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Demolition Ships in AoE2

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How good are those exploding ships, anyway?
1:27 General stuff: cost comparison, upgrade requirements.
2:37 Demolition line in HD expansions
3:08 Speed
3:20 Attack values/damage vs ships and buildings
4:15 Using demo ships against land units
4:49 Range of explosion
6:10 Staggered formation to avoid damage
7:12 Delete demo ships to detonate?
7:57 Demo ships and Lanchester's laws.
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Game: Age of Empires 2 HD with Forgotten Empires and African Kingdom expansions

Опубликовано:

27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 627

@Llamasomenumbers 8 лет назад

I think the reason Demolition ships don't do friendly fire damage is because using them in formation would cause the first ship to blow up all the ones behind/around it, making them practically useless.

@nemou4985 5 лет назад

Well they could have been scripted to just not damage other demo ships...

@stashatstake 5 лет назад

@@nemou4985 selective friendly fire? Makes too little sense for age of empires.

@nemou4985 5 лет назад

@@stashatstake It is used in many games including Red Alert 2

@stashatstake 5 лет назад

@@nemou4985 yes, but age of empire is a game known for its originality.

@Fif0l 4 года назад

@@stashatstake doesn't mean every single mechanic is original. Hell, not including selective friendly fire actually makes it less original. Not that it matters, because with the amount of variety this game offers, borrowing one small mechanics element from another game won't instantly make it a ripoff.

@Porglit 8 лет назад

Another major reason to build demo ships when you're behind is because they create a lot faster than either gallies or fireships, so you can muster a fleet much quicker in desperate times if you have the gold on hand.

@Masterbean 8 лет назад

To bring a really bad comparison, the demo ship is like the defensive mangonel. If it hits, it trades extremely well against larger forces.

@Volcano4981 8 лет назад

Great comparison actually, apart from the fact that Mangonels *can* attack more than once ;)

@spaceballs72 8 лет назад

We're just assuming that the mangonel will get destroyed after it fires its first shot. Since the mangonel will be a priority target for the large army.

@Masterbean 8 лет назад

qianstirfry Well, the mangonel is still likely to get more than 1 shot. On the other hand, it's also far more expensive than a demo ship...

@daledo8604 8 лет назад

For what it's worth, keep in mind mangonel also damages your own units - unlike the demo ship.

@FreddieMercurytheSharkWrestler 8 лет назад

Rip skirmisher.

@nicolasneila7301 8 лет назад

Poor little skirmisher. He tought he was invincible...

@dak3031 8 лет назад

If only he had researched Padded Archer Armor

@maistromann136 8 лет назад

He got killed by an archer. He failed as a counter unit

@leh2012 8 лет назад

Press F to pay respects

8 лет назад

@ImAzraa 7 лет назад

Ohhh no the trebs, in the shallows. God that must've hurt. A lot

@tvremote9394 8 лет назад

i feel like this video was sponsored by Michael Bay

@ramyfiyad8564 8 лет назад

lmfao

@PyrrhoVonHyperborea 8 лет назад

Sorry to break it to you.... but the money-trail points back towards al-quaida :(

@pionosphere 6 лет назад

You're saying Michael Bay is funded by terrorists? It makes sense to me.

@PyrrhoVonHyperborea 3 года назад

@arega stevano you really wanna be "that guy" over the "correct" transcription of a word from a totally different language (and *script!* ), for which there *isn't even* a universally agreed upon "correct" spelling? tsktstsk...

@PyrrhoVonHyperborea 3 года назад

@arega stevano with every additional word you manage to sound even dumber than before; how's that even possible?

@monkeyorful 8 лет назад

very good video, I learned a lot about my two prefered things, maths and explosions

@HECKproductions 8 лет назад

you must be a mythbusters fan

@monkeyorful 8 лет назад

HECKproductions oh yeah! haha

@TaToHAoE 8 лет назад

Demos are love, demos are life!

@SpiritOfTheLaw 8 лет назад

Wow, the demo ship legend himself :)

@TaToHAoE 8 лет назад

Ofc! I watch your videos! I had the feeling that I had to comment on this one. Very good work ! :)

@thomashuffcutt9414 8 лет назад

+Spirit Of The Law I don't want to brag, but I once trained a demo ship. also, how to counter AI fire ships? because AI always spams fire ships.

@PyrrhoVonHyperborea 8 лет назад

demos blow

@imgod1000 8 лет назад

Look at the cav archers! Well dont look at the cav archers, cause they are not there anymore! Bye Bye!

@almusquotch9872 8 лет назад

I'm impressed by the amount of data you collect for these videos, all that research must have taken ages.

@HBon111 8 лет назад

Ages you say? ;)

@dinochookproductions5190 8 лет назад

+Kritz Cake Where are your two castle age building??

@carolynharris4993 8 лет назад

well 4 ages to be exact

@closer8583 8 лет назад

Actually, ages of empires lel

@shiftyrye2743 8 лет назад

Gotta love shield puns.

@ingolifs 7 лет назад

I'm impressed to see discussion of the lanchester square law in these videos. I think it's one of those things every strategy player should know about. I've tested it in multiple RTS games; the numerically superior side almost always does better than the square law would suggest. This is because the law assumes that as a soldier or unit becomes more wounded it becomes proportionately less effective, i.e. that its DPS falls with its health. In just about every game, however, units with 1 hp have all the capabilities of units with full health, and so any attack that does not kill a unit is not reducing the fighting strength of the company.

@t3hmaniac 7 лет назад

The exception being C&C3 at least in infantry battles as 1 unit can be up to 5 troops with a shared health pool. Where a 20% health loss is a functional DPS decrease as one of your dudes just died despite technically having the same number of units.

@nemou4985 5 лет назад

@@t3hmaniac Still each individual troop has its own health and capabilities I think. They don't "share" the pool. A more accurate example wuld be Earth 2140 where damaged tanks become slower thus less combat effective (extremely damaged vehicles become immobile)

@CaptainFalcoyd 4 года назад

And as for why Demo Ships break the lanchester square law and trade linearly, it's obviously because they only need to get off one attack each to cause their full effect, it doesn't matter that their numerically superior enemy is ganging up on them and reducing their HPs quickly as long as they can reach their targets before dying, which they usually can.

@meneldal 4 года назад

@@t3hmaniac Total War is probably the best example for this, with formations having very variable number of units (especially in the latest Warhammer one). You can clearly see how the usefulness of high number troops goes down quickly, but troops with fewer numbers that can survive several hits on each troop are able to do a lot more kills when severely outnumbered because they take time to go down and fight at (more or less) top efficiency until they die. They have more mechanics like fatigue that makes unit loose efficiency when they fight even when they don't take damage. The autobattles seem to be very close to the square low from what I've experienced (it doesn't simulate every mechanic to keep it simple).

@alex_zetsu 2 года назад

Shouldn't the fact that 1 HP units have the full abilities mean lanchester's law is diluted since the losing side should keep most of their attack until the fight nears the end?

@ummcake123 8 лет назад

Stannis Baratheon disliked this

@SpiritOfTheLaw 8 лет назад

ha!

@tiraflecha2318 8 лет назад

Nice one! xD

@ummcake123 8 лет назад

Spirit Of The Law Keep up the great vids! :D feels like you revitalized this game

@DeusEversor 8 лет назад

i actually wondered if there owuld be replay of the black water bay battle ;)

@aquajasa 6 лет назад

I have her that idea 😉😉😉😉

@arshiaaghaei 5 лет назад

7:50 Skirmisher: I survived an explosion. I think I'm invincible. Longbowman: I'm about to end this man's whole career.

@798jeremy 3 года назад

Dude, come on...skirmishers are one of the main longbowmen's counter. Don't give some noobs unrealistic hopes, please...

@emirhamam527 8 лет назад

"A bit into math and military theory on this one" How can we not love Spirit

@alexandruanghel9137 8 лет назад

Spirit's videos are a hidden gem on youtube, imo. Great quality content, keep up the awesome work.

@unfig3034 8 лет назад

I found this video very satisfying, if only for the masses of units being destroyed in one hit e_e

@pearse9116 8 лет назад

I could watch that all day.

@unfig3034 8 лет назад

Lopt The Treacherous Indeed.

@paco3523 3 года назад

58 arbalests un one hit 👊

@larydbowie2659 8 лет назад

I play AOE2 to avoid my math homework, you play it BECAUSE its math homework. Love your vids Law

@carlpult5235 8 лет назад

Great vid, much appreciated :) One contributing factor in this may be that If your enemy has more ships, the demoships are more likely to hit a lot of ships at once, making every hit more effective.

@maistromann136 8 лет назад

Are we going to start to see some Demo ship montages now? Maybe some 'Demontages'? :D

@maistromann136 8 лет назад

No one cares about my comments anyway...

@catrielmarignaclionti4518 5 лет назад

@@maistromann136 :C

@aquadelic8457 8 лет назад

Saw a video where some guy blasted around 60 E. Jannisaries with just 3 E. demos, yaicks !

@Volcano4981 8 лет назад

I smell so much gold going down the drain... :P

@aquadelic8457 8 лет назад

Revisited the video : ZeroEmpires Clip of the Day #5 : Full on Demolition ... 2 demo ships take out 40 Jannisaries ... that's about 2200 gold in 1 blow !

@architsaxena8982 8 лет назад

the guy was Tatoh an excellent and always coming out with new strategies aoe player

@MrKleekus 8 лет назад

Wow, I'm here earlier than the death of an army on shallows with demoships patrolling the river.

@bigneto95 8 лет назад

Sup kleekus

@MrKleekus 8 лет назад

Neoedu Hey there!

@Draxis32 8 лет назад

WHAT DID WE'VE LEARNED KIDS? Always have tnt in your pocket to blow the math outta the water.

@daarom3472 5 лет назад

@spirit this video definitely deserves some follow-up. For instance, I've noticed that massed caravels + cannon galleons do very well versus heavy demo's because arrows hit multiple targets and the galleons can do distance-sniping. Would be great to pitch the demo's versus specific civs and see how well they do.

@yrret1996 8 лет назад

Spirit can you make a video about repairing

@BrentZahradnik 8 лет назад

Great idea.

@daddyleon 8 лет назад

Fifthed.

@brainwasher9876 8 лет назад

seventhed!

@yrret1996 8 лет назад

wow i got 42 likes? daym

@migueeeelet 8 лет назад

The way demolition ships counter fire galleys is because fire galleys like to pack around their enemy, they end up in tight groups and thus they get all the splash dmg. Surely if oyu micro the fire galleys you'll reduce damage, but like in that first example, 4 surprise demolition ships completly wrecked the enemy navy :D

@Volcano4981 8 лет назад

Demo ships actually do destroy the fire galleys 1v1 as well assuming they're on equal level, but that certainly helps to make it cost effective.

@migueeeelet 8 лет назад

Volcano4981 You gotta abuse how well fire ships pack around their targets.

@TZerot0 8 лет назад

Spirit of the Law? more like spirit of the excellent aoe2 videos.

@peterbaggaley2981 7 лет назад

I'm glad you brought up the Lanchester square dynamic! Retro-applying this fully explains why the 'multiplying stats' approach didn't accurately predict the cavalier vs paladin results in your vid from last year.

@misteral9045 8 лет назад

Congratulations Spirit. Goal achieved. Mind=Blown. Combining this video with your video looking at the new feudal water balance, it looks like the usefulness of demo ships really jumps up in the imperial age, but still demands that you have the economy to support it with the higher gold cost.

@HECKproductions 8 лет назад

what the fuck is going on in the bottom right at around 8:48?? i thought there was a giant fucking insect on my screen for a second

@ethan1142028 8 лет назад

@Tocaraca 7 лет назад

@iceluffy9055 6 лет назад

HECKproductions that is the secret seamoster XD

@bittersweet1940 4 года назад

Thank you for your effort, I love how you actually find the Lanchester's square law to support the things happening in the real game. Keep it up.

@kizmetmars 8 лет назад

I played a 2v2 a month ago. We were separated by a river with 2 shallows to cross, my ally had 2 demo ships patrol the shallows, wasn't sure why at the time. But, the instant killed army coming our way answered that pretty quickly, GG!

@AinaweeUAE 8 лет назад

Man, this video was way way better than my expectations. Not only were the badabooms entertaining, I absolutely loved your demo vs galley analysis. Keep it up man, you are indeed amazing.

@HawkSea 4 года назад

I always avoided water maps because I didn't feel comfortable understanding the different units but now I do. Thanks for the clarification!

@ethanswanson9209 8 лет назад

Loved the video, especially the charts at the end. Very enlightening.

@NewEnglandOtaku 8 лет назад

I love these ships! When I have a map with shallows, I make sure to use them to full advantage and usually it's troops crossing the shallows in bulk so I easily defend my territory that way most of the time.

@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor 8 лет назад

Thanks for this awesome video Spirit. I always thought that Demo Ships were underrated, I would also try and use them in my AI battles because they were so fun.

@ethribin4188 3 года назад

In other words. Demoships follow Lanchester's linear law. While all others follow the square law. Thus by using Demoships you remove the numbers advantage of an opponenent. But only temporarely. Cause you can use your demo fleet only once.

@efroeli 8 лет назад

Awesome work! One bit of logic behind the relative efficacy of outnumbered demo ships is the idea of "sunk cost" (no pun intended). The end objective of a galley is to attack and survive a battle; the main objective of a demo ship is to explode and cause as much damage as possible. Built into these expectations is the fact that galleys do damage over time, whereas demo ships do all of their damage at once in an AOE explosion. Therefore, any galley shots that actually hit their target but fail to prevent the demo ship from making contact (either by AOE from exploding before the target is reached or by demo ship hitting it's target before the galley can destroy it) is a "Sunk Cost", in that it expended resources to no end. Compare this to a successful micro combat for a galley, in which it eliminates it's target and then pivots to find another, and (at least to me) you can see why Lanchester's Square doesn't hold.

@Slotspinner 5 лет назад

if there wasnt this intro i dont think i would keep clicking those vids as often :D

@SirLaurenceNZ_2 8 лет назад

that counter to demos at the end was insane XD great job as always (ps enjpy the math)

@SirLaurenceNZ_2 8 лет назад

enjoy. gg me

@joewilshire9095 8 лет назад

Oh hell yes! Vintage Spirit!

@zipar3132 8 лет назад

Awesome! I've been waiting for information on demo ships, explosions in general are great. Good video Spirit :)

@Dan0Dead0Or0Alive 8 лет назад

This video was..... the bomb. Sorry I'll leave now.

@IhabZein 8 лет назад

get out.

@ramyfiyad8564 8 лет назад

sponsored by Michael Bay

@brainwasher9876 8 лет назад

he went out with a bang!

@nagoshi01 6 лет назад

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD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@uwielbiamtruskawki6049 4 года назад

@@nagoshi01 funny

@petertimowreef9085 7 лет назад

Dude you are such a blessing to this community. I haven't played AoE in 15 years and I still enjoy these videos haha I wish the games I played had such a methodical dude, carefully calculating everything and then turning all that math into an entertaining and easily watchable video. Oh and no complaining about DLC prices, also very refreshing.

@sam4secretary 2 года назад

this is just fantastic. I know i've watched it before-- but i think this is the crown jewel of the SotL series.

@Killer1986Chris 8 лет назад

YES!!! I was trying to see if you had done one of these the other day and came up dry in my searches.

@generally_empathetic 8 лет назад

poor spearman.. the power went to his head! (along with an arrow..)

@MrMonga 8 лет назад

Excellent! Probably the best mathy video you've made! Loved it! :3

@Bradbradhehe 8 лет назад

Really enjoyed this one, especially when you whacked the graph out

@JanJanNik 5 лет назад

I love these little Machinimas that you do. 7:48

@chetanv1298 8 лет назад

I used to send a ship towards a demo ship and sacrifice it in order to protect the others,or send my own demo ships, but ones which are not full upgraded, just as a counter. Great video, btw waiting for the Aztec civ overview

@eschel2155 8 лет назад

you, good sir, deserve a thumb up!

@trashbag4032 5 лет назад

It makes perfect sense that demos are better than the other ships when you have lower numbers than your opponent. With more ships around, the demos will have more targets to hit and therefore have a bigger damage output.

@Mephisto28890 8 лет назад

Machester's square law makes sense. If you focus fire, you'll take out one of theirs asap, thus they have less units shooting at yours. You don't even need higher numbers for this, some good micro can do the same job. Also,, good idea to always have some demo ships of your own to counter their demo ships. Just shows how important it is to mix up ship types in your fleet. I'll have some demo ships and fire ships in the front, galleons in the middle, and canon galeons in the rear. This way, they'll focus the meele ships first, meanwhile my ranged ships can keep up their attacks, giving me quite some advantage in sea battles.

@mrslim997 8 лет назад

It makes perfect sense for demo ships to not damage your own units because that way they can't damage your own demo ships. Imagine trying to mass them up... if one goes, they all might go. Although such a chain reaction would make a truly beautiful explosion.

@Mausemannolo 8 лет назад

I heard the Saracens can upgrade to Imperial Demo Ship. Allahu Akbar, me hearties.

@fkabici967 8 лет назад

*Insert Fire Temple chanting here*

@HECKproductions 8 лет назад

also elite petard

@ansettwise0005 6 лет назад

They should change their team bonus to this.

@Hamanuna 5 лет назад

@@ansettwise0005 Yeah, it's better than +1 damage from Archers against Buildings

@Xorisonmedia 8 лет назад

Another advantage to them is their speed, you can destroy a fleet/building/army in a matter of seconds. Also if you are being outnumbered and your demo spawns from the dock, the enemy ships dont have time to react and inflict damage. A good reason to have demos if you are ahead, is to counter enemy Demos

@philippst7843 8 лет назад

I think that they follow the linear line most of all because they don't do damage over time but instantaneous. As long as the demo ship hits, it does the same life time damage.

@guardyangel 8 лет назад

I think that the explanation for that graph situation with the demo ships is because of one particular situation about them that you dont see on any other ship: their effective damage potential grows with the ammount of enemy ships. So if your enemy has more ships, your demo ships become "stronger" because they will have more targets to damage in a fight. Thats doesn't happen with other ships, since their damage is a fixed value. They are the epitome of the saying "use the strength of your enemy against himself". (Sorry if i damaged the english language in any way in this post)

@PyrrhoVonHyperborea 8 лет назад

you mean "abused the english language"? - for that you shall be forgiven! ... what I cannot forgive you for, however, is making this comment 10min after I made mine...

@tomscorpion6288 8 лет назад

They do area damage, in simple words. Other ships do target damage.

@Real_MisterSir 8 лет назад

It's kind of like the Caravel, they are not good 1v1 vs Galleons or fast fireships, but when your enemy have several ships the Caravel's attack potential grows relative to the amount of enemy ships it is able to hit. So 10 Caravels own 15 Galleons even though they lose 1v1.

@Walterthefriendly 6 лет назад

So Spirit! I am a big fan. A big mathematical reason that demo ships follow a linear line of effectiveness is because, unlike galleys, they deal 100% or 0% of their dmg, while a galley will deal maybe 10 or even 0% of its "fighting potential" if it only gets 1 shot off on a demo ship that gets its blast off anyways. The demo ship would therefore be more consistent, and less exponential.

@franzluggin398 8 лет назад

I love how you constantly update your intro, but always keep the goths' game plan. Still gets me every time! :-D

@seiromem5708 5 лет назад

I'm certain the Demo ship's advantage comes from the Time portion of RTS- big groups give damage out faster, killing the smaller groups faster than they can retaliate as effectively as you would think. With a demo ship, all of its combat potential is unleashed at once, nullifying the bigger groups advantage of getting more damage out faster to slow down the snowball effect.

@RimaNari 8 лет назад

Very nice video! It's I believe somewhat intuitive to use demo ships when you're behind, but it's fascinating to learn why.

@atocanboi409 3 года назад

you could say this video blew me out of the water

@Hardcore_Remixer 4 года назад

Such a well made video! You really love demo ships.

@MrTheQuestioner 8 лет назад

The math in this one made it all the more impressive and interesting video!

@Subidubivappapp 8 лет назад

Nice indepth video, thank you for doing the "boring" job of running tests for us! :) BUT i think in real games not a lot of things work the same. I mean also you can look for best ship combinations/startegies not just raw data (just like the pikemen+onager combination). Also the relationship between land units vs ships, when land units attack them.

@ZKP314 2 года назад

Didn't realize that the bit in future intros where Demos are blowing Trebuchets in Shallows was based on an actual game.

@Davetheslave3 8 лет назад

Theoretically, you would expect a linear relationship when galleys outnumber demo ships because the "ganging up" effect displayed in Lanchester's laws is not into effect- basically it's irrelevant how much damage the galleys do against demo ships once they reach the galleys because, as you rightly point out in the video, they blow up anyway at that point, and still do damage to the galleys. It's nice to see experiment matching theory in this case!

@MadMamluk88 8 лет назад

Very informative vid. It makes me look at demo ships in pretty much a new light. I'm going to have to use them more frequently now, especially when playing as the Chinese.

@zyzzbrah7022 8 лет назад

Wow, the production quality of your videos is really high, it shows that you put in a lot of work in to them. :)

@jdunnatl 7 лет назад

"I just survived an explosion. I think I'm invincible!" *dead* I lost it.

@animemixer1 8 лет назад

It's worth noting that if you've gotten to Imperial Age and have fully upgraded Heavy Demolition Ships, they're worth using against someone in the Castle Age, as they will not have anything more than War Galley, and a Heavy Demo Ship will kill any nearby War Galley in 1 hit. Of course, there might be exceptions, so think of it more as a general rule. Also, it's only worth it if you kill at least 2 other ships with your one ship. Obvious, really, but something one must keep in mind. In general, mass Galleon might be a better choice. Personally, I always have some Heavy Demo Ships handy in case I come across a large fleet. It's amazing what they can do to ensure my Galleons and/or Fire Ships have an easier time.

@geraldlancaster4804 4 года назад

I have NEVER been so intrigued by a graph before, I would have been a much better math student in high school if it was presented to me in this way.

@ThatguycalledJoe 5 лет назад

One time I made a scenario map where there was a secret pond. All it had in it was a Demolition Ship that would self-destruct, respawn, self destruct again, respawn again, repeat forever.

@Limrasson 8 лет назад

Nice math. I suppose the effect is because the resouces used to create a single point of explosion take away resources from the enemy over an area, hence the linearisation of a quadratic line. But that's jsut a wild guess.

@torminater1990 8 лет назад

@Spirit of The Law : Have you seen that with the inclusion of the demo raft in AoAK the blast radius of upgraded demos/heavy demos is bugged and they do 100% damage in their entire blast radius? Credit goes to Alqualunte for finding that out.

@LaSangriaSolitaria 8 лет назад

Dude truly awesome video, this is legit tactics right here.

@bommking137 8 лет назад

Love the tango music in the background

@MB-wq8cp 8 лет назад

All your videos are awesome. Keep it up man.

@ignaciorossi8571 8 лет назад

Great video, superb research. Keep up the good work!

@curranegan5512 8 лет назад

Good to know! I'm really not a fan of naval combat and almost always end up giving up naval superiority, so I may start using demo ships more now!

@StriKe_jk 8 лет назад

So in short; it's the best to throw a small amount of demos into your army composition in order to protect yourself against other demos and do some good damage with a solid backup line of regular ships.

@tomscorpion6288 8 лет назад

Yeah. But pay attention to their stance, you rarely want them to attack at will.

@Trubripes 3 года назад

The explanation is simple, they blow up regardless how much health is left when they reach the enemy. This means the combined DPS of enemy fleet effectively do not matter. In a fight between "normal" units, the bigger army is doing more damage to a small one, that is why they will win with less than linear losses. this effect does not come into play with things that are inherently suicidal. I think the demo ship vs demo ship fight raises an important problem in military theory, because they model things like attack drone swarm and loitering ammunition.

@TheCherryTrader 8 лет назад

PLEASE NEVER LEAVE US SPIRIT

@Greywander87 8 лет назад

I think a big part of this is that demo ships only get one attack before they're expended. If you had twice as many galleys as me, but our galleys could only attack once, I'd expect you to do twice as much damage. In practice, though, the group with more galleys is going to kill more of their opponents galleys per volley. So while you might do twice as much damage as I do in the first volley, in the second volley you're going to do more than twice as much damage since you sunk more galleys than I did. It's an effect that compounds itself with each volley, but with demo ships you only get one "volley".

@paolasilva1643 7 лет назад

The explotion of the demolition ships is more epic then the explotion of the petards

@ichigoblackTWD 7 лет назад

9:00 please Spirit of the law, tell me the name of that song ;-;

@Yumao420 4 года назад

Fan de tu canal

@Bargiest 8 лет назад

awesome vid man, keep up the good work

@BoxMonkeyPS 8 лет назад

thanks for the info man! really liking all the videos

@ibnmardanis24 8 лет назад

Awesome video as always. Please keep it up! PS.: The demo ship is aoe II's funniest unit for me. hahaha

@kevdx1955 6 лет назад

In African Kingdoms expansion, demo ships do their full damage in all the explosion area. They are much more powerful in that expansion and my favorite unit that I always use and do very epic explosions with AI.

@_Morph1ne_ 4 года назад

Bruh that demo ship chasing those cav archers was scary af 😂

@majordakka5743 5 лет назад

They don't follow the square law relationship because they do AOE damage. This mitigates the "ganging up" effect of enemy units from Lanchester's law

@kalpakkulkarni5270 8 лет назад

Seen a few games where TaToH used demolition ships to great effect. As satisfying to watch as good onager shots.

@InterloperBob 4 года назад

Omg watching the demo ship chase the cav archers was hilarious. Runnnnnnn!!!!!!

@arunphilip 8 лет назад

I wanted to like this video for the joke at 7:50, but was then even more spell-bound with your stats and graphs, Lanchester's law, etc. Great stuff, shame I can't like it once for each thing I liked in it! Talking of stats, just how much time goes into making a video like this? Is it about 10x the video length, or more?

@ricebowlranch 8 лет назад

One of my favorite units to use! So fun! And you also don't have to worry about them taking up population... Not for long, anyway ;)

@BlueGoblin1 5 лет назад

I can't imagine a map with shallows not using hidden demo ships as an insurance policy

@snoozeyoulose9416 3 года назад

I've used the demo ships as a claw back to beat down the horde to regain strength on the water and only in that particular circumstance. They whittle down the mass of ships seeking to obliterate all of my fishing docks.

@darkuser9992 5 лет назад

holy sh*t had no idea demo ships were so powerful against land troops.....has to be a specific map where your base is near shallows!

@michaelcorcoran3942 8 лет назад

Hey man I just found you and in the last 2 weeks...perhaps sadly I have watched everyone of your videos..lol.... Anyway can't wait for the rest of those Civ overviews.