Dan Mcclellan - A Historical Book of Mormon, A Matter of Faith or Fact? 

Your definition of wisdom is inaccurate. You're out of your league with Dan. You tried to compensate with excess emotion. Absence of evidence is different than AGAINST the consensus of scholarship. Feelings are horrible indicators of truth as you demonstrate so well.

@@ericreed4535 you've just made an equally emotionally based argument. You fail to reference any quantifiable evidence yourself.

@@millennialfalkon "I know you are but what am I"? Really? LoL. How old are you? Re-read my comment and you'll see the main point of believing in the absence of evidence being very different than believing "against" the most credible positions of scholarship on the subject. This is a great example of not being emotional and accepting best evidences rather than allowing emotion to make you believe something there is much evidence against. I'd say nice try but it wasn't.

@@ericreed4535 you still haven't provided any evidence of anything. You've relied on anyone reading your drivel to just take your word for it.

You CHAMP! That's super open minded of you! And very much appreciated! I likewise am trying to do the same with my Catholic friends!

read No Man Knows My History, about Joseph Smith and the founding of the church.

Catholics are awesome

We love our catholic brothers and sisters we wouldn’t even have the Bible without you guys

The Book of Mormon is the most powerful, concentrated book to understand our theology, especially about core doctrine.

Yeah, I think I appreciate Dan’s work for this perspective. It’s important to be objective about what is actually in the text and what is not. I think what he’s really revealing is that people who have idolized a bunch of words in a book as some sole spiritual guide are, ironically, denying the very God of the scriptures they claim to believe in. Not sure what his personal views on both institutional and personal revelation are, but, ongoing revelation is really all that’s left.

Dan clearly states the data show the book of Mormon is a 19th century work and not of ancient origin. He also points out the problems of late additions to the bible being in the BoM. No bookwriting existed in the Americas. We know when literacy arrived. Sorry for your BoM beliefs.

Well, he was wrong. DNA and anachronisms have proven the BoM is fiction.

Faith is a requirement for navigating the mortal part of our eternal journey -- if we are to progress.

Lots disprove it as not true, it’s definitely not historical, those people didn’t exist on this continent

@@shawnbradford2243 Plenty of proof that they did, but go ahead and gamble to lose.

Faith allows us the ability to repent. If we had true knowledge, repentance.would.do us no good

Repent or leave

Yeah I obviously don’t know his mind but I don’t think he believes the lds church is true, how can he. I think he stays for the community and it does him good.

Why, you ask? The answer is because although Dan is a member his work consistently undermines people's faith in the scriptures.

I think he is an apostate who retains his church membership to cause damage within.

Although he has some politico-sociological views that are incredibly unwise, and even deny science. He’s hyper-sociological-typical of many on the left. I think sociology is just fairly easy to understand, and he wants to be a good citizen, but he spends nearly all of his time in another discipline. So that is his default. Sociology is low-hanging fruit. It’s a useful academic perspective, but he takes it too far, even at the expense of harder sciences.

Then he could have stated that plainly: "there's no direct evidence." That's radically different than "the evidence points in the opposite direction." That's not careful statement of fact, that's rhetoric. Why does he indulge in such rhetoric? Either he doesn't know how to measure his words, in which case I don't trust him to teach me anything about scripture; or he measured those words deliberately, in which case I still don't trust him to teach me anything about scripture.

⁠@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp I understand what you say. I agree that should be more direct, considering that not everyone would watch or understand correctly. I consider Dan a great scholar, studying the data helps people unlock the capacity of thinking and not be trapped by dogma created by members. The best way to approach this is to consider to be opinion and not an unchangeable truth. The same way with church literature that are not part of canon. Listen to Church History Matters podcast on canonization, they present difficult topics in a harmonic way.

It is completely honest and accurate to say that the evidence surrounding the historical claims of the book of Mormon point away from it's literal accuracy, not towards it.

We never said data is not needed. The point is that lack of data towards the positive doesn’t point to a negative.

@@thestickofjoseph ‘great claims require great evidence’. Whenever I hear a GA say you just have to have faith to ‘fill in the gaps’ of the Book of Mormon, I wonder why the church (BYU) used to send archeological researchers down to Central America in the 50s-70s and then abandoned that approach when they couldn’t find one shred of evidence. Now the church doesn’t spend any money directly to fund this type or research. Just read the bio of Thomas Stuart Ferguson. The church leaves this to FAIR, Wayne May, Book of Mormon Central and other groups like you to try and come up with theories that will keep TBMs on a wild goose chase. I am an active member but no longer accept B o M historicity. None of your positions are peer reviewed by independent research. You guys need to accept that the official church narrative regarding the B o M historicity in 20-30 years will be just like that of the Community of Christ. They are already starting that direction with statements from Bushman (‘pseudepigrapha’), McCllellan and Mason (‘19th Century’). You need to get used to the fact that you guys will never be taken seriously by any independent verifiers, and the church will NEVER officially endorse your positions.

@@thestickofjoseph Is the mormon church currently looking at any of the sites on your map?

A great thought! (and this is coming from an post Mormon turned atheist) I especially loved your last paragraph. The more knowledge you gain, the more you realize you don’t know. I have found this to be so true. And like you said, it takes so much humility to recognize that and be okay with it and move forward regardless. And that humility that allows us to be open to the truth is also super healthy because it gives us the strength to give up beliefs that may be important to us but are ultimately not true, and therefore are holding us back. Humility allows us to accept the truth even if it hurts to do so.

@@andrewtheawesome Thank you for your response and you nail it.. I have the motto to love truth above all lies even though these lies my be my present truth. Humility is so important.. Another lesson I learned is that the same judgment that welcomes lies, as long as they help disprove the beliefs of others, will also reject to the same extent any truth, that would prove ones owns believes to be false... To always be willing to put the facts as they present itself to us above dogmatic believes, and at the same time to discern all spiritual truth by how much it actually causes me to become more gentle, kind, longsuffering, patient, selfless etc, has turned out a great way to me, and I think even if people are not religious, this can still contribute to a better world, especially since it allows room for individual spirituality, seeing how God works through all these differences, and that therefore there is no need to condemn them. :)

I have also seen several of Dan's videos and I appreciate his approach. I try to take in multiple perspectives at once, spiritual, academic, etc. I take those perspectives, consider them, and pray for guidance. Often, I have to wait for a definitive answer. While I wait, I can consider several possible scenarios as potential truth while understanding that I don't know which scenario (if any of them) is the truth. I keep going, learning more from multiple sources, while considering multiple possibilities. I don't have to know how everything works, but as long as I can find at least one scenario where it makes sense to me, given all I understand and have experienced/witnessed, then I am alright with it.

@@josephkaitschuck5999 I value the academic apporach because it give a lot of context on how to understand the Bible, for example... Just looking at the invation of Canaan we see that the story in the Bible is presented as a great exaggeration, and that such exaggerations were common in that time and place.. That allowes us to understand that God was not actually the one commanding all the murder and killing, but that it was a story told by ancient people according to their traditions and rethoric, which allowes us to meet God even in such stories and scriptures.. But I also understand that everything that does not serve to "know God" is only secondary in relevance, and that applies to everything Paul lists in 1 Corint. 13... He makes clear that bringing forth charity is what matters most (which comprises much more than just being kind, also things like loving truth wherever it comes from, longsuffering, patience, kindness etc).. And to me this makes sense, since even the Bible teaches that to love means to know God, and to know God means to obtain eternal life, and so Jesus was right that above all, we are to love one another..

"Return to the basics" is just another way of saying that you choose blind, ignorant faith

Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith. He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others. Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

​@@timalger8496why is it so hard for people to recognize this? You're spot on.

No he doesn’t. Anyone that claims to do that isn’t being honest and most likely isn’t faithful to their beliefs. Also, the channel he went on is very anti-Mormon so….

He doesn't publicly talk about his faith because he has none. He doesn't have a testimony. I don't say that for no reason. If you look at his social media, or his interviews (and who he chooses to do interviews with), it's pretty clear he has no testimony in the Restoration. He sees the Church like other progressive members do, i.e. a man-made institution that can be led and molded from the ground up. He doesn't believe the Church is divinely led and I have yet to see anything from him, through any medium, that is spiritually uplifting in any way.

dan is not a man of faith, he only stays in the church so he can more effectively lead others out

Watch more of his material. I defended him for a good while before enough layers were peeled back, and it became clear he does not have good intentions towards the future of the Church, and also isn't honest in his scholarship. He presents "consensus" that isn't really consensus at all, but the thoughts of only one particular intellectual school and analytical field, mostly post-modern. One of his worst takes is on the analysis of the apocalyptic genre. Furthermore, we are under commandment as members of the Church to never "leave our faith at the door" and to stand as witnesses of Christ in all things. He doesn't get to use that excuse.

That is a very intriguing point about "never leaving your faith at the door." I would agree that I feel like his content does directly point you to Christ. However, I feel he is being a little misrepresented. Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith. He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others. Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

The sample sizes for DNA are enormous. Results are 0% middle Eastern. LDS convinces people that they are more spiritual, more enlightened than others. It's superiority complex masquerading as Christianity imo.

u are autistic my brother.

I think I'll go cleanse my palate by listening to another Royal Skousen talk. There's one cat who follows the evidence where it leads, and reports about his findings responsibly.

Weird how “academics” are defined as darkness

Isn't that rich. A fictional book led you to a fictional messiah. How appropriate.

@@FAITHandLOGIC I love how it makes me want to be more like Christ. More kind, more forgiving, more patient, more aware of others needs and a desire to help them. It brings me greater hope and peace in Christ. It’s glorious and More precious than diamonds. ❤️☀️

@@FAITHandLOGIC Even if it was fictional, which I absolutely don’t believe that it is… I love that heart changes it works in me. ❤️ I’d rather believe in a fictional book that brings me peace and joy in Christ, than walk around the earth pointing the finger of scorn at my fellow travelers who believe differently than I do, It is a happier more fulfilling way to live. ☀️❤️

@@FAITHandLOGIC 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Historicity is most important for the truth that God is more knowledgeable than man. Nobody believes that anymore, often even Judeo-Christians. Also all the most common exegesis is incredibly superficial and unwise, and especially lacks even the slightest room for moral complexity. Scriptures are meant to be books of questions as much as answers. But most Christians deny any possibility of God answering those questions, and treat scripture almost like a list of rules on a Kindergarten class wall. It’s pitiful. God gave us a brain, but most are just picking a tribe or clique in their Kindergarten class. A lot of people are going to be blown away when these ethical and logical tensions are explained by God. But all too many will lose their exaltation sneering at out-groups and feeling morally superior.

No, what he did here was remind everyone to choose blind faith over data and science and concluded with the "ignorance fallacy." This is just a form of bad apologetics.

@@alesso_me Hello! Can you explain your reasoning?

@danielhailstone6280 yeah the reasoning is just using critical thinking skills

@@alesso_me enlighten me

@@alesso_me Reasoning is a Critical Thinking skill, so how does this apply?

The heartland theory is easily disproved by the simple fact that Native Americans have nothing to do with mormonism. They are a completely separate and unique culture with their own religious beliefs and practices, and making the assertion that they're a part of your culty Christian sect is upholding a racist, colonialist mindset.

@@alesso_me Jesus is probably a lighter skinned POC. How is He a racist corner-stone of a movement based on Him being a redeemer of ALL mankind? Only whites can believe in blessings given to us through obedience, sacrifice, repentance, forgiveness, love, family, eternal life, unselfishness, etc?

@dcarts5616 firstly, saying that Jesus is "probably light-skinned" is at best speculation and at worst just more racist rhetoric lmao. Secondly, according to the book of mormon, the mormon version Jesus/God cursed native americans (and other people of color) with dark and black skin as a way to make them ugly and undesirable. If the racism in that teaching isn't obvious to you, then there's no way you'll see the truth.

@@alesso_me here we go someone stating a completely opinion, based rant, proving that their education is that an only that of just their opinion, and they have nothing to back it up, but they must be heard! So we can all laugh, as why they must be heard😂

@@alesso_me if you knew anything, which you don’t, you would realize that Native Americans have many words in their language that are derived from the Hebrew language and how could that be? You’re missing the forest for the trees

Most of the cuts are just shortened pauses. It fits the genre of reaction video a little better. Thanks for watching!

We’ve recently consulted with a pretty smart guy about some new ideas 😉

DNA and anachronisms to name a few.

There is not a single thing in the Book of Mormon that Joseph Smith couldn't have known or understood at the time of dictating the Book of Mormon, and apparently at the age of 12 he understood the Bible better than any preacher because he explained in his Journal that was the conflict that was going on in his mind.

​@@stevenhenderson9005trek new you know nothing about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon without telling me you know nothing about either of them.🫠

@@crazyaboutcards You Know nothing about Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon, otherwise you would know that the book can only contain what Joseph knows and understands at the time of dictation. Stop resting the scriptures 😴

Those in the New Testament namely Matthew and John.

​@@thestickofjoseph try Reading Dr.Michael Licona: New Testament scholar on evidences for the Resurrection!

What are some of them?

@@thestickofjoseph is not the scholarly consensus that the authors of the Gospels are anonymous? And that it is highly unlikely that Mark, Matthew, Luke or John recorded any of them?

😂😂😂 that made me Lol! Those are quite terrible!

Love the thought process though!

Not true. I've been amazed at the historical data.shoeing it is fact. More.and more evidence is coming out. I remember as a kid , it being said I. The last days , all mysteries will be answered . And a lot of it has been suppressed. Now they have found there were horses here.

@@MrRickb75645 Could you give us the top three evidence you have that you believe supports the Book of Mormon as historical fact? And what do you think about the swords?

I do not, and I think that is a shallow view of the text. If you would like to hear our whole thoughts on this, email me hayden@thestickofjoseph.com

@@thestickofjoseph ru-vid.comptyMKVIDiek?si=-tYd77vMpBuHMV7-

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_1844_presidential_campaign#:~:text=In%20his%20campaign%20platform%2C%20Smith,Day%20Saints%20and%20other%20minorities. People grow and change.

Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith. He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others. Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

You’re not wrong. Dan is worse because he gets to walk around and preach as if he still believes in the restoration and faith etc. Not only that, because Dan is still a member, he gets to attend conferences like ones put on by every wokening Faith Matters and parade around as one having credibility.

Maybe misery loves company and John is actually a hero?

​@@dcarts5616what did JS restore? Temple marriage, endowment, three heavens, polygamy, special handshakes. None of these were taught by Jesus. That's a creation, not a restoration.

@@dcarts5616 Dan is a new class of "anti-mormon". I call them "well poisoners". They stay in the Church and foster perspectives that over time, lead people out of activity and away from belief. He simultaneously tells people that have a spiritual witness of the truth of the Restored Gospel that they are just in a social club, while saying he won't argue against someone's "lived experience" if they happen to be a person captured by social contagion. In other words, if your experiences are faith promoting, he dismisses you, if your experiences are faith diminishing he sympathizes with you. They are also usually educated and articulate, so they can feign spiritual authority. He is a monster, make no mistake.

@@3thingsfishing427 priesthood authority (the sealing power), temple worship, obedience to the laws of heaven, and returning to the true condescension of God the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ, and the Comforter aka the Holy Ghost as three separate beings who were yet unified in one single purpose, and the understanding that God’s people existed not just in the old world but worldwide, and yes, even a fundamental reeducation on what the plan of salvation or the plan of happiness truly meant for each one of us… are just a few things that were restored through the prophet Joseph. In the scheme of things, Joseph is simply another succession of leadership that started with Adam.

We do not find ANY evidence to support the book of mormon.

Send me and email and let’s get on the phone. jackson@thestickofjoseph.com

Please stop spending time with people who speak only error.

When you are afraid to look at historical evidence, you know your mind is being controlled by the LDS church. Please, you are in a CULT. The GOOD NEWS is that Jesus is LORD and you can go to Him directly without the lies of the mormon church.

Not everyone believes the same as you and we try not to take a hard stand on the issue of geography. Instead we try to create a place where people can decide for themselves.

City of zarahemla 😂😂😂😂😂

Its not a modern day history book but it is a history book. At least a large bulk of it is. Time spent in the BoM is primarily recording the interactions through war and repentance the Nephites and the Lamenites and it does so with one historical record after another, ad nausium.

@@blusheep2It might be just a parable. It didn't happen but it teaches a good lesson. Or we do not have enough archeological evidence to prove it yet

@@jonathangatto Do you really think that is a good option? Its possible that there hasn't been enough archeology done, but NO evidence in all the archeology that has been done?

The argument to rely on a spiritual witness works if you accept that there are multi right answers. Otherwise you'd be telling someone to seek a spiritual witness, then telling them "no, you got the wrong answer. The right answer is mormons silly!"

Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith. He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others. Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith. He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others. Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

You’re trying too hard to sound like Dan.

@@ClintThomsen I’m sorry you didn’t understand what I said! Let’s chat in a couple years when you graduate high school🙌🏻

​@@dwool1996LOL the more you snark the easier it becomes to ignore you

But the brothers promised to be fair and opened minded! hahahahah

As time goes on, more of those things that were considered to be anachronisms in the Book of Mormon are being discovered to not be anachronisms after all, such as steel, barley, cement, and more. God's knowledge and wisdom is greater than man's. He hopes we'll trust him and what he reveals to us through his Spirit over what man tells us and the wisdom of the world. The witnesses come after the trial of your faith.

@@josephine79 maybe. Dan is still being misrepresented here, because he is only speaking from his professional capacity on this podcast.

@@josephine79 Steel swords have been discovered in pre-Columbus America? Where is the source? Wheat is still not found in the ancient Americas as the Book of Mormon claims despite saying it was a Nephite staple used to feed millions of people. With respect to barley, a few obscure grains of a wild barley in Arizona does not equate to the domesticated variety supposedly taken from the Holy Land to the Americas and used to feed millions of people in the Book of Mormon setting. The horse, goat, wild goat, and sheep did not exist in the Americas during the Book of Mormon. Please provide specific evidence. WHEELSl. The Book of Mormon described chariots, which obviously required the use of a wheel. There were no wheels used for travel or transportation in pre-Columbian America!! Mormons are calling Tapirs as Horses which is absurd. Tapirs do not pull chariots. Especially chariots without wheels!!! Elephants? Elephants are an anachronism. Chariots? Anachronism. Silk? Anachronism.

@TheMightyJor So you're saying in Dan's professional capacity his information is flawed? Or are you saying that at some point after he says there's no data to support the Book of Mormon he actually says here is the data that supports the Book of Mormon? Because Jack was saying that first, not only did Dan's comments contradict the fact it's scripture which will always require faith to a degree, but that he also wasn't even professionally accurate, because there *is* multiple scientific data out there that supports the Book of Mormon. There's a difference between supports and proves. Any holy scripture will never be able to be proven, only supported. That's the point.

He went on gospel tangents with Rick Bennet and it was pretty good. I find Rick to be a faithful believing member and though he doesn't always have faithful people on his show, Rick never fails to push back on ideas that he finds to be lacking.

Dan also went on Faith Matters. Faith Matters is definitely a more liberal podcast I would still say it is a more "faithful channel." I would definitely say his interviews on Gospel Tangents and on Faith Matters are the most friendly to the church.

@@dinocollins720 there are plenty of LDS scholars who are more than mostly friendly to the church. No thanks on Dan.

@@ClintThomsen not sure I’m totally following what you’re trying to say. But yeah I don’t really understand Dan. Idk why he never talks to lds scholars and why he is soo opposed to sharing his beliefs. I mean he’s still totally active. 🤷‍♂️

@@dinocollins720 how do you know he’s active? I don’t believe it for a second.

It's called one foot out of the Church.

Yep and taking people with him.

@@jaredshipp9207 His body is in the church, meaning he simply attends. That’s all. I was like that for a while. My intent though, has never been to serve as a tripping stone to other people’s faith like Dan and his band of “nuanced” woke-bros and woke-sistas seem to be gleefully executing. Even though I have not completely resolved my own faith and belief struggles, I refuse to present MY doubts to others anymore. It is evil. My wrestle now includes God and God alone.

@@dcarts5616 I appreciate that. I went through some intense wrestles of doubt - have become aware that many people have left the Church for less. I'm really glad I never let a wish to fit in with some cool kids or be seen as clever lead me to weave my private struggles into public spells. I've built my faith and conviction a lot stronger now.

Did you miss the part about the large, previously unknown cities in the Americas found with LiDar scanning? And then there's also the mounds in North America you can google. Things *have* been discovered in the small amount that has been scouted or surveyed that supports the Book of Mormon. We're not saying it proves the Book of Mormon, but supports it as evidence that aligns with what the Book of Mormon says or describes. These are recent discoveries which means it was unknown when the Book of Mormon came out and for years after. And there is also the bulls-eye evidences he talked about found in the Arabian Penensula that follow specific details described in the Book of Mormon of Lehi's journey with his family before they came to the Americas. And just as compelling of evidence - if you want to ignore the evidence of the Nahom, there was even further evidence found more recently there of a gravestone with an ancient inscription dated at the right time with the name Ishmael just as it is described in the Book of Mormon where Ishmael was buried. But people of other faiths will turn a blind eye to that too and other evidences that are just as compelling (that I can share with you if you would like) and that is why in the end it takes a witness from the Holy Spirit from God before people will believe. And this is the kind of people God wants in his church - people of faith that know him and follow him because they trust him over the swaying winds of the world. With what the world gets right it has always had plenty it has gotten wrong or had dismissed until much later. God's wisdom is greater than man's wisdom.

Wow great question, I wanna add to this 1. Way to go statistics to help us to strengthen an argument. Love to see it. 2. I think this cuts to the CORE of what’s most important here. Spiritual direction is horribly unreliable cause our emotions and belief systems are horribly unreliable

May I ask if you are Christian? Do you believe that Jesus healed the lame and blind, rose Lazureth from the dead, and that He was resurrected? The Bible having established places and people doesn't make it true without faith, unless you're saying any tales that happen in established places that includes historical figures can be considered true. Faith is still very needed to believe the Bible is true. Also, I realized I didn't address the original poster's 2nd point. Those things coincide with how our church believes those who don't find the gospel in this life or never heard of Jesus Christ or misunderstood or simply didn't understand His gospel or couldn't for various reasons accept it, aren't automatically going to hell, but will have the opportunity to learn the truth after death before their resurrection and that God bases his judgement off of what understanding and light we each have in this life and whether we are trying to follow the dictates of our conscience or not. God knows all of the factors that influence everything in our lives and takes all of it into consideration. We can also recieve a witness of truth in God's timing if we ask with sincere intent. They may not be ready or God may have a different, specific path and purpose for them for a time before they recieve a witness. And there are some God may not reveal it to in this life for reasons only God knows and then they can learn and accept it after this life. We believe because of the Grace of Jesus Christ all will have the opportunity to know and accept or reject the truth whether it's in this life or after death before their resurrection. We believe there is actual truth which includes science, but science in the mortal realm hasn't figured out everything yet and it's always evolving. God's wisdom is greater than man's. As they mentioned in this vid, as time has gone on there are less and less anachronisms in the Book of Mormon and increasingly more that is supporting the Book of Mormon. Of course the rest of Christianity and the secular world will try to ignore or resist acknowledgement of evidences for the Book of Mormon for a few reasons... 1. If the Book of Mormon is proven true this would support Joseph Smith as a prophet of God which means his account of God the Father and God the Son, Jesus Christ, appearing to him as two seperate personages would be true. 2. If the Book of Mormon is proven true it will prove God and the Bible is true, because it exists by divine means and unequivocally supports that the Bible is true scriptures. 3. If the Book of Mormon is true that means Jesus is the Christ, the promised Messiah. The Book of Mormon is a 2nd witness of Jesus Christ. 4. If the Book of Mormon is true the adversary would do all in his power to cloud that truth and put resistance to it in the minds of the world. I believe the only reasons that any evidences have been revealed that support the Book of Mormon was as a blessing from God to those who have kept the faith without seeing any proof other than a witness from the Holy Spirit and to help give some guidance for those who are sincerely seeking truth who haven't been able to find it yet, but it will still require faith. And it still requires current believers to have faith, which is something God will always require his people to have in this life. If you are Atheist I will ask - do you believe there can exist in the universe a much greater intelligence than us? And if an intelligence has been around for eons could it be reasonable to consider that intelligence may have learned all the laws of the universe such as the laws of nature and the laws of physics? If so would it be reasonable to assume this intellegence can do things that to us would seem magical because we do not understand it yet? And is it possible that intelligence also knows ways to communicate that is outside what science has figured out yet? If you can say yes to these questions then you are not actually an athiest, but, at the very least, Agnostic. For someone to be scientifically minded they cannot be Atheist for these reasons and because God has not been either proven or disproven. But God has given us ways to know for ourselves he is real and of the divinity of Jesus Christ. He communicates this through his Holy Spirit and gave us scriptures and apostles and prophets who are witnesses of God and that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We can talk directly to God in prayer. He gave us a way to follow that blesses our lives with peace, such as the 10 commandments and more which has shown to be tried and true. We can know for ourselves of the truthfulness of God, Christ, and his gospel because he gave us the means to if we sincerely seek it and then patiently wait on him to reveal it. We may also recieve promptings from the Spirit of things we can do to help us recieve an answer if it hasn't come yet. The gospel of Jesus Christ is meant to bless our lives and bring us joy and peace in this life and the next. It is meant to bring us closer to God. If this is something you or anyone reading this desires then I encourage you to find out for yourself by sincerely reading and asking God if the Bible and Book of Mormon are true. God will answer in his time as he has promised and you could gain the greatest treasure which is truth. It is the good news.

Yes, most folks believe that the Bible is at least loosely historical. That can be done without believing in the reality of God and in Jesus Christ's divine nature and resurrection. A major difference between the Bible and the Book of Mormon is that one cannot accept the Book of Mormon as being in any way historical without also accepting the implications of that idea: that God exists, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and was resurrected, that Joseph Smith had a hand in its translation into English, etc., etc. And actually there is a fair amount of evidence in support of the Book of Mormon's plausible historicity, but not enough in a manner to prove it to those not inclined to want to believe it. That is how it should be, given the implications of it's historicity and veracity. Since the Bible can be believed as historical without believing in God, it cannot be treated the same way as the Book of Mormon with that type of comparison.

@@philandrews2860 You said "There is a fair amount of evidence in support of the BOM". Honestly, there are the zero historical artifacts that support BOM history, nor are there even any LDS sponsored archaeological expeditions (I wonder why?) . I think many mormons are coming to the realization that there is no support for BOM history, and therefore are making the leap to "faith in BOM at the expense of reality", and then trying to use that as a sign of "true/pure faith" as if ignoring reality and trusting your feelings is a good thing. Yet, God calls us to know Him by the things created (Romans 1:20) and to search the historical scriptures that testify Jesus is the one and only true God, John 5:39. WOULD YOU ACCEPT THAT THE LACK OF HISTORICAL EVIDENCE "COULD MEAN" THAT JOSEPH SMITH LIED? Could it be true that the reason most growth in the LDS is from briths, is due to LDS brainwashing children to ignore reality?

Yet again, Bud slides in another astute observation!

@@thestickofjoseph @thestickofjoseph Verily, I express gratitude for thine acknowledgment of the words shared. It is indeed a joyful communion when brethren engage in discourse that doth elevate the understanding and affirm the faith we hold dear. Our journey is one of continual enlightenment, where every earnest question and every sincere search for truth doth lead us closer to the Divine. In the work of defending the faith and bearing witness to The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, let us be ever diligent and unwavering. We stand firm not only upon the ground of scholarly research but also upon the rock of revelation which cometh from God and is testified by the Holy Ghost. For it is written in the Pearl of Great Price, "Seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given" (Doctrine and Covenants 46:8). Let our defense be as the sons of Mosiah, who, filled with the spirit of prophecy and revelation, went forth among the people to declare the word unto them (Alma 17:3). And may our words be always seasoned with grace and our testimonies be as a light unto those who may yet come to know the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. May we continue to seek all that is virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy and hold fast to that which is confirmed by the Holy Spirit. For in doing so, we affirm the truth of all things, both seen and unseen, and the eternal reality of Jesus Christ's restored gospel, which shines forth from every page of The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ.