Dear Rudy: A store DESTROYED my magic cards 

Unless they kept the real cards, and sent back cut fake cards...

Moral of the story: Don't send thousands of dollars worth of cards to people you don't know through the mail

My concern is the store sent him back different cards that were fake...pocketed the real ones. How do you prove the returned cards are the same ones?

Speaking as someone who is NOT a lawyer or legal expert, even if the cards were counterfeit, the owner sent them to the store in order to perform an evaluation on their authenticity. They did not belong to the store, so the store had zero rights to alter or destroy the cards. It's not a crime to get counterfeit cards evaluated and the fact that he was getting them evaluated for authenticity is proof that the owner probably had no intention of selling counterfeit cards. As powerless as it might make stores feel when dealing with obvious scammers, the reality is that destroying fake cards that don't belong to you is still destruction of property. Only if the individual makes an attempt to sell counterfeit cards do they actually break the law by committing attempted fraud. This is very different from Rudy getting fan mail and cards, because there's no service contract there. There's no expectation of fulfilling some service of signing cards or whatever. It's just something nice. In this instance, I would assume that since there's a clear service contract between the owner and store on evaluating the cards, the store destroying them is extremely shady business practice that's very likely illegal. The likelihood that the store did in fact pocket real cards and send back destroyed fakes is worrisome because the likelihood that another store would randomly do a minimal evaluation on cards and pass fakes and offer a large sum of money is basically zero. Most stores I would assume have some pipeline or dedicated procedures for evaluating card authenticity well before making an offer. I'm not saying misidentification of counterfeits isn't possible, but if several stores made these offers, then that's several pairs of eyes who have independently evaluated the authenticity of those cards, there's probably enough opinions there to safely assume that the cards are indeed real. Now, when going to a different store asking for authenticity and they claim that they're fake, then we have a problem. Someone here is wrong and it would be very smart to get a second opinion, at this point probably from an actual card grader, before making and irrational decisions like destroying the cards. The fact that this store claimed the cards were fake after several other stores validated the authenticity are one thing, but immediately moving to shove everything under the rug and destroy the cards so the owner can never get a second opinion is beyond horrifying. And only after much fighting with the store did he finally get the destroyed fakes back, but as Rudy points out, these were obvious fakes. These weren't good enough to fool probably a dozen store owners at once. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. But it's extremely improbable that such bad fakes would fool experienced card store owners. If this guy's story is true, and this entire argument relies on him actually telling the truth, then I would bet a large sum of money that this last store took the cards and sent back destroyed fakes in order to pocket a huge profit. I have no idea what kind of legal recourse the owner can take in this situation, but given the fact that he potentially lost tens of thousands of dollars to a store scamming him by sending him back destroyed fakes, I would definitely be looking for something. So many facts don't add up and it all revolves around the store's "quick let's destroy it and say there's nothing we can do" attitude is so far beyond suspicious that it's probably criminal.

Never heard of such law where they were required to cut up the cards. I suggest for that person to get into Contact with a lawyer at least.

“Found on the ground” Little does Rudy know this guy was testing his fake worn cards to see if Rudy would think it’s real.

*Plot Twist* The Lotus kid is trying to make realistic fakes and just sent it to Rudy to be appraised :D

So I'm not in this scene, but how does it sound like a good idea to *send expensive items, of over $10k in value, via mail to someone, who specialises in selling said items?*

I’ve had both fake GOLD and fake cards evaluated several dozen times. I sent them in for that exact reason, I needed to know if the items I was working with was authentic. I have NEVER EVER HAD ANY OF MY MERCHANDISE REFUSED TO BE RETURNED FOR ANY REASON. Even before I developed good working relations several shops. Every single item was returned to me to do with as I saw fit. If that store had sent me back $12000 in fake destroyed cards that I was very positive were real, simply put I would kill them, slow.

"Is my Black Lotus real?" *sees the card: "It doesn't matter at this point.."

Issue with those cut cards is that the cards he sent could have been 100% legit. The place could have just said what they said and just cut and returned the fake cards..keeping the REAL ones. Since he is not there while the process takes place it is fishy as eff

I found a taco on the ground outside Taco Bell. Is it an authentic 1980’s taco from Mexico?

But were they the same cards they sent in? What if they kept the real ones and sent back the cut up counterfeits

Rudy out here teaching people how to do fake wear and tear

I remember when I was a kid a long time ago. I played with counterfeit decks with my friends. We all knew they were conterfeit, but it did not make it less fun. We were pretty broke and legit magic cards did cost a fortune in Brazil back then.

In Germany counterfeits must be destroyed by government entities but a privat company would not be allowed to do so on its own. They would have to file a complaint with customs which then decides and carries out the task.

So this is how stores are able to get their money back when they buy fakes...when real cards show up destroy the fakes and mail them out and keep the real cards. Point: NEVER send cards out in the mail. Sell your cards for cash only locally...got it.

Easy precaution: take high resolution scans of what you’re sending in. Then you can verify the ones sent back are the same ones. Hell, I video the few payments I send in with money orders, right up to the moment I’ve sealed them in the envelope and drop them into the slot.

"Found it on the ground" is kid-speak for "I stole this"

12K worth of cards is a lot to be messing around with. It's also a huge amount to send via the mail and trust that someone along the lines isn't going to try and screw you. So duel perspectives here. 1st - Dude did send in fake cards, store rightly tries to get them out of circulation so that no one else is screwed by this, the email argument was legit and they did right to stand their ground on the issue. 2nd - Dude sent in real cards, store seeing how much they're worth claims they're fake and that they've been destroyed, store has just conned someone out of 12k. Email back and forth goes on for a long time while store gets set of fake cards ready to send back to back up their claim. That's both of what I think could have happened. Though things to note with this. First, with the amount of money in play here NEVER let the items out of your sight. You need to protect your investment because as much as we would love everyone to be on the up and up that just isn't the case and as soon as they leave your sight you've lost all control over your own property. Second, the store needs it to be video documented from the moment they receive the cards to the moment they can be seen as fake and clearly show the seller why they're fake. In most cases this will elminate the sellers feelings that they're being screwed over.

Sue them. Simple as that. They don't have the right even if they are not original. Your property.

You could say they really cut corners on that fake Black Lotus lol

My LGS told a guy all his cards are fake based on a light test and then showed him a real one… and it did the same thing. Then they pulled out another card from the same set… and it did the same thing. On the third card it actually did what they said and tried to act like the first two didn’t happen. They then tried to cut them in half but stopped when he threatened to call the cops for property destruction. There were like 6 real duel lands, and a few cards from the older sets like legends and Revised/beta. The biggest problem is that that store doesn’t have any singles competition in my city of over 2 million people.

That card made for you is wicked cool. Well done. Sad that stuff like this happens to people.

The takeaway is never send valuable cards to a store over the internet. I'd imagine a decent percentage of stores will keep the cards and send back fakes.

what am I doing here, I've never even played MtG

Honestly, those stores got lucky. Waiting for unset Owner of Timmy's Emporium, planeswalker card.

They may be fake, but it has to be illegal to destroy someone else’s property.

I have to wonder if the shop switched the cards for counterfeits and now have original cards and sent back counterfeits

0:23 - Damn Rudy, comin out with the roast. Someone's taco is extra hard today...

This is my second video I have watched of yours and I'm already hooked, Love these videos

Destroying something that's someone's is definitely wrong, doesn't matter fake or real

What if the ones he sent was real, but they switched em to these "fake" cards, and sent that back?. Now that is also a scenario i could imagine couldv happened,

Rudy, mom said to stop making videos and come upstairs for dinner.

the basement troll card made this video! lmfao I have not played this game in years but love your videos. I enjoy the artwork and your humor lmao

Me and my buddy actually used to play on the concrete part of our playground in the shade and our cards were rubbed like that from taps and attack motions. I had some cards get bent like that too where we just kept our decks in our backpacks. But those cut corners are strange, and the edges would be more frayed.

In my state at least if gold or silver is brought into a pawn shop and tested to be fake with their sigma, they have a legal obligation to not give it back, and to dispose of it. The cutting fake cards thing might be related to that sort of legislation.

Big money to be had if a store in Texas destroyed the cards. It is illegal to destroy any personal property without permission or court order, Unless you agree to some terms that are binding upon sending in the cards. Always read fine print.

Absolutely love your attention to detail in this channel.

I have to say that I love the Look of worn cards. Just warms my heart from all the nice memories...

Reminds me of the time I saw a picture of Chaos Orb in a magazine, I cut It out and tapped it onto a plains. It was so obvious it was fake lol.

Be careful when ripping other peoples “property”

I always hope you find occasions to pull out that Jay's tome just to hear ya say it. Ty

The dots on the back of the lotus are from fingertips pressing on the card, even if you think you are 'aging' the card you are simply sanding in 3-5 spots. VERY easy to recognize sign of intentionally damaged card

just letting people know a lot of the time when people cut the corners on cards it's used a lot by magicians use it for slight of hand or magic tricks its known as trimming the deck or card so if you put it in a dec there will be a slight indent in the deck telling you exactly where that key card is in the deck at any time

Did anyone notice that troll card had an uncanny resemblance to Rudy? Nobody could fake that!🤑

Rudy, your awesome for doing these videos about cards etc. I don't even play Magic, well back in the day once or twice with a basic deck from a friend with a friend....but its cool, I'm 39 now and wish we had this platform to share etc back in the late 80s early 90s about cards in general

the tacos troll premium special limited release!! how much did you sacrifice to obtain that card

If those cut cards had been real I would have cried.

Now you have to wonder if the store sent back the original cards or just cut up fakes

Tgis is my first time here and... cool video! I really enjoyed! You just got a new subscriber.

3:09 you can also see that the wear has what looks like the fingers of the person who scratched the card up

What if someone who bought a fake wanted to sue who they bought it from? How can they do that if the grading companies are destroying evidence?

I would have tempted to open up a case with the people who destroyed the cards saying "I gave you real cards, you swapped them wtih fakes, and sent me back destoryed fakes." Worth a shot.

Just found your channel. I didnt know i much I missed playing. I started playing back in alpha/beta

I had a teacher rip up my magic cards back in the 90s. She thought us that played were satan worshipers.

I just dont get how you could be allowed to destroy someone else's property. So it was fakes, but he could use them as proxies. If you wanna do that quality proxies on your own they are gonna be quite expensive unless you work in a printing shop.

Whenever you ask the audience if we can see the core paper, I can, and I don’t have the best vision.

The easiest way to spot the new fakes, if they're minty, is by looking at the way they were cut from the back. The entire edge of the card around the back side is slightly upturned, whereas normal magic cards only have a slight upturn on the very corners and the rest of the edges are completely flat on both the front and back sides. If they get a bunch of natural wear, though, it can become difficult to spot some of them. I got a fake Firestorm from Weatherlight the other day that literally looks exactly like the real Firestorm aside from the way the card was cut - that was the only way I could tell them apart without destroying both cards to see the core. Kinda freaky.

Idk I just clip the corners sometimes because the edges would fray and I wanted to try and stop it from spreading. I was told later its a cheating tactic to mark cards or something.

I feel like any online store can be untrustworthy especially around cards like the power nine. I mean they could literally have like hundreds of counterfeits on hand so they can get free $2,000 cards.

Dont you just love it when you are walking down the street and see a MTG card lying on the ground?

Hey Rudy, Now that I cant leave my house is that going to have a positive or negative effect on the value of my cards?

From what I can tell from the law that's referenced (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or anything), it refers to the governments responsibilities in a court of law to determine whether there was actual criminal intent behind the sale of a counterfeit product. I could be wrong in my interpretation (I'm not even sure that I found the law itself, or just a reference to it), so I'll post what it says, verbatim from the department of justice website: In order to establish the criminal offense under 18 U.S.C. § 2320, the government must prove: (1) that the defendant trafficked or attempted to traffic in goods or services; (2) that such trafficking, or attempt to traffic, was intentional; (3) that the defendant used a "counterfeit mark" on or in connection with such goods or services; and (4) that the defendant knew that the mark so used was counterfeit.

Rudys really desperate for views if hes putting out someones fake story

God my hatred of counterfeits and my love of individual rights is is at such a war right now.

Do you have an update to this? Did they get their own cards back or did they sue?

So if i send in my book full of yugioh cards what would you do to them since they all real and rare? So do you rate them and send them back or what is your channel about im new?

I have a feeling that the company he sent them to sent back fake cards and kept the real ones

Hear me out. What stops a company from keeping your real cards worth thousands then sending you back cut up counterfeits. How can you prove what happened and protect yourself?

That Lotus is what you would get send on Ebay declared as Near Mint condition.

I had this playing in the background and the term "Weremarks" caught my attention LOL!! Ooooooooh, wear marks!!!!

What if he got hosed? What if they sent him fake cards back and kept the real ones 😳

so what if they just kept the actual real beta cards that he actually did hit the jackpot and they sent him back some fakes they already had, this is why i would never see big cards through mail lol

Rudy’s basement troll as requested watched till the end. Always appreciate the long form thank you.

I was once at a card shop playing magic and someone stole my deck, haven't played card games since but still try to collect

There is no way he tested those with a loupe. Any fake card under a loupe is obvious.

Hmm, what if he send real cards and the store claims them fake keeping the real ones, send back fake ones and just fraud your subscribers by 12000$

I used to play this back in like 2006-8? Had a baddass deck, are them cards worth anything now days?

Is this ultra rare foil a spoiler for a new set? Return to Neckbeard?

9:35 Not a lawyer but this is pretty clear. Still theft to keep anything you do not own. And it is illegal to destroy property you do not own. So you would have to pay for the destroyed property and if it is fake then it is worth only the paper it is made of and usually that is about nothing. This is a loss that is unrecoverable because there is no actual value to the item. And the maximum reward would be the value of the paper and ink - basically nothing. I can’t see any way to recover and you NEVER would get the value of the real card. However never destroy anything someone gives you to evaluate unless you tell them up front that you may destroy it. You owe a duty of care when you do that kind of service and so it is reasonable that the person may want it back to get a second opinion (even when that is not going to change anything). The only possible way this kind of thing goes to court is if the person tried to sell you the card (that is fraudulent) and that can cause a case with penalties that they would have to deal with that could be fines or even possible jail time. Ripping the card is the least thing to worry about there.

i remember back when Pokemon cards 1st came out i had a 1st edition Charizard i had every shiny in 1st set so i took them it into a card shop to see how much they would give me for the whole set the guy said he would give me 150$ but he just wanted to go get his glasses to check something he took my Charizard with him and tried to replace it with a normal one i was only 13 i got to the door and was about to walk out when i realized and i fucking went nuts he wasnt going to give it back till my dad jump the counter and all most snapped his neck he went out of business 3months later. there is some dodgy people out there.

So Rudy's face was put on the Basement Troll card? Amazing!

That basement troll is the bomb! I would definitely play it in all my decks :)

I want that! (the "rare" foil).

I really like that basement troll card.

I kinda want to start dropping some of those black cores I bought in front of my lgs

I'd LOVE to have that Troll card Dude!!!

Imagine you just *find* a Lotus on the ground lol

I'm not sure there's a law that would allow a company to destroy the cards, sounds like something an agency should do on their behalf. I would go to the store and rip of their cards in half and say its your policy to rip cards in half if they do it to you first.

Rudy I always watch your videos from beginning to end, I never skip through 😎

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but in cases such as this and moving forward if you have multiple cards that are all the same take pictures and then if you are going to send them off only send one then if it is claimed fake and destroyed and sent back you can compare with photo and cards still in your possession to see if there was a bait and switch

I'd love to know what became of this.. this whole thing stinks to high hell. I'm actually livid over the idea that these store owners pulled one over on this dude.

"uhhhhh let's see where are my fake cards?"

That Rudy Troll Foil is probably the best thing i have seen on this channel to date!

I watched the whole video. these are really interesting

There was no intend on selling fake cards. There was a consern the cards are fake and the intend of selling them if they are real. Also if you dont own the cards you mustnt be allowed to destroy them.

@Alpha Investments As a bunch of viewers of this video already has pointed out, what if the store in question, kept the real cards, and returned cut fakes to the sender? I'm not trying to steal their point, but I'm curious why that point is never brought up by YOU. Are you (indirectly) saying that you think the person was trying to scam the store, or did the whole "shady store"-concept, never enter your mind? Genuinely curious about that, no hate on my part.

Hey Rudy, love your channel and you might have mentioned this in a past video, but what's the point of hiding indicators of which cards are fake? Wouldn't it be a positive thing for people to identify them and get them out of circulation, or to avoid falling for the scam themselves?

I dunno, but for my favorite type 2 poison deck back in the return to Ravnica sets. I made some sweet fakes (as tokens) to make it very very clear how and why my opponents were screwed. (the tokens were used to show the win condition being placed on the stack, sometimes multiple times) people hated me at fnm for that deck. Never saw anyone else use anything like it