One thing is clear. Even both of them are targeting different markets, Behringer hurts all the overpriced manufacturers like DSI. I saved the money to get the Pro6 and when I was about to hit the order button I came across the DM12. Instead spending 2.5k Euros on a Pro6 I got a DM12, a Neutron, a Model D, a Strymon Big Sky, a Eventide Timefactor and had some money left to buy my wife some sexy lingerie.
That's a smart shopper right there. Most things in life are overpriced for the sake of being overpriced. I'm grateful that behringer and other companies like them do these things. I just ordered a DM12 today with the money I for some gear I traded in. Can not wait to begin using it.
Thank you for another excellent demonstration. This comparison really makes the point that the more we understand synthesis, the more likely we are to get the sound we need out of almost any synth that we happen to have in front of us (or at least very close), regardless of the price. I’m inspired to dig deeper into the synths that I already own before getting the next new thing. Great job, sir.
@@bennett4senate I really like Starsky's demos because they aren't lessons, per se, but they are so detailed that they get you inspired to do your own explorations. So where you are right now is always a great place to be. The one who I look to for more of a teaching experience is Automatic Gainsay. His tutorials are as deep as the ocean. Nick Batt (sonic lab) is cool, because his demos are very musical and show you how to use synths in a pop context. Plus, he has created some really great tracks that were big hits in their time, like "Tom's Diner" by Suzanne Vega and "Strict Machine" by Goldfrapp. Good luck. Keep learning, keep moving and never look back.
Man I love my DM12. It's what the Juno would've been if it was made today. The Prophets & Oberheims are great too, but man.....the price tags are absurd. I'm not sure if it was your intention, but this video really brought into light the absurdity of Sequential's prices. Your videos kick ass! Thanks for your work.
Been eyeing a sequential trigon 6 for a while now but it's pricetag is ridiculous the 6 voices are also off putting 8 or 12 voices should be the standard for Synths in 2023 Behringer just released it's very powerful 16 voice UB-XA analogue synth and it sounds amazing I can buy 2 or 3 of those for the price of one trigon 6
I own (and LOVE) both of these synths. My $.02 as a composer and a designer of analog hardware and plugins: 1) the Prophet is capable of a much wider range of tones and colors. Deepmind can do all the 'patch types', but whether a pad or a bass or a stab, all of its sounds are a bit same-y in color. 2) the Prophet is bigger and more 'electric' sounding (its harmonics have more complexity and more energy), which makes it sit in a mix effortlessly, just set the filters correctly and it mixes itself. Deepmind usually needs a bit of processing, usually in the form of a small push in the mids and another, bigger one, in the presence frequencies. 3) Deepmind is better and more versatile for bass sounds, it just gets so fat and weighty down low. Prophet, on the other hand, has gorgeous 'chimey' sounds in its wheelhouse. 4) Deepmind has tons of features, but navigating and programming them can be cumbersome and tedious, while Prophet is immediate, fast, and generally rewarding, feels more like an instrument. Overall, the Prophet is more special to my ears and is often the source of a song's 'signature' or most noteworthy sound(s). Deepmind is overflowing with bread and butter sounds that have the blessing and curse of being very familiar to everyone, but what it does it does very very well and it's value is beyond ridiculous.
I think this is a very good and fair reply. I'd like a deep mind, but because I own so many hybrid synths. Roland MKS 70, and wait for it 3 x Korg DW8000'! It makes sense for me to wait and save up for a fully VCO synth. (id get a berhinger ds 80 in a flash if they ever bring it out) Some people say Sequencial Circuits is over priced, but then try and buy a Moog One at £8500 aprox. One thing I can't understand is why the Korg Prologue is not being spoken of more often, this after all has 32 VCO oscillators! That alot for £1300 quid, I mean come on! Plus the additional 16 digital oscillators, that makes it as weighty as a Moog One, 48 in total, double the deepmind 12, and only aprox double the price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(or the same oscillator count, even if 16 of them are digital) which in my opinion makes it even better value oscillator for oscillator than a deep mind 12? But no one is talking about this? Remember a Moog One 16 voice costs £8500 u.k pounds aprox Dear Starsky Carr could you do a Korg Prologue verses the Moog One caparison? Blessings and Happy New Year.
Ashearon Tiberius Alexander Oscillator count doesn’t mean much. Even more, I couldn’t love a 6 OSCs/voices (+analog chorus) Alpha Juno by any means and I adored the 1 voice 2 oscillators SEM Pro even when using just 1 of them VS the Juno stacked voices or not, chorused or not. There was a night vs day difference. Heck, the Waldorf Q sounded much more vital and organic than the Alpha using the same settings.
I agree totally. The P6 just immediately sounds signature. You pay the price for that. The Behringer is like paying Taco Bell money for so much in a menu, but yes it was overwhelming going over all the possibilities. Some people just want to play and compose and not spend days getting the right pad, lead or bass that modulates with multiple LFO's and effects that are modulated too.
Older synth guy here from late 80's, early 90's. If you're starting out and you want a polyphonic analog DCO synth, you can't do much better than the Deep Mind 12 for starters. You're not investing a ton of money. It's truly analog. It comes with built-in effects that can be modulated and saved as part of your patch. It integrates nicely with your modern studio workflow. Can you buy better synths? Yes. But not at this price-point.
I would like to vouch for the Minilogue. It's my first synth and I've had it for around 3-4 years. Fantastic value. I cannot compare it to the Deepmind though as I've never tried, nor even seen one in person.
I have one 4 voice and one 64 voice synths. Yet I’m trying to finish most of the poly voice range with some 8 voice, 12 voice, and 16 voice polys . What pricier or replica/clone models would you recommend? I was interested in the DeepMind since it’s 12 already.
@@SPAZZOID100 deepmind 6 menus are hardly silly. very well conceived as a matter of fact and remarkably soft on one's patience for the complexity they afford
DSI doesn't make any software and it's better this way (with there lack of software experience) so yeah you either buy one of the third party ones or use one of the free max 4 live templates.
What an excellent breakdown. Doesn't try to sell us on either unit, just lays things out. I can see why the Dave Smith is worth more money, and I can see why the Behringer is a stunning value.
I remember putting "Rite of Spring" and "Chariots of Fire" together for a NAMM show right after Greg, Kevin and Bob bailed. I was in the demo room at SCI with Dave tweaking patches for Stravinsky and to get some life out of most analog gear you need to squeak the pitch on the attack. Embouchure or pluck, almost everything goes out of tune for an instant on the front end. I grabbed the mod knob on an "oboe" or something on a Prophet 10 and Dave said "Oscillator B Mod isn't the answer to everything." To which I replied "On these damn things it is." Sequential gear, aside from some of the game derivative technology pieces, has limited, but "musically useful" modulation. You won't go crazy, but you'll get a damn good playable sound. Smitty's gear has always had a certain signature velvety quality that you can't get anywhere else. And that's why people buy them. It's funny you mention ignoring the envelopes because that's the other place, for some reason, that Smitty will screw you by assigning the resolution to the "wrong" end of the knob. Over 90% of the perceived "instrument" value of a sound is in the attack. And yet on the Prophet 600 the attack went from now to duck fart with no nuance, no in-between. So, when you're dealing with a Sequential synth, the quirks are what you can't copy unless you know where to look. If you want modulation go to the products with the Mopho matrix mod architecture. The 6 was merely Dave's paean to the P-5, a limited but beautiful polysynth.
Amazing video! Was going to say that the deepminds heavy resonance is exactly what I prefer, because it’s useful when you want to use the filter as a sine oscillator, which I love doing. The Juno 6 does a great job at this as well.
The huge price difference is - I think - not too difficult to explain: Dave Smith is a really, really, REALLY good business man. He knows he can tap into a segment of the market which is prepared to pony up the premium he's asking for his brand. The DSI machines are essentially luxury goods.. and your comparison just proved this (once again). It's all a question of market segments. Behringer goes for the lower end, DSI goes for the upper end. There are enough books out there explaining the marketing and psychological foundations for this.. Anyway, great comparison video !
Can’t disagree with any of that.... think they’re both good synths. Can’t argue with the price of the DM or the quality of the P6. ... but how does that affect the results you’ll get in the studio or user experience? Thanks for putting it so succinctly.
I also see that DSI appeals more to the pro segment, whereas Behringer appeals to the “bedroom producer”. I have yet to see a DM12 show up in a pro rig, whereas the P6 is all over the place.
@@alanshewitt Hobbyists also cannot get their bookkeeper to book the purchase cost of a synth as a company expense. Professionals can, and that makes a huge difference. If professionals were not able to book the purchase of a DSI synth as a company expense, Dave Smith would probably see his market collapse very quickly.
@BigChap J iOS also had better kernel support for audio early on, so they cornered the market on music apps. Would rather have that on Android, so It's why I'm forced to pay a premium for a tablet!
Love these vids! Prophet is definently a more polished machine, but I love my deepmind and its endless possibilities! It helds its own! Makes analog synthesis possible for those of us who dont have lots of doll hairs
Being likewise doll-hair-impaired, I'll be sticking with my DM12 too. I LOVE some of the sounds Starsky was pulling from that P6, but I just can't go without food long enough to bring one of those beauties home.
@ghost mall deepmind here in Australia is 1k, prophet is 5.3k. Not even close. 5.3k can get you pretty much a decent studio set up, or just one synth. If the deepmind is comparable, and the only difference being "personal preference" and small nuances that still exist with other top end synth options then deepmind already won
I bought a Prophet 6 cuz of the ease of use, the look and the valuable side of it, DSI won't go down in price easily or could even go up and in the meantime you are working on a state of the art piece of instrument, it's an experience. It's like getting a Porsche, it's a car, will get you from A to B but depending on the model, it won't lose much value and in the meantime the experience of driving is a bliss. Same thing as buying a Rolex... It's a bloody watch... why so expensive... Really enjoyed the comparison. Great vid.
The DeepMind is an amazing synth, not even considering the crazy price point. But the effects, and maybe even more the effect parameters being part of the mod matrix, plus various feedback options, kicks it into territory few (if any) analog synths can compete in. With 12 voices...
10:20 The only possible reason why the VCO on the p6 waves is because the tuning can't be spot-on on it. There is always some minor drift even when you set the drift to zero. 17:20 the stepping on the P6 filter is probably because of the MIDI (127 steps) resolution of the knobs which apparently is used internally in the P6 (I'm not sure). I have no idea why they are still using this. A VCO can definitely sweep smoothly even when the resonance is high. The definite verification of that is when sweeping using an LFO, it should be able to sweep without stepping in that case. I Think the only reason why the DM12 is much cheaper is because behringer has the capacity to mass produce it which allows them to sell more for less per unit. Dave smith probably can't do that massively so the only way is to target premium customers for the higher price and may be give them a bit more. But I don't think its any thing to do with quality in this case, they are both great quality synths as far as I can see. Great comparison.
i was watching a video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pUBRCY_K64g.html explaining the stepping and if you step the filter when using NRPN it is actually musically scaled
@@SPAZZOID100 If it was the harmonics, then the stepping would get smoother as your go higher in the frequency range, say above 2Khz because the harmonics there are more condensed together with respect to cut-off exponential sweeping. The stepping would also get largely spaced out when you go bass and sub-bass with the cut off because the harmonics are much fewer there. I don't think this is whats happening with the P6 from what I've heard. I could be wrong though.
Do I want an OB-8? Sure. What I have though is an open box DM12 that I picked up for a song(pun intended). For home studio recording, it is a great sounding and versatile synth. As to overpriced vs. poor quality, I think neither. I have a $3k guitar and a $300 guitar. Both sound great in the hands of a great player. The difference is in the components and build quality. The more expensive instrument is often just a bit more luxurious. Thanks for the very in-depth and well produced video.
true.. it´s the omni-present Pareto principle; you get 80% of quality for 20% of the price, or vice versa: you have to invest 80% more for a 20% increase of quality.
i'll sell u my perfect ob8 for lowest price on ebay or reverb all day lol. gonna sell it to get a few clones of synths i used to own and miss...or always wanted and were unattainable,,..,from behringer :)
Former strategy consultant here. You must not forget the economics of a large corporation like Behringer being very different to DSI. They have cash cows hauling in huge amounts of money that they can then throw at the development of the DM12. They also already have massive manufacturing capacity at hand, and throwing in some effect is going to cost them next to nothing as the IP is already inhouse. Lastly, I would not be surprised if Behringer subsidized the DM12 to help Behringer with entering an entirely new market.
The surreal McCoy This! It’s ridiculous to compare DSI and Behringer. One is a small “boutique “ company with a dozen employees and a manufacturing process mostly based in high wage USA, the other is a big multinational corporation with its own production facilities in China and its own distribution network in most countries. That alone pretty much accounts for a big price difference. If behringer produce a synth that doesn’t sell well, it doesn’t hurt them. If DSI/sequential spent years and hundreds of thousand of dollars on developing a synth that flops, the whole company is at risk (this is what happened to DSI in the eighties). You gotta factor that in in the end price of your products. All those stupid people accusing Sequential and similar smaller companies of “overpricing” have no idea what they’re talking about.
@@Am6-9 Yes. Aaaannd: for most of the consumers, these economics do not count. And honestly: While, as an ex-strategist I love what Behringer is doing (from a pure corp strategy perspective), I never seriously considered their products. Until I saw that the Crave is but 150€ where I live. So I went to a local store. They did not have the Crave but the Model D and the SH-101 clone. Quite frankly, I loved the sound, but I could not get over the built quality. Hardware costs a ton of money and a DSI product feels solid, and does not wobble. So it might be that a Behringer product with the same built quality as a DSI product would still be expensive. However, if I put myself in the shoes of my own broke 17-year old self (am 51 now) I would buy everything Behringer throws at me.
@@Am6-9 yo no digo este no vea que precios mas inflados ,simplemente compro lo que me gusta y mi dinero puede hacer , y si behringer esta en el punto de mira voy a por el ,en mi vida compraria un prophet ,tengo mas de siete behringer diferentes ,pero tambien tengo varios estantes llenos de eurorak con modulares y semimodulares ,y sintes hardware ,por ejemplo el moog muse es una buena compra ,el moog one no lo es ,ademas tenia 16 voces de plugin vst ,el muse tiene 8 voces gruesas ,es una buena compra que pienso hacer ,un prophet??? no ,y me da igual si es una multinacional o es un vende cabras ,elllos no piensan en mi ,todos quieren ganar dinero ,y yo tener cosas por el menos dinero ,es simple ,saludoss
Awesome Vid! I just got a Deepmind for my church & have never owned or used a synth in my life 😂. With that said this is opening a new world to me after playing keys for 15 years so thanks for showing me even more possibilities!
DeepMind 12: A synth so nice I bought it twice! Frankly there's nothing so impressive about DSI/Sequential that would compel me to buy one, regardless of the cost. The fact that DeepMind has so many people battling over it and comparing it to boutique and vintage synths speaks to just how well Behringer pulled it off.
But most people have criticized the Moog One for sounding kind of mediocre. It seems to be a flop, not even close to their classics, and for that price it's just insane if the raw sound isn't absolutely amazing. I hope you haven't spent all that money yet.
the send mode with the slight delay isn't an issue in practice. As you wouldn't set up a send on a mixer and return it at full volume without any FX involved. So if it was a send to say reverb the reverb would be 100% wet and you'd set the send level to adjust the reverb amount ... good to highlight the delay though and potential confusion or sound for people. Enjoying the comparisons. :)
Thanks for the info. It’s a bit confusing as the mix needs to be set to 100% on the FX main page - the mix control in the individual effects then no longer doubles as the mix blend - and controls the Fx return level. It had me stumped and as you can see I thought there was no way around the flanging. It’s a bit counter intuitive - and highlights that with such flexibility inevitably comes some confusion !!! I assumed it would act much like a mixing desk - send the level you want through the mixer aux into an fx set at 100% wet. I really wish I’d got to the bottom of this before recording my ignorance for prosperity:)
I love my DM12. I was sad when it started to freeze up randomly. And I was really thinking about buying a new one, as it was over a year (and I thought out of waranty) and I couldn’t find the receipt. When I contacted the service center, they were like: “it has a 3 year warranty and this fix is pricy as we need to swap the main board. So contact your store and see if they have a copy of the receipt. If not call behringer and they can work something out with all of us. But the store (who’s gone bankrupt but had a restart) produced my receipt. And it was fixed and works like a charm again. I perhaps dig it even more than my JP8000
This is an extremely well done comparison, thanks for uploading. I must say though, the only thing I'd really miss from the p6 is the resonant hp filter. The sound was so similar, and I even prefer the DM in some ways. That being said if I had money to burn I'd buy the p6, simply because I'd know it would last. Behringer has such a poor history of quality control that I'm honestly worried about buying their stuff, but it does seem that their new analog synths are built well enough.
If I wanted sound design I'd get the DM12 for the mod matrix and effects. If I was in a mid-life crisis, had some spare cash and wanted to pretend I was Richard Barbieri I'd get the P6. In the end I got both. The DM sounds great. But the P6 sounds to my ears like honey-covered gold extruding from the speakers.
And there you have it. Everyone is always talking about features, features and more features, and how many of each there are for your bug, but in the end there is only one thing that defines the quality of a synth. The sound. And the Prophet simply sounds soooooo much better. I would not waste my money on a DM. I would keep saving up until I could afford the Prophet. Nothing to do with brand, or anything, just the sound, but tastes obviously differ. And looking at a oscilloscope makes absolutely no sense. And I am afraid when Starsky says "there is no difference", I can hear a world of difference! Thank goodness Mark I am not the only one!
Had the prophet 6 for a bit, really a lovely machine to work with and the patches are amazing you can literally write a song entirely by using those. But unless you are a fanatic about vintage synthesizers or playing them for the fun of it you really are better off getting something more flexible like the deepmind 12 (matrix) once the sounds are in a song, mixed, all those imperfections ( if there are any) will become inaudible. One thing though the keyboard on the prophet 6 is sublime. Im getting a deepmind 12 soon second-hand :)
@ghost mall Totally agree. I wrote that 2 years ago and gained much more experience in regards to analogue synths. Yes the P6 experience is impeccable and can't be substituted. I ended up getting a Korg Prologue 8 which I could afford and it sounds n feels unbelievable. If I make money with music I'll defs get a P6 too
so many comments saying a lot of synths these days are absurdly expensive. Granted there is a huge difference in price, but honestly, it’s absurd what Behringer is able to produce on a budget using modern manufacturing methods and cheap labour. We’re so lucky to have the options available that we do but we shouldn’t base our idea of what something costs to do based on what Behringer can sell them for. The entire basis of their company is about getting the cost as low as possible and trying to pick the best compromises. Other companies either can’t or don’t want to make those compromises.
Interesting comparison. The Deepmind offers a lot for its money, but pure on sound I like the Prophet a lot more. It sounds more like a classic analog synthesizer, which is what I like.
Couple things I've learned from owning a Deepmind 12D for nearly a year now -- if left unchecked it can sound a bit shrill or harsh, especially in the context of a mix with other analog synths. Needs a lot of help to get it to play well with other instruments (more/less depending on the patch, obviously). I find myself cleaning up lots of muddy bottom end and resonant low-mids around the 400-1200hz area. I also find the noise floor is quite high on the DM12. Using the built in FX tends boost the floor a good 15-20dB more on top of that. It also adds a few electronic resonances around 5K and 10K. This is probably due to cheaper components to keep the price down. Not a deal breaker really, it just means it needs more help and attention to balance it out. My solution has been to avoid using any of the built in FX at all due to how obtrusive the noise floor becomes and just use in-the-box plugins in their place. I paid $800 CAD for it brand new, so if it means I have to spend a few extra minutes taming things, I'm alright with that. The Prophet 6 does sound warmer, more balanced, and more pleasing to the ear by default, but it's tough to say if that's worth 4x the price here in Canada.
Honestly what you just mentioned about the noise floor and such (in my personal opinion) should never, EVER be mentioned seeing as price per performance is out of this world compared to other synths,instruments. HOW it sounds and what it can do is the key along with price.The only nitpick I have with it is the alignment of the keys... GOD my Komplete Kontrol M32 Midi Keyboard doesn't look as bad.
@@xaviermccloud4586 those are some glaring problems though if you actually use synths to make music. You spend more in order to have to do less in the studio. Thats why fender jazz basses are so prominent in studios and recordings, very little work to get sitting in the mix.
Good video. One point on price, DeepMind is designed and priced for far higher volume sales than the P6 - probably 2 orders of magnitude higher sales. Then it's a question of the compromises needed to meet the DM price point. On the other hand if the P6 design was to be compromised it won't meet the expectations of its customers (pros).
I think you would just go for what you feel like, to me an instrument has some feel to it, you live with it. Comparing features takes away the charm of the instrument. When I'm in a music store, I walk around the synthesizers like a kid in a candystore, and when I play around with a synth that gives me that warm inner smile. I feel like adding it to the family... (if the piggie bank allows me to)
@@deauvillevrienden Why the hesitation on the Neutron? I own one. It's a BEAST. Loads of little design ideas embedded in there. For example, why in the hell was the overdrive sound path? Because it's actually a low-pass/high-pass gate in disguise. Using the patchbay and the onboard summer(there are two of those) and the OD, you can literally have bandpass, low pass and high pass all in on it together. It's an amazing machine. Can't recommend it enough. And that bass... omg that bass.
@sbmphr You forget that they will clone the Roland Jupiter 8, Oberheim DMX drummachine, Linndrumm, Prophet 5, Oberheim OBXa, ARP 2600, E-MU Emulator II, Sequential Circuits Pro One and a few others. They had leaked it on their website. I really hope they'll do a Roland Juno 60 and an Elka Synthex clone. They've done a great job with the Model D (minimoog clone), I've seen the comparison which are identical. I really can't understand the people who hate Behringer, but I can't wait them to release these clones. Shut up and take my money!
The Model D is so bloody powerful. Cuts thru and dominates. Use sparingly otherwise it will steal all your headroom and bandwidth! I splashed out on a Pro 2 and it amazes every time I switch it on, but I still covet a Prophet6 and an OB6.,.but the price is just too steep. Behringer are gonna kill the competition. It’s inevitable, sad as that may be. That Pro One is going to smash it outta the park.
My biggest gripe about my DSi synths is while paying the premium I expect to have premium components, yet continually dsi refuses to use higher resolution on its pots resulting in the analog filters sounding like digital stepping (this isn’t an issue for many people who are playing these synths but for sound designers it’s a rather large gripe.) the deepmind doesn’t suffer from this issue and line from dsi that it is intended is rubbish (and if it was they could include an option to turn that stepping off). Biggest gripe about the deepmind would probably have to be that I wish the fader shafts were a bit either thicker or had something around em to make them feel more solid. Both are lovely synths though.
I think the stepping you’re referring to is a function purposefully built in by DSI to tune the filters in semitone increments. It’s incredibly annoying when playing the filter manually - I’d rather tune by ear, but then a bigger knob might be needed. Another gripe I have is when automating the filters there’s a step at the middle value where if changes not value - to give higher than 128 resolution it uses 2 bits to give 256. Not great, as it makes an audible click, so you can’t automate a long slope. Didn’t stop me buying the P08, P6 or OB6 though!!
Starsky Carr bigger knob wouldn’t really be needed imho as I have other synths that don’t suffer from that issue. It would require pots with a proper resolution and smoothing. But yeah it’s a choice by dsi.... one that irks me greatly. I just don’t use my dsi synths for those tasks.
I was stunned to see filter stepping on a synth of that price. Sounds like a VST from the mid 90's! I thought we were well past those days . Access introduced filter interpolation on their Virus in around 1999 IIRC. There's should be an option to turn on smoothing.
I'm really glad to see Sequential Circuits back though. Dave Smith is a genius. I still have my old Prophet 2000 and VS. Great machines. But I also have a DM12, a Novation Mini Nova (another way cool synth) and a classic Ensoniq SQ1 Plus. My controllers I have are a Keystation Pro 88 for my PC Daw and a keystation 88 ES for my iPad Pro DAW. Cubase 11 on PC and Cubasis 3 on iPad Pro
As someone who’s a Wavestation, Ensoniq TS-10/12 guy, the Prophet VS is the holy grail of synths I just might be able to get my hands on someday. (other than PPG’s of course, which are Matrix 12, CS80, DX1, wishful thinking territory 😂) Very jealous, all that to say.
Thanks for sharing this interesting comparison. (although unfortunately RU-vid's audio compression messes the sound a lot) I've always considered my DM12 a 6 voice synth, because most of the time I was using it in Unison-2 mode, where you end up with a 2 oscillators per voice (plus two subs) to get a beefier sounding machine. Something the Juno 106 was not capable of. I've programmed patches in that mode on the DM12 that could easily rival the P6 in terms of richness and complexity. I've only set the DM12 aside because I needed a synth with more than 6 voices (I've already got an OB6 for that). So that's why I got a Prophet REV2 (16 voices) to replace my DM12. But I'm starting to think that the DM12 actually sound better than the REV2. Also, all the parameters on the DM12 have 256 possible values, whereas on the P6 many of them only have 127, which can result in audible stair stepping when tweaked live (pretty surprising/annoying on a modern $3K polysynth).
Ciao Starsky I got DeepMind 12D, it's really fun and intersting synth, I bought it becouse Roland vintage sound it was missing from my setup. Infact DeepMind is a synth with original structure, that allow to create nice presets, and Juno, I think also Jupiter and JX Roland sound, thanks to Tune Mode - IR 3109 VCF.
I think you get a lot of synth... good synth with the Deep Mind 12. It's a really good, modern, DCO (analog) synth. Is it good at everything? No. Does it have a killer stack of oscillators. No. But the interface, the huge amount of effects, and the connectivity really make it shine. Behringer put out a good synth. You can hate 'em for it. But even Uli described that this was a a passion project from the folks in England and they put it together in their own own time and after hours (with budgetary support from Uli). Even Uli was surprised with how good it was. It was a really good first synth for a company that never officially produced a synth before.
Thanks for the great video, I don’t have a P6 but do have a Pro2, I also have a Deepmind 12. I almost sent the DM12 back only because I didn’t see the beauty and depth of it with in the front panel and presets. I’m so glad I kept the DM12 as it Is a really good synth. Yes you have menu diving and an old school screen but the depth and breadth of the sound is superb. I’m genuinely blown away by the DM12 and it is my go-too synth compared to the Pro2 which is also a very good synth. I find the DM12 more musical and easier to find the sweet spots.
I prefer the Prophet's layout and filter versus the DM12, but maaaan that stepping is painful. That and the high price are enough to keep me from buying the Prophet. Whenever I do decide to purchase an analog poly, I'm definitely going the Behringer route.
Great demo, but i do think that the price difference is crazy for what difference you get between the DSI & DM 12.. I recently bought the desk top version for around £500.00. absolute bargain brand new.. Behringers problem is there are too many brand snobs, so the dm 12 to a lot of musicians, no matter how good it is, it will always be a poor sounding synth. Having said that you did keep a good balanced review. thanks
@@flat5sharp11 With one's head far enough up a brand's arse any perceptible difference will be interpreted as inferiority from the cheaper models IMHO. If it's cleaner it's "brittle" and "not as warm", if it's grittier then it's "muddy" and "distorted". Never mind the fact that these are all adjustable parameters with any synth and effects chain really.
An oldie but still good. Looking back on this with some distance now I think I would take the Deepmind. I had the P6 and just couldn't get along with those linear envelopes. Sounds weird and I found it difficult to dial in exactly what I wanted. Especially going from a decay to very low sustain on the amp env. There always seemed to be a unnatural sort of volume drop rather than a smooth decay into low sustain. I don't know why Dave didn't make these envelopes adjustable or logarithmic or exponential etc. I think it would have made a world of difference. And he does it with every single one of his synths. Both synths sound nice. If you're after the Roland analogue sound I think the Deepmind does a great job. As a modern replaced and especially compared to plugins. The Prophet does its own sound and that's great too. I have the P5 rev4 now and again the envelopes....nice sound though. Great video. After all these years...
the best thing about starsky carrs detailed tests is how some can't even stand the basic facts :D. and i bet these are the ones who suddenly disappear when theh hear the words "lets blindfold test, folks"
The Prophet has the kudos of being a Prophet, but honestly the extra flexibility you get with the DM makes me lean towards that, even without the huge price difference! Great comparison.
Behringer products are good for the price (I have a few including the slightly controversial Model D), but there is no denying the DSI build quality/durability is a huge factor on the price.. + they are a 'boutique' manufacturer without the economy of scale . The Deepmind synths have a fan inside, and LCD screens can be a bonus, but also another part to fail and a complexity that takes away from the immediacy of 'knob per function' panel. The fan is a big issue for me.
Thanks for the comment. FYI I contacted Behringer about the fan, and it's a legacy from the prototype they decided to leave in. There's no harm in turning it off - I turned it down so it was inaudible. It's maybe useful in a live setting where overheating could cause the voices to drift, but in a comfortable studio there's no need for them. Once you've set it low or off, it remembers the setting. It comes on for a coupe of seconds on power up, then turns itself down again.
@wavesequencer - 'slightly controversial Model D'...in what way? because of its appearance as a clone? I'm considering getting one -are you happy with it? Problems / build quality ?
@@marklondon2008 Build quality seems just fine, and the sound is very authentic. There seems to be some controversy online (comments in forums etc) in terms of Behringer doing clones and 'stealing' old designs. I was put off buying the Roland SE-02 because of the tiny/wobbly knobs.. the D on the other hand is small, but not too small to use easily, and the knobs are solid.
@@wavesequencer Thanks for the reply. I can understand some of the controversy about Behringer 'copying' designs, but on the other hand it's allowing people to have access to quality analogue synths without breaking the bank. We really are living in a period of renaissance and creativity for all. It's possible to get 2 analogue synths for under a grand!
The deepmind is incredible very deep the app is an amazing advantage the effects are all TC electronics which are awesome. The modulation is huge for sure. It just sounds great like the Junos did . It's all about playability. There's the classic Juno chorus in there too which is legendary. If you like Junos it's a winner plus a ton more
I programmed some decent basses for step sequencers on my DM12D using bass boost and 2 Voices at once on some, not that I bought a Deepmind for that but was surprised what u could do if u ignore preset basses and craft your own to sound thick and articulate. TBH bass presets mostly suck on many Synths so programming a few yourself is a must, the trick is to run a sequence from the beatstep pro or somesuch to help fine tune the patch in situ before you`re done
Ummm..... Elephant in the room..... What country was each one manufactured in?? DSI (now Sequential again) is made in the US, whereas the Behringer is made in China. I'm not saying that's good or bad, and I don't believe anyone is trying to rip anyone off. That's just the way the world is now. I was able to afford a Prophet-6. I like it very much, and I feel good about my purchase.
Prophet is not a Brand. Dave Smith Instruments is the brand that makes Prophets. Dave Smith is also the guy behind the original Prophet 5 from the 70-80's. He owns the Dave Smith Instruments company and he designed the Prophet 6 !!! Berhinger is a very small company.
@@willdorak985 Behringer is doing what other companies don't do; listen to their customers. We wanted Roland to re-release the Jupiter 8, what did they do? They made The shitty Jupiter 80 which is garbage, later they came up with their boutique crap and those lame addons for the System 8. Behringer is going to clone the Jupiter 8, and the Prophet 5. This info was leaked on their website, and I'm willing to bet that the Jupiter 8 clone will be way cheaper compared to that 15-18k people are trying to selling the vintage synth for.
The Prophet 6 is like a remake of a classic car. You develop a relationship with it in a way that may seem silly or impractical, but it's a very inspiring instrument to play. Kind of depends what gets your heart beating I think. The build quality is a bit better on the prophet but sonically they sound pretty similar. That said I'll probably never sell mine.
A week ago I traded my DeepMind 12 for a mint condition Prophet 08 PE . I'm 100% satisfied with the trade. I totally respect anyone's opinion for feeling otherwise. Don't feel like you need to change my mind :) The DeepMind 12 was my first hardware synth and I had it for more than 6 months before the trade. I found a lot of the faders were not for the settings I wanted. So I found myself getting frustrated trying to figure out the front panel menus to get something desirable. I realised that using my software synths were much more userfriendly and that I could easily use my Serum or Omnisphere plugin to accomplish mostly the same thing at that point. I found the DeepMind 12 presets weren't organised very well and a lot of them sounded weak IMO. I found myself scrolling endlessly through presets to try and find a base sound that satisfied me, that I could atleast build off of. But I found my self getting more frustrated than anything and not using the synth. Overall I had an uninspiring experience. Also, the keys on the DeepMind 12 were very cheap and one key would sometimes get stuck. I can't speak to the Prophet 08' on this because I got the desktop version plugging into my Kawai MP11 Grand, maybe the top knotch keys and range lended themselves to a better experience on the Prophet, but I know that it isn't the only factor at play. The moment I plugged in the Prophet 08' PE, despite being an older model, I was met with sounds that inspired me right away. I found they had a presence that smacked my ears that I just didn't find with the DeepMind. I turned a knob and all of a sudden I had another great sound that inspired me further. The presets were all fantastic and they were organised by similarity of sound. Finding what I needed was super easy and painless. I found overall, the prophet had beautiful simplicity that I couldn't find with the "Deep"Mind. Perhaps on paper, the DeepMind 12 would surpass my prophet 08' in most ways. But the prophet 08' provided me with that instantly satisfying sound and hands on approach that I could not find with the DeepMind 12. For me, I found that if I want complexity, there are many software synths that can get "that sound". But what I was looking for in an analog synth was the simplicity and immediate gratification that I craved from a Analog Synth. Between the Prophet 08' PE and DeepMind 12, I found that the Prophet was the only one that met my original need from an analog synth.
This post is old, but i can relate to this. If you want to make a specific sound on the Deepmind, you end up scrolling threw the mod matrix and fx matrix. At the end of the Day it felt more uninspiring then just using a Softsynth. A good analog synth should have this „Wow“ Effect without tons of fx added. Also missed the knobs for cutoff and resonance, it just feels different with sliders, but thats preference. The Deepmind was not the Synth for me..
Hey Starsky, what kind of hardware are you using for the waveforms displayed on screen? Have you considered that the AC-coupled inputs on most audio interfaces will particularly affect the wave-shape of low frequencies? The sub-oscillator waveform you displayed is certainly quite out of the ordinary for what I'd expect for a square wave, even accounting for some amount of phase due to the input filter; perhaps something else is going on as well. Cheers! - Jonathan
I think the prophet 6 has a richer, higher quality sound especially when looking at the leads, bass lines, or played as a monophonic synth. That being said, I've owned the DM 12 for nearly 2 years and still love it. It does pads, effects, and certain poly sounds incredibly well and the mod matrix and control sequencer is a never ending source of inspiration. I go to my sub37 when I need a simpler/richer tone for bass lines and leads. If I could only have 1 synth, the prophet6 would probably be the way to go.
The Prophet 6 and OB-6 are the best analog polysynths on the market, and there is no question about it. Even better than the Moog One in terms of sound and character in my opinion. Trashing things because you can't afford them is really weak. I've never seen this with any other instrument, only synth whiners. Guitar players don't trash expensive guitars, etc.
I played both side by side at the shop but don't have the money/space for one yet. The Deepmind has tons of options and I found myself getting into a creative flow with it very quickly. It sounded excellent. However, just after that I started playing the Prophet 6. The sound had a depth and freshness to it that is hard to describe or quantify. When I applied an arpeggiator to one of the sounds and started grooving with it, I felt a real connection to this instrument and I knew that if I ever had a lot of money, I would want to buy one. What others have said is true: features=/=sound. Whatever people want to say about the Prophet, and yes it is definitely expensive, it sounds absolutely amazing. If nothing else, try one at the shop with a nice pair of earphones and I hope you'll have a memorable experience.
It's down to economy of scale, imo. I've owned Dave Smith stuff and I have the current Behri synths and there's not much of a difference that I can see quality-wise. The DSI synths (or Moog stuff, although I'd argue most of my Moog stuff is built like a tank) are almost artisan synths; maybe not as exclusive as the really tiny guys plugging away with experimental stuff, but it's not really mass produced either. Now, comparing a Behri product to a vintage synth, there's no comparison. Unless something goes incredibly wrong in the manufacturing process, and then it would likely only affect a single batch, Behri's Pro-1 clone is going to be miles more reliable than the originals were. New synths are basically like new cars, even the most shittily made cheap car/synth is still miles ahead of what we were dealing with in the 70's or 80's reliability-wise. I don't think a major manufacturer could get away with releasing something as defective as even the Fizmo, and that was basically 20 years ago.
Great video! Did you know that you actually can sort of adjust the gate on the P6 sequencer in some situations? If you hit the HOLD button during a sequence then the gate will stay open, which works like a 100% gate time in unison mode :) It's great for jamming
The natural follow-on for the DM-12 at this point would be a Mk 2 version of the synth with split and layer modes, and maybe revised effects. These changes could likely be done with firmware revisions.
I'd love to have a dm12 mk2 with a better, fatter sounding raw oscillators, a better featured 2nd osc.. mod matrix and fx are just fine to me. A better keybed maybe! That would be the perfect synth to me.
Having owned both (still own the Prophet), get the Prophet keyboard and the DM12 desktop. Far superior keybed on the Prophet. DM12 is good though. I only sold it as I have similar sounds elsewhere.
One thing for sure is build quality. P6 keyboard feels amazing. Deepmind keyboard is trash. If I were in the market for a Deepmind 12, I’d get the module.
This is a really unique and interesting demo. I have the Deepmind 6, and the only DSI synth I have is the Mono Evolver. One of the first questions that most folks seem to have re. the Behringer stuff is the build quality. I have the Behringer Model D, the DM6, and the Neutron, and the build quality is not only good, but exceptional; they're hefty, and the knobs/sliders give just the right amount of resistance. They are a ton of fun to play. There is absolutely nothing 2nd rate about the build on the Deepmind. The one DSI instrument I have is no different - it is built really, really well. It is small, and I carry it around with me in my rucksack when I'm biking around. A few months ago I crashed while riding and my Evolver took the brunt of the fall, resulting a couple of bent knobs. I couldn't fix it, and it would have cost a couple hundred to fix here in Seattle. On a whim I emailed DSI via their website, and I got a reply within hours from a fellow offering to send me replacement parts free if I could do my own soldering, or, fix it for a flat fee of 25.00. 25.00!!! I sent it off to them and they turned it around in days, good as new. So, in terms of price between the Behringer and DSI stuff, that might be something to consider. DSI is in San Francisco, building these things with great care, by hand, and supporting their work, apparently, in perpetuity: I bought my Evolver 2nd hand on CL and they never asked anything about the history of my ownership - they just send, "send it on over!", no questions asked. That's artisan level stuff, and that's always going to cost more, whether you're buying synths, cars, watches, boots, whatever. That level of service is almost unheard of these days. One other thing: the Dave Smith/Sequential brand carries a lot more currency than Behringer - at least for now. I love what Behringer is doing, and I'm buying everything they're releasing, but maybe the price difference between these synths has less to do with measurements and 'scope readings than long term, and perceived, value.
Nice comparison. There are indeed some differences but I don't think they are worth 3 times money. The design of Prophet is much better, it is more stylish than the DeepMind. However, the DeepMind shines here, Behringer did a great work. And nowadays, I see them a really competitive company with regards to price/value. My notable synths like Moog are sharing studio space with 4 Behringer units and I am really pleased with the quality. It is surprising, if someone told me that in 2008 that I will be so happy of Behringer devices i would ask him if he forgot to take his psychotropic pills :)
Nice comparison, yes the prophet does sound a bit cleaner,but at 3 x the price? Not so sure. The dp12 is a great piece of kit though?well done behringer.
Great vid. The answer is, if Berhringer cloned a Prophet 6, it would probably cost not much more than $1000. But in the case of such clones, 'clone' does not mean exactly the same. You never know what you're getting with Behringer. But the Behringer poly D seems to be interesting at least, which you cover so great !. Also, the DM12 is just not quite a hit in general, so it's value sagged. The Prophet 6 does not disappoint.
5 лет назад
Nice! maybe you can use dm12 unison to recreate some of the prophet's patches!
I love my DM12. I'm going to have to stick with that as a good hardware synth controller combo and all my Arturia VSTs. for vintage analog sounds. I'd buy all that stuff if I could.
I sold my Juno106 and used that money to buy a Deepmind12. I think it sounds fantastic. Thanks for this video! Edit: I'll also mention that I think the Prophet sounded better in some areas. If I had stacks of money, I'd love one.
