Diagnosing ignition & fuel system problems on a classic car

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A number of engine-related issues, both fuel system and ignition system, have made themselves known recently with the 1954 Renault 4CV (or 750 as it was sold here in the UK). Problems have included fuel starvation and vaporisation, blocked carburettor jets, insufficient throttle opening, engine misfires and other electrical/ignition gremlins in and around the distributor.
In this video, the clips recorded over a period of two months or so, I attempt to diagnose then fix the engine problems that I've had, following each attempt with test drive(s) to check for any improvements. There were numerous breakdowns (I didn't film them all), I also did a side-by-side comparison with the Standard 8 to check for underbonnet temperatures, especially with the ignition coil.
This isn't meant to be a "how to fix an engine" type video, more a record of the steps I took in diagnosing what was going wrong, and then effect repairs and adjustments as required. Nothing here is necessarily a recommended way of doing things - I'm no mechanic - just the things I checked for.
It's been a while since a tinkering video has made it onto the channel, they're not the easiest of videos to put together due to progress being made over a period of time, often interrupted while waiting for new engine parts to be delivered etc plus I wasn't super mobile for much of the time either.
Thanks for watching this upload, problems with engines (fuel, ignition etc) will be familiar to most long-term owners of cars like this I'm sure, not just Renault 4CVs.
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#classiccars #howto #engine

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11 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 95

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Hi, thanks for watching, a full list of the several hundred videos on the channel is here: ru-vid.comvideos OCC classic merchandise: www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop OCC Channel Membership now open!!! See the JOIN button for details OCC Patreon: www.patreon.com/OldClassicCar Channel homepage: ru-vid.com/show-UCKaTg9fPUvmUQi94FcnDbrg If there are any petrolheads that you know that might find this kind of thing interesting, please pass on one of these links, thanks!

@Vince_uk 11 месяцев назад

The power of deduction, an interesting video RJ. I do like that little car.

@jmtubbs1639 11 месяцев назад

Another component worth not drilling through is the brake servo if you have one, and I did.

@paulhelman2376 11 месяцев назад

I used fuel line shielding which is a sleeve that fits over the fuel line

@ceebee23 10 месяцев назад

Oh the memories.... my father had two 4CVs .... fun cars...

@narrowbeamdaydream 11 месяцев назад

Well done Rick in finding the problem and getting a new rotor arm. My main worry about the reliability of my old cars isn't the original parts wearing out, but the low quality of the repro parts available. I now understand why people sift through all the junk at autojumbles looking for NOS parts. For example my original MGB clutch slave cyclinder lasted 30 years and the replacement just 3 years. Same exprience with the MX5 slave cylinder (20 years and 2 years). Both failures resulted in a tow truck!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

It's funny how everyone used to complain about how bad Lucas electrical components were (allegedly), yet are keenly sought out nowadays. Thanks for watching.

@narrowbeamdaydream 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK I think that was an American thing that has now spread here, due to the internet, since Lucas stopped making car electrics and people moan that their 40 year old products break down! When I worked in the car industry back in the 70's products were deigned for an 8 year 100,000 mile life, so 5 times the design life ain't bad IMO. Back in the 60s/70s no one in Britain ever complained about Lucas. The Lucas brand name still had enough value to be sold off and you can still buy Lucas branded products today.

@jimshaver898 11 месяцев назад

I found great value in this video, your progression through the issues were great instruction and learning. I appreciate you sharing this video, I found it helpful as I have a few of these issues as well with my Triumph, mostly fuel vapourization. Keep making these types of videos!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks Jim! glad these vids are of use

@jeffking4176 11 месяцев назад

Neat little car. Lots of little problems solved. Cool. 📻🙂

@MrTabbbs 11 месяцев назад

You can still hear it arcing when running. That's what the mic interference is It's very clear on the video. Also some new HT leads could help.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Yes the leads are definitely past their best, thanks for watching

@colinmuddell9672 11 месяцев назад

An enjoyable 'fettling' video, at least for the audience if not for you! I am impressed with your throttle linkage modification. It reminds me of an Iain Tyrell Classic Workshop video where Iain cured the same problem of reduced power on a Lamborghini, or some other exotic supercar, by a simple adjustment to the linkage. I wish you a continued absence of 'failures to proceed' in the 4CV!

@michaelkeen5010 11 месяцев назад

Looks like your perseverance paid off.🤞👍

@davidanderson8407 11 месяцев назад

Great lesson in diagnostics . Thanks for another great video.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks David!

@gord307 11 месяцев назад

Great to see progress on your 4CV. Astonished by the 'improvements' which had been made by a previous owner, and well done for getting the carb linkage working better! I'm not a fan of coils bolted to engine blocks, as apart from the heat, the vibration from the engine can do the windings no good. I think modern petrol cars can suffer from having the coil packs fixed directly to the s/plugs. Anyhow, an interesting video on your diagnostic methods👍🏻

@robertclarkson5101 11 месяцев назад

I had a similar problem a few years ago in my AH sprite, faulty rotor arm. A modern replacement and faulty insulation ( plastic) I now carry a spare ( pre tested). Great video as usual.

@Phiyedough 11 месяцев назад

My dad ran his Simca 1100 for about a month running on 3 cylinders, because he could not afford to take it to a garage. When he did take it, the bill was quite modest, as it just needed a new distributor cap.

@captaccordion 10 месяцев назад

Glad to see that you've (probably) sorted it! Alarm bells went off in my head when you mentioned 2 different makes of ignition parts. I wonder if some careful measuring is called for to be sure that rotor and cap are compatible? If they are not and the spark has to leap too great a gap between rotor and cap, the fix could prove temporary. On theories of fuel vaporsation, I've only ever known it to be an issue on the suction side of a pump, and if you suspect it again, there is a WWII trick from the North African desert which could confirm the theory. When a truck stopped running due to vaporisation, caking the fuel pump with wet mud, or wrapping it in a wet rag would get the truck going again. Cheers.

@turriffterror3881 11 месяцев назад

Can;'t beat a bit of tinkering and fettling 👍

@Neil1952100 11 месяцев назад

Hi. I enjoy your videos. I do, however, miss your Anglia, which you don't show much these days. I also miss the Prefect uou had. I loved it, because my late dad had a similar one in the early '60's. I'm not complaining - just an observation. Please keep up the great work. Regards,

@billygibbons8601 11 месяцев назад

Theres lots of reasons I enjoy your video's; one of which is to try and guess where you are on your road runs but.......at 25;43...ya got me beat! Any clues Rick?

@colinbailey6014 11 месяцев назад

Great to see a tinkering vid return to me that's what your channels all about.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks, although they are the trickiest to put together and usually get the lowest views. Still, I'll keep on doing them, thanks for watching!!

@carltwidle9046 11 месяцев назад

Hi 👋 The countryside where you live is very much like ours here in New Zealand in the North Island where i live.

@lawrence5117 11 месяцев назад

I like that little Renault very much.

@jut20five 11 месяцев назад

I have just wandered into your channel and being 53 years of age I have scant knowledge of the majority of cars you champion . Here's to immensely enjoying more and to education . Thankyou for your hard work ( I suspect it the best form of hard work)

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for calling by, we're of a similar vintage by the sounds of it but it has always been the cars that pre-date me that I find most interesting

@michaeltreadwell777 11 месяцев назад

What an interesting video Rick. How strange that the rotor arm could have been the problem all along - never heard of that before. Obviously the dizzy cap can cause problems, but never the rotor arm. The heat shield looks good, and your repositioning of the carb linkage seems so much better too - the old way looked very 'Heath Robinson'. All your tinkering seems to have paid off. I know how frustrating these things are - fix one thing, another thing transpires, but eventually, it all comes together and all is well. Thanks for sharing this video with us - great fun to watch and to see all your ingenious remedies. Take care 🙂

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks Michael, hopefully things will be a little more plain sailing going forwards

@bobspeller2225 11 месяцев назад

Just goes to prove that changing one thing at a time will work wonders in finding these tricky little faults, great job well done. all the best Bob (I think I will shield the coil on my Stag as that is located at the back of the off side head along side the distributor, very hot area. cheers Bob

@giulianomarco 11 месяцев назад

😁👍

@tomcat7525 11 месяцев назад

Right on the button!

@grahamcuthbert783 11 месяцев назад

Great video, I have a Morris Minor 1000 (owned for 32 years) which has had it's problems with mixture and timing, I got help from the professionals but it was only when I set about timing and getting the mixture right myself did I get the car running really well, it is so satisfying and what is more I now know how to do it myself, just like I did when I was in my twenties!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks, yes getting to the bottom of problems is a great way to understand how it all works

@LZDEN 11 месяцев назад

splendid video my friend and good that you seem to have cured to problems.

@peterbevan2797 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for a very interesting fettling video, pleased that you got it sorted out. Hope you binned the rotor arm!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Yep I filed the old rotor arm under "B" straightaway! thanks for watching

@jeffhanson1225 11 месяцев назад

Great vid. I love that little Renault! A few observations. I fitted twin Weber 40s to my fun car and struggled to find a linkage that would work. In the end I junked all the ball joint complications and used a straight forward cable only set up. You said you had a nice healthy spark at the points. That suggests to me that your condenser is on its way out. There should only be a mere trace of a spark at the points. The best way to find arcing is to run the car in the dark and use a fine water spray bottle to wet the leads. I'm surprised that the he rotor arm was the fix. I'd suspect the carbon in the cap as a much more likely culprit. Keep up the good work!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks, like I said in the vid, new rotor and it started right up and drove fine, put the old one back in and it wouldn't fire at all.. The new cap has now arrived so I will be fitting that anyway and I'll keep the original as a spare. Thanks for watching.

@ianhalstead7864 11 месяцев назад

Hi Nice car. Having introduced a heat shield to help keep temperatures a little lower within the engine bay may have introduced another problem, namely carb Icing. Its devil to prove as by the time you have got the bonnet open the ice has desolved. The symtoms you describe fit quite well to an icing problem. good luck with the eventual solution.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

It seems to run ok now, I've had it out several times including in hot weather and it appears to be behaving. Thanks for watching.

@mervynprice7009 11 месяцев назад

I have just started to watch your video about the Carb on the 4CV. It is clearly mounted 180deg out & needs turning round. All your mods are just finding more problems. The reason they mounted the carb the wrong way round was because they could not see how to get the throttle linkage to work. The pivot of which is on the manifold. So a new pivot has to be made extending back from the existing one. This will require a strip of steel with a pair of ears making each ear to be bent at 90deg to lock the extension firmly into position on each side of the bolt & up on top of the manifold. From then on I trust the mechanism will sort itself out & the petrol pipe connection will be facing in a suitable direction coming from the Carb.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

I can imagine that would dent its performance a little! Thanks for watching

@mervynprice7009 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK No I think you have miss read what I have written. I am saying You need to rotate the Carb 180deg around its vertical axis. So that the operating lever on the card is in its correct position & the petrol input nozzle faces backwards in the direction you wish to feed it from. You then need to move the swivel point back for the rod linkage from the foot linkage in order for that to work. Obviously I cannot see what room you have available for this linkage or if you will need to make any other shortening to the linkage to get it to work. All I am saying basically is that you can never put something right that has been done wrongly in the first place by making more wrong moves. The correct way is to put the fault right & start again. As a retired Senior design engineer I know from experience that when you see something completely wrong it is better to put that right first. Then sort the cause of the wrong out.

@mervynprice7009 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK Sorry I was forgetting that unlike me, you have few facilities for making things. I know you have a bench, vice, Bench drill. But I also have a lathe & small milling machine. At my advanced years it is easy to forget that others do not have these items yet do manage to work on old cars & re-build them. Please accept My apology for not seeing that doing this sort of change will be rather more than you can do.

@richardsealey3626 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK Too many "armchair mechanics" on here today.............

@peterward3965 11 месяцев назад

As a guy who knows nothing about car maintenance, I do find your maintenance videos interesting. Do you carry a fire extinguisher? I was in suspense when you were talking about things getting hot alongside the fuel pipe etc. I giggled when you spoke about turning the ignition on 😅 As always an enjoyable video, until the next one 👍

@garywalker3818 11 месяцев назад

great blog a gen mate i got a wolseley 16/60 about 3 weeks a go just getting it tide at this time Gary from Crewe

@perrydebell1352 11 месяцев назад

Overheating ignition coils can be due to old age. If it's a traditional transformer oil filled coil, simply to replace it. There are compatible dry resin coils which can also fail with age or hard use, but it's far less common. A failing coil becomes over-stressed, when the engine is idling for long periods on a hot day. The coil usually recovers when the engine is turned off, but the damage caused by overheating is cumulative & the coil will eventually fail. Another cause is a poorly tuned engine. If the ignition timing is incorrect or the points gap has narrowed due to wear, then the coil is energised for too long & will overheat. Both the points gap & distributor timing must be reset both statically & dynamically. Incorrect timing can also be down to a faulty ignition advance/retard mechanism. Spark plugs, high tension leads & the condenser are relatively inexpensive & worth replacing. Happy motoring. 🤩

@peterlangridge4639 11 месяцев назад

I always consult the Distributor Doctor for bits. He has vast stock's and is based in Somerset. For plug leads i think 90 degree caps would allow better clearances. Did you revert back to the original coil position? Coils are very tollerant of high temps. Too many times people condemn the coil for supposition but in 50 years, ive never once had a coil fail.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

At the moment I'm back running on the old coil, but I'll probably switch to the new one and leave the original in place "just in case". Thanks for watching.

@allanriches9381 11 месяцев назад

very good video of some gremlins, good to see it going again. Amazing how something like the rotor button having a crack can stop it from running. Are you going to use original coil or new coil in new location.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

At the moment it's back on the original but I'll probably switch it over to the new one and keep the original in place as a back up, knowing how reliable many of these new repro parts are(nt)

@allanriches9381 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK Quality, a thing of our youth.

@chrisrumble2665 11 месяцев назад

I think you need to order a "because French" T shirt from Hubnut 😂

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Who? ;-)

@tedcowart3647 11 месяцев назад

Great video! It sounds like your camera is picking up more ignition arcing. Maybe a new set of plug wires with 45 or 90 degree boots? Also I remember some of the Triumph Spitfires used Delco distributors and the cap and rotor looked just like your. You might look up a cap and rotor for one and check it out. Thanks for showing us your great little car. Ive never seen one here in the US.

@geraldfunnell7932 11 месяцев назад

Brilliant! video better than watching Vera ! I had a Austin A35 van that suffered with fuel evaporation I rapped exhaust bandage round the pipe and it did the trick 😂

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Yes I had to use exhaust wrap on big Dodge, thanks for watching

@stefantrnacek1394 11 месяцев назад

What about running a very short fuel line straight over the rocker cover? You would have to disconnect it to remove the rocker cover, but being a very short line, there would be less area to heat up.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

That's how it was when I bought the Renault, but I've put it to how it would have been originally, running closer to the fan

@austinswallow 11 месяцев назад

Is it possible to rotate the entire carburettor 180-degrees on its manifold mounts, that would totally cure the convoluted fuel line route into a gentle sweep and the linkage to the the throttle would be better positioned for a short straight connection? It would also make the adjustment of something I can see above the manifold easier. Your rotor arm looks very similar to that fitted to my Austin 7 and to my Standard Big Nine, modern equivalents have a longer tab, which are easily cut down to length. I think the ones I have bought recently were for a '50's Ford Pop - perhaps your Anglia has the same? The distributor caps on both my cars - the dizzies are a Lucas DS4 on the Austin and a Lucas D4.1 on the Standard and the "modern" equivalent cap is actually for a Renault Dauphine! A cap for a Ford Pop will also fit, but these seem to now be unavailable. These caps are all a tight fit due to the location tab on the cap with the slot on the dizzy mounting flange not being exactly the same size, but does the job. On both my cars I am now using epoxy filled coils, more expensive but better to resist temperature & vibration, the Standard's is mounted on a bracket above the engine, which was how it left the factory and I am thinking about using silicone washers to help reduce the heat transfer through the bracket. Good luck with the cars and thanks for sharing!

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Some interesting points there, thanks for watching

@gordonwebster3809 11 месяцев назад

that rotor arm looks like a bedford ha wonder if the cap is the same would not surprise me.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Delco Remy was used on a lot of Vauxhalls and Bedfords so I'm sure there will be similar out there. Thanks for watching.

@hondamonkeyboy 11 месяцев назад

What a tremendous tinkering episode. I love that 4CV. Rick, remind me. What is that red stick on gauge in the middle of the dash. I remember them from younger days but cannot remember their purpose. Is it to check mpg?

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Hi, it's a Tel-U-Log, magnetic, with rotating dials allowing the driver to keep a log of mileage and fuel used - an early on-board computer! Thanks for watching.

@hondamonkeyboy 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK Thank you.That's what I thought. I haven't seen one for decades.

@revohastie8127 2 месяца назад

Lag the pipe wit heat material

@daviddjerassi 11 месяцев назад

There is another HT lead arching your camera showed it i wonder if you might pick up an original carb at one of the Stafford auto jumbles .Thank you for the video.

@johndavey72 11 месяцев назад

Well done Richard . Is there any reason why you can't get a solex ?

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

I don't think they were a common fitment here, I might find one in France but I decided to get this one working.

@stephenricketts7764 11 месяцев назад

I think you have solved the fuel issue with the heat shield, the linkage and re-route of the fuel line. I am not sure the electrical side is solved though. New HT leads would go some way to a cure, I can still hear a 'ticking' when you open the bonnet. Although you put the low tension leads on the new coil as they came off the old one it is possible that someone has got the polarity wrong in the past. While that may not cure the 'ticking' (HT leads may be the cause of that) it will improve performance if found to be wrong. There is a small device available to test the polarity of the low tension coil leads which you insert between the distributor cap and the HT lead from the coil. This lights up at the top or bottom depending which way around the low tension leads are placed on the coil (should come with instructions). I hope this helps, it is quite a common issue I am told and for peace of mind I think it is worth checking. Thanks for the 'tinkering' video Rick, these are always welcome. 🔧👍👍

@tomday7309 11 месяцев назад

Hi Rick, i'm still watching the video, but noticed that the lever plate the cobbled throttle rod is connected to also looks cobbled. The hole on top looks to have been used at one point as it has a blackish wear area around it. I also agree that copper/plastic tubing in the delivery of gasoline was outlawed in racing and in general many years ago and aluminum or steel tubing with proper connectors is recommended. No need to set yourself ablaze. I don't know Solex carbs or how that Weber would compare. Your performance issues may also be related to the differences in internal construction once you've fixed the linkage issue. Good luck with the Renault said by a former owner of an R12.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

I'm assuming that the carb was used on a different car altogether at one time so maybe the other hole in the linkage was in use then. Thanks for watching!

@justhavinfun7467 11 месяцев назад

I think with regard to your fuel line, I'd go with a steel braided line and take the most direct route from the fuel filter straight across to the carburetor inlet...thus minimizing the exposure of the line to heat sources and give you better ability to remove the valve cover when that time comes...new high tension leads and relocating the coil to a cool spot like the fire wall would really help I think.....just some thoughts

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for watching, new HT leads are on the list and I have moved the new coil to a cooler position than the original as explained in the vid.

@justhavinfun7467 11 месяцев назад

@@oldclassiccarUK Yeah I spoke too soon regarding the coil...also thinking about the overly hot new coil, that could be a result of resistance in the primary (king) lead...that new coil will have little internal resistance and is trying to push through a resistant old lead...That's a cool old car...we dont have anything like it here in the states...you're doing a great job preserving some very interesting pieces of automotive history....many thanks and we'll keep watching your most interesting videos....Good job!

@Phiyedough 11 месяцев назад

For cars with no hazard flashers I would suggest you carry one of those warning triangles you can place at the edge of the road.

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

Yes there's one in the boot "just in case"

@matteomarmiroli1713 11 месяцев назад

Thank you, this video will be very useful to get my 1953 4CV as close as original in the engine bay Mine has still the original Solex The only problem is that it tends to overheat! And while investigating, i found out that it's probably the thermostat Is it close to the water pump? I can't find it, do you know where it us? Thank you very much

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

My workshop manual doesn't show a thermostat in the cooling system. Maybe ask on the 4CV Facebook page? People on there really know their 4CVs. Overheating could be cause by many things, including faulty radiator cap, blocked water passages in the engine and/or radiator, incorrect engine timing etc.

@stephenoliver1437 11 месяцев назад

I would get the dist cover changed to complete the problematic ignition so it’s matched is the Renault engine same as the Dauphine I’ve been investigating to run on electronic ignition but found out they have twelve volt system only

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

The new dizzy cap arrived the other day too so I'll be fitting that shortly also

@paulhelman2376 11 месяцев назад

I should think copper fue l line would ld conduct heat to the fuel with greater acidity y then a rubber one. Plus copper is prone to cracking . A couple of small universal joints might have worked for the wonky throttle linkage?

@oldclassiccarUK 11 месяцев назад

It seems to be behaving now, I've had it out on several local trips with no issue so fingers crossed it's there or at least very nearly there.

@TonyA-tm9ol 11 месяцев назад

Try sheathing the metal fuel pipe in a length of split silicone vacuum hose ( which is suitabky thick walled) , to keep it insulated from the engineand manifold heat...

@davidneale5821 11 месяцев назад

I may be wrong, but you appear to have side movement on the throttle linkage on the left hand side of the engine. This will result in a loss of mechanical advantage on the linkage. Correcting this may help you achieve full throttle movement at the carb.

@paulhelman2376 11 месяцев назад

A digital infrared laser thermometer is quite inexpensive and might be handy.

@andrewdoran4572 11 месяцев назад

If you think you are getting slight misfire under load through poor HT leads, run the engine under a small load in complete darkness.....any loose "sparks" will be seen jumping from the lead to the nearest earth point.

@jamestudoseartimon 11 месяцев назад

I'm sure if an engine is misfiring especially a petrol engine it increases the engine temperature considerably over its normal running temp. That can't of been helping ambient engine bay temps...