comments are DONE on this video. i do not CARE about your uber casual barely holds his own in damnation opinion. or hearing how you think im an a hole because of how i talk. i want to make something clear. the precision weapons like head hunters are pretty good if you can use them tot heir fullest. my point is other guns can out preform them for literally zero effort. the more brain dead a weapon is the more you can focus on whats around you and what to do next. that is worth alot actually and cant be measured. if you go just by theoretical numbers the head hunters would be really high
Have you tried the weapon customization mod that let's you slap sights on all the guns? Its especially great to have real sights on the headhunters. It might not fully bridge the gap, but the QoL that comes from proper sights on a precision weapon makes it feel much more reliable in practice.
it does. but tbh i view that mod as a little to cheaty for my liking. if fatshark wanted us to be able to do that. they would just turn it on in game. but its off for a reason and i think thats since bad irons is part of how they balance some stuff
TBF this is Fatshark. They were originally planning to have that customization be in the game but couldn't make the cut in time for launch, so they compromised by having different weapon marks instead. The modder just took the framework they already created and made it publicly available to use. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they end up adding proper gun customization in another year or so, simply because its one of those things they drag out for some Swedish reason. I totally get it though, I'm split on whether its cheating or not simply because its half gameplay advantage, half QoL.
dude if sound ques literally just worked how they are meant to that is more op than spidy sense. like did you even think before you posted that? or did you just see it and jump at it wep customization is way more cheaty than spidy sense lmao lights on melee for lights out god like sights for easy aiming. @@whyimhere1509
He’s not here to give good information. He’s here to jerk off to us about how good he is at standard FPS games like fucking cod and insult people who care about the series. Example: 5:47 “Ugh, I’m like better than 70% of you.”
I never quit understood how some vets could just shoot an lmg and kill everything at 10 times the speed of light. I tought they had expertly crafted builds or something. Turns out they just used a columnus.
@@sircrim8694 they should just buff the other autoguns... they just feel like ass to use. i'd rather they not nerf columnus and leave us with the other shitty guns
@Michael5029 nah I honestly don't want them to buff anything unless they add a new difficulty or something because even alruic maelstrom feels too easy
It's pretty shit if you have team mates walking through you 80% of the time while you're holding down M1. That's a big reason to switch to agripinaa as it penetrates.
The rant at the start is fair, but there's a lot of good lists that don't follow that rule and instead base the tiers on how effective, not average effectiveness
Couner intuitively, the braced autoguns have better accuracy when you hip fire. The braced fire mode increases the spread, but changes the pattern to be an oval instead of a triangle.
God I wish the bolter was a bit better. I love the feel of it. It feels like I'm firing a energy drink sized bullet...but hits like wet tissue paper to anything that you should be shooting at.
Bolter is one of the better guns for a Zealot because of the fully different play style and you able to switch and hold your own in melee. But for a Vet it sucks ass because the reload is to long, and clip size is to small to make it an effective gun.
I do have a funny note about the lawbringer shotgun, and that is the interaction between the nodes weapons specialist with the ranged reload extra, deadshot, and the shotgun blessings flechette and man-stopper. You need three stacks of the perk to get a 100% crit chance with what I belive to be infinite cleave. Deadshot is just a bonus to help with the follow up. Simply meelee some dudes, pull up the shotgun and blast a few times to max out bleed on anything in front of you. Bonus points if you load the special and do "a little trolling" to hordes. The only caveat is both blessings for the shotgun being T2, which means Hadron cannot help you get them. This should make any reasonable person moderately pissed. Took me four days of camping the armoury addon. Credit to Telopots for enlightening me to the build.
This is the real way to run them. But oh my god it is so much effort and investment. When a meta gun can be pretty much as effective as a grey item with no talents. Thats my ENTIER point
There is a way around the camping. If you have a Vet or Zealot at like lvl 15 you are able to purchase a shotgun and hadron will give you only tier 2 blessings (at least when I tried that)
Hey man, learning quite a bit from your tips and info, but your tone sounds angrier than a ogryn that missed breakfast. I totally get not giving a crap about what people think of you, but there can be an excess both ways. Again, thanks for the content.
Honestly looking at how some of the people in the community act towards the meta, some of them need to have the point getting across to them instead of just dismissing anyone who says that so-and-so meta isnt necessarily the best and has flaws.
The Mk VII HAG really confused me for a long time, because whenever I'd use it my DPS would bounce between incredible and terrible, I'd delete gunners super quickly because I had the space to aim, but then couldn't use it successfully on anything that moves. This clears up why.
hope you do one of these for the rest of the classes, i have some thoughts on the agripinaa combat shotgun but it just pairs god awful on vet, its way better on zealot
Thank you for all of your hard work plus happy New Year’s + Tanner ? I’m actually making content. How do you put on? Commentary Honestly, have no idea 🤷♂️ but you extremely gifted Nayon, genius on games ! I do know what you’re talking about in your videos to a point. You and I are very different I just enjoy your voice and all of your knowledge. Truly wish u To achieve your dreams, all of your goals For whatever they are Regardless of the New Year’s or not I was thinking about you.
+ agree with you on the shotties and carpal tunnel. We need that Scab Shotgunner's Drum mag pump-action shotgun because it looks sweet + drum mag means a ton of ammo. I wish the MGIV infantry lasgun was 3-round burst because Scab Stalkers have the same gun but on 3-round burst mode.
What drives my choice between Infantry and Braced autogun are the map and modifiers. On maps without extended ranged combat, or maps with close quarter gauntlets, I'm more confident with braced for the marginally higher dps. On maps where I know there will be like 20 gunners in a spot I can't reach, I pick Infantry for consistent and accurate dps.
I like that you mentioned that Kantrael and Lucius Lasguns are in a good spot where they are - being 'average'. Because its somewhat lore accurate, they do their job well and imo any buff to them would make them feel off. Speaking of lore accurate - in a 40K game a bolter should never be a D tier weapon. The developers shouldn't nerf it so much just to balance it with something like a laspistol. They are not in a same league and they shouldn't be even comparable. To be fair the bolter is not made for human sized soldiers so its okay that its heavy, slow and clunky to operate but once you pull the trigger it should delete everything it hits (increased sway and recoil is also fine). But in a game like this where the bolter is available only to two of the human sized classes and its fast paced and action packed, we should get the pistol variant of it that would fit these human characters more in most scenarios (boltpistol would have the same power but smaller clip, would be lighter, with faster reload and faster draw time, more movement speed etc.) That would be more of an S tier candidate imo than a full sized bolter that our human struggles to operate. All that being said the big bolter still deserves the buffs to put it in the A tier.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you here, just pointing out that the bolters used in Darktide are specifically made for humans and are the ones the Sisters of Battle use. The bolters made for Space Marines are absolutely impossible to wield for normal sized humans and firing them would dislocate their arms.
@@clawmb oh thanks for the info. I heard it from someone when the game came out and since then I was convinced that we have got the space marine version. Sorry for the misinformation. To be fair the human version is also huge so would like to see a pistol version of it for more dynamic playstyles.
I don't think a tier list has to follow a bell curve, depending on how you choose to approach it. If you're holding the weapons relative to one another in performance, then absolutely, a bell curve is inevitable, but if you're holding them relative to their capacity to reasonably beat the game, then you can definitely skew things heavily to one side or another. I paused the video to comment then you sort of addressed it seconds later fuck.
I fucking love the bolter. I play maelstrom missions and I hog the kill feed. It just needs faster pullout time, ammo economy to keep with the newly buffed plasma gun but IMO I think it’s more fun to use than the plasma gun. Shotguns all need crazy buffs even though the kantrael is awesome on zealot
I primarily use the bolter, if you stumble across a group of ogryns or elites and line them up properly you can activate sharpshooter and mow them down in seconds... It's a good feeling to fill the killfeed entirely. Imo I feel like this video was mostly just bitching that all the guns are not as good as the top two while also stating in the primer that not every gun can be top tier, but also stating every gun is viable. Maybe I'm just tone deaf but it seems like a whole lot of contradictory takes and complaining for the sake of complaining. Just my two cents, not trying to be insulting here.
Why would a tier list follow a bell curve? It's a subjective assessment of artificial constructs that are judged in relation to each other. Not a random sampling of observations or values independent of each other. I mean if a normal distribution is inherent to weapon balance why are you so angry? There would be no possibility of balance if that were the case.
Wait, I don't understand why you rated the Lasgun MXII above the Ia, considering the difference between the Ia and MXII is literally about 30-40 damage, which means the IA is just straight up better in terms of damage because it has that higher rate of fire and not-very noticeable difference in recoil.
Been loving the videos,finally good info and no bs "builds", your the first darktide youtuber I actually subbed to but I watch a lot of other mid videos others before
I would say I hate when people act like he does, but then I’d hate myself when I play video games. Never seen someone get their point across more clearly.
If an effect is deterministic and not rng, then it's not a proc. It's just triggered/activated/enabled. Proc (programmable RANDOM occurrence) is when something happens by chance, like a crit. People using this word wrong triggers my autism. (notice how it doesn't proc my autism.) Crits are the most famous procs, like our Sun is the most famous star.
Agrapina braced is my go to. I swear bracing it makes it more innacurate (source: just feels like that.) If i need to precise i just tap but most of the time I throw smoke on people and activate counterfire. I wouldnt say it's a top teir set up but I make it work. The strat with it is to just walk at people and shoot.
So I get way less kills on specials with Bolter gun than on plasma cuz it fires so weird but I can see how it kills in less shots so how does that work
I used to run columbus IAG pre-buff, because I personally love rapid fire, recoil management and conserving my ammo. Then they practically doubled the ammo, making the gun god-tier, I hope columbus gets a slight nerf to damage and ammo, like 10%dmg and 10% ammo. It would still be A tier. If the shotties get buffed, I'm putting my meta sets on the bench.
Im curious to why Stub Revolver would be B tier, with surgical and more rending on crit strikes it has really good ammo efficiency imo and one shots specialists on sight. Survivalists also refils 1 bullet each time seems to refund its ammo cost Perhaps the reload time would be part of the answer
I love 40k! I get that some people are like that, "space marin!", but generalizing like that is not optimal when reaching out to a huge community. Now that that is out of the way, I like your takes on the tierlist and I 100% agree that the IG autoguns are lit! I was not aware that the reconlasguns were performing well? It might be a preference issue or maby bias from other patches.
What does it say about me that every single weapons you put in tiers D and below (except the heavy laspistol) are some of my favorite in the game and that run them all the time?
That's more or less a sane tier list, but I'd disagree with some things. If you did a more in-depth review - tested on different enemies, and observed weapon breakpoints, you'd rearrange some of the weapons. Heavy accatran laspistol is definitely A tier. It has flak damage modifiers and always one-shots scab shooters to the head, 3-taps scab gunners and kills reapers very fast. It has insane DPS against gunners even if you body-shot them (1000-1200 DPS), kills bombers fast since they are flak armor and IMO it's the best weapon for veteran, since it deals with the threat the veteran should be dealing with in first place. Also it has best sights in the game, lightweight and agile. Also has a huge range, I can kill things at 70m. Also, it has better ammo economy than revolver. Bolter and autopistol should be swapped. Bolter is quite precise on the first shot if you ADS, you can deal with snipers with bolter. If you have autopistol, on other hand, your options are limited to shooting yourself in the head before the sniper gets you. Lucius tho, are all F-tier and below if you do more in-depth testing. Grey Mk I and Mk 2 can't body-shot common shooters with charged shot, but they also can't headshot them with uncharged shots. Mk 3 has long charge time and bad ammo economy for dealing with shooters. All of them have terrible draw time for fast-paced Darktide. All of them have huge recoil and sway, terrible sights and their close-range precision is worse than that of braced autoguns. Oh and the charge mechanic, where you have to ADS+charge to deal with any enemy, and if the enemy is 70m behind cover or they are behind VFX like fire you can't just blind-fire in their direction like with fast shooting guns like columnus or laspistol, or take a good aim like with revolver to deal with bomber/flamer. The only upside is that you can, theoretically, deal with crushers better than infantry lasguns. But it's still worse than plasma or bolter or krak grenades at dealing with crusher trains and just can't deal with bulwarks at all. I suggest you do more in-depth testing of Helbore lasguns and make a video on how bad they actually are if you take random grey ones from the store.
It appears this video is only 9 days old but you did not mention the Alt-fire of the shotguns at all. Especially the Agripina Alt Fire with its ability to stagger just about anything and knock Bulwark Shields out of the way. Not to mention the spread of the Agripina being fairly small which makes it more consistent in triggering Full Bore. It can one shot any Elite if you get a headshot with the Alt Fire Would you say the Agripina is viable or still not great? Genuinely curious on your thoughts and not just looking to argue. Im not emotionally attached to shotguns just looking for further insights
its an incredibly ammo efficient headshot machine. the spread tightens when you aim down sight. the Special ammo is slow firing and a bit clunky but the best of all shotguns. The stagger is amazing. but Raw damage wise its kind of lackluster.
Good, actual breakdowns of how they work and overall operational capabilities. Been looking for this. I really wish we could get better sights on the autoguns... I wonder how much difference there is in the list between PC (where your playing obviously) and on, say, Xbox (where I play with my friends for the most part). Im sure the Xbox port is neutored to the 9s but.
Xbox and PC are the same, it's not like Vermintide where the difference was enemy health was 5.5% higher on console, PC and Xbox are literally the same in everything.
Sad that the bolter isn't better. I've been playing my Ogryn exclusively but a few days ago got my Veteran leveled up to get the bolter thinking it would be awesome. But the fact that it's super slow to switch and requires a headshot to kill most special stuff makes it hard to justify using. There's lots of stuff that can switch faster, can one shot headshot, and has other things going for it.
you will note when comparing the agripinaa iag to brauto the brauto suppressed the reaper after like 4 shots. If there were two more reapers and some gunners next to him you could suppress them all. Now i am a shitter and i suppose probably its best to just kill things as fast as possible, but ive had times where ive suppressed and killed entire groups of reapers+gunners by just spraying them down and keeping them suppressed. The suppression lasts a long time and you can juggle targets and its still doing decent damage to them. It also lets you just barge in since against anything with guns you are basically a free smite psyker passively
Hope y'all know that you can ignore the meta and use a specific weapon just because, you know, you like it? Sometimes harder to use weapons are funnier and more rewarding than meta guns. Don't get into meta too much, just play the weapon you like as you like
Love 40k for how insane it is and how deep the rabbit hole goes, and while Krieg is very overrated and it gives me pain..... The charged shots and sound design on the Lucius make it a favorite, even if it's not optimal. Just got that deel ya know.
You know, I used to play Destiny, and in regards to having to press to fire every single time for semi automatic weapon, it does suck. As it does in every game where you have a DMR or any semi auto weapon (that is not a sniper or a shotgun) where you might want to spam your shots as fast as possible. In Destiny, they eventually added in a full auto trigger mod (there were small bonus perks you can change on weapons called mods, did stuff like increase mag size and such, not 3rd party mods). And now, being that I don't touch my toes in there anymore, I believe that all semi autos work now so that holding down the trigger will fire the weapon at the maximum rate of fire for that weapon archtype. Essentially, where you would have to click 4 times in a second to fire 4 shots for that particular weapons rate of fire (you could not make it shoot any more rounds per second than that), you now need to only hold the trigger down and it would shoot at intervals allowed. Again, it did not make the gun shoot faster (like what was witnessed with your 3rd party mod), it simply made it so that instead of having to press to fire every time, you only had to hold to fire and it would plink away at the same speed. Though the same issue occurs with melee with no work around, you will have to click away. Because holding and pressing do two different things. But something is something, and carpal tunnel is a real thing. So some break from having to press a button over again and again is appreciated, but taking actual breaks away from the keyboard is best. That and good self care, eat good and stretch. Do not become a blob.
Awesome! When i started playing everyone was praising shotties, picked up one took me several shots to kill a mob and said fuck this shit! Have been using the 5 shooter (sub revolver) and the plasma ever since. But i am so bored with the game i want to find other weapons to use. Since most of them are LITERAL SHIT i will take your word for the best one.
MG12 Lasgun is S tier if head shots are easy for you and choose the weak spot damage perks for your build. Dropping reapers with a few head shots is so op its almost funny. The 1 thing that is a threat to you is ragers but if you use the deathclaw 4 then a heavy attack with its added reach and then your ult counter will kill a rager without the head for a headshot with your sword. Not that hard to do even with several of them on you. Hell if you build for a commando build with all the melee perks that add damage and weakspot damage you can 1 shot a mutant with a headshot with the +25% damage to maniacs. Feel like a samurai pulling this off on a charge.
Disclaimer: I didn't watch all the video, I just jumped to see the tier list and listen to about a minute of talk. So I do not know why the video has so many negative votes on it. That said, he's not wrong about Columnus IAG. Half a minute with it in Psykhanium and you can tell it's an absolute monster killer. Everything but Carapace is instantly deleted, and even vs a Crusher, you can still mag dump the face and kill one on a full mag.
it's pretty simple honestly when you're dealing with the 40K community if you say anything isn't good you will automatically be berated by a bunch of people who have made that entire thing their identity The simple truth of the matter is most people are just really bad at the game because they're fans of the setting and they're not exactly fans of the game itself so the idea of trying to like rate the usefulness of one thing versus another thing is just controversial in its own right look at all the tearless videos that have really high like to dislike ratios the trend amongst all of them is they put 90% of the items in a or S tier so actually trying to seriously rate things is always going to piss people off. only broken items can be s tier and theres currently only 2 broken guns
As egotistical as it sounds it really does just come down to people being stupid they see an item in B tier and assume that means it's bad when in reality I think B tears literally perfectly balanced and should not be changed in any way they're so used to the average dark tide content creator sucking off everything to the point where literally useless items that will receive us 50% damage buff in the next patch will get called S Tier and then people will be like why did this get buffed so much because people who actually tried to do challenge runs and pushed the game to its limits recognized right away that things like shotguns are kind of awful. But people have the one build that they personally really enjoy and think is really fun and when you say that's not actually that effective compared to this boring meta op item it just triggers an emotional response look at my catalog of videos the ones that talk about the basics just by the books here's the mechanic side of things they're all like 99% like to dislike ratio anything that involves me talking about the meta or just literally saying look this item literally just has more ammo and deals more damage like it's literally just mathematically better in every way that always gets disliked it doesn't matter if literally every major streamer agrees with what I'm saying and we all literally say the same thing about some of these items you have people who feel like they know better despite never even attempting a solo or a duo or anything they won't even use the scoreboard mod I literally get comments From people who tell me that I'm wrong because they use X thing that I said is bad and they do just fine with it But when I asked for some evidence like a scoreboard screenshot they always say something like 0 I don't use that mod it's entirely the Dunning Kruger effect people who have never done any kind of challenge run or have any statistics to back up anything they're saying they just see their favorite toy being called not the greatest thing in the game and they have an emotional reaction that is literally entirely what it comes down to Its why I completely despise 40K fans most of them are literal man children who latch on to things and just never let it go nobody in their right mind will tell you right now that the plasma gun and the mark 5 infantry gun are not literally broken overpowered compared to everything else literally nobody no one in their right mind would even attempt to tell you that if they're trying to sell you on the idea that their opinions are valuable and they know what they're talking about but oh the You Tube commenters the people who don't even have a 50% male storm win rate with four players they'll go talk to the people who beat it with just one or two people and say nah you don't know what you're talking about only in 40K is this kind of ignorance like a thing on mass
Good takes. Tired of every gaming community and guide having this fake and useless positivity. This "oh u can use anything and play however you want" crap should be left for support group gatherings. Though judging by the comments and like-to-dislike ratio here, plenty of people need their soft lidl teddie bearie just because a catboy-looking-mofo on the interwebs was real with them for half a minute lmao
I am one of those man childs and 39. I have to say that that as a die hard warhammer fan i am depressed about most weapons. Plasma would destroy everything without a void shield or meters of armor. The bolter would one shot ragers no matter what armor they wear. Max two shots. But i dont cry to sleep, i simply use weapons that are good. Plasma is still good but nothing what it would be in the lore. Power sword is my favourite melee weapon in the lore but what am i using ingame? A freakin shovel lol
Surely you didn't place the Kantreal Mk X Heavy LasPistol in D tier. It belongs in A or B tier. Not only do you get nearly identical mobility traits to the combat knife but it never runs out of ammo, has the potential to hit like a truck against any enemies outside of crushers with the right build, can just about one shot snipers across the map, has god tier stability for popping crits, has high crit chance that procs Infernus consistently and finally it can be switched to in a second to pop any incoming specialists while dealing with a horde. While it doesn't clear hordes of crushers it certainly can hold its own against elites and specials with relative ease. Definitely not D tier.
it very much has ammo problems. and yes it CAN hit like a truck. but MOST of your hits are like a wet noodle also infernus isnt good for vet at all. go in the training room look at its max stacks of damage its practically nothing.
@@TannerLindbergI agree, Infernus isn't the best blessing for it, a much better one is Ghost for countering ranged enemies. I'm not sure the old LasPistol is an upgrade to the Mk X, the recoil seems much more manageable on the Mk X and crits seem to proc more than the old LasPistol, but the rate of fire is pretty quick on the old one so maybe I need to do some testing again. That said, with Precision Strikes, Longshot and Superiority Complex the Mk X is a monster and even without those the Mk X is still reliable enough to be used on a melee build for countering gunners/snipers. As for ammo, I never run out and I'm able to drop chaff shooters so my team doesn't have to waste their ammo on them. Even while using ammo on them, I'll still have enough ammo for specs/elites on HISG with just the Scavenger Aura.
I would like to point out that you didn't exactly use the shotgun at it's most effective range (as far as I can tell); the spread was pretty wide, and I could have sworn you hit enemies in a different column in the first demonstration. From playing other fps games, I have come to realize that shotguns operate best at 2-3 meters away from the intended target - and yes, I'm pretty sure this runs against most of the whole point of the veteran class, unless you're doing a silly melee build or something (note: I'm not actually all that familiar with this game, so I might actually be full of shit. feel free to yell at me in the comments for it). anyway, point is: shotgun bad at range; what about closer up in the enemy's face? Even with random bullet spread...
Mrrrrh~ You offer valid points and knowledge, but listening to you feels like chewing glass. Putting other people down for their hobbies doesn't make your arguments more persuasive, rather the opposite. You can be 1000% correct about something, but if you present your points as an asshole, most people will not listen. Which would be counterproductive to your goal, which is (I assume) to help people get good. I've read in your comments that you don't mean malice, "you just talk that way". I'd urge you to talk in your videos the same way you do when you talk to people in real life. Something tells me you don't run your mouth as much when you talk to others in person, so the transition should not be difficult.
Funnily enough, he's actually wrong about that, a tier list doesn't have to have a bell curve, it depends on what is actually ranked. If you compare the weapon to each other's, yes, bell curve (or reverse bell curve if the balancing team is really bad). However, if you measure the ability of weapons to clear the game, It can actually look like anything. Not saying this is the case in dark tide, just that it actually depend what you choose to mesure.
@@chronic6428 That's a bit like saying all runners are the best if they can finish a 100 meter dash. If the criteria for being S tier is being able to finish Auric missions then every gun is S tier. But even then some of the guns can complete auric faster and/or easier and those should go on the S tier while harder to use gear goes into C or D tier, not because it's unusable but purely because it's harder to make it work.
@@chronic6428 You said this. "However, if you measure the ability of weapons to clear the game, It can actually look like anything." In context of someone complaining about tier lists being very A and S tier heavy. _ If all weapons are very good and able to clear the game then logically being very good is the average and you need to look for minute advantages and disadvantages of each to find any outliers.
@@Sonlirain not if it's relative to the ability of said weapons to clear max difficulty. If for example every weapon was capable of easily clearing auric and you are evaluating mission success rate according to the weapon usef, then most weapons would be in higher tiers, that's pure logic. There is absolutely no reason that every tier list should follow a bell curve every time. None whatsoever. It purely depend on what your are mesuring.
"you got guys in their 40s that are like so so obsessed with their Space Marines that if you even suggest that they might lose a fight they'll like flip the table on you " considering the 40k universe thats pretty comical, i know the blue boys got some plot armour but there so many stronger forces in the universe.
I would argue the bolter will out dps the plasma gun if you take advantage of the reload speed talents because plasma has to vent. If you put the autopistol in c tier I don't see how the bolter can be below that. Also, because columnus is just so broken I think you should take it out of the equation when comparing weapons because it is definitely getting a nerf.
Honestly focusing a build around a gun seriously effects how effective each one is, so I'm surprised it wasn't brought up... my friend uses the hellbore with a few Perks that basically gives it unlimited ammo.
Great vid (slightly salty that my comfort picks of the Headhunters are so low but in my heart I can't say you're wrong!) - I feel the lower tier guns like the Lucius II and HHs suffer from being focussed around "shooter management" more so than general use. The Vraks 7 for instance is one of the best guns in the game for quickly clearing out a room of dreg shooters if you're precise... but it just suffers a lot against maniacs and is unusable on carapace so it just drops in value so highly. Also the "normal shooter management" role seems to have been diluted somewhat since the early days where that was the main reason you brought a Veteran. Nowadays every class has some way of dealing with that so you need versatility.
You made that statement as if its expected for the weapon to behave rhat way , when the real thing its modeled on acrs a different way. I donf get where the expectation comes from.
