Did Firefly BREAK The Meta? | Prydwen HSR 2.3 Tierlist 

My NEUTRAL TAKE for Acheron VS Firefly: E0S0 FF > E0S0 Acheron E0S1 FF ~ E0S1 Acheron FF falls off hard without RM/HMC, while Acheron can more or less perform with any 2 Nihility. Acheron needs more relic investment. Firefly can't do anything vs toughness lock. Acheron ABOBA >>>

The thing is that Gallagher can do 150k ults followed by 100k enhanced basic attack. Luocha just can't do that.

Ruan Mei is the true winner

The one that would be on top is the player who uses both Firefly and Acheron teams.

Both. Both are equally good, at e0s1, and in their BiS teams/relics. In fact, you can build and pull both of these teams if you have started in 2.0, when penacony launched and there was a surge of new players/returning old players coming in. It’s an absolute no brainer. Just pull Acheron e0s1, pull firefly+Ruan Mei e0s0, then save up for a dedicated debuffing 5star limited sustain for Acheron. You can use pela+guin for Acheron team, and firefly with her premium break team. Replace the Acheron supports if you’d like in the future, or just save up for waifu/husbando reasons. Cuz you legit Unlock Maintenance Mode with Acheron+Firefly teams now, and you will full clear absolutely everything, non negotiable. There’s no “heated” debate here cuz both use entirely different teams, and they’re both spaced out in a way where you can realistically pull both (assuming you skipped all the banners and saved in between Acheron and firefly). Both have entirely different functionality, but both have the same advantage, which is doing absolutely bonkers damage. Honestly, it all comes down to 2 things: preference and account status.

You go out with Firefly on a nice date, then come home in Acheron.

The fact that ruan mei wasnt up in t0 until now is absolutely insane

Genuinely, respectfully, super nuclear himeko should be higher

The biggest FF weakness is her comp requirement, and toughness lock. Which puts Acheron>FF for majority of people. But best part is Acheron and FF do not compete on team members so just run both

An abundance character doing a lot of damage is so cool to me. I like hanya as harmony but sadly she’s been power crept. I just use her for fun in Divergent mode with Firefly

Archeron team autos surprisingly well I wonder how Firefly team does with auto. Dot team and follow up team auto very well.

I feel like this man is slowly becoming XQC as time goes on..... Like, i swear it was much easier for me to understand him like a year ago and now its like 50/50 lmao.

I feel like if we count Ratio and DHIL with their best teams, they’re about the same in clear speed. Ratio might technically deal less damage, but since he enables follow up users like Topaz’s Numby, Aventurine’s follow ups, and Robin’s ult damage, the whole team averages out the damage from a hyper carry DHIL team

1 thing underrated? that has shown up with Bronya and firefly is that you can still get value even with INSANE speed units like firefly by using auto attacks to get a larger action advance

Kafka withstood the test of time i am so happy ,she is only old character that is still in tir 1. or 0.5 and she is from 1.2. patch ,i suspect dot will going evolve soon

I agree that I hope players are not blinded by Firefly/Boothill's performance because of the MoC buff. The current MoC buff with Firefly is so good.

Gallagher is the reason I am not continuing to pull for fu xuan and pull ruan mei instead. Even in dotcheron team he is very useful with his debuff on his ult and break capabilities

is dot acheron really better than her hypercarry? I do have Kafka and was lucky enough to get E1 Black Swan in 1 10 pull. ACheron be better on this team?

dhil e0s0 > ratio e0s0 because ratio light cone increases his performance by so much while dhil can run aeon and perform not too much worse compared to e0s0 firefly e0s1 and acheron e0s1 are pretty equal, however firefly comes out on top in my opinion because no one factors in the additional super break damage from harmony trailblazer and gallagher. on a more personal level, i prefer firefly due to the damage being less backloaded and not having to spend whole ults for low health elites to clutch a cycle, and firefly is much easier to build than acheron. if acheron fans truly want to believe she comes out on top over firefly, just consider that moc has a hard limit and both of these dps can easily 0 cycle even when brute forcing.

33:00 Investment wise, FF should easily be best choice since you don't even need to find crit. It's basically a Hyperbloom driver in Genshin Impact. That said,FF is one dimensional. Remove HMC/RM, her damage plummets. Acheron is more flexible since she works with dots and HC. Though, It feels incomplete. Firefly team feels complete. I don't think they have do anything else so her team won't be changing unless HY will Powercrept.

Your community is broke. Mfers saying Ratio over DHIl lmfaooo. They aint seen a bag before 😭😭

Starting the video off with king yuan praise W

I never really thought about it but what does DPS mean if “per second” isn’t really a thing?

I run both E0S0 DHIL and E0S0 Ratio, and if I don’t count my supports, DHIL clears Ratio.

We need another Ruan Mei harmony unit.

For Bronya it's an interesting case study on how their ranking system works. Iirc they are rating her E0S0. For which 1.5 is fine or even generous. Her E1 and her S1 significantly fix her SP issues and many players have them, so their actual Bronya experience will be T1 or even higher with boothill

Having E0 S1 Acheron and E1 S0 Firefly……my firefly is destroying my Acheron in comparison dmg wise, firefly is also more fun to play comb wise and way more friendly to build. Which is why Firefly wins in my opinion, couldnt MOC 12 as good lately anymore, pulled firefly and I just zero turned it with her team.

I just want to say that the flexibility of BH teams seems like a point to consider, being able to play teams of 2 dps (for example acheron and BH is amazing) or not depend on a pj make very comfortable for me.

I think acheron as a unit is better but the FF break team overall outperforms the acheron team. FF supports are completely broken in comparison to acheron's BiS supports which might change when they add the fox (I haven't looked at his kit and numbers so idk how much of an impact he will have)

i got E6 Natasha like 3-5 days into the game and she carried my ass in the first few months because i only have her and Fu until Lynx came out

what i love about DoT i can use both in moc and pf

Idk why Boothill is on the same tier as Kafka or Swan, I don't see Kafka or Black Swan doing anywhere CLOSE to Boothill's performance and damage output, my DoT team is goated to the sauce and Boothill is doing so much more dmg it's not even a question he should be in t0.

ppl : Acheron or FF ? based chads : Boothill

Pulling jingliu was the best option because now my jingliu is fully built and now i can focus my other team for dot and superbreak. So now i don't have to fatm crit sets more cuz the crit value that jinliui provide is soo good.

Are people forgetting about the investment part? Farming crit rate + crit damage + speed + atk, and hunting main stats in planer relics in a normal dps like acheon is just hell meanwhile Firefly with literally Dendro Hyperbloom treatment Also Lightcone another investment needed to compare E0 Acheron to Firefly, otherwise Firefly is just better

You said if a new player can have a full acheron team or a full firefly team but if I pick Acheron team I’d be grinding crit relic for months to make acheron work meanwhile main stat speed boots and break rope and Firefly is already done. So yea I think I know which one a real ‘new player’ would pick

Ruan mei deserved that T0 spot and luocha is still good cuz i use him with hmc ruan mei and firefly since aven and luocha are my only 5 star sustain. I have gall but i dont have enough materials to build him, ill probably wait for lingsha to come out and see what she does!

I panic pulled her E2S1 two days before the banner ended 😭 I mean I do have E1 RM for her but I wanted e0s1 Jiaoqiu next patch and Lingsha the one after that. I'm not even gonna try to pull for Black Swan's E1 for my dot team. I'll pray break stays viable for a long time.

anyone looked at the individual calculations in each of firefly and acherons pages? firefly looks nuts

why dont u click on FF's page and see in the CALCULATION tab, it is >60% contribution of HMC dmg tho, lmao

Acheron will just have her bis team once jiaoqiu comes out that makes her ult be up even faster with some buff. I would really like to try going for ff, but i wanna get e0 jiaoqiu and e0s1 sparkle.

So, a funny thing with Harm-Only MC, I swapped my FF gear onto HMC, except for the LC where I used MoP and HMC was doing 600k dmg on her skill when Argenti got broken in ApoShadow. Sure, I had Ruan Mei, Pela and Gallagher, but HMC was doing dmg that I've never seen on a MC in any other gacha games!

I got super lucky at firefly banner now I need to make Galagher got e1 in single 10 pulls and weapon after 40 that never happened since the start of a game that was my luckiest session.

I want to see a whale make a tier list (purely out of curiosity). I want to see how every limited-time character performs when they are at their strongest (E6S5). Eidolons make things much more extrapolated.

AVENTURINE MY GOAT WOOOOOO THATS MY BUSTER

30:52 going to need super glue for that SUPA BREAK damage.

I saw showcases with dps luocha, that used as hypercarry with 3 supports and he beat the MoC, you should try to build crit luocha

The fact people keep trying to push this idea that Firefly is bad if you take away her supports is laugable. By that logic Xiangling is a bad unit because she needs Bennett and Hu Tao is a bad unit because she needs XQ. Why would you not rank a character using their best team? Anything less doesn't make sense. Anyways, between Acheron and Firefly frankly its rather close. Acheron can abuse more supports for the time being and is slightly more consistent (with her LC), but Firefly is ridiculously cheap in terms of team, build, and gear. At Dolphin investment (E2S1), Firefly is firmly ahead simply because her E2 is just better than Acherons, its actually pretty hilarious they gave her Seeles resurgence with a much more forgiving trigger. People bring up that Acheron doesn't have her BiS support and ill argue neither does Firefly. Both teams have plenty of room for improvement and its gonna be a treat to see how future units shake things up for Nihility and Break meta as a whole.

I would say that Acheron is infinitesimally better than Firefly at E0S1 given how massive Acherons LC is for her while there isn't much difference between FF LC and fall of an aeon, but Firefly really wins in how much easier she is to reach her full potential for. Very strong F2P LC option, (that Acheron just does not have, you NEED her signature) 1 of the best supports for her is given to everyone, the best sustain for her is a 4* meaning pretty much everyone can not only get him but get his absurdly strong eidolons too, and the last BiS support is also incredibly high pull value given she can work with any team that comes out in the future regardless of whether break teams remain relevant. Not to mention, all of them pretty much only need spd and break effect, making building them much easier than Acheron teams. So Acheron may be slighter better than Firefly in a vacuum, but Firefly is pretty much at the exact same level of performance while being significantly more accessible to a lot wider range of players, so if I had to choose one to put in T0 over the other I'd choose Firefly.

From a pure new player perspective. I started a month ago. And while having barely anything on my firefly she's doing so much damage. I think I would be struggling much more right now if I had the same investment on acheron. Also having to pull only ruan mei for her, helps a lot with future planning pulls. But from what I saw acheron have quite higher ceiling and doesn't care about toughness lock.

I started playing during penacony and was able to get acheron, ruan mei and firefly? Is it worth to get eidolons for these characters particulary e2 as a f2p?

25:40 i recently just built xeuiyi and hot take.......with superbreak, i think shes better then seele

I honestly just came here to look at aventurine in t0. The rest of y’all can fight about the dps.

with future units that doesn't require debuff, Topaz is gonna be so much better. Like right now the only extremely good fua dps is ratio but he requires debuffs, I'm guessing once the unit I saw in my dreams come out she will not be restricted to just Ratio, making her better. Really recommend Pokke to check her personal damage with(I think?) final victor and swordplay at s5 because she now has those options available with recent changes to prydwen's criterias.

Is it me or I haven’t seen people using TY in a long time but the 3 chars in T1.5 are being used frequently for me I use bronya and pela a lot (don’t have sw or sparkle)

They equal. Acheron no dmg until ult, FF no damage until break

Both FF and acheron are equal from my experience, both these team pretty much can clear all modes, yes including pure fiction. While in Apo and MOC i am using standard lineup, i just need include himeko in FF team in Pure fiction. (Note: i use DOTacheron)

Sobre la discusión del equipo de acheron y Fireflay solo puedo decir hay 2 equipos en el juego y como ninguna se pisa al crear su equipo, si tienes a una o la otra tienes unos tremendos dps ❤

here's hoping they wouldn't add so many enemies that can resist toughness break. although I don't think they will since that would be too disadvantageous for break teams.

A good Acheron needs S1, and either Black Swan, Kafka, or Silver Wolf. A good Firefly only needs a Ruan Mei to be insane, as Gallagher and E6 HMC are free. FF feels infinitely much better to play and get as opposed to a good Acheron team.

Firefly is not a dps because she’s similar as Kafka or BS. Her team is not just her and others boosting her. Her team is capable to do current MoC 0 cycle even without her which is not the case for Acheron. FF is not the main part of her team but Acheron is. So that’s why she can be only in specialist tier. She sucks and dps, in Genshin those heroes called Drivers

Tbh, I can't wait to see what meta they will be trying to push in 3.0. Throughout patch 1 is FuA, first half of patch 2 is DoT while second half is break/superbreak.

How do you beat adventuren

I think its completly fair for 2 different or even more T0 dps to be on a list as long as they do a different arcetype of dmg so for example a normal crit dps compared to a break centered one can both be t0

I think Acheron is probably more future proof given that we already have boss enemies that make their break bars immune to damage. I don't think MoC/Apocalyptic Shadow bosses have yet to increase their effect res. Only the Simulated Universe bosses where that's offset by blessings. So Acheron seems like she'll be able to stay relevant longer.

If both FF and Acheron are E0 S0, I'd say Firefly. I cleared MOC with 2/5/5/5 talents and no nodes unlocked. My acheron has 80/160 but without the weapon it takes too long to get her ult up. Imo it's hard to gauge the 2 because acheron's damage is inflated by dead targets and FF with E2 atks 6-8 times per ult window.

for your ff vs acheron scenario i'd say firefly, if you get kafka and black swan then id pick acheron

Harmony characters carry this game

I have Acheron on both my accounts. One copium E0S0 with Pela + Sampo/Welt, one with BS/Pela/SW that I eventually E2S1'd. Even at E0S0 level my main Acheron was just way better as a result of having that second premium Nihility character. Pela is great for the DEF shred but she doesnt quite apply debuff (and deals like no damage) like BS or SW can. and this is something you need esp on a E0S0 Acheron. Also lacking the LC is just Painge. The alternatives either lack the damage or the debuff potential. Firefly needs a team with good synergy too, but hers requires 1 free unit, one 4* that comes on her banner (comparable to Pela for Acheron) and one premium unit. (rather then 2) Plus her LC is easily replacable with an alternative. So she is just much easier to use at low investment levels or F2P. Ofcourse if you do have BS or SW to add to Acheron team (or pulled her LC) its a different story. The extra debuff application + dps makes a huge difference to her team. That said, I would say a full Acheron team (with SW/BS, debuff capable sustain) has better longevity and flexibility since Acheron does not care about breakbar-locking.

I think both teams have alot more room for important for Acheron it will be jiaqou, people also say firefly doesn't have team for improvement but thats not true they will eventually release a character than enables super break and is 5 star that outperforms hmc (Like nahida with dendro mc) and mihoyo will also probably release a 5 star galgaher at some point

I was able to do this patches content without using relics on my Firefly. (Not a single one was equipped) I gotta say they pretty note worthy

I still think firefly should be priority because she can clear any boss because she applies weakness and ruan mei is really good but we need different dps for different bosses so firefly should be priority

Aventurine the goat where he needs to be🗣️ as someone who still uses jingliu I still think she’s 0.5. Ratio needs to go up aswell because of the ipc team.

I'd say that Acheron is a little bit better than Firefly because if the enemy locks their toughness gauge, then Firefly just can't do any damage. But for Acheron, you can always just brute force your way through anything. The only silver lining is that those kinds of enemies are relatively rare, but they absolutely hard counter any break team.

27:52 All jokes aside, I’ve been thinking about this too. Either just drop JL to T1, or replace her with someone. With how broken some characters are nowadays, I don’t think she’s worthy to be there anymore

I like to see how Tingyun will do in the future.😊

DHIL clears Ratio by miles lmao

I was so shocked when i 0 cycled in auto play using e2s1 firefly with bronya instead of gallagher. My e2s1 acheron never did that even in her first release moc buff💀

my firefly's enhanced e does the same amount of damage as my archeons burst and she can let off multiple of them while archeron sits there like a idiot collecting stacks.

What does T0 mean?

ARCHERON MAIN 💜

When is there an MoC where there's no trash mobs for Boothill to kill?

saying boothil has only one team while completely ignoring firefly is kinda insane , i would argue that boothil can use more supports than firefly remove hmc and firefly dmg will be mid tier , boothil can still use bronya/pela and still do fine

My acheron is e2 s1 but even her skill hits for 70-100k dmg. The ult just insta kills whatever.

ARGENTI IS SO UNDERRATED I literally cleared moc 12 first half comfortably with E0S0 argenti hypercarry with full stars easily

Can firefly kill all 3 trotters in a simulated simulator? If not, then Acheron still the queen dps 🤣

The Acheron glazing is crazy, look at her average clear speed. Her being "T0" is just overkill damage brainrot (I have E0S1 Acheron btw).

I hava an E0S1 Acheron and an E1S0 Firefly My Acheron has 3617 ATK, 100% CritR and 202% CritDMG (in combat with Fu Xuan) My Firefly has 2801 ATK, 161 speed and 289,3% Break Effect (in combat, without HTB technique. And she doesn't have any ornament set cause my luck is atrocious) I tested both teams on the 6th stage of the Xianzhou's MoC where the boss is weak to lightning and there's no trotter. My Firefly team made a 0 cycle and my Acheron team ended at the start of 1 cycle and overall the Firefly team feels better to play.

if we didn't ever have to worry about enemies locking their toughness bars ever again, FF would probably come out on top... enemies with high effect res def suck too but acheron can still deal at least some damage rather than being completely locked out- super break teams being super easy to counter (on paper) is prob the only reason they can be considered balanced at all

I really gotta wait and see bc rn all of the content except pf juices break teams, and Acheron has proven to still be very effective in everything. Now I just need to see firefly outside of her best conditions

30:50 NOOOOOOOOOOOO OUR GENERAL

I also have E2S2 DIHL brain rot too, but I think I'd have to admit E0S0 DIHL vs E0S0 Ratio, Ratio might hedge ahead a bit, but I think Ratio is a bit overrated still since so many got him for free, his damage output is kinda lacking but his endless follow up cycle with Topaz in particular is very satisfying to play, and adds up his overall damage. Edit: the Acheron vs Firefly.. I think Acheron still wins in the overall category, but when you start comparing E2S1 of each? Gets a little harder, but I'd still say Acheron since she's slightly more flexible in teams to get optimal damage.

Lol Acheron isn't even beating out DHIL in cycle clears right now, where do people go off thinking she would be better than Firefly.

E0S0 Firefly > Acheron E0S1? Now the comparison starts

Everyone compares Pela's ult to SW's ult being multi vs single target. Which I frankly think is super unimportant compared to Pela's ult being cheap and relatively spammable vs SW's uilt which REQUIRES E1 to be affordable, but, at e0, SW's ult is very expensive

I personally see Firefly more as a Enabler like Nilou in Genshin. The DMG that Acheron does comes from Acheron herself where as the DMG Firefly does comes more from Harmony MC. She enables Harmony MC's super break to really pop of. Harmony MC needs Firefly to really make his/her super break shine where as Firefly needs Harmony MC to do the amount of DMG that she can bring for the team. So i think having her in the Specalist category is fitting.

32:29 FF already has insane supports like RM Let’s wait for the gay pela and see who’s better then

30:52 SUUUUUUPAH BREAAAAAAK

I just started playing and Ruan mei is cool and all but I want firefly main dps and looks so cool

Tbh firefly's only weakness is Sam's first phase because you can't break him until he does his move (I don't know the name of that ability😅) , who knows maybe they will add more enemies with the same mechanic