Debate With A "Libertarian Anarchist" 

Sam would’ve been a damn good trial attorney.

This is what happens when people pick their political ideology based on how edgy it is and not on their actual values and positions on key aspects

@@RevieCliche this

@Analyzing Male Slavery sounds like communism to me

@@eduardom.8766 i think his father was

Agreed

The personification of "... he a little confused but he got the spirit" meme, lol~

Agree totally. I bet he’s changed his position by now

@@whitneygirl704 I bet he voted for Trump twice

If I have to here John Galts frickin proclamation one more time I'm gonna lose it!

accurate

30 yrs of age is not a "kid"

TheEvolver311 well technically no... but it is absolutely possible to make it to 30 without having any real life problems like the mentioned cancer, or having sick kids, or having a terrible accident. Personal tragedy is what is required for some people to realize the importance of the system we have and how to make it better. Until then, “I don’t need it so no one does” is a common thought process. He may not be a kid but he is naive.

@@benjaminpark5460 my dad left when I was a kid

+IamCancer624 Capitalism cannot innovate or create quality, by the nature of consumerism it is a race to the bottom of cheap bullshit that breaks. It is part of being trapped in a system that only profits from planned obsolescence and screwing people for greeds sake. Quality in capitalism is in how well you can lie and manipulate to sell as much shit as possible with marketing lingo, not the products.

***** Computers and the internet were developed by the state.

***** In the case of the computer, we're talking about something that required decades of extremely costly R&D with no obvious commercial benefit. It's obvious now, but it wasn't back in the 40s. It's unlikely that a for-profit company would invest billions in R&D on a project that even IBM thought would never make money. Would IBM, or any other company, spend billions of dollars developing the computer when they think they're only going to sell five of them? www.techhive.com/article/155984/worst_tech_predictions.html It's exceedingly unlikely that the private sector alone would have developed the computer, or at least not for a very long time from now. Nice switching of the goal posts by the way. You offer the computer as a triumph of capitalist innovation, I correct you, and you change the argument to "the private sector would have done it eventually!" /Libertardian logic

+Bronson Kaahui "Government externalities." What an utterly stupid comment. Your "no government" option is a utopian fantasy. So compared to your imaginary utopia, yes, government sucks. Unfortunately, we don't have to option of living in Fantasyland.

+Bronson Kaahui "You created it and then falsely attributed it to me" Take responsibility for your ideology. Since you claim to be an "anarcho"capitalist, consequently this makes you one who lives in a fucking fantasy utopia. "War on the other hand, is actually a real thing, a demonstrable, empirical fact" Wars are fought on behalf of the ruling class, the ones you believe should run society.

I'm fascinated by this - it's as if somehow their philosophy compels them all to buy the same shitty phone.

They support 3rd party cell phone providers.

It's the fact they are using a cellphone and doing a speaker phone call, unless your in a proper room set up for it, the speaker is going to suuuuck in quality.

Okay yes, screw these anti-government types am I right? Let's certify and license everything. How about it's time you start applying when you want to have sexual intercourse. Very dangerous, risky behavior. So you need to ask the government if it's okay every time you do it and fill out lots of forms listing names and addresses and body counts and all that. :-) good thinking. :-)

@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 oh look it's a triggered ancap

+Bronson Kaahui call in so we can hear the hilarious remarks :)

LOL WHAT

Sorry can you say that again?

***** The Republican party is actually a better alternative than Libertarians.

***** Libertarians are the shittiest alternative. Mainstream Republicans are better, as are Democrats. Every single conceivable alternative is better.

***** You're a pathological liar, and therefore I don't care about your opinion.

IamCancer624 Anything that isn't fascism.

***** Libertarians are nominally anti war.

Yep

What does government give him?

Roads to drive on, fire fighters and emt professionals, working power Infistucture, universal communication infistructure, air travel, food, drug and products regulation, etc. ,etc. You do not have to like the govenment to understand what it does.

@@sharper68 WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US?

@@CausalityLoop lol.

K Dawg, he's not a libertarian. Guarantee he doesn't even know who Rothbard is.

That's kind of the thing with freedom, you're not supposed to tell others how to live. Silly liberals.

@@metabolic_jam And with no government in place, who is going to respond when it is violated? Pithy statements with no thought of the implications. That is libertarian thought in a nutshell.

@@radicalmiddle9745 I talked to one of these Individual Sovereignty people, and I asked him if he would need a passport to re-enter the US if he were to secede on his own land (I also asked about tariffs, mail, and by what right his definition of property deserved to win out), and the best he could do was whine about how I was distracting about minor points. There have been others, but that conversation was probably the most illustrative.

Kevin Borge Sam could probably have handled rothbard in a debate. Anarcho capitalism makes no sense.

Nope, he probably just has a browsing interest in libertarian thought.

+Deep Ashtray _Libertarianism is nothing more than a __-philosophical-__ mealy mouthed, inconsistent, disingenuous, half assed argument for oligarchy._ Fixed.

+Philippe PBS Is the tune that I whistle in front of you my property? Or can you take it:?

***** It is indeed my property. Why do you get to determine what constitutes intellectual property? It's very simple. If you want to believe in the idea of private property, you have to define what you mean by property. As soon as you define what is property, then you need to identify how you determined that one thing is property, and another isn't. Are you in academia, or are you just a serial college student? It's obvious that you are overly convinced by "on paper" arguments, but that you don't really have much experience with actual property in the real world.

***** Libertarianism is all about who controls the resources. Multinational corporations know that full well.

***** Why would I ask you about your academics? Because it's a clear indication of the bubble of socialism that you live in, and that you deny. It's easy to tell people to act certain ways when you have everything taken care of. Yet again, you flail because you refuse to acknowledge that there is no way you can make a claim to private property without having an outside authority. If you want to talk about slavery that is great. When humans were private property, what would you have said about property? Other than that, I am not sure why I am tasked with your job of defining the morality of owning humans. Don't own humans. It's wrong. That's pretty easy. Once again, why do you get to determine what is property? Why is it that you say the melody I whistle is not mine, but it can be yours? Are you saying that you are sharing the thing that I created without asking me if it's okay to share it? Keep in mind, it's not the scarcity of the melody that is at issue. It's the scarcity of my intellectual abilities and time. I have potential monetary value in my melody, but you don't recognize it.

It's always easy to see the "good" government does. It's much harder to envision the counterfactuals.

True, but it is also too easy to see all the faults of government an overlook the good. I think liberals would agree with you that government does a lot of things really really really wrong, but the way we fix it is how we differ. You would propose less government, liberals would propose fixing our current government.

matereymate Right, and it comes down to what system is better for efficiently allocating resources. Is there a precedent for a centralized system to do that over a decentralized one? I don't know that there is.

The government isn't a centralized system for allocating resources it just sets the rules. Private companies buy and sell with other private companies. Shipping, whether it's air, land or sea, is also done by private companies.

They just ignore whatever doesn't suit their narrative or make up false BS about it. Like the complete falsehood that wait times in the Canadian system are abysmally long or that thing with the kid in Italy.

+Tyler Desrosiers Opps, I broke my arm. Better cut it off. Someone has the flu. We should just put them down. Nothing that's broken ever gets better. mope mope mope

Rose Magdalene You want your other arm to make $15 an hour? Theft. What would really help is if your other arm could make $3 an hour at two full time jobs, no over time, no benefits. That's what would really help you to want to do better for your family.

+Bronson Kaahui But they're not. Government, like all organizations, consists of people. Different people do different things. We can criticize some of the people without criticizing the others. We weed out the bad from the good all the time in our personal lives [and other organizations], why shouldn't we do the same with government?

IamCancer624 Businesses forcing people to take lower wages is robbery as well. Not paying taxes for the infrastructure that goes into getting your laborers to and from work, training them, giving them problem solving skills, etc, are all forms of robbery. There is an inherent imbalance of power putting an individual against a group. Libertarian logic says people bidding for their wages directly with a 'business' is fair... give me a break. It's an individual with few real choices vs. a person or group that has the power to sustain that person's well being. Starve or die. That is the essence of the power structure that exists between employee and employer. Take this or risk something less. Stay here or risk having nothing at all.

***** Throw the baby out with the bath water. There. I can make general sweeping statements, too. You need to keep in mind where the money trail that has 'educated' your current form of 'libertarianism' has come from. I can live with having an actual, principled, libertarian in government. So why are all of the 'libertarian' politicians and candidates in any given country either religious zealots, or worse, just trying to remove taxes for businesses? Why don't they remove taxes on the poor before they get rid of corporate welfare? Why not give the poor a reverse income tax (ala Friedman) instead if giving it to the uber rich? Oh, and also, the state you describe has been supported by businesses, families, and corporations that traditionally have always supported government enforcement of their ideology. They currently support the 'libertarian' ideal, which is least likely to get in the way of their best interests. Try following the money.

also call from a fucking landline assholes!

+ry wyche its so expensive because of all of the gov't bureaucracy in the first place. Our health costs started skyrocketing just a few years after Medicare was passed. The reimbursements are so weak, that the costs get passed down to everyone else

+Illya Van Hoof THANK YOU! Some people just hear one statistic and base their ideology on it without any real understanding of the issue as a whole

***** No, not better results, the US has the best healthcare outcomes. When you control for lifestyle choices, the US actually has the best life expectancy. Plus most countries hid their healthcare costs in their national debt and the US has multiple layers of bureaucratic red tape at the local, state and federal level.

***** No, we have the best healthcare results. The national debts in Europe aren't a problem? Really?

+Eero Haapala why has Somalia done better without its central gov't.

kathy kelly Good govt = Canada, Sweden, Holland, France, Belgium, Finland, Denmark, Norway. Bad govt = Bangladesh, Qatar, Saudi Arabia. No govt = Somalia.

Eero Haapala Those gov'ts you listed as good tend to be more economically and socially free. You literally aren't allowed to drive if you are a woman in some of those bad countries and can be executed for being gay. But you didn't address my point about Somalia, why has it done better without its central gov't.

***** and he just happened to list freer countries as the good, funny the more laissez faire the better

***** I oppose govt-funded mass incarceration, war, torture, censorship and capital punishment (North Korea, Saudi Arabia, 'Merica). I support govt-funded healthcare, education and infrastructure (Canada, Sweden, Holland).

19 seconds in and I'm already howling. Rest in power Michael

+Bronson Kaahui lol, you can't help yourself can you? Got an impotent little contrarian itch eh? Lol

+Bronson Kaahui you're the caller? Haha, lol.

+Soo Line lol two libertarians enter one alligator leaves

IamCancer624 no moron we do not believe in private ownership of the commons,natural monopolies and certain means of production

IamCancer624 natural monopolies and the commons are water national park land the internet electricity food production the basic necessities of life and a functioning civilization. humanity did not create the pyramids the renaissance or go to the moon through competition and the free market. but through collectivism and personal/sociatle betterment and making a better world for the next 7 generations

***** we are a self governing democratically elected representative republic we are the state. so pull your head out of your ass get involved or shut the fuck up. your hands are not clean because your more moral there clean because your not helping

IamCancer624 why do we need to go to space moron it's because one good asteroid and human existence is toast as if we never were it is time to end the senseless wars ,stop burning down the plant and leave the cradle behind for the stars

By running into trivial details instead of addressing the wider arguments?

Libertarianism is only good for online disscussion, not practical.

BizarrePower Historical precedent disagrees. Where has a coercive monopoly ever allocated resources more efficiently?

+Greoric M I'll wait for the Federation to come into existence.

BizarrePower Concession noted.

*****​ society would obviously exist but it would be like a somalian society or maybe turn into a saudi society 

Daniel Ocampo, agreed. Most think it's 100% moral and ethical to have a group of people set up a monopoly on the initiation of violence.

@Inverting the Pyramid with Joe Kopsick fair enough, thanks for the feedback.

I honestly think this dude is just uneducated. He started as “anti war” and worked his way backward to find a political alignment that sounds good in theory and is also anti-war.

*That is why they dont think... /sarcasm* Point is, if a person votes against their own interests just because they dont BOTHER to actually think about the negatives they are voting for. I would argue they can thank themselves tbh. Oh, your kids cant go to school anymore because you voted for a 100% profit motivated privatized education. *BUHUU!* Oh, you dont make as much money because you voted for Union busing politicians that took away your worker rights and you finally figured out that without a backdrop of Unions you didnt have as much leverage in your low skilled job as you thought. *BUHUU!* etc...

ancaps dont use the classical defnition of capitalism, they afford capitalism and free market as the same thing

Or 20/20

Fuck cats no loyalty

+Bronson Kaahui a "valid rebuttal" assumes a valid argument worth rebutting. It's an assumption that never materializes because the underlying illogical presuppositions of the vast majority of libertarians making the argument never passes the reality test. By definition, anarchists are sociopaths, and by definition libertarians are delusional. It's not demonization - it's reality. A state that no Libertarian is philosophically familiar with.

@@WillCarter1976 "By definition, anarchists are sociopaths"...only if the person defining them doesn't know what anarchism is...that would be you, apparently.

+IamCancer624 What? Free healthcare? I wrote nothing about free healthcare. If you want to troll you have to roll out the words better than that.

Hobbes Tiger, easy to do when you find a random personal who isn't intellectual. Let him question some prominent anarchist thinkers and see how that turns out.

Kevin Borge he has. He has taken on libertarian presidential candidates and most prominently Walter Block, a hugely prominent libertarian professor, and whether or not you agree with libertarianism, Walter Block got stuck on what happens when his free market court doesnt agree with your free market court and two people dont agree on a third court to settle the dispute.

Joshua Gill, ohhhh the "libertarian" who started "Libertarians for Trump". Ya, he's a great representation. How about someone who has principals and is actually an historic libertarian (anarchist)? As Block and all those Mises guys are basically "let's return to the constitution" xenophobes in disguise. Lastly, as for debating a presidential candidate...like I said...debate an intellect.

lol you are the stereotype that Sam Seder mocks in the first place. "Ohh, those libertarians arent REAL libertarians, only I and those who i believe in are the real libertarians."

Firstly, don't give a shit what Sam Seder thinks/feels/says/does. Secondly, I'm basing the definition of a libertarian through an historical, philosophical, ethical & principled approach. Would you same the same thing to Chomsky, because he lectures about it - ALL THE TIME. I'm leaning towards either a.) You don't know who the hell Chomsky is or b). You have heard of him and will rationalize that him saying Mises' type "libertarians" aren't REALLY libertarians is fine because he's decorated with academic prestige. Read a book.

I wonder if he's worked out that you cannot automate your way to cheaper land yet.

It was enraging how many times Sam had to repeat himself for this nit wit.

There’s no interstate competition in the USA