Destined Death & The Gloam-Eyed Queen 

But when you inherit the frenzied flame and burn the erdtree you go to farum azula too, so why would melina teleport one to farum azula when she already parted with you?

@@francisharkins thats a good point, especially since she states that she will only go after you when you become the lord of frenzied flame, which she later does

Could be something to do with the punishment of a cardinal sin

@@cwill14 wow that’s dope

@@cwill14 ZAMN

That's right, it's specified in the description of their armor, weapons, etc... + On Amon description

yea i think melina is burned n bodiless due to malikeths specific flame that drains hp n also lowers max life. im pretty sure all her followers loved her. im def startin to veer more towards melina = gloam eyed queen rather than shes her daughter.

@@teh0wnz0r76 Is Maliketh's "flame that drains hp and also lowers max life" not the power of Destined Death itself? The same power is in the Black Blades, which were empowered with stolen power from the Rune of Death aka Destined Death

@@impartialthrone2097 u tell me

@@impartialthrone2097 I think that flame is actually Destined Death itself since it's the same flame the Black Knife uses that also drains HP with its special attack. And those Black Knives were imbued with the Rune of Death taken by Ranni.

would also explain why so many bosses have voicelines that make it seem like they arent actually dead yet. maybe a lot have been defeated before and have just returned, because they werent defeated by death.

Yeah looking back knowing godrick was the weakest of all the demigods yet none have gone past him, really tells somethings up with melina and our character

@@ouroboros1809 not really, since we know about other badass warriors, they were doing their job at different times. Godfrey and Malenia's teacher, for example, were fighting gods, just like player did.

@@bragcertified Yes yes, back in the age where Destined Death wasn't yet bound by Maliketh and Godfrey was still fighting for Marika - when that was done and Destined Death was sealed away, the Golden Order was created (Not sure of Malenia's timeline think she was born into the GO - her teacher on the other hand could have been fighting alongside Godfrey) Since then though, in The Age of The Erdtree, proper death is only achieved by returning to the roots of the Erdtree. So... all the Tarnished (Godfrey's exiled army), they keep returning to fight, but none can defeat even Godrick? Something's fishy. The player seems to have more power than the others from the start. Unless of course it's just because it's a game and the player is the player.

@@rauminen4167 yeah, player is player, thus he's killing everybody. You're stronger then others because you're wielding power of runes, so you're becoming stronger with time. That's also why 1st boss beats you up. But to be fair elden ring is kinda weird when it comes to other elden lord candidates, because there's Vyke who was as close as possible to the title of elden lord, and yet someone like Godrick was alive, and Morgott who was protecting Erd tree too.

George R. R. Martin

@@robertcajucom3203 Hahahaha, that's great.

On any other game I would have brushed this theory as a coincidence but knowing that not only the minds of Dark Souls worked on the game's story but also the mind of George R. R. Martin makes it a very valid point of thought in the puzzle that is Elden Ring's story

@@robertcajucom3203 that actually makes sense where the names of them come from Godfrey (George) Renalla (r) Radagon (r) Marika (Martin)

Minor Caveat: All the demigods are named with their mother's letter, with the sole exception of Godwyn (and the rest of his lineage I assume) taking the G from Godfrey rather than an M from Marika. He's also one of the few demigods who--other than being killed and all--wasn't totes fucked up somehow. Godfrey and Marika: Godwyn, Morgott, Mohg Radagon and Rennala: Radahn, Rykard, Ranni Radagon and Marika: Malenia, Miquella (probably Melina though she may be more of an Athena-type 'sprung from my head' thing rather than a proper birth).

Also follows the duality motif that is everywhere in Elden Ring

And her blade of calling uses the same animation and technique as the black knife assassin’s knife blade of death skill. It seems like they borrowed not only her power but also her technique, and hers no longer has destined death because it was taken by Maliketh

She never uses black fire in any form though

@@RandomLord1992 yeah cause she would be a nerfed gloam eyed queen

@@burlapjack1464 that wouldn't make sense. Nerfed doesn't mean she wouldn't have any power at all. Why would she be the only Black Flame user to not have Black Flames?

Good observation buddy!

And, in front of Ranni's tower there is actually 3 wild wolves... o.o

Maybe Melina is her daughter?

@@GehrmansWheelchair melina says her mom is in the erd tree, and there’s only one lady in the erd tree

@@yourmother9747 Let me preface this by saying I am of the impression that her mother is in fact Marika, I’m just spitballing here. However, the statement she made was that her purpose was given to her by her mother, inside the Erd tree. That sentence could also mean the purpose that her mother gave her lies within the Erd tree, as opposed to her mother in the Erd tree that gave her a purpose.

@@GehrmansWheelchair I like this interpretation a lot - can anyone confirm if that grammar point of "my mother, inside the Erdtree" is the same in Japanese, or any other language?

@@yourmother9747 she said her mother had given her a purpose in the erd tree long ago, perhaps back when the gloam eyed queen was in control? That would make sense how she’s empyrean, and perhaps the gloam eyed queen put a little of herself in her daughter or gave her her eye before her demise? To continue her will

I’ve talked about all this in a separate video. Didn’t feel the need to add it all into another one.

Now what would be the connection between Ranni and Melina? Well, if Melina is in fact the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and does know where Maliketh was put after Destined Death, and Ranni somehow knew where Destined Death was, since she stole a fragment of it... Melina told Ranni so that she could enact her plot and indirectly continue Melina's purpose?

That's some interesting analysis because, in a metaphorical way, you're the day and she's the night. I mean, your head literally looks like the sun.

1)If this theory is true the black knife assassins techniques and moveset would have copied from Melina, as she likely created these techniques during her time as the dusked-eyed queen wielding destined death. 2) Ranni is her half sister, so having similar faces is logical

Or you know she might have wanted to steal back the rune of death. So she join forces with Ronnie and might have even helped her transfer to the doll.

You know Ronnie stole the rune fragment from beast boy not the dusk eyed queen

Yeah, your second point has been theorized by many. But it is somewhat strange to think that Ranni's closed eye, and how it connects with Melina's is just a weird coincidence.

The connection between Ranni and Melina has always felt forced. All the evidence I've seen and heard we're either assumptions based on their faces looking similar, their closed eyes are the opposite, and they both know Torrent. There's nothing in game connecting them other than a shared parent. 1 shared parent and it's the father

Yeah but it does say the monks were seduced by the black flame and were traitors

@@EvonyNinj The "followers" Im describing in my comment are the Godskin Apostles/Nobles. They are present at Farum Azula, where Maliketh is stationed. The Blackflame monks are not traitors to the gloam eyed queen. Rather, they are traitors to the Flame of Ruin, aka the Giants flame. They original served that flame, then they came to worship the Black Flame of the Gloam-Eyed Queen. I was basically saying that the Godskin Apostles/Nobles didn't betray their queen after she was defeated by Maliketh, and the reason why you see them so close to Maliketh in Farum Azula is because they're there to challenge him, not because they're allies.

@@EvonyNinj I'm reasonably certain they're traitors to the Fire Monks in that instance. After all they wear the white versions of the red gear of the Fire Monks.

@@IntuitionJo ohhh I see. I have only defeated the solo 1. I'll have to read up on them but I'm sure your correct.my bad

@@IntuitionJo good discussion tho =D

Here's hoping we get some lore on St. Trina too 😩

@@CadenceWren st. Trina is an alias for Miquella

@@remasterzoofrombo152 Yeah! I would just like to know a bit more about her. I thought their whole thing was interesting.

Same

I see a lot of people talking about wanting something like that. I don’t think it’ll happen because from usually doesn’t lock their dlcs behind optional endings but it would be interesting to see more of what the world could be like after that ending.

EH idk

I don't think it's a long shot tbh . I got every single ending and the frenzied ending seems even more fleshed out then the regular endings or any of the alt endings .

Fuck that I want to fight miquella

One thing to note too is that in cut content, when Enia is describing the Edtree burning, she originally says that the Erdtree is engulfed in BLACK FLAMES. Implying that the Giant's Flame was originally intended to be the black flame itself.

once she was burned, her body "died". As GEQ she worshipped destined death and in the lands of Shadow people "meet death in messmers flame". Could it be that Melina's lost body, IS Messmer?

@@lexnotlaw it could.

Also didnt Loki technically fucked himself? Hnmmmmmm

What's the thought process behind rani + Melina = hel I don't get it, other then that I like the idea

One is a soul in a dead puppet (her body is also dead) and has an affinity for cold sorceries, the other is alive and has an affinity for warm incantations. The opposite closed eyes (and other things) make it look like they sort of fit together, and the Gloam Eyed queen is a pretty good approximation to an underworld goddess. Also, Loki's three children were a big snake (Rykard) a half-dead girl (Ranni/melina) and a big wolf that devoured everything (Radhan is described as devouring all his warriors like a dog). I'm not saying it's exact, but this game is based on Norse mythology, so it's probably the best lens to look at it through.

@@qwertyuiop42385 how do you get Rani + Melina = Hel?

@@justhaku9240 are you asking for like a math proof? I thought I explained it decently well...

Seems like the kind of thing that would be kept hush-hush by Marika. the Gloam-Eyed Queen would be like, ancient history at this point. The game doesn't do a good job of conveying how much time has passed, but it's been at least a century since the Shattering, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated long before that, as Maliketh was established as being feared by all the Demigods, and who knows how long the age of the Demigods lasted. So considering how early in the timeline she was defeated, plenty of time for everyone to forget she ever existed, especially if her siblings were complicit in the cover-up

Shabiri is killed in the FF ending

@@kingvicious8332 did you miss an entire lore about Shabriri? He’s immortal demon of lies. Him just dropping meatsuit doesn’t mean he’s gone.

Shabriri found a new body to live, Yura. He only wants to help us to burn the Erdtree, that's why he helps us against Godfrey. When we faint is because the Frenzied Flame is adapting to our body, to make us the Lord of Frenzied Flame, we have control of the body but we act listening to the frenzied flame

marika became a god because she fused with radagon not cause she had god parents marika and radagon ascended to godhood by fusing together

@@johnrobert6794 marika was already queen before fusing with Radagon as per melinas dialogue quoting marika at one of the churches

but to be an empyrean one has to be born from a single god and be chosen by the fingers

@@aurora_chart they don't have to be born from a single god, Ranni is the daughter of Rennala and Radagon, and she was chosen as a canidate.

@@aurora_chart yeah what Hamza said...I don't recall at any point in the game where it says empyreans are born of one single God... only that they're chosen by the two fingers. For some reason people started overriding the explicit dialogue in game with the word's actual ol latin definition or something

I still think the two are 2 halves of a single individual.

Vargram was a tarnished, which means he was alive when Marika cast out Godfrey. So he was likely born after Destined Death was already sealed away. Seeing as how it says he "aspired" to such a state, aka he wished to emulate it, get closer to that role, I'd say it's more likely that he knew of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and was essentially larping like he was her Shadow

It might me an outdated conent, but in Malenia's and Godskins theme there is a mention that Mikuel is St. Trisha who is the Gloam Eyed Queen.

Well destined death and age of stars endings seem more complete as they finish the main plot twist of Empyreans rising against The Greater Will and thus I believe either is canon, but frenzied flame ending definitely gives more options for DLCs

It's more likely they're some sort of twins with melina either being the gloam eyed queen or her daughter adopted by marika. The outer god ranni chose(that of the moon) and the outer god of death are different but incredibly similar in nature, near twin gods if you will, and empyreans physical appearances are affected by their gods, so it would make sense if twin god's or at least incredibly similar gods' empyreans would look identical

I thought Gurranq is just Maliketh but disguised

There were definitely other gods, in some item descriptions it mentions marika slaying the God of the fire giants

@@robertkessler2574 that's true, but those typically relate to other outer gods, while the gloam-eyed queen is aligned with the greater will.

@@michaelwilliams8242 She's an Empyrean. People are made Empyreans by the Two Fingers. Which Outer God was she an Empyrean to? Marika is to the Greater Will, Malenia to the Rot God, albeit against her will, Mohg is attempting to connect Miquella to the Formless Mother, and there happens to be an Outer God whose envoy, the Twinbird, gave birth to the *Deathbirds*. Hmmm an Outer God with an association with Death, and an Empyrean who wields the power of Destined Death?

@@impartialthrone2097 two fingers=greater will, not just any outer God

@@michaelwilliams8242 then how was an Outer God of Rot able to influence Malenia, an Empyrean?

I don't think we know if Empyreans are people chosen by the Greater Will, or if the Greater Will only picks Empyreans

@@arkaye597 The Greater Will turned Marika into an empyrean because she was originally a numen.

@@SingingInferno 2 fingers only chose Numen because they were outsiders to lands between, therefore impartial to people living there. Marika was not born to god parents, she just won the lottery.

@@ScarletEdge I know, I was just clarifying that Marika was made an empyrean, not born as one.

@@SingingInferno Sure thing. I don't have problem with that.

I always thought it was Varre who killed your maiden. He basically gives you a sales pitch because he KNOWS you're maiden-less (you don't even tell him, it's his opening lines) when you first run out, to follow the grace and kill Godrick, whom he hates. He knows you'll get the roundtable invite. Then later, if you do his quest, he trash talks the round table and two fingers, and leads you to soaking a rag in a maidens blood (which he says peeps usually kill their own maiden) for initiation to join Mohg's crew. The easy way to do it is to go back to your dead maiden through the portal at the four belfries. There's also the church of inhibition, however, the natural flow of the game doesn't lead you there till way later as you have to go up the side near the lift to get up there. He's basically against the fingers and trying to backhandedly recruit.

You can also get the Maiden blood from the dead Maiden at the Church of Inhibition next to the Frenzied Flame Village. Also, Marika wants to end the Golden Order as much as Ranni. That's why she, *ahem*, shatters the Elden Ring. It's Radagon that tried to repair it. Also, Melina concludes that her purpose is to burn the Erdtree, which only helps Marika's plan along, as burning the Erdtree would be just another part of thwarting the Greater Will, which she no longer believes in. Also, that WW2 analogy felt forced to be honest.

Level strength and endurance, your equip load is too high and you have no stam + no strength. Maybe you will even get some maidens this way.

The dragon is Fia. Fia is Fortisaxx. Fortissax became human to found the dragon cult. Shes been keeping Godwyn alive for a long long time via the deathbed companions. Ranni needs to kill Godwyn because he was destined to die first. She cant die until his soul passes on. Plus he should have died a long time ago, and Ranni used to be a part of the rune of death. Its personal and professional.

@@darkhobo That was Lansseax, Fortisax’s sister, that became human to found the dragon cult. You fight Lansseax in Altus Plateau.

@@aanesijr yes. They were best friends. But one of them became human and Lansenaxx is still a dragon. So it must have been Fortisaxx that became Fia the deathbed companion. Also Vyke is probably Elden Rings version of Ornstein.

@@darkhobo Woah woah woah, Lansseax is explicitly stated to be the one that takes human form, running the Dragon Cult. Fortissax is corrupted within Godwyn, fighting the death inside him. These things are explicitly stated in item descriptions. What isn't is stated explicitly anywhere is Fortissax being female and turning into Fia. Please try not to state your personal interpretation as fact when there's no explicit evidence of it.

@@impartialthrone2097 its ambiguous in classic Fromsoft fashion. I think they founded it together. From Lansseax's glaive - "Lansseax was the sister of Fortissax. It is said she took the form of a human to commune with the knights as a priestess of the ancient dragon cult" It doesn't state which sister but Lightning Spear incantation states "long ago, Godwyn the Golden defeated the ancient dragon Fortissax - an event that gave rise to the ancient dragon cult in the capital" We know Lansseax was in love with a Tarnished Lord Contender from Vykes Dragonbolt. "Of all the knights, Vyke the Dragonspear was the one Lansseax loved the most" Not super important, but showing inter-species relations and Lansseax being "accounted for" so to speak. (Also Vyke is the "Ornstein" of Elden Ring and I love him) Now onto Fia. First off, she is undead. She tells us this. And Fortissax is inside of her. Here is Fortissax's remembrance. - "After Godwyn the Golden became the Prince of Death, the ancient dragon fought long and hard agaisnt the Death within its companion. Alas, victory was never achieved and its only reward was corruption" So Fortissax fought the death inside Godwyn. Here is Fia's description of what the Deathbed Companions do. - "I was known as a Deathbed Companion, where I come from. Afer I recieved the warmth and lifely vigour from a number of champions, I lay with the remains of an exalted noble, to grant him another chance at life. To do so is the purpose of me being." So Fia drains life from dieing people and gives it to an "exalted noble" The only conclusion to draw is Fia is Fortissax and the Exalted noble is Godwyn. There was also a description that said those who founded the dragon cult were exiled, and I was going to X-reference that to Fia's gear all saying she was exiled. But I cant find it anymore. I think I have more than enough evidence that Fia is Fortissax in human form without it. So I'm doing only a tiny tiny amount of speculation. Plus its Fromsoft, and GRRM. You have to speculate a little to get anywhere. They even gave us a Tinfoil hat in game. eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nox+Mirrorhelm

I dont think so, there is a description saying that Empyreans are born of 1 only god. Then they throwed Ranni as a mystery for us to solve xD Numen literally mean God in some old language. Greek i think.

i think thats kinda a stretch but still a really cool theory

Talk about stretches

While the links to Hindu mythology are really interesting. I think the gloam eyed queen is probably just one of the characters alone. Most likely Melina. Though she does seem to align with Ranni's goals a lot, and dusk is close to night (their respective symbolism).

that bossfight was not cut content. it was simply zullie setting melina as the boss of that dungeon and fighting it. Melina has the black knife assasin moveset if you summon them for the morgott fight as well, by the way. So it is observable in-game.

I think youre close. So death should be a Great Rune right? Why isnt it a circle? Well because death isnt a thing without life. You remove death from life. So the gloam eyed queen is a godess of life, death, and rebirth. Marika breaks off Death, leaving Life and Rebirth. Rebirth is put in the egg and given to Rennala as you say. Melina is the Gloam eyed Queen. I imagine back then they called her the Dawn Eyed. And if I put on my Nox Mirror Helmet I could speculate the Rune of Life is literally the Golden Torc whistle you have been using all game to summon torrent and carry around Melina. And the Darkmoon Rune is the Darkmoon ring you place on Ranni's dolls finger that subsequently revives her.

To become an empyrean, you have to be born of a god/goddess (So Marika or Radagon), and then chosen by the greater will to be a replacement to Marika as wielder if the elden ring, fit to take a consort, their elden lord. That's what a lot, if not every main piece of info from item descriptions and the main wiki for the game, gas said we're the requirements, so it's cool to see this take and spin on it.

Lots of people felt the same way about Londor in DS3 but we never actually got to see where the pilgrims were coming from.

@@parastroika2393 the Demon Prince was mentioned in one description of a sword (Lorian's Greatsword) and nowhere else, and then we got to see him in the dlc. The similarity with the Gloam Eyed Queen are not lost on me.