Dennis Rodman saying Larry Bird would play in Europe in this era sparks a Jokic debate | First Take 

😂😂😂😂

No way. Rodman may have some funny wiring in his head, but Bird wanted no part of a young Dennis Rodman's defense. Bird played well against Rodman in his rookie year (1987) , but after that, it was lights out, culminating in Celtic playoff losses to the Pistons in 1988 and 1991. During those early years, Rodman was the most intense defensive wing player I have ever seen...

he took a title from Jordan that's all we gotta say

Lml Rodman ain’t have ish on Bird talking all that smack 😂😂

@@SapphicTwist you trippin

Lmfao rofl

😂😂

Tmrw mad dog Wednesdays

True 😂😂😂😂😂

You don't know what an aneurysm is

Scottie Pippen too. And both of them were guarding him AFTER he had that initial back injury in 1985.

Nope. He could play today for sure because of his mindset and skills but it's deeper than that. If Bird was born in this era of course He'd be like a great player. It's all in the mind

Bird will dominate this era.

the way the nba called today he would dominate he would constantly be at the line and would be encouraged to shoot more 3s... not only would he be good in todays league as was in the 80s but he would be arguably better....

@@masterlucky379 Absolutely, specially with todays rules. He was the best 3 pointer shooter of his time. But on the 80 players and coaches liked to play closer to the rim.

Exactly

Yes

True

Spot on.

thats very close but Jokic is a better passer

Nah, Rodman has had something against Bird since the 80's. He also said Bird would just be thought of as another guy if he was black - and that was in the 80's in the prime of Birds career after he'd just won 3 MVP's and had 3 titles already.

He is broke. That's why.

😂True 😂

Jokic is not a good defender but he’s not terrible either

@@montagehq9872your brain is like 4 yrs behind but it’s ok. Here’s an update from the future, Jokic just won a ring playing good defense

He's just a racist towards white people. Thats accepted and even ENCOURAGED in todays USA.

​@@mikaelsmith22He didn't win with defense. Stop lying.

@@Jonathan-pp3du the team held Minnesota, phoenix, and Miami under 90 multiple times what are you talking about?

Steph took notes from Bird

Naw Rodman was sorry

I agree he was near the top but Rodman was definitely more conditioned than anyone. It's well documented.

​@@JP-jd8wrlol

Is that why his back went out and he had to retire early?

The only guy worth listening to on this D- panel.

'He had a good first step'.💀

This crew was super dead i felt asleep on them...but Legs is worth listening to always

Ty brother

@@jdaking7648 Bird didnt have a good first step?

No jokic is not a good defender

@@anthonytaylor7928I also didn’t think he was until I actually watched this year. His positioning and size make him an average to above average defensively especially in the playoffs

@@anthonytaylor7928 some people can't read properly I guess 🤷‍♂

Imagine if white folks took hoops seriously. Jokic just broke the legend of Wilt Chamberlain with his side hustle.

@@greatnesspersonified3305and his IQ …

That's just cus of growing up there , and maybe a little more physical , but they only play 34 games before playoffs in the toughest European League

Which why Arvydas Sabonis was jokic and was the best European player ever he the reason they made the dream team and the nba made him wait until he had injuries to let him in!

@aerodynamic8264 Grewup Blazer fan Loved Sabonis, but he said he didn't join cus of all the injuries he had , wasnt until he felt healthy he came over

@@DatsjoeYT alright chief settle down

They said it is harder to score in Europe. NBA has better athletes, pace, longer games, more games,... making it harder to play.

Bird may have made things look easy, only because of the competition he was playing. He was way better than the majority of the NBA at that time. There were only 2 hands full of superstars then too. Imagine going outside and dominating the people in your neighborhood, See what I’m saying? It’s all about who you’re playing against. Different eras. I’ll admit the last 6-8 years of the NBA have been trash tho.

Larry was the best player of his era . Not the fastest, nor the most athletic. But THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER OF HIS TIME. . Even my 2 idols Ishia homas and Dominic Wilkins said it clearly.

@@GainsMarathon You obviously never watched 80's NBA live. "There were only 2 hands full of superstars " ???!!! Pleeeasee : Magic Johnson, Moses Malone, Ralph Sampson, Kevin MacHale , Bill Walton, Hakeem Olajuwown, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, James Whorty, Bob Mcadoo, The Doctor Julius Erving, Karl Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Barkley, Ishia, Michael Cooper, Robert Parish and my all time favorite Dominique Wilkins. All these players would dominate today's weak and SOFT (with capital T) NBA divas. (NaI’msaying?)

@@ShakaZuluX ok maybe 3 hands full lol. But Compared to how many players total in the NBA? 😂 Yea I agree they’ll be good in todays era, but not all would be able to shoot the 3 consistently. todays era does suck. But not 90s-2015. Imho

@@ShakaZuluX Bird is in no way in the same conversation as the Joker.

Joker had three game saving blocks last year. Possibly four. I don’t remember anyone else having any.

Dude has his defensive moments. But not the defensive player Bird was. Overall, they all had the pros and strengths

Yeah Bird was an incredibly smart defender.

True and Jokic literally have multiple game winning[ or saving] blocks. This guy is just another casual

Color people mad 'cause Bird was better offensively and defensively than Magic. Its hard to play defense card when Bird was way better defender than Magic

bird would be one of the worst defenders in the league from 2000+

@@Adj8llkshut up

Rodman has had something against Bird since the 80's. He also said Bird would just be thought of as another guy if he was black - and that was in the 80's in the prime of Birds career after he'd just won 3 MVP's and had 3 titles already.

Joker is better at basketball

Few months ago Pippen said MJ was a horrible player before he teamed up with him😂😂😂

If bird was in the nba today he wouldnt come close to cracking the top 10. Take Luka. He’s far more skilled than bird ever was

Have you heard of trolling? Rodman is a well known clown

As a person from Indianapolis I can validate this statement about Bird

Just can’t put him above Larry I just don’t see it.

Who did Barnum and Bailey play for

Ur mom@@coachhbosoccer

He is a bad defender

Imagine if white folks took hoops seriously. Jokic just broke the legend of Wilt Chamberlain with his side hustle.

Yep! Bird, MJ, and all those greats would have lit up this current NBA with these new soft rules. No hand checking. No elbows in the paint. Flagrant fouls weren't called in that era like today. You got beat the fk up driving towards the basket.

@@alvinjohnson2402 yeah but the question was what would these older players be like in this era. If add the soft rules, would the old school players be as good of a defender if he wasnt allowed to be physical? Pretty much rely on sliding your feet and keep your arms raised and no reaching in.

​@alvinjohnson2402 Anyone can look like a better defender than they are when they're allowed to be physical, hard foul, and hand check. What about when they actually have to try and stay in front of someone? I doubt that EVERYBODY in the 80s or 90s was a lockdown defender. There's players in this era who have proven to be good to great defenders without the need to hand check or hard foul.

The legends weren't afraid to mix it up and get physical. Bird in his prime was as tough as they come. He would have a field day with today's soft stars who can't handle contact and who cry for calls.

@@alvinjohnson2402 Michael Jordan is a better version of Demar DeRozan with championship 🤷🏾‍♂️

this era is soft........nothing need be argue

This era is soft because of many reasons... but if we are speaking specifically basketball look at the rules now and look at what they were then. Night and Day.

Old timers are stuck in the past and they think they were facing the best, they played in the toughest era, played against the most skilled players etc. The most of it is the myth. The arguably best player in the 80"s couldn't shoot the ball. Magic Johnson in today's game would have been liability . Rodman is just the realist here and people can't take the truth.

He wasn't elite on defense.

@@Jonathan-pp3du tell that to his multiple All Defensive Team selections. You don't make all defensive team without being an elite defender

Absolutely.

​@@Jonathan-pp3duthis isnt 2k. Its real life.

Bird over Kobe,wilt,Kareem,Shaq, KD....? Bruh I can keep going lol

@@rasheeddozier6083 I should have clarified that I'm talking about the 3pt line era (since 1980). Yes I would put Bird over Kobe, Shaq and KD.

@@justsayin669 gotcha 😎... Even at the 3 u taking him over curry Klay KD ?? Just curious

@@rasheeddozier6083 I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm saying that out of the players who have played during the 3pt line era (players who have played since 1980 when the 3pt line was added), I would place Bird as the 3rd greatest player of that era (of the past 40+yrs). I'm not saying that Bird is the 3rd greatest 3pt shooter in NBA history. So if you are asking if I would put Bird's 3pt shooting ability above Steph, KD and Klay's 3pt shooting ability, well that's not what I was saying at all. However I would say that Bird was a greater overall player than Steph, KD and Klay. Like I said, the only 2 players who I would somewhat confidently say are greater than Bird since 1980 are LeBron and Jordan, that's it. I'd probably put Bird ahead of every other player in the 3pt line era.

@@justsayin669 well said 💯

Why you look so angry Tiger???

Bird couldn't play in today's NBA. He's too slow

@@stevenhornostaj5676 luka is a perfect example of why ur wrong

@@Venom272X Luca is a beast and much bigger

@@stevenhornostaj5676 And is the joker fast? You people say the dumbest things, the NBA has always been about skills. If you’re a great skill player and you have athleticism that’s a plus. But basketball is always been a skill sport. And Bird is one of the most skilled players ever.

@@SilverSurfer87 👆 facts

Bird would be consider MVP every year in today s league, and bird was a great post player, and he would have it easier in today's league in post, bird would kill this league without shooting 3s

Lol cap bird was slow and unathletic who is he gne guard in todays game

@@mississippimade6483 who's gonna guard him? He's a 6'9" forward that can shoot. He's like Kevin Durant or Jayson Tatum except can pass, rebound and play down low better than both of them

@@takuanfuan7 he's a better shooter than klay imo and that's not a knock on klay bird was just that good

Bird is no Joker. Case closed.

No he doesn't

@@cojack636 yes he does .go look it up

Straight up... he was that dude!

Imagine if white folks took hoops seriously. Jokic just broke the legend of Wilt Chamberlain with his side hustle.

And Jokic couldn’t?? After the playoffs he just had?

@@yoceedub7987 Big Perk's cookout is prob still off limits to him for reasons known only to God.

The Celtics were stacked too. Mchale Parish, Dennis Johnson

@@tyronthompson3903 still though, Magic, Kareem, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper Bird had about 8 healthy seasons. Had he had more seasons he would've won some more titles. Maybe in 1990. In 91 that would've been a great ECF Celtics vs Bulls. Larry Bird was injured working a tractor that didn't operate right and it injured him in 1987.

Nope

@@jaylebron777 casual 🤣🤣

@@jaylebron777 👆 this guy sounds like Dennis rodman not giving any explanation to his idiotic comments

@@jaylebron777 he asked a question how many legends can say that and you said "nope." I've never heard of a legend named nope. What's his last name?

Look... yall IQ prolly 90-110, and that might be a stretch. The dude called me a casual.. he is a hypocrite. I ain't even judging him. I'm just saying.. dont attack, come with facts I forgot what to say, but... Larry Bird was like none other. It's the reason why the white boy with no athletic ability, according to modern NBA standards, dominated. I watch and I see... but its deeper than that

Bird was a legendary rebounder. So is Jokić.

If Jokic had to deal with legit centers and Bigs like in Bird's era, I don't believe he'd get as many rebounds(maybe 9-10/game). Jokic wasn't guarded by a 7foot player the whole playoffs except Rudy(weak). Jokic is a good rebounder in an era where there aren't that many great rebounders, and he's taking advantage like he should.

Bird out-rebounded Moses Malone in a Finals. Moses is arguably the best rebounder in post-merger history - led league 6x. Agree Jokic is better mainly because he is a center and is closer to the rim most often. And he's taller.

Corrections are often needed when a former players speaks on a different sport.

bird was a better rebounder than joker period.... he played on a team with parish and mchale and still usually led... in a league where the middle was clogged... he literally fought for boards and held his own in the finals vs moses.... joker is good but he gets SO MANY BOARDS completely alone and no one near him. apples and oranges

jokic 7ft.. he’s just in the way.

@@jalilcook5113 true ballers know the effect he has on the game on the defensive end.

@@jalilcook5113 if he 'just got in the way' he wouldn't be considered the best player in the world. he'd be considered the best 'offensive' player in the world. no. he's the best all around player. sure, he doesn't 'rim defend.' but rim defending is 1 out of 20 diff't ways you can defend

@@jalilcook5113 That's the point of defense; being between the offensive player and the hoop.

Imagine if white folks took hoops seriously. Jokic just broke the legend of Wilt Chamberlain with his side hustle.

Hakeem Olajuwon would have something to say about that or he is in this debate

You dont know a lick of ball, I want to call you names cause thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Rodman failing to get minutes? A PF who cant shoot? Wait a sec where have we seen that again, oh Draymond. Quit the internet and throw your phone out

He'd have like 30 rebounds a game

@@Original94no he wouldn’t

@@Original94 he wouldn't

@@Original94 he'd be unplayable in 4th quarter In the 90s you couldn't zone like you can now he'd be left open and all his teammates would be seeing multiple bodies on every possession And if they put the ball in his hand he couldn't playmaker well enough to break the defense plus you could just hack a shaq him and send him to the line

No its not its just facts

I'll agree with most of this except the fact that teams couldn't double on or off the ball in the 80s only when they drove to the paint, also the athleticism of today's era is on another level but bird would be a far better player in this era. Luka and Jokic are proof of that.

The game is also far more skilled and versatile

No he wouldn't. He wouldn't even be 30ppg scorer.

​@@jdankerdakeFinally, someone who understands how ridiculous the "X player would average 40 if they played today" statement is. No one would average 40.

Or, he remembers it. 😉

exactly! why I like Rodman was a player, but quotes like those is why I can't take him seriously when he talks, especially about my fellow Hoosier State native like Larry Legend

Bird is a cut above Jokic though 😏🤷

Relax. Jokic is a great player. But Larry Legend is just too advanced to even be compared to. But I digress 😊

@@vincente4570 never said he wasn't, i meant that he's talking as if jokic is a bad defender, he is actually underrated defensively tbh

@@MrKohulann30 From what I saw. He at times selectively play defense because he’s too concerned about foul trouble. But a real defender plays ball until he has to back down due to foul trouble. But I digress 😎

That's because Scottie lost the plot when his wife left him for his old teammate's son.

Nah, Rodman has had something against Bird since the 80's. He also said Bird would just be thought of as another guy if he was black - and that was in the 80's in the prime of Birds career after he'd just won 3 MVP's and had 3 titles already.

@@poocrayon4588 Yeah Rodman just doesn't really care of Bird and people that fawned over him back then.. but Rodman was in his feelings.

@@poocrayon4588 I remember, that it was him and Isaiah Thomas who made the comment about being just another player if he was black. But you can't deny that Rodman has been about self-promotion, do you remember him dressing in a wedding dress.

@@thomasgriffiths6758 lol yes I do

But at the same time players today benefit from newer fitness, coaching, and equipment advancements. If players from today played back then they might be injured constantly. If bird played today he might benefit from having a whole personal training and medical staff. It's simply impossible to know.

things are always different, but my point is that the pool of talent players are recruited from nowadays is so much greater. it simply takes a lot more to dominate the world of basketball in 2023 than in the 1980s.

@@krigry32 I think the greats are still going to be top tier. It's the benches that are going to struggle to play.

LMAO what a joke take. Bird did not encounter players like Giannis or Jokic? Bird was up against MJ, Magic, Dominique Wilkins, Barkley, Moses Malone, Dr. J, Kareem, Dennis Rodman, Isaiah Thomas, etc. So you're saying these guys are scrubs compared to the players of today? Lol 😂

But only one showed that he has any idea what he’s talking about.

Yeah there's a level of respect and camaraderie and the host isn't doing the Molly interrupt with a silly comment thing.

He praised Jokic..

Imagine if white folks took hoops seriously. Jokic just broke the legend of Wilt Chamberlain with his side hustle.

Why?

@@markovujanovic9676 cause Rodman is out of his mind and still has hate for the Celtics along with Bird.

@@EvangelismforGod Maybe its to early to compare this two, but both are unique generational players. If Nikola takes 2 or 3 more chips, then this debate is going to be legit. Thats my take...

Fundamentally yes - shoot, pass, rebound, post, defender. There are nuanced things he can't do like be 7 feet tall and 280 pounds. His size gives him some of that dominance.

Average NBA salary in 1985 was $300K which is like $850K today. Why exactly would a plumber play in the NBA? It’s ok you’re young and make things up on the internet, it’s what you do when you’re uneducated and have an ego because you need things to be the bestest ever just ever today or you’ll be sad. 😂 Anyway I love Jokic and he’s nowhere near Larry Bird for me, not yet and it’ll be tough to get close to Larry’s peak but who knows. Larry’s peak is comfortably top 5 and I hated that dude when I was a kid. But sometimes you stop being a clown and educate yourself and change your mind. 😜 Here’s a scattering of stars as you put it: Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, James Worthy, Isaiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Moses Malone, Dr J, Charles Barkley, Bobby Jones, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Sydney Moncrief, Bernard King, George Gervin, Alex English, Hakeem Olajuwon, Ralph Sampson, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Tom Chambers, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dennis Rodman, Mark Price and so on. You have the 🐐, Larry, Magic, Kareem, Dr J, Moses, all considered in the top 20 all-time by most. That’s 30% of the top 20 filled with guys who were at their or near their peaks in the 80’s. You casual asf ❤️🤡

@@jubjubhenry5612 I was gonna comment on this guy's idiotic disrespectful comment saying bird is only slightly better than jokic but after that beat down I don't think I need too 🤣🤣🤣. Well said some people just don't know what they're talking about

Bird created space by knowing how to play basketball. The point is to try and get open not get caught up in traffic