With a 651 open bowl scraper you need a D11 or d10 to push load it so here we have an 11 and no scraper engine so only 1 machine burning fuel. Most undercarriage wear (at least bushings) is in reverse on a high track and these guys go forward 99% of the time. With the suspended undercarriage on a D11 and the low speed these guys run no haul road maintenance required = no grader which = no cost. Mcaninch broke-yeh i would like to be as broke as them. Ncaninch broke
Hmmm, no scraper brakes to maintain, no scraper powertrain to maintain, 4 scraper tyres lasting like the 2 on the trailer do, no haulroad to maintain with a grader, can work really steep country, can work when wet, no scraper operator to pay, should i go on? OK no dozer blade maintenance, no 2nd gear reverse track wear, no ripper maintenance, no scraper fuel bill. Think of it like this, how much lower is the dirt on a cost per yard basis. Much much cheaper without a doubt
I got to ride for an hour with my son on a McAnich job north of Charlotte..Looking out over the hood of a D11 while pulling those 651 pans is a moment I will never forget..By the way, they don't have a trainer seat, so very uncomfortable!
Well said. Anyone who can afford to put 2 or 3 million dollars worth of equipment on a job didn't get to that position by doing stupid things. There are always underlying reasons.
Yeh, 57,s can load themselves but remember how many engines burning diesel, how many drive tyres do you have to keep in good order to achieve traction. I have used Cats FPC program and run the numbers on this spread and to 1200ft round haul distance it is very hard for a self propelled to keep up. Mcaninch had a big auction to clean house and like i said i would like to be as broke as them
I personally know 100% that my CAT dealer would not recommend a D-11 dozer to pull a scraper especially on a leveled surface, the work application doesn't deem a dozer to pull a scraper. That's why when you're purchasing a CAT equipment, there's the little black booklet that gives each individual CAT equipment of it's description of their profile, stats and work applications to suit the buyers needs. CAT 637/657 would've justly do the job on the video! I can just imagine the premature wear!
Sounds like a couple of tanks on the loose! Big mothers those D11's, wonder when CAT will come out with the D12? Since they bought over Bucyrus they have expanded with a massive fleet of machines for both surface and underground mining (Check out Earthmovers magazine) and just built the largest hydraulic shovel. Why not a super size D12 dozer to go with it as well as a 799-series rigid dumptruck? Two passes and done!
High speed crawler pulled scraper operation takes a toll on the rollers, grousers, and transmission and more. A costly way to move dirt. But it sure looks cool!
Actually the undercarriage lasts good on a scraper Cat. We've got 7000+ hours out of an undercarriage. The most efficient Cat to pull a scraper is a direct drive.
Where are these working? Have used old cable scoops on D7s but nothing the size of these. In the right situation these would be more productive than wheel scoops. Prefer the feel of tracks under me, than the bounce of tires anyday.
they got hydylalics or ether pullys that lift the back of the pan up at an angle then they got like weight that adjust the amount of dirt emtyed out kk
a standard scraper could not pull a full load due to its wheel unlike a dozer which has a crawler track greatly increases traction. in some quarry they use both, the dozer pushes the standard scraper which increases fuel consumption.
Very inefficient I'd say, just stick a 385lme up on a bench with 6.5m3 bucket on 3 pass loading 40 ton Volvo A40s, they can load a truck in around 40 seconds. Those D11s are for backfilling opencast coal mine cuts not hauling muck.
Run a small dozer and pull scraper, there alright for short haul or soft ground conditions, using my unit at the moment but running a Cat elevator scraper of my mates for the longer hauls, too much track wear otherwise
I heard a couple of years, pci I believe went to the d-11 and some kind of combo doing work along 30 west near tama now from what i have seen and heard.
I'm an operator my self but never run scraper but I would think that rubber tire double barrel scrapers would be cheaper in the long run what would be the benefit of this settup?
walk around video of cat with trailer is missing on here,,it was vary interesting because the trailer had no front wheels because the cat was the fifth wheel itself..could have been a T10 ..
Wow!! Somebody has way to much money!!! Undercarriages are way to expensive for that crap. ROI would be very low. D11 pulling a pan ok. But I hope it is a short turn around!!!
My two cents worth: They are on such a short haul I would think a D 11 would out push any scraper on such a short haul. Scrapers have always been high maintenance. I would not want the undercarriage bill on them dozers turning all the time. On the other hand any good scraper hand on scrapers will almost eliminate the compactor bill! Good and bad I guess. I would not have done it that way especially with 2 D11's at hand. Thats why someone is making the big bucks and not me! lol Still Awesome toc
Interesting....curious....why did they build these?? What makes them better than a standard scraper?? what is the benefit of having a dozer pull a scraper?? thanks for the info in advance...
Amtrakeng, I have operated Cats and scrapers for 17 years, and worked around everything else. I have owned them and motor scrapers and have been the foreman, so I have a good understanding. Although to a novice that sees motor scrapers run like hell, they can't understand the advantages. But being both on the business end and in the seat I can tell you everything you want to know. First thing is you do not need the support machines you do with other methods of moving dirt. For example, if you use an excavator and rock trucks, you need a Cat feeding the excavator, the rock trucks, the excavator, and a Cat dozing away from the trucks. With a Cat and scraper, one does it all. With motor scraper, to load efficiently they need a Cat to push them. Then you need a grader to keep the path smooth for them. A Cat and scraper doesn't need any support equipment at all That's the first advantage. The second advantage is Cats and scrapers can work in soft conditions efficiently when other equipment cannot. Motor scrapers and rock trucks lose efficiency when soft ground bogs them down. Cats and scrapers don't bog down in the same soft ground and when they do bog down, you will get a rock truck or motor scraper stuck. Also because a Cat rides smooth and travels through most conditions easier, you can usually shorten up the distance you haul a little by taking shortcuts other machines can't efficiently take. Third, and this one everyone oversees who watch this and say they are a waste. But you can often set up your work to haul 2 or more ways with Cats and scrapers. One example is when you strip a borrow area, you can put the topsoil on each end. Then you strip one way , dump, turn around and strip going the other way and dump. Same applies if you build a road. You can take a load of clay and dump it in a stripped area, and then go take topsoil farther up and take it back with you. No other piece of equipment can do that without even more support equipment. When you understand how to set up your work, nothing is more efficient. However, as with all other equipment, these machines have their limitations. On a really long haul, especially one way hauling, motor scrapers are definitely better. but on hauls up to 1000' and soft ground work, Cats and scrapers are the best.
I have had 57"s floating in bogs we stickem once in a while. We load in 22 sec's average and dump in 8th gear 99% of the time we move more with 1 657 in 3 hours than those 11's will move 10hrs that is a fact. I could show you 25 problems with the operation in that vid, right off the top of my head. just because you've been doing it the same way for 40 years does not mean you have not been doing it wrong for the last 30 years.
We heard of those idiots and laugh. As for knowing whats is going on, I can move mass dirt or finish to grade on any machine. I grew up on 657's quad 9's 10's HD-41's TD-40's 11's
A lot of dumb comments coming from people who have never OPERATED a cat and can. They can be very efficient at moving wet clay in wet conditions with ONE operator. We run komastu d155 s pulling pans.
K. Reimer right on. What's inefficient is a Cat dozing to a hoe. A hoe loading a rock truck. Another Cat spreading from the rock truck. Why use 4 pieces of iron when one will do the job? Yet that's how dirt is moved in the 21st century. Go figure. A few Cats and scrapers eat hoes and rock trucks for breakfast. Also, unless the conditions are good and the haul is long, Cats and scrapers can be more efficient because they don't need support equipment. We did an experiment in 2004. We had 2 621Es hired and 5 Cats and scrapers. I was operating a High Horsepower D8H 36A pulling a 463 scraper. I cut and dumped in the same spot as the 621s. They were pushed and I loaded unassisted. At the end of the 10 hr. day, I hauled 10m3 more than one of the 621s. Why? The ground was soft and they couldn't travel very fast. They had to travel over the hardest ground possible meaning I could travel a shorter route. Plus, 463s hold an additional 6 cubic yards. It was a fairly long haul for Cat and scraper, roughly 1000'. But I had to occasionally take their route and drag my scraper bowl to smooth their path. Otherwise, I would have hauled even more. We figure out the 621 scrapers at 10m3 and the 463s at 13m3, since we're getting paid by the compacted cubic metre. Those are very close estimations. I can often work more efficiently by the hour because since quantities are not measured, I can often set up the work so I can haul 2 ways. The trick to making Cats and scrapers efficient is to keep them loaded as much as possible. You can't do that as easily with motor scrapers or especially rock trucks because they require so much support equipment. That's the greatest efficiency of Cats an scrapers. When you get paid by quantity of material moved, only the hauling equipment is what is actually getting paid. All the support equipment works for free. For example, we'll use 2 D8Ks and 463s working at $250/Hr. Now lets look at crew B Who has a D7H pushing to a Cat 330 hoe at $ 200/hr. The 330 is getting $200 to load 2 Cat 740 trucks which lets say are also getting $200/ hr. Then, we have a D6R dozing away from the trucks at $180/hr. So the 2 Cats and scrapers are getting paid $500/ hr and 2 rock trucks are essentially getting $980/hr for doing the same work. They bloody well better haul ass. Another thing with scrapers, you get more on when you load them than a truck. This is because when you load, it partially compacts the dirt. You never get as much on a scraper when you top load with a hoe. There is a huge difference of what you spread when you get top loaded and load yourself.
It is probably the easiest job you can do with them. Crawler tractors were originally designed to pull with the drawbar. Dozers for them came afterward. For pulling scraper, I always remove the dozer because they are a pain in the ass when you pull a scraper.
Actually, this is probably the easiest job on undercarriage. We got 7000 hours out of a Berco undercarriage on a D8H and 9000 hours out of a Cat undercarriage on a D8K. Both tractors primarily pulled scraper.
Why, in the name of sweet shit, would you destroy D11's pulling tow-scrapers? So uneconomical its unbelievable whatever company this is is still in business. 2 657's will do twice the work those slow fuckers will do.
Kelsurk, this may be unbelievable to you but that's not always true. We did an experiment in 2004 and it proved otherwise We had 2 621Es and 5 Cats and scrapers working. I was running a D8H and a 463 scraper and I loaded and dumped in the same place the 621s did. They were push loaded an I loaded unassisted. The haul distance was 1000' each way. At the end of a 10 hour day, I hauled 10m3 more than one of the 621s. How did that happen? The ground was soft and it slowed them down. They had to take a longer route as they have to stick to the hardest ground. I could take a shortcut where a 621 or 627 would get stuck. And the 463 holds 6 yards more than a 621. The D8H and 463 is a comparable hourly rate to a 621. Motor scrapers are the most efficient way to move dirt provided that the haul distance is longer, and the ground is hard so they don't bog down. One 10 hour day when stripping topsoil and hauling it a considerable distance, I loaded unassisted and hauled 135 loads with a 30 yard scraper and used only 320 litres or 85 U.S. gallons to do it. That is hardly uneconomical! I do agree that D-11s may not be the best choice because of the difficulty of moving them around. But we've owned motor scrapers, and for the most part, the most efficient machine for moving dirt is a D-8 with a 463 scraper behind.
