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Thanks for the video brother! Don't worry, it all makes sense. I know all about this stuff... theoretically. Although, having it explained step by step, with attention to every detail was really helpful. Seems like you're a natural born teacher man. Keep up the good work. \m/
THIS CHANNEL IS A HIDDDEN JEM...this channel should be the standard that all Luther's channels aspire to .. ABSOLUTELY INFORMATIVE. Clear and thorough instruction ....
I came here after a fender video that i consider the laziest video I've ever watched. Yet here i am 30 seconds into a video not made by a corporation and i can already tell im going to actually learn something here. And I'll probably be watching more videos. Thank you. I wish i had money to give you.
I know exactly which video. The dude from fender actually says multiple times, "I'm not gonna waste my time actually adjusting this thing..." glad I'm not the only one who thought it was a complete waste of time.
i'm a little confused, if you gave the extra 1.5mm to keep the strings from bottoming out, shouldn't the measurement needed above the body be 12mm so that when the bridge is completely decked the strings are somewhat off the fret still?
I think the 1.5mm was a safety factor so the saddles would ideally be raised the 1.5 and not need to be decked. If something went wrong and action needed to be lower he could still lower the saddle. You could stick a 1.5 shim under a saddle and lower it until it contacts the shim and then measure the height. Basically he's pretending the decked saddle bridge height is 1.5mm thicker than it actually was and he's including that to his neck angle tweak so the strings wind up higher if anything.
You really do make it sound so much harder than it is. and as for shims pushing frets out on older instruments......never in your life. Good to see a bloke doing his own necks though. So many people posing as builders now is nuts.
Absolutely brilliant! You described all the concepts of neck angles fully and explained the options and how to decide which option you need to choose. It's everything I wanted to know for building my first electric guitar. Thank you!
Surprised people would be confused by the simple geometry of neck angle. Can't stand Strats because the bridge is so low. I find Les Pauls much more natural and comfortable to play with the higher bridge, especially when muting.
Not everyone gets it. There's also a lot of information out there that often doesn't make sense. I really struggled to find half decent explanations out there when I was learning. I agree with the tune-o-matic muting, so much easier. Not sure about having my hand so tall though!
Greta explanation! I have been hearing about neck angle , but never found any information about it. How would you work it out on a neck through design; such as the example you have hanging on the wall behind you?
Ok I get it but with a strat why can't you recess the bridge plate into the body between an1/8 inch up to possibly 1/4 inch. Same with LP guitars the bridge and tailpiece slugs can be recess into body a little bit say 1/8 inch yes you will have to drill oversized and slightly deeper seeing a tilted neck just shouldn't need to be then the strings are not level over frets
Absolutely, I've done this myself too. Most people don't like the look though, so I don't consider it a preferable method. Also, it makes sanding annoying! At the end of the day, it doesn't matter the method so long as you make the maths work.
Sean, I am a Luthier for the last 35 years , you have simplified neck angle perfectly. great video I have learned from it , I build mostly acoustic instruments so found this very helpful on my current 5 string bass (neck Through) build , Thanks so much for the great video.
Doing this on my PRS build, and just realized they have a body plane angle, and a neck angle? If I do a body plane angle of say 1 degree and route the neck pocket you still have a straight line form bridge to nut - so you might need to do something at the neck pocket or neck heel like you show, to get it to align up. Will do your math THEN to find out, but I will take down the top first so it matches up to the binding thickness of 6mm. Then I will go for neck pocket straight and finally, angle the heel using your math. Am I thinking correctly here?
I think you're on the right track. You can also adjust the top angle, which should get you the right angle or close to. Usually prs styles will have most of the angle on the heel though
Honestly this video helped me adjust my new guitar baritone neck (Modified to my on comfort lol) without making a modification to my body (i wanted to leave it stock just in case i wanted to put my old standard scale length neck on). The neck had too much reveal in comparison to my headstock and With this videos help, i learned that the neck actually had TOO MUCH reveal. I didnt want to make any more modification to the neck, so i decided to shim it upward. Does it look good? Not particularly. But it plays beautifully and im no pro luthier yet. Lol
If you're getting premade neck shims, you can measure the distance from the front of the neck pocket to the bridge saddles, plug that figure along with the desired increase in bridge saddle height into an online triangle calculator to give you an angle for the shim.
Great tutorial! On my first build and this video has given me confidence in the process. It's always the details that stump me. What do you consider too much reveal to the point where you have to create a neck angle? >5mm? Does it depend equally on bridge style and guitar appearance?
Had to learn this with a 2005 Squier Bullet. The guitar was a $ 25, summer of 2019 purchase and at the price, I figured even if I screwed it up, it was worth trying to make the instrument better than it was. One can always buy a new body or neck to restart, but that was an expensive screw up. Neck pocket depth is a perspective. By that. I mean, is the neck pocket shallower or is the neck heel thicker for the full length neck pocket shim ? Either way, the neck had to retain the ideal neck angle and be raised 1/16 of an inch (.0625 in/1.5875 mm). Critical is getting the truss rod adjusted for the relief at the 8th & 9th frets. Nut slot cutting is relief gap at the first fret. Assembled guitar & I was able to get the shim reversed engineered by how much saddle height screw was protruding for the worst offender(s) as the thickness I needed to shim the neck pocket area up. Set up is a breeze for this guitar now, I don't have to mess with saddle height anymore, the top of the saddle post screw doesn't stick up to be rough to the touch. By shimming the neck up, I did have to ensure the pickups had that raising adjustment though, otherwise the guitar would never really sound right. the strings would be too far away from the pole pieces/magnets to sound like it should. I hand sanded on a level surface using a carpenters bubble level. The neck angle wasn't an issue for this guitar for neck pocket & neck heel. For my shim, I used the hardest plastic backing for a hardwood floor sample. So my shim is a flat shim of uniform thickness. and the entire heel of the neck is supported in the neck pocket Mu screw holes are even as tightly tolerances as anything the guitar was built to from CORT's Indonesia factory for the 4 neck bolts. Amazing after a decade plus of being that far off, I finally made it right in early 2022 (17 years). I had it 2.5 years and finally got fed up with the action height and it's wonky sound. No wonder the seller told me the guitar sat around unplayed, it was nearly unplayable, judged as just a crappy cheap Squier Bullet SSS HT Strat. I had bought a Squier Affinity that was built right also in Summer 2019. That was the one that was a template for making the Bullet right too. What tipped me off was a the side profile of a neck pocket sandwich, the body, the pickguard, the maple and then rosewood. The body & Rosewood fretboard is the bun, the pickguard is the cheese slice & the maple is the meat in that neck pocket area of a sandwich. Sorry for a long comment, it's for anyone that wants to know how I did this particular one, a teaching tool. Shimming like my project, if you screw up is totally reversible, just start over with another shim. No harm, no foul, sell the guitar & new buyer can reverse to his preference. All I know is I enjoy this guitar even more and it's quite a daily player at this point. After all this work, one fellow told me in the end I'll just have a Squier Bullet, which is true, but a Squier Bullet doesn't have to be a bad instrument either. There are no bad guitars, just bad builds & set ups. This Bullet sounds & plays as well as most any guitar that prices at $ 100's more MSRP.
Great video, do you have a video on how to carve that neck profile? I know what it is and who makes it, but the source of the infromation seems to have made it imposible to get acces to the purchasable data on it. I'm avoiding naming companies and profile style just in case.
Hi Sean - and sorry Sean, that I didn’t initially recognise you. But when I started watching this video, I wondered if you might’ve been talking with the people from a certain guitar place in Piddlehinton - then I recognised the place you shot this in; it’s sad seeing a guitar school unable to conduct classes. I was on the last class week that Chris taught on and all this was not explained well art all then, courtesy of a class structure with just too many 6-day students like me. Great school, great instructors but an extreme under-resourcing of instructor time for that week. But something you have me wondering about and that’s considering the full scope for adjustability in the bridge. I would bring the upper and lower bridge adjustment limits into the puzzle. My gut feel is that things with adjustments should be initially installed so the the adjustment is mid-range and that the realistic extremes of adjustment will be catered for too. In this context, I think I mean that high-E will not stick up too high, to match the fretboard/bridge radius, and that low-E will not be forced too low. So the bridge middle is only part 7of the optimising puzzle - or am I over-complicating things? Granted, in all this, if the neck, it it’s straight state, was comfortably within a good adjustment range, then ‘I would leave it alone. Ian B
Thanks for the video. I play archtops and semi hollows which have neck angels to create a taller bridge with more down pressure on the bridge which transmits more string vibration into the body. It also makes it a bit more comfortable to play because of the slight angel that sort of wraps your body. In other words, the reason for the neck angle could be personal playing position and comfort and the desire to feel more vibrations from the body. Not just a practical reason to match the bridge. Thoughts?
Best and easiest to understand video on setting neck angles - excellent - thank you for taking your time doing this - there are so many bad complicated videos on this subject out there - big kudos to you.
I am currently building a bass with a hipshot kickass bridge, my first bass build, wondering what kind of wood you use for the core of the body, I am using a 1/4” Walnut top, what kind of wood would you suggest to keep the weight down? How thick is the total body depth, top and core combined? Do you ever chamber your bass bodies to lighten them?
I've watched several videos on the neck angle issue, and here's what I fail to understand: why can't we just install and align the neck, take one saddle down as low as we want it to be plus some wiggle room, put a straight edge over the frets and check if it clears the top of the saddle? I believe it's the default method for acoustics. Why all the complications with electric guitars? Or is the method just for guitar makers, while guitar players working on a fully assembled instrument with frets and whatnot can go by the straight edge method?
What you describe is excatly how to measure a neck angle. I simple measure that height and use the number instead of the physical bridge and then build the neck pocket accordingly. Before installing the neck, we must first make a neck pocket. Neck angle should be considered when building first and formost and realistically, there should be no reason for a player with a fully finished and assembled guitar to worry about it at all unless something bad is happening. With an acoustic, I understand soundboards can move and such, which will mess with the angle and that's a different story, but electric guitars should really never need an angle playin with unless it's been built incorrectly. Fender guitars are an example here. They are all built with an angle too low to properly accomodate a trem bridge or taller. This is why almost all Fender guitars with anything but a hardtail will need a neck shim; they are simply built wrong. Sound like sacrilidge to say, but a shim is a remedial technique and nothing more.
@@AwenLutherieCustomGuitars Yes, I ended up shimming my Strat as well. In my case the pocket was routed incorrectly, it was sloping towards the body, so I used a shim to flatten the pocket. It took some experimentation with thickness and materials, for factory-made shims are overpriced and can't be easily obtained where I'm at. The Elixir strings packaging turned out to be the best fit. It's quite hard but still compressible as any cardboard material is.
what if I dropped the bridge to it's lowest point and still have high action? evrything else is good. so can I just take the post of the floyd rose and just cut a piece off like a quarter inch and voila, then I can lower the action more.? thanks for anserwing, there are zero videos about this big problem.
It sounds like your neck angle is just wrong, I'm afraid. Shimming the neck (if possible) would probably sort it, but make sure to use a full size shim and not a bit of cardboard or paper. Alternatively, figure out a way to reduce the height of the bridge by recessing it, although that will probably be more work and more mess.
Awesome video. You’re a great teacher! Focusing on the important points and not overly complicating things 👍 just for clarification, this process is done on an already finished guitar body right? Because the paint and finish will raise the height of the bridge?
I am fortunate that I stumbled across your video the way that you explained everything just made it "click" in my head,and your right I have been overthinking this for some time now. Great video and keep them coming, I'm going to check what others you have. Thank you much!!
agreed, best video on this subject so , nice work! After doing the math that you showed for reference , I file the front of the neck pocket a little at a time and keep checking using a string from nut to saddles and just touch the last fret and that is with the saddles adjusted all the way down flat so I have room for adjustment. Slow and easy is best when doing this adjustment. I too hate shims since solid wood to wood contact is best for string transfer. Using inserts with actual bolts is also best imo. Thanks
Hello, very good video. I'm measuring and doing the math of the video and it turns out that the fretboard 6.5mm plus the 2mm fret and neck action is 8.5mm. On the other hand, the bridge measures the plate plus the barrel at the lowest point 7.60mm plus 1mm is 8.60. So it's perfect by putting the fretboard at body level. But if I want to put a 3mm pickguard it turns out that I have the neck at 11.5mm and the bridge at 8.60. Is this compensated by the margin of the elevation of the bridge saddles, or is it unfeasible to put a pickguard on it?The fretboard protrudes from the end of the heel of the neck. The pickguard needs a space to get under the fretboard up to the heel
Thankyou for a very detailed and highly concise and useful video on how to accurately change the neck to the proper angle without needing trigonometry . I'm presently attempting to adjust a bass guitar. ( while assuming the manufacturer got something right ) .
Man, great video. I have this problem in my les paul, where i can't get the action lower than 2 mm (with the bridge on its lowest) due to the neck angle being wrong. Couldn't I sand the neck pocket itself instead of the back of the neck? I tried "shimming" the neck to get the angle, but then i get a lot of fret buzz on the higher digits because the neck is higher on the pickup side. I'm from brazil, even luthiers out here do'nt get this neck angle problem right, the guitar is a budget one and I learn all I can about adjustments by myself from english videos. Please help me! Thanks!
As a rule of thumb, I never touch the neck pocket. It's tricky to do anything cleanly and too easy to go too far and make gaps. It sounds like you may have shimmed too much if it introduced fret buzz.
3:22 I'm using a floyd rose special. Since the bridge is going to be recessed into the top, is the 1.5 mm added to the bridge height necessary? Thanks for the channel. Love your builds.
If you are recessing the bridge, then you can just take that off the bridge height. A recess can also be used instead of the reveal that I talked about in the video. Think of it kinda like a see-saw that you are trying to balance. Either you can lift one end (the neck) or drop the other ( recess the bridge). Both have the same effect at the end of the day,
Excellent description. Overall very clear. Your process of planing the neck makes the most sense. Or the pocket. I don't really get when it would apply to plane the soundboard. That sounds risky.
Glad it was clear and hopfully helpful. As for planing the top of the guitar, it's something only done for carve top instruments with a tall bridge such as a Tune O Matic. If you're interested, I use this method on my GGBO 2020 build in video 4, approximately 12:30 in. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-a6_Hqe9aKeU.html&ab_channel=AwenLutherie-CustomGuitars
This video is awesome, you're helping me make my first guitar. I have a couple of doubts. Do you suggest to route the neck pocket and later handplane the neck? How do you calculate the angle for the routing? Thanks!
I'm glad it's helpful. I would suggest routing first and then handplane, yes. Otherwise you are just guessing with the plane and that's not so useful. For the angle, I have measured the distance from the most forward point of the neck pocket to the scale line. Then I meaure the height of the bridge and take away the combined height of the fretboard, reveal of the neck, frets and some space for action. I then make some wedges that vary by that height over that distance. For example, I use a TOM bridge, which is 16mm tall. My fretboard is 6.5mm, reveal is 1mm, frets+some action 2mm (total 9.5mm). In this case 9.5 - 16 = 6.5mm. If I measure the front of my neck pocket to the scale line, it is 250mm. In this case, I would make a pair f wedges whose height tapers by 6.5mm over 250mm and that will be the correct angle for the guitar. I hope that makes sense.
So if I understand correctly, it is the same with a neck through body? for example a fixed schaller 6 hannes bridge should be parallel to the top fret with a gap of 2mm?
Exactly the same with a neck through, although you can't adjust as easily after the fact. You really need to plan things out and get it right first time with a neck through.
Thank you for the information. What do you think about recessing the bridge into the body ? For example a tune o matic style bridge. If i recess the bridge and use maybe a 7,5mm thick fretboard it should be close. I think you can´t use that with a tail piece because you can´t get the angle over the saddles right but if you use string through body it should work with a straight neck angle or would something like that a bad idea ?
Recessing the bridge is an option, but I'm not a fan personally. So long as you get that height at the bridge correct, the method doesn't much matter really. Sometimes recessing the bridge will create problems with adjustment, but also makes sanding a lot more difficult. As for the tailpiece, you'd probably also have to recess that, or string through the body, like you say.
Hurrah hurrah Finally someone who is explaining this properly. I build guitars as a hobby and being a Professional Engineer it is easy for me to understand the math behind this. I belong to several YT groups but it is almost impossible to explain to others.
Really concisely and clearly explained Arwen! I’m interested in making an SG style guitar, but would prefer something like the Schäller stop-tail bridge, as opposed to the usual tunomatic, which I am not a fan of! Would this avoid such a steep neck angle as the SG normally has (I kind of feel the neck is working it’s way around my back…..!) I would welcome your thoughts! 😊😊🍷🍷🎸🎸
Planning a guitar build with just parallel neck but thinking about neck pocket and reveal to setup fret hight in relation to bridge at medium setting has helped. Thanks
Interested to see that you put your planes down flat on the bench. I was always taught to lay them on their side to avoid damaging or re-setting the blade.
I know this is one of those debates that rages around constantly! I personally don't think it makes any difference, so long as the bench is clean. If there's a nail or screw or something then sure that may damage the blade, but a wooden bench won't damage a hardened steel plane blade. My only consideration may be that on its side, I could potentially brusy my hand against the exposed blade. I know some people say gravity could adjust the lateral alignment of the blade while the plane is on its side too, but I can't imagine this happening either unless the lever cap is super loose, which is its own problem.
Love this video. Trying to get my head around the methods for a TOM build (flat top) I'm working on. My plan is to use your suggestion with the spacer block at the bridge, and use 3 straight pieces of wood as a router sled to put an angle into the neck joint. However, you threw me by saying you use 'tapered' wedge. Why would it be tapered if you're using the spacer block?
If you plane an angle into the bottom flat of your neck heel like you did, the butt-end of the heel will no longer be square, and the heel will make positive contact with neck pocket only along its lower edge and will introduce a gap above the edge, which is detrimental to sustain. Admittedly, the gap is quite minimal, but it can make its presence felt. The second one of your three options, where you angle the template to route the whole neck pocket at an angle is ideal for a flat-top guitar. And of course, planing an angle into the body itself - your first option - is the best for arch-tops.
Ideally planing the neck heel would be more of a fettling operation and you would use one of the other options to achieve the angle correctly. You are right that it will open up a slight gap, but unless you are planing a lot of the angle into the neck heel, it should only be a tiny gap. As for its effect on tone and/or sustain, I believe that would be the case, but not noticable in any way shape or form. It would be one of those things that only maybe would be visible on an oscilloscope. At the end of the day, there are lots of holy grail guitar out there with less than perfect fitting neck pockets. Plenty of them have massive cavities behind the neck heel!
@@AwenLutherieCustomGuitars So with all of this said couldn’t you just square off the butt end of the neck a little so it seats flush and square ? This will shorten the scale length slightly but couldn’t you either move your bridge back by the adjustment distance or just use the bridge adjustment screws ?
If I remember rightly, sanding is really the only option with that style of neck heel. You'll have to be super careful to keep everything flat, and take things very slowly. I personally don't like those style of neck joint and I try to avoid them at all costs!
@@AwenLutherieCustomGuitars Thanks, I used a tension on my GGBO scratch build this year and it was indeed a pain to get right. Definitely will avoid using that style in the future.
Metal strips are fretWIRES. Frets are the spaces between the fretwires. There is no such thing as a tremolo bridge. It is a "vibrato bridge" because the bar is a vibrato bar, NOT a tremolo bar.
I'm afraid it's a little more functional than that. Primarily it's to allow the trings to project from the fretboard onto the bridge. When you have a taller bridge such as a Tune O Matic or even an archtop style, then it absolutely angles the neck back, making it more comfortable for fretting hands for some people.
@@AwenLutherieCustomGuitars You have it backwards. Tune O Matics etc. were made tall to accommodate the neck angle. Why not have a 0 degree neck and make a short bridge like a Strat ot Tele? because the FUNCTION of the neck angle is to allow the wrist of the fretting hand to maintain a straighter more comfortable and healthier angle.
I got a question to you….what about the nut? How do you establish the right height of it? I mean carving the fretboard or putting it just close to the end of the fretboard?
