Devil May Cry - Style Switching Was Never Bad 

Thank you for all of the support everyone. I want to reevaluate my points on the weapon wheel segment. I feel I was too harsh and dismissive in regards to the mechanic so expect a separate short video where I go over it again.

For those of you unaware: Dante in DMC5 has around 150 completely separate moves that ALL can be accessed at any moment thanks to the his Style Switching and weapon switching mechanic.

I never knew this was even an issue, I was under the impression that the whole point of style switching was to give you all the tools you need at any moment. It's way too fun and unique of a mechanic and shouldn't be removed. That being said, you brought up a good point with dmc4 that I never noticed before where most of your key moves are on the style button.

New people yell the loudest, like you said, most people hop into these games thinking that should be able to pull off donguri combos without any prior training, it can take years of playthroughs in order to even get a feel with certain characters, especially Dante, due to his insane kit which is even further expanded in 5. Once you get good at style switching mid combo, you still have to option select what you'd want to do next.

As a relatively new DMC player, I never would've thought that people would find a way to criticize style switching. I remember how insane it felt to play DMC4 Dante and realize I can use any style at any time, that blew my mind

Style-switching just might be my favorite gameplay mechanic in any game ever. I'm a huge fan of customization in video games. That's why I loved styles when Dante was able to customize his playstyle back in DMC3, but part of me has always wanted the ability to freely switch between them at any time. I skipped DMC4 as I only had a PC and PS2 at the time, so it wasn't until DMC5 that I was able to experience style-switching. Man, did it not disappoint. What I love about it the most is the amount of gameplay variety that it offers on-the-fly. Most games with a customization aspect require tedious menu navigation before you can change your playstyle. Style-switching allows one to play to their strengths and overcome weaknesses without breaking the flow of the game. The individual styles already offer great utility on their own, but being able to switch between them at any time increases that potential exponentially. It makes Dante extremely powerful and versatile without resorting to simple stat boosts. Combine that with an arsenal of destruction, and you've got the most overpowered Swiss Army knife ever.

I never would’ve thought this was such a talking point till now. I always saw switching as it’s own art form with how a lot of players use it. And having tried a lot of stuff myself, it’s a lot of fun~

This video blew me away. It’s all factual. I want to say I was one of those people that never knew anything about the mechanics of DMC & how complex it is. Chasertech educated me when I tried arguing a point that had no weight to it. He is one of many amazing combo artists out there that can teach you so much.

I feel like the combo mad videos made by the community over the years has given a good chunk of series newcomers an unrealistic expectation of these games. These games have a lot of systems to master and if you're gonna become a master, you have to put in the time to figure out how these games click. Just jumping in expecting to get those insane triple S combos all the time is just setting yourself up for failure, just progressing at your own pace is all that should really be needed. Style switching is just another system that needs to be taken into account for 4, 5, and the switch port of 3

It's weird how accessibility and optimization is a hot topic for the DMC community given how open-ended the base game asks its player base to be. On top of what the game deems as successfully understanding the mechanics, like how orb count plays a role in how well you rank or how different enemies can weigh and thus be juggled. I never knew this was such a big issue.

Had no idea this was a topic even up for debate in the fanbase. The amount of variables you have through style switching and all of the different devil arms is what makes Dante in 4, 5, and modded 3 such an engaging character to control and mess around with. Reaching mastery or even basic competence of that depth is really satisfying. Why would anyone wanna do away with it?

I suck at DMC combos, but it feels good to learn even one combo that resembles a pro move. People just like to be rewarded without any hard work.

anyone who asks for dante to have all his moves available without style switching simply isn't grasping the sheer overwhelming amout of inputs dante has, clear and cut

Fantastic video chaser love to see this kind of content for dmc

Personally, I find switching weapons (or styles) as central mechanics to games really cool cause of the rhythm element they introduce to a game. At least that’s how I view their implementation. Somewhat related to DMC, DOOM ETERNAL and ULTRAKILL reward you for switching weapons often, with the former even requiring you to do so. I can see how „being forced“ to switch could be unsatisfactory to some, but personally I feel it adds another layer of depth to a game that gets you into a flow state quicker.

As a relatively new DMC fan, as in, just played DMC5 for the first time this month. Dante's style switching is fucken sick, I wish more games would do it. You could only so so much moves with a single attack button, adding another + the directional pad is a smart move.

It takes a hell of a long time to get used to, but once you do, you'll be styling without trying. And that's.. Kind of the point. These games aren't meant to be easily accessible to newcomers. It's meant to be difficult to learn. That's why pulling off sick combos feels so rewarding. Because it feels like you've earned it through learning the combat. That's why it's one of my favourite games.

DMC is incredible because of the freedom and flexibility of the characters. I couldn't possibly imagine thinking to myself that the game should have LESS options. If you want an action game with a limited moveset there are plenty of games out there.

Massive clickbait, I didn't see Todd Howard once in this video

To me style switching is what makes Dante so fun and yes even if he didn’t have style switching he would still be fun but it adds so many different ways to play Dante and you feel so free while you are playing as him and me being a console player I hope that they add breaker switching to Nero into the next DMC game if it ever happens because he gets so repetitive at points

I honestly don't get it when people say that DMC doesn't have a dedicated dodge button when jumping has invincibility frames, and you can jump as often as you like whenever you like.

That was highly informative. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!

Saw you talking about this over Twitter. So glad you spoke up over it

My only problem with style switching is the under-utilisation of it. Imagine a weapon who's properties changed when you switched styles. Like a sword that turns into a great sword when you use Royalguard and has attacks that use the gauge, and turns into a dagger when you use trickster, letting you perform speedy attacks to combo with the style's trick action, or turns into a spear with gunslinger, giving you longer ranged stabs. The summon swords in 5 are my favorite addition simply because of their properties change with your selected style, giving the style keys more use than just changing what your trick action does.

I've been a massive fan of DMC series since 1 on PS2. I never heard of these style complaints lmao. Silly Billy, they just need some motivation to learn there's nothing wrong with being stylish 😎

I'm new to the dmc series and I really enjoy style switching in 5, it's so unbelievably fun and even though I'm not that good, learning style switching to a certain degree made Dante my favorite character to play as especially when I'm in the flow zone

Seriously bro, these vids have been great. Keep on doin' what you're doin'. And the YT shorts have been great, as well. Looking farward to your possible next video taking about the weapons of DMC and possibly other action games. It could be 10 minutes long, or and hour and a half, I'd still watch it. Haha

Incredible video Chaser!

Great video. I think the barrier to entry got lowered significantly in DMC5 (e.g. with Dante's Air Taunt) , which is honestly a great thing. However in DMC4 it is completely understandable for a first time player to find so many tools of Dante locked behind styles to be extremely jarring. I did too! I think they streamlined the weapons too much in the transition from 3 to 4, like you said, because they wanted to incentivise people to actual switch styles and not stick with just one they like, as many players did in DMC3 back then. That however isn't a fault of the system, but of its implementation as you already stated.

This video was a treat and I agree 100%. The problem is not style switching but the idea that you need to actively switch styles. This was a perception that was somewhat reinforced by DMC4, but couldn't be less the case with DMC5. There's no situation in DMC5 where you're going to be required to be in one style, just some in which one style is going to be better or worse, and you'll have to adjust if you want to use it. That last part isn't an afterthought though, it's the whole point of styles. They're extra abilities that let you play in a specific way you enjoy; ergo "styles." That's why they don't have their own separate button and why no character besides Dante has them. People get confused because they're very unique functionally, but when you look at things more deeply, that's not so much the case. Neither the styles nor the weapons are designed randomly and they all consider what all of them can do so that you'll never be truly out of options with any given loadout. Combining styles in quick and complex ways is a result of a player's prowess with Dante, but that doesn't mean it's the intended way to play the character. No two people play Dante (or any DMC character for that matter) in the same way, though we all abide by the same rules; and that's why we like this series, that's why even seeing inexperienced players can be engaging. Given that, it only follows that one could refuse to switch styles, or weapons, or only switch to certain things, and still be proficient with the character. And indeed playing that way may be more challenging or more interesting given the situation. Lastly, I want to say that no control scheme or game is "perfect." Like any other human creation, they make concessions that are inherent to what they're trying to achieve. Sure, it'd be nice if I could swing a hammer with my mind, but I would likely need more effort to set that up than to just use my arm, so for the time being, hammers are going to keep having handles. If I occasionally hit my finger while trying to nail something, that won't mean hammers are poorly designed. Similarly, style switching works well given the game that it's in and what it's meant to do. Looking at things in a vacuum, there might be a control scheme that could allow you to do some things with less inputs, but it's hard to call it better simply because it would result in a completely different Dante. And if you don't believe me, you should try checking out this one guy called Nero.

I know exactly what video you were talking about when sampling one of the proposed alternative layouts. I'm so glad you brought it up and brought up the same complaints that I had with it. Great video

as someone who started with 5 i legit fell in love with dantes gameplay. i adore how nice it feels and i did some pretty slick combos for a beginner. i consider dantes moveset as one of my favorite gameplays in videogames just because of how fun it is

Hey guys? If y'all are having trouble staying airborne, E&I have always been amazing tools for remaining skybound. Rainstorm in DMC 5 and, to some extent, 4, is our mightiest successor to Air Raid. I know 4 has the flying missile battery on Pandora, but f*ck the flying missile battery. Also, Cerberus' Aerial spin attack (lock on forward attack) is the stairway to heaven. Easiest JC in the series. Balrogs aerial punch is also easy to JC and makes you look like a dbz character. You can even bounce between punches and kicks for increased style here

Count me as one of several people who didn't even know this was a controversy. After DMC3, I was happy that Dante had access to all of his styles and, though difficult to learn, thought nothing of it otherwise. I didn't know there were people actually complaining about this, though perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

Great video man! Your arguments were solid and completely valid.

the thing about switching to dpad and joystick to access moves : outside of movement and inputting command moves, you don't use the joystick very much. let me give an example. your ground combo for melee weapons is mash the attack button or the sword masteer button. the entire time you're mashing/holding/delaying the attack button you can't do any movement, meaning you aren't using the joystick. this opens your thumb to A) use the joystick to input a command move (back-forward or 360) or B) hit a style switch. in the case where you DID use your left thumb to input the command move, you generally have no left thumb options to go into directly after. you can't do hightime into stinger, you can't do stinger into hightime, you can't do stinger into normal combo. you need SOMETHING in between to link those moves together. it might be guns, it might be jump, you might be put into an aerial combo situation in which case you get access to jump cancel to give you your link. all that to say, your left thumb is completely fucking free to swap styles, just stop gripping your controller like you're trying to squeeze style points out of a sponge. for those saying you don't have immediate access to style moves when you have to style swap, you've literally not touched styles have you? let's say you're in swordmaster and you want to royalguard something, how would you go about blocking that thing? if you chose stop what you're doing, swap to RG and then wait for the attack to come at you, how about we squish those commands together and cut out the waiting : hit RG style and the style button at the SAME time. i know, insane concept here, hitting two buttons at the same time instead of one after the other. so pray tell, where in between mashing attack and hitting style PLUS style-button did we not have access to royal guard? what about trickster? we want to trick up out of gunslinger. jesus christ did you just hit d-pad up while shooting then forward + style at the SAME time. isn't that fucking illegal or something? what about prop shredder? i'm stuck in royal guard! oh my god he's hitting left on the dpad and style while not moving the joystick. what if i want to royal release out of swordmaster : let's use the buffer system and hit back-forward > move our thumb all the way an inch to the left > hit d-pad down + style. oh my god royal release came out and half of the shit we did with our left thumb we did in swordmaster how could this even be possible my mind is expanding at a rate in which my health is in danger. in short, it's a skill issue. if you're constantly attacking, then you aren't using your left thumb for much movement, in fact your default movement in combat should be d-pad up > up+style or d-pad up+style, since if you are using your legs to move around you're not in a situation where you need to style switch. if you want to complain about something, it's how the joystick for camera is on the same side as attacking. it's an important skill to put enemies you aren't hitting off screen by rotation the camera so they don't attack you (also accomplished by going up into the air). (secretly a reason M+KBD is the best control scheme) how about complaining about how swapping through weapons requires memorizing the order you yourself put the weapons in and mashing through that order with your gun/sword swap buttons (it's annoying but how about you start slow and use 2 weapons, and build up to 3 then 4).

As a new player to the series, Style Switching is amazing imo, I didn't use it that much in dmc 3-4, but now that I'm going for all the achievements in DMC5 I've come to use style Switching quite a lot and I love it, it's dynamic and let you do more moves.

This video fucking said everything I've also ever wanted to say, and the way you articulate all the comparisions and seeing the footage actually together weaves such a strong argument. Personally I do feel if some people really benefitted from no Dpad use they can use custom setup not only on Steam but in later PS5 and Xbox One consoles now. Hope this great video just a first in the way to come!

Absolutely SSS video. I am glad that DMC 5 Dante feels like the best of 3 and 4. The game gives you the option to play however you'd like. On my first playthrough, I played it like DMC 3 to learn the systems and weapons. The next playthrough went more like DMC4, with me using everything at my disposal. Once again, great video.

My first ever DMC game was 5, so I do suppose that I have my biases when it comes to style switching. But now that I've played through all of them (minus 2), I still don't see why people disliked the system so much. It gives room for more flexible, streamlined moves that's hard to pull off, but extremely satisfying once you mastered it. I swear, man, people will somehow always find something to complain about

Thank you! This voices all of my grievances with this argument.

Glad you made this video man.

Dude, your videos are so amazing, the way that you talk about this is like doing Dante combos in high or mid levels but always SsStylish!!!

How fascinating I always thought that the style switching was always amazing to do when 5 came out it just makes it even better

ignoring the fact that removing style switching would mean you’d literally need extra combo inputs to do the simplest thing on the planet…. its extremely efficient, and even tho i dont grind dmc and just play it casually id rather have style switching then needing to go into an inventory or go into a different screen, or need to use combo inputs like its a fighting game just to pull of a simple action in game

The problem with styles in DMC3 is that only one style has a tool as basic and essential as 'the dodge move'. Experimenting with different styles was absolutely terrible because of it; the thing you have to give up is so baseline essential for gameplay, especially if you're doing something like, say, learning a new gameplay style. It's actually a big reason I liked DMC3 the least out of all the PS2 DMCs; it felt like it was actively depriving me of potential fun by giving me tools that I can't use without taking away something I need to even have a chance of surviving. Style switching fixes that problem as much as it reasonably could while making sure the moveset isn't overly complex. I'm fine with it.

Your argument was spot on. What you said complies with my thoughts. Also given examples are all true and I have experienced them.

3:43 this. This is the main thing about the DMC Games. People have an idea that the DMC games have a very steep learning curve and that getting to a "good" level takes years and years of effort. I can't speak for everybody, but it was certainly the case for me. DMC meant being very fast and smooth with your actions and buttons. It's kinda like Instagram fitness posts; it's not the majority of people, but if that's all you see, you feel like that's the general baseline. Either way, I started playing with the reboot, because it had simpler controls. I played that game, had a great time, and wanted some more DMC in my life. I took the plunge with DMC3, and after some time with the mainline games (DMC3 and DMC4), I understand that everybody doesn't _have_ to be an absolute combo demon. Everybody doesn't have to be a Jump Cancel master. It's just like any other game; if you're not a casual player, it's sufficient to have a good grip on your weapons and styles and being efficient with your tools. That is quite enough

Ok I will completely agree that style switching and how they did the style switching is perfect, now for holding down buttons for styles I will admit I play d5nte with most of my styles on the triggers, like u said everyone is different I guess I just don't like having to switch styles with the d pad, in DmC I switch weapons with the d pad so it became second nature in dmc5 for dante, love the different outlooks and topics in this video, a really good way to give people knowledge and a lil insight to what controller set ups and options that r out there much love brotha 💙 LONG LIVE STYLE SWITCHING 😉

i like style switching but one thing that felt pretty bad was how nerfed a lot of the style moves were in DMC4 to accomodate for it, it felt bad for casuals

Dmc 5 is my first dmc game I'm on my 3rd playthrough rn and I find style switching really fun even if I can't do all the cool stuff I see online. coming up with new stuff on my own with different weapons and changing styles mid combo really satisfying

The two main problems of style switching imo fall into these 2 categories 1) How accessible is it for new players? 2) How are they balanced in terms of between each other and against enemies? So for that first question, I think DMC3 with style switching mod shows how the games should be balanced for Dante's styles. Where each style can be used by itself to 100% beat the game, you aren't even forced to swap styles and no enemy or boss in the game is biased against certain styles. Every part of the game was designed in that way, so when you add style switching on top of that, you don't feel like you're nerfing yourself, you just open up a huge amount of gameplay possibilities. DMC4 however, target nerfed all the styles to compensate for style switching being implemented. What this resulted in is a FORCED style switching for players, which makes the game not nearly as accessible to new players. New players should be allowed to stick to 1 style to effectively play the character, and then as they play and get used to it, expand their repertoire with new styles. The DEFAULT balance position should be 1 style, that prevents this problem. Then for the second question, you can't let a certain style become more or less powerful than the others. Every style should be equally balanced when compared to each other with equal pros and cons. Royal guard has immense damage, power, and survivability with the trade off of requiring precise timing and close range. Gunslinger has long range moves with multiple enemy target abilities and charging guns and such with the trade off of doing lower damage to melee attacks. Swordmaster is the same just with vice versa power, more powerful melee with less powerful guns. Trickster keeps you at a basic moveset but allows you a lot of mobility and safe dodging. Each has pluses and negatives but none of them should be specifically better or worse than each other. This allows players to pick a style they like, focus on learning that style, and not feel like they're "nerfing" themselves because they chose a specific one. The balance of this is very hard to do, but I think they did a fantastic job with it in DMC5 tbh. Every style feels great, they all fit their purpose, and none of them feel like a clear cut winner or loser. DMC4 however definitely showed this imbalance. Royal guard and Gunslinger were 100% less powerful than Swordmaster and Trickster. Royal guard felt unfinished with dreadnaught and chip damage on normal blocks and taking forever to charge the royal meter, and gunslinger moves either just did no damage or were very niche examples like Pandora's missile battery.

loved the video.

This analysis was absolutely incredible. Brilliantly executed. The part where you detail how heavily other games rely on the D-pad was something I hadn't put enough thought into. I haven't changed my mind about Style Switching, but now I can definitely approach the subject with a more open mind. After all, if you're not willing to try and disprove your own position, your argument is worthless. And that's actually the thing that impressed me about this video the most: You don't have a problem with seeing things from someone else's perspective. That's the kinda attitude that makes me say, "Hey. Pay attention to this guy. He's got something to say." This video is Smokin' Sexy Style. All day. 🔥🔥🔥

Did not think you would ever come back to talking about DMC related topics. Hell, I did not even know the community had issues and bad takes with style switching. Tbf, I "left" the community years back because all I found was the same 2 crappy memes, pointless drama from casual reddit players, or from "pros" getting into piss spats over who truly is skilled and godlike. But, on the topic of the video, it was very interesting to hear and even see what some people tried to do differently. Even though their intentions were misguided, made it worse, or simply wrong. Your explanation, and your own beliefs on what issues are actually there, for commands and inputs come off solid and reasonable enough to believe. Good shit, Chaser.

perfect mechanic for a perfect franchise, i love you DMC

Good video bro! I'm really glad you talk about this. Though I understand the frustration the new player has with the control scheme and combat design that it might be too hard,I sometimes wished the developer would lower the complexity down for a bit because I recently played a game that made me feel like I was playing DMC and it was Assault Spy. I think the control was simple to grasp and that it was possible to pull off some combos similar to DMC but easier (with some elements similar to Bayonetta and MGR, but more like DMC with some moves that look identical). If you don't count some glitches and minor issues such as lock-on and trick up-down mechanics or even the vast amounts of input because of the lack of weapons, I believe it is still the game with good control and combat design that I wish Capcom could implement. But, in the end, it was just a choice for the player, and I don't see the issue with switching styles. You can play the game without changing your style and doing the claw at all, and I practiced it until I could do it freely, but the only disadvantage I see is that I have to do the claw grip and injure my own wrist because my thumb wasn't fast enough for guard fly, sky run, or even inertia rave lol.

I always think how people fall into the trap of how style switching is bad (even I thought reboot's more streamlined controls were better) because its complicated at face value but never realized that this is pretty much the most streamlined controls AND it gives the most options, all it takes is just some time to learn it and all it took me was playing Dante for around a week and I was already comfortable switching between his styles on the fly, and just like you said in 4 its like a trial by fire as players are handed all of his styles instantly and those inexperienced with DMCs combat will lack the flow necessary for seamless switching and out of that frustration they blame the game (not everyone but I definitely got frustrated with it) In the end, style switching is pretty much like learning anything in DMC, and that is Patience and Practice makes perfect

Banger video

Regarding the topic of weapon wheel, I would not be against its implementation in the game ONLY IF it was something optional that you can turn on and off in the options menu. I feel that for newcomers of the series and players with disabilities who might find going through the entirety of Dante's arsenal just to select a single weapon it might seem as a hindrance and a detriment, but as far as advanced players are concerned, it is the most consistent way to play the game at the pace with usually engage with. So, I believe there's an argument for it being there, but NOT at the cost of being a feature you have to put up with and drag the pro players down. Someone also mentioned the option of assigning/customizing different inputs to the skills you have, which I think could be a nice addition and wouldn't affect the way in how top players play. Any thoughts on that?

Fire video :D

Dmc 5 was my first entry to this series and when i got to play around as dante i admit i was a bit overwhelmed with style switching and sticked to either swordmastwr or gunslinger but after a few practice and unlocking all the styles can do i personally say that it's a awesome fun mechanic i still struggle and have a huge lag on my response time especially after switching but i still gotta admit that it was super fun messing around with it

Me, a passerby who has only played ever played DMC4, casually, unaware this was a point contention: Alright, you've convinced me.

I didn't knew that Style Switch mechanic was this kind of topic in community, I know it's hard to get used to changing styles while playing, and that people would prefer to only stay in one until they get used to, but saying "bad design" I think it's going far

Good work on this one. Style switching was always fun for me.

Very well presented argument. I agree, style switching presents the largest amount of possible inputs and gives more options for rebinding than button modifiers would allow. At the time I was a PC keyboard only player, style switching in DMC4 didn´t make sense to me at all, as I had all these rebindable keys available, why am I supposed to use 4 keys to change the function of a 5th key when it would make more sense to use the 4 keys for the 4 functions (and the 5th key for Yamato). But I guess capcom wanted a consistent control scheme across all platforms, so it makes sense to optimize for the most common denominator, i.e. controller. Great job pointing out how the weapons in DMC5 are designed closer to the DMC3 ones, so they offer a decent moveset without style actions and also work well along the style switching system. Maybe in the future, when controllers with buttons on the back become standard, we may see a different system, but for the time being, this seems to be the best we have.

I thought for sure when you said if you wanted something with a dedicated dodge button was to go play DMC2 lol. Anyway great video that also summarized why I didn't like DMC4 Dante's combat as much, because it was that same annoying feeling when Cerberus/Nevan didn't have Air Hike in DMC3. Universal tools and moves in DMC5 was absolutely the best fix, and now it was all a matter of getting good and use to free form combat in DMC5

great video, i must say, i love playing Dante in DMC5 the most cause he has so many weapons available, and it is easier to play him and come up with combos than dmc4(much easier to stay in the air), in my opinion. in dmc4 im not a huge fan of his weapons. but also something to note, the Switch version of DMC3 has freestyle mode where you do have style switching and the ability to use every single weapon Dante obtains just like dmc5, and you can even bring up a weapon wheel! glad to see DMC content still being created.

Good video

I think both style choosing and style switch are really cool actually. On DMC3 you can't choose your style anywhere but it's fun to test which style fits best for each part of a stage, specially in DMD, while style switching let's you go insane with combos

Exellent video. I feel as though a weapon wheel was an inevitable addition to the series. A lot of, if not most people, find selecting a weapon through a wheel more comfortable than rapidly cycling through weapons with a button. I've seen the lack of a weapon wheal being complained about as early as DMC4. To be honest, I'd say having a weapon wheel is perfectly fine in concept. Seems like a lot of people were turned off of the idea after playing DMC3 Switch, and understandably so, but the issue there was the implimentation and not the mechanic itself. DMC3's version of the weapon wheel was really jank, but it can be improved upon in pretty obvious ways. Either way, I'd say it's worth iterating on just so everyone can feel comfortable with the game.

Dante’s style switching in dmc 5 is the best ever. Idk how or why people get upset that they need to get upset about using the dpad to switch styles. Especially if there is an option to change settings. People could complain about style switching, but being able to style switch on the fly in combos is one of the coolest feelings to ever have and to end with a sin devil trigger finale. Pure awesome gameplay.

love the video

Style switch on the pad is the most convenient at the end of the day for me. I'll customize all the attack and shoot buttons to the triggers and away from the face buttons though. Ever since playing dark souls/Bloodborne attacking with shoulder buttons just seems a lot more comfortable and easier imo

I'm kinda shocked that people ever actually thought it was bad, lol. It's such a fun and unique mechanic. I get that it can be overwhelming at first, but with enough practice, you can do a lot of cool shit!

I personally feel like every style should *enhance* a type of gameplay, rather than forcing you to use a style if you want access to a meaningful moveset. Dmc5 does this well, because all the swordmaster moves feel supplemental rather than necessary. Gunslinger is the same to a lesser extent.

This was really interesting! I gotta say though: anyone who suggests that some specific grip is _required_ to play Dante is full of it. Sure, you _do_ need to employ that next-level stuff to be competitive in over-the-top combo videos, but with enough dedication, _anyone_ can beat any DMD mode/etc as Dante with a normal grip. _Nothing_ in any of the games is so unforgiving that players don't have time to lift their thumb off the stick for a second to switch back to Trickster. Are weird grips necessary to be competitive at the highest level? Yes. However, that level of play simply isn't necessary to S-rank the game, and it isn't representative of the vast majority of DMC players. Most of us aren't even playing the game game as the really-godlike players. Just look at DMC4 inertia; it's one of the most critical mechanics to hardcore players, yet 99% of casuals will complete the game without ever even noticing it exists.

It's usually unskilled players who complain about style switching. People who understand the game's mechanics know that style switching is basically irreplaceable, unless you create a controller with 50 buttons that's easy to use.

Great video! I agree with everything you said. I think that Dante's style switching and control scheme as a whole is as good as it's going to get. It's not like it's that bad in the first place though but to get into it: Weapon switching is on the bumpers because it allows you to switch while performing actions and moving. It's also easier to press the triggers repeatedly as opposed to the dpad to cycle more weapons. Style-switching is on the dpad because you don't switch styles as often as you do weapons and when you do switch styles, it only requires one press. I get why some people think Dante's style-switching should be streamlined because it is awkward at first and there's nothing like it. However, there really aren't any better alternative unless Dante's moveset is completely redesigned which is probably not going to happen. I strongly agree with having more inputs on the guns and melee weapons as well. I know this video is about style-switching but I find switching between more than 2 weapons to be a bigger issue so forgive me for slightly changing the subject. It does tie into the "style-switching debate" which is really a "control scheme debate" at the end of the day. The strength of the reboot's (DmC: Devil May Cry) control scheme is that it allows you to switch between 5 weapons within 1-2 button presses at most. Angel Mode (LT) and Demon Mode (RT) allow you to switch weapons just by holding down the triggers, letting go switches back to Rebellion and their secondary weapons can be switched by using the dpad which is similar to style switching in a way. The best thing about this is you can switch the secondary angel or demon weapon while performing other actions therefore allowing to instantly use that weapon when you go into either mode without having to cycle. For example, I'm using Rebellion and I want to switch to Aquilla which is the 2nd slot angel weapon. All I have to do is press left on the dpad to switch to the Aquilla and then hold LT to actually use it. Compare that to the original DMC series where Dante can only cycle one weapon at a time. Every DMC where there are more than 2 weapons makes it hard to pull off specific weapon combos due to being limited to cycle weapons in a specific direction. For example, in DMC4 I could rarely pull off a (Gilgamesh) Killer Bee into a (Rebellion) Aerial Rave because I had to cycle 2 weapons within an extremely short time period. It's not an impossible thing to do but it is extremely difficult. The problem is sorta remedied in DMC5 because you can customize the order and amount of weapons you can carry but there still is a limit to what moves you can tie together fluidly. Ideally I'd love to be able to use every weapon from every game at once but that's impractical. Overall I'm happy with Dante's style switching and controls because my only real limit is myself and not the game.

I really liked the style system as pc casual, for most of the playthrough it'd be hard enough to use well the base moveset, also way more fun focusing on switching weapons mid combo than styles. Even in the Vergil fight, I started with trickster for the easy dodges and after some deaths switched to swordmaster and got gud at timing

The first time I actually completely went through dmc3 I played the switch version with style switching and full weapon wheel on. Not gonna lie, I have no clue how people loved the game so much without it lol. Imma go through it again the original way, but man it's just crazy to think of how imma play without it. I guess I gotta learn jump cancels better now

I, who played DMC2 when it came out and than DMC3, was dreaming of style switching tech as it was so amazing in DMC2 to run on the walls and than do gun spin attack. So, the way DMC4/5 has done it is perfect

I agree with the sentiment that 4's issue with style switching really stems from the limited moveset of Dante's weapons. But I also think that it has a lot to do with how a player will compare it to Nero's gameplay. A new player will see that Nero can do an aerial combo and helmbreaker with one button, and then when they get to Dante and he needs an additional input to be able to do the same they get confused and complain.

A form I felt comfortable with was holding L1+a face button for each style instant action, I keopt weapon and gun switch to the R2 and L2, devil trigger in circle, only downside was holding sin dt but i have a controler with two programable back buttons, so I just assigned one to do circle and felt this the way to go without clawing or jumping my thumb between dpad and Lstick

The only problem with Dmc on Xbox is taunting is a little harder it's easier on Playstation especially ps4 and ps5 using the pad for taunts

If you want a more concrete example of why movement inputs on guns is not a good enough solution - look no further than Trish in DMC4:SE For the game to discern between you moving and shooting or inputting a direction move for a Pandora attack there's a slight delay during which you have to hold the direction and the shoot buttons. What ends up is that if you do not buffer it out of something, you always have this empty time, during which Trish just fires a single gunshot before executing the move. Is it the end of the world? No. For casual play you'll barely notice it. But it just ends up being slightly janky. Oh and if you wanna talk real accessibility and I mean real proper actual "I can play this game now" accessibility - just include a Game speed option that SLOWS down the game and I am not even kidding. That was already a staple of strategy games in the 2000s exactly because devs knew commanding multiple units takes time to learn how to do it properly. If you can have turbo to speed the game up just for funsies, you can also slow it down just for funsies. Here's an actual example: Using the DDMK mod by Serpentiem you can both increase and decrease the speed of the game. Try decreasing the speed of DMC4 from 1.0 to 0.9 or 0.8 even. Now all of a sudden executing a Guardfly becomes doable without having to break your fingers and learning how to do it becomes a question of first learning the inputs and then learning how to do them fast enough, instead of both at the same time.

I gotta say, it took me a while to learn style switching with Dante. It was definitely weird at first realizing you can switch from what style moveset to another. However, after almost 350 hours in the game, I wouldn't have it any other way. Actually, after watching your movement through moves, it really helped open up my brain to using what was give and unlock, but still be super stylish doing so. I can see where it can be daunting, if you're playing DMC for the first time. After replaying the game again and again, there's still so many ways on how you can be stylish.

I'm just happy we got style switching after 3

Style switching allows u to be godly. If u cant hang, just say that.

My setup: Triangle-Melee, X- use style, square-cycle guns, circle- cycle swords, R1- fire guns, R2- jump, L1- lock on, L2- Devil Trigger, DPad- Standard style switching, select- taunt. This setup works out great. Comfortable, and I do use claw grip as needed, but most of the time I use my thumb for styles.

Fantastic arguments man. Good on you for showing all the relevant footage too.

I always found style switching to be really satisfying to do in a combo. Kingdom Hearts is the only other game I can think of that made me quickly use the dpad under pressure in an equally satisfying way. Kinda just feels like you're playing better than the devs expect you to. I've day dreamed a few other ways the controls could work (well, really just DMC3 switch's weapon wheel system but using the dpad instead of the analog since I thought about it while playing 5) but I don't think things should change outside of maybe just having more options in general. Let someone make a control scheme hellscape if they want, it'll be funny.

Sounds somewhat similar to when people complain about Fromsoft games not having an easy mode (although there are options that make those games easier except for Sekiro). This isn't about the difficulty, of course, but about games adapting to them instead of them adapting to/learning the game. I am not good with Dante at all and it sometimes seems that I will never be able to become even remotely decent at playing with him, but that is mostly just a question of time and effort. And effort is it's own reward, which many people don't seem to understand. I mean, if you don't have the time nor the patience to become good enough then that's unfortunate, but don't blame the game for that. It's not as if you cannot find something else that is better suited to your circumstances. Games who have their own philosophy and identity should be praised and not criticized in that regard.

I usually always like having hold actions on trigger and actions that you can spam and hold on a bumper. neros buster for example can hold an enemy so i put that on the right trigger and the gun on right bumper.

Ever since the placement of thumb sticks on the front we've been limited by having to switch between the sticks and front buttons. I'm surprised that years after the PS2/Xbox the general masses are seeing the problem with this and releasing third party controllers with buttons on the bottom of the controller. I'm even more surprised that this isn't implemented in the newest first party PS5/Xbox Series X|S controllers. (besides the PS4 back button attachment, remember that?)

the style switching option is the best thing that happened to DMC. Dmc3 started the trend, and dmc 4 perfected it. Such a fan

The setup itself for the style switching is good .. some people just really want convenience for the games, plus the way it's setup and move inputs is like considering Devil May Cry as a fighting game.

I find Mouse and Keyboard to be the perfect layout for playing a Devil May Cry game, it's how I've gotten so good with Nero, and Style Switching with Dante on KB+M feels great!

Dmc 3 also had style switching but it was a Nintendo switch exclusive. Wish capcom updated their ports

Honestly the only issue I’ve ever had with style switching was the darkslayer select, I could never get used to that lmao