Young Libertarian Calls In To Debate Sam 

He's the best libertarian debater I've heard yet.

That's because Sam is being patient and trying to teach him, because there's still hope for him.

This kid is fucking insufferable, I'd rather he be a raving nut at least then his nonsensical worldview would make sense

Somehow I have hope for this kid. Maybe someday he'll call back and let us know he's changed his views.

@@Snake8jake He's a kid.

His parents must be Socialists

I was prepared for a lot of static

Also, someone probably taught him how to use a phone, whereas all libertarian's are 'self-taught'.

Sam returns the energy you bring to the call. I'm sure Dan will call the show back one day as a libertarian socialist to thank Sam or something

Good post. You misspelled vulnerable.

That’s a pretty low bar.

I think he's just a smart kid who is working out his own ideology. Some of the older ones, the clay has already gone through the kiln

not a high bar

Not only is it a low bar, but like Sam was hinting at, the dude is barely a libertarian. He just likes the name. He sounded inquisitive and open-minded - I wouldn't be surprised if he's cracked open a few books by now and became an anarcho-communist or democratic socialist lol

@@powbobs Correct. It's so low, James Cameron couldn't find it in the Marianas Trench.

Give Dan five years or so and he'll have realized the flaws in these ideas and worked past them. You mark my words.

I thought it was a 55 year old woman who has smoked all her life.

Christopher McGowan HEY! HEY! HEY! Stop being rational!

Seriously the kid will not be libertarian much longer if he keeps his commitment to Truth.

Compare almost ANYONE to Walter Block and he looks like an escaped mental patient.

Why don't you want to pay your landlord, Daddy State, what is his?

Orrrr he seems like a bright kid cuz he’s young and it’s endearing but when he’s 30 he’ll sound like every other baby brain libertarian lmao

@@taxslave5906 everyone who disagrees with you isn't a state-worshipping authoritarian

@@taxslave5906 “freedom advocates” LOL libertarians have no idea what a free society means. My transition out of libertarianism was mostly the slow realization that libertarianism is simply a pipeline into corporate fascism. The state is just a corporation, the services/goods they peddle is a monopoly in authority/violence because it’s human nature to monopolize violence/authority. The libertarian paradigm of how the world should work largely ignores human nature, and that’s why it’s a joke. I still love me some Ayn Rand novels though

@@taxslave5906 lmao I love how calling someone a statist is an insult. Libertarians are some of the most delusional people on the planet.

@@taxslave5906 yup, I definitely bet you could find a poll where 60% of Americans agree with eliminating critical government services and departments. Lol

@@taxslave5906 this is beyond satire lmao. Gary johnson said it so it must be true??

@@taxslave5906 you're just wrong man. Private prisons have the incentive of treating inmates as poorly as possible to save money and fit as many into one space as possible to maximize revenue. If you think that's a healthy dynamic you're well out of your depth.

@@taxslave5906 there are many studies that show you're more likely to be assaulted by a guard, by another inmate, in private prisons compared to public ones. Those who went through the private prisons system also show higher rates of reoffending than those who went through public prisons.

He will. Hell be a conservative in a few more years ;)

@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1 Not so sure about that. I'm wondering how many conservatives even know what a worker cooperative is.

@@christianknuchel whats the significance of knowing that? Lol

@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1 So you dont look like an idiot when you realise you understand nothing about everything youre against(as Peterson did in his recent debate with Zizek), youre just against it because it makes you feel good for some reason specific to you.

@@deadmeat1471 Didn't that debate just pan out to Zizek saying communism wasn't ideal and that they literally agreed on almost everything.

It's the Great War Great Hero power fantasy. Kid watched some anime and wants to be the rugged, hot-blooded shounen hero. That's pretty much the baseline for all this 'rugged individualist' tripe. Incidentally, this is why some subcultures like furries or otaku tend to have relatively large groups of libertarians.

_This is the most intelligent Libertarian I have heard on your show_ That says so much, and yet so little. _It was funny, though, that after 19 minutes of a slow boil of hermeneutics and nuanced definitions of the subject matter, out came the argument about the magically unified Community Militia fighting against the big employer in the neighborhood_ It always comes down to that. Private interests duking it out in a might-makes-right showdown. Discussions of their Libertopia always come down to that. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

***** Interesting. I've noticed that a lot of Libertarian commenters have anime avatars. Yet one more reason to hate anime fans.

how did you get furries into this?

whyamimrpink78 Blood is green. The sky is purple. I can say unfounded shit, too.

+whyamimrpink78 even a year later you are wrong

about twice the IQ

The first Walter Block interview was such a shit show lol.

@@iammrmanager HEYHEYHEYHEYHEY!!!!!!!!!!!

you realize that environment regs are enforced at gunpoint right? If you don't comply, see what happens. Someone polluting your yard with deadly smoke is a serious aggressor.

kathy kelly but in his libertarian paradise where and who is this private defense force or militia that any citizen can have? What if his private defense force is bigger and better armed?

+Ronin Dave The more money you have the more you can defend your rights. So the poor would effectively have no rights if they can't afford the militia or private police.

@@kathykelly5930 So, basically, society should be organized in gangs that resolve their disputes by the means of war?

@@christianknuchel hmmm, sounds like the government

Yes, but he's clearly a thoughtful guy and seems to have a good foundation of logic, He'll get there. I'm very impressed with his listening skills. He was clearly listening to and responding to Sam's points, He had mobilitu and wasn't just working his way down a page of notes like many callers do.

Fair enough.

William Sophistos It's like economics is a philosophy. Economic philosophy? This is just greed relativized into absurdity.

I'm sure homeless people would prefer not to be "covered" in this system (as they are frequently harassed by cops).

hihihitaytaytay They would be harassed to some extent either way. But in libertopia they would never receive assistance when someone decides to go A Clockwork Orange on them.

hihihitaytaytay In Libertarian Land, they'd just be shot or street-swept with impunity. You can fix this issue with legislation under the current system, but if the rich-fuck 'berts call in Blackwater you'll just have a bloodbath.

large chunks of the population don't pay in now, 50% of ppl pay no effective income tax.

[citation needed]

Which is why the Libertarian Party is funded by the Koch brothers, it would just make them richer and enable a dictatorial society.

I know that I make an above avg income, and still live paycheck to paycheck, only the wealthy can give to charity without sacrificing their own quality of life. And besides, charity won't cover everything covered by welfare now, and you know it

"So without government there's no such thing as charity? You have a low opinion on people." Except it's not that is it - it's an objective look at human history before large-scale state run social programs, where charity was severely inadequate and people lived in grinding poverty. Or even a look at some third world states today without social programs where charity is wholly inadequate.

I am against the ancap philosophy but people could continue to flourish financially without the state and continue to help the poor en masse with private systems that they createthe truth is that a society without a government is an ancap societynot a libertarian onethe LP, Milton Friedman, and Ayn Rand all stated that they oppose eliminating the government so ancap is not libertarianism

Not to mention, with anarcho-capitalism, it would become nearly impossible to climb the social ladder. Someone’s got to pay for the roads and if it isn’t the government, then it’s going to be a private interest. “Got a job that’s 20 miles away? Excellent! Just pay me (the owner of the road), $200/day, to use the road, as part of our gold plan! We don’t sell the silver plans and below to people travelling more than 15 miles to work everyday. What? Your company doesn’t pay you nearly enough because there’s no regulations on how much your employers pay you? That’s too bad!” And it goes on and on with every facet of life. And forget rising the social ladder with good ideas-there are no neutral parties who will protect your patents. There’s nothing to stop any privately owned patent office from selling your patents to the highest bidder-they gotta make money too you know! What ancaps and libertarians don’t understand is that society is a lot more complex than just “supply and demand” and “taxes” and “the invisible hand!” and “economics”. There are networks and systems and people involved. Business is almost as much about people and understanding human nature as it is about money. You have to understand your markets, which are made up of *people*, network with *people*, satisfy clients-aka *people* etc. in *pursuit of profit*. All that is lost on libertarians. Human nature plays a big role in how society turns out. The economic system involved is just the input that people will respond to, but it guarantees no result. TL;DR Libertarians don’t understand that an entirely free market will not solve all their problems, and can even make them worse, because the people involved in that market are more nuanced and complex than that.

Matthew Brown me too

+Charles Ferguson I will give you that, I completely agree. But I also get annoyed when these libertarians get stuck and laugh to feign disbelief, when really they just had their last statement stuffed back i their face. But for sure, I have seen what you say for sure.

Dave Diamonddog yeah some of the younger libertarians that call in also do that snarky laugh as well. All in all, I'm on Team Seder.

@@-Diamond-Dave- fair enough!..(how has no1 else done that joke in 3 years?!)

@@garygantz1053 Wow, a reply after 3 years, you must always be late to the party like I am. Except i don't usually realize it till after I posted :)

@@-Diamond-Dave- comedy is all about....

Every single Libertarian without exception? Sounds like a strawman. And then you wonder why libertarians call you out for creating strawmen.

hihihitaytaytay Let me correct him. I have never heard a Libertarian speak publicly about another Libertarian and agree that the first person had given an accurate portrayal of Libertarianism. How many Libertarians have I heard speak? Probably 30. That's a strong trend.

Jonathan rubin Feminists tend to sound alike. "Well that BITCH is not a real feminist", "white men cant be feminists" etc. great way to defend a movement or ideology. Not saying that i like or dislike the feminist movement, it has flaws like anything else, but i think there must be a pattern for people idenitifying themselves as some -ist of sort.

It's been a few months, but I wanted to make another argument: libertarianism includes a wide scope and its different proponents have contradictory philosophical and economic foundations. Libertarians advocate for smaller government. How small? That is a very important debate within the ideology. Thus, instead of using the catch-all term, it is probably more useful to ask the person in question if they are a constitutionalist, minarchist, or anarchist, and go from there.

hihihitaytaytay Ok. But you should probably come to grips with the fact that the differences that separate you into these groups are nowhere as large as the similarities that put you imperfectly under the umbrella of "Libertarianism." Even people who agree with one another on virtually everything are going to find 10 differences of opinion to debate about. If those two people have to be separated into different groups, it is misleading because they typically agree on virtually everything. I can't have a debate with 20,000 individual people. That is why it makes sense to find broad similarities and debate people who are largely (if not always perfectly) representative of the general movement. You can't make any sort of political statement about any ideological group if everything is going to sink into the cracks of slight variations from person to person.

He also is able to listen, comprehend and respond like a rational human being unlike most libertarians. So I don't think it has anything to do with him being a kid that he received a serious conversation

No, the progressives should unite with the socialists and crush the right-wing.

Except libertarians don't want to legalize marijuana, legalize gay marriage, protect a woman's right to choose, or even necessarily get money out of politics. Libertarians want to take away the government's power to legalize or criminalize marijuana, take away the government's power to recognize any marriage, take away the government's power to defend or oppress a woman's right to choose, and claim that taking away the power of government to do things is how to limit corruption and oppose laws that outlaw corruption. The main problem with taking away the federal governments power is that power is than granted to the states. Which means rather than one fight to legalize or protect something at the national level, we are faced with 50 smaller fights to do the same thing.

whyamimrpink78 "Let us take the gay marriage issue. If the state recognizes marriage than they can't discriminate via the 14th amendment" how do you know that the supreme court will hand down a ruling in favor of gay marriage?

How do you get money out of politics when Progressives are always looking to politics as a means of creating new taxes? Progressives are really stupid.

whyamimrpink78 " The SC will hand down a ruling in favor of the 14th amendment. " how do you know that they view gay marriage as something that is protected by the 14th amendment?

He wasn't looking for truth. He was claiming he had it. Yet, he was wrong a number of times. Young people should look for truth. It's a very common experience for young men to go through a phase of rugged individual style libertarianism. Some of them just never grow out of it, I guess.

Haha

MrOttopants If he's got good parents and proper schooling, he'll grow out of that shit by 21 if not sooner.

it takes a certain humility to firstly recognize and then admit that you are wrong so I think you should respect him for it rather than trash him for it. It is the essential step for learning. (ik this comment is old but..yeah. latecomer i guess)

Statism exists now, go to North Korea.

Choosing a country that isn't a Social Democracy, gas lighting much?

Yeah I hear that the total laissez-faire and the capitalism in its purest form with zero state involvement made wonders in Somalia.

Just curious, the profile pic suggests you’re Anarcho-Socialist, right?

Never mind the original creator would make zero money and thus their would be zero zero incentive to create anything just copy something else