
Im not eager to necessarily buy bikes on line. My recent bike purchase required plenty of effort to actually find a store with inventory to ride. It was over two hours away but test riding several bikes each in multiple sizes was crucial and ended up with me getting a very different bike than I would have purchased online. In fact the bike I would have purchased online was actually the least preferable in real life. They had a good shop but 2hr drive for service is out question. I do most of my work but I'd kill for a good service center for when it's beyond my ability or economic sence because of tools prices.
The standard of workmanship in our LBS is appalling. I seem to spend half my life fixing things on friends bikes after they have had a “service” there. Last one was a Cervelo Caledonia 5 that was returned “fully serviced” with a crankset that you couldn’t even turn over by hand. The mechanic had lost the shim when removing the NDS crank and just put it back together without, so the crank arm was hard up against the frame. The owner of the bike isn’t even slightly mechanically aware and was just pedalling it oblivious. It only came to light because I was trying to clean his chain and realised what had happened as soon as I tried to turn the cranks. Had another one, a Cannondale bottom bracket that had every shim that came in the box, all fitted to the drive side, with the NDS literally barely on the splines. Seriously, how can a “mechanic” not notice that something’s not right? Are they against the clock so much much that there’s a “fk it, just send it” mentality? Why do bike shops employ someone with not a shred of integrity or ability to provide this most important part of their business?
My LBS experience in London has been terrible. I snapped a chain and needed a quick link, 4 shops and none of them had stock. I ended up ordering from Amazon. Similar story with SPD cleats. Built my frame and needed work done to face a frame mount, the LBS promised 1 day. It took 2.5 days and brake pads soaked in mineral oil. Spent £60 and £20 on new pads at Amazon. Now I won't bother supporting local. This wasn't just one shop. I am not convinced on the support LBS argument.
If I buy components from a shop and they fit it to my bike, most likely I'll get some kind of warranty and cover on the part and the work. I would never bring a part I bought online and ask my LBS to fit it for me. It feels wrong somehow. How do you see it working in this new business model with parts? Will I bring parts I bought online to the LBS and they will make sure the part is the correct size or compatibility etc with my bike? Will they be able to offer warranty on the part once it is on my bike? Will bike shops have partnership ls with online retailers? Could I have the option to have the parts delivered directly to my LBS? I am really interested in how this will all work out.
Flexibility is key. We are open to all of this. And openly welcome so that no one feels uncomfortable. You choose to come to us because of our skills, not because we sell something. We will price match as best we can. We will buy things from online retailers, eBay, Amazon if we have too. Simple motto. Get the job done, and do it well.
Things like saddles, bars and stems will likely be carried by specialist bike fit locations. Although it will be a limited range. Maybe they even just have demos saddles and then order what you need. The London Bike kitchen have a Saddle Library
Only way for me to get wha ti need is to buy from online stores, directly from manufacturer, no shop nea rme that even has parts I need. But I don't mind shopping for badelayer or some chain lube or something like that. No in dependant shop here. Only a sports store. Little bit of this and that. But a workshop is a great idea defenitly. Having all every ride needs is hopeless. Mechanics is the key I think. I work on my bikes my self. But not everyone have the knowledge, tools, or a bike might require tools user don't know of. I think it's good tha to lines hops exist, they are needed or i would not have any spare parts, chains, tyres. Online retailers for parts local shops for mechanics. Some online retailers also have physical shops with service. Not all do.
When I returned to motorcycling 2 years ago going into a motorbike shop was like going into TUI after spending 30 years being charged £3k a week going to Butlins. It confirmed how cyclists have been brainwashed and ripped off for so long. Bike manufacturers really have been having a laugh. In motorbike terms, the level of engineering and quality that you can get for the price of a low end carbon bike is astounding.
Service only model only works as long as there still are shops that also actually sell bikes. Not everyone is savvy enough to make buying decisions without riding or seeing the bike first. Sure, the industry needs to change. This has been obvious since they started messing with MTB wheel sizes and axle standards every 18 months. Here in Scandinavia it's cargo bikes and utility e-bikes that are keeping bike shops going at the moment. Oh and we don't have a cost of living crisis here of course.
I undercut shop mechanic fees as it is a side hustle for me and I have other streams of income . It is almost a leisure thing to do bicycle repairs for other people . I charge 50 percent of the rate of shops in my region . A bicycle retail chain is in trouble where I am from .
This dynamic is true of every industry, even the oldest one in the world 😉. We keep good relations with our local semi-pro wrenches. They often come to us for jobs they can’t do. Suspension etc.
@@Mapdec A private college near me teaches suspension anatomy and servicing . Sadly , very few shops want to set up for it as it requires a fair amount of space and specialist tooling . Also the potential for mess / containment and contamination risks . Also parts can be hard to obtain if there are breakages discovered . Some colleges teach methods that aren't best practice also . Dot fluids put off a lot of shops as they are highly hazardous and allergic reactions are common . The other problem with BMTI is that they only look at FOX and Rockshox . They don't include Marzocchi , DT , Ohlins , Manitou , Bolany and Suntour etc , which I have to deal with .
I really want to support my local bike shop and other local small businesses, but i have very rarely had a positive experience in the few near me. I am clearly not their target customer for buying clothing/day to day kit - i need workhorse commuter kit on the whole that doesn't cost £200 for a jersey and won't fall apart after 3 washes. I am female and i want a choice of more than 2 tops or 1 set of bibs, but they just don't cater for this. I also don't want to pay £300 for a pair of oakleys when i can get planetx glasses for £15 that look the same and quite possibly came out of the same factory. The wiggle DHB kit was perfect for me and didn't cost a fortune. I've bought loads of basic bike bits from them, brake pads chains etc, all great value, usually in stock and never a long wait. I just can't fault them. It'll be a real shame if they go under. My most recent experience of my LBS was trying to get them to service a set of carbon wheels that were creaking. They shrugged, said it wasn't worth them doing it, but did i want to buy this nice set of hunts for £1800 instead. I did not, I went home and took my wheel apart myself, serviced the creaky hub with some help via RU-vid and an email from the original seller (cero wheels from cycledivision . com) - took me an hour or so and they're good as new again. I lost a lot of respect for that particular LBS that day. I would thoroughly recommend cero wheels and cycledivision for the quality of the wheels and the aftercare. They offered to service them for free and just charge for parts if required.
@@Mapdec I won't name them. They have a very good name for top end bikes but have no interest in the average user not wanting to spend 8k on a pinarello.
Good in theory, not so solid in practise when it comes to being a venue. You can’t please everyone unfortunately, and not all “venues” allow for shops/buildings. I also thought your argument around competing with your online parent was misleading. I was under the impression that dealers receive the same options that offered under the direct online offer. So if trek discounts there online bike by 30% , dealers get access to this offer as well, same margin position is offered, just smaller profit because of the smaller revenue. I am a tight ass, but still try to go through my lbs as our online stores in Australia are really pricey. So you can get the same consumable part for the same cost , but at least you know lbs will ensure it is the correct part
Not always. If a shop already has bought and paid for inventory they don’t get a retrospective discount when the mother brands goes into sale direct. They just get screwed. They would also need to compete on the finance and cycle to work scheme.
I know one product that I hate buying online, helmets! (I have an XL+ head and some brands XLs aren't big enough) Anyone know of a retailer in South East England that carries a decent range? I wouldn't mind travelling and if they don't have the colour I want in stock but I can try it on for size I'm happy to order it through the shop there and then....
When I stopped dealing with bike shops I stopped having issues with my bicycles. I have not purchased a name brand bicycle in 20 years, could not be happier.
I find it annoying when shops only offer service and I'll migrate my business toward one that offers hardgoods I need at a moment's notice. I had a guy break a handlebar and he needed a new one he next day, size 38 for another race that day. The shop had one stashed away. Didn't need to be fancy, just something that fits the need. I expect a shop to have certain things. But yes, they have to supplement with eBay sales or a donut shop or a pump track or something that makes it a destination.
@@Mapdec is often the small things, like offering a valve extender or a Cassette. But I'm not going to go in and expect to buy Dura Ace off the shelf or browse a selection of saddles. One thing i hate hearing is, "we don't have it we can order it for you" in 2023 I can order it too. I'm here because online sometimes is just too slow.
