Did Joseph Smith send men on missions and then marry their wives? Ep. 180

Подписаться 84 тыс.

Просмотров 16 тыс.

50% 1

Over the years lots of people have claimed that Joseph Smith sent men on missions and then married their wives. Is it true? That’s the question Dave explores in this episode.
Video transcript: saintsunscripted.com/faith-an...
- “Biographies of Joseph Smith’s Plural Wives,” via JosephSmithsPolygamy.org: bit.ly/3Su6jv9
- “Did Joseph Smith send men on missions in order to ‘steal’ their wives?” via FAIR: bit.ly/3Pe9dC7
- “Did Joseph Smith send Apostle Orson Hyde on a mission so that he could secretly marry his wife Marinda while he was gone?” via FAIR: bit.ly/3uRXmln
- “Joseph Smith’s Personal Polygamy,” by Brian Hales: bit.ly/3Swak24
- “Joseph Smith’s Sexual Polyandry and the Emperor’s New Clothes: On Closer Inspection, What Do We Find?” by Brian Hales: bit.ly/3RDPy01
- “Was Joseph Smith sealed or married to other men’s wives without the knowledge or consent of the husbands?” via FAIR: bit.ly/3vInCPq
- Gospel Topics essay: “Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” via the Church website: bit.ly/3AYGVav
- Gospel Topics essay: “Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo,” via the Church’s website: bit.ly/2MITdwO
- Gospel Topics essay: “Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah,” via the Church’s website: bit.ly/3PxO2eo
- Gospel Topics essay: “The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage,” via the Church’s website: bit.ly/3ySG7kT
- “‘Denying the Undeniable’: Examining Early Mormon Polygamy Renunciations,” via Brian Hales: bit.ly/3v3l6TG
- “The Prophet Secretly Teaches Polygamy,” via Brian Hales: bit.ly/3PepVBo
- 1859 claim that Joseph sent 3 men on missions and married their wives (patently false): bit.ly/3z7BdSy Research from FAIR debunking this: bit.ly/3Pe9dC7
- “The Prophet Joseph Smith and His Plural Wives,” (a book review) by Richard Lloyd Anderson & Scott Faulring (BYU Studies): bit.ly/35kg6wN
- John C. Bennett claims that Joseph sent men on missions to marry their wives: bit.ly/3OdrFcK / bit.ly/3uRbn2E / bit.ly/3Pd2kkJ
- Two sources for Marinda Nancy Johnson’s marriage to Joseph: (1843) bit.ly/3z8AEru / (1842)
Notes:
- Side-note: David Sessions received his Elders license in May, 1842. My understanding is that this license was given to everyone ordained to that office of the priesthood. The license was required in order to be a missionary, but not everyone with a license was immediately sent on a mission (many “Elders” never served missions). For example, Henry Jacobs (husband of Zina Huntington) received his license on April 13, 1840, but did not serve a mission until January, 1842.
- Quote from Brian Hales: “In 1842 John C Bennett claimed that the Prophet had sent men on missions so he could marry their wives in Nauvoo. This statement is contradicted by multiple historical data. Of the thirteen ‘polyandrous’ husbands, we have no sealing dates for three, and nine were not on missions at the time Joseph was sealed to their legal wives.Only one, Orson Hyde, is documented as on a mission at the time of Marinda Johnson Hyde’s sealing to Joseph Smith and he had been gone for well over a year. Also, we have two sealing dates for Marinda, one while Orson was away and another in an affidavit saying the sealing occurred after he had returned. This popular assertion is simply not true.” (Via personal correspondence - I’m not sure whether or not it is found in a separate publication.)
- A few more examples of this claim that Joseph sent men on missions and married their wives:
English clergyman, Henry Caswall, 1843: “...many English and American women, whose husbands or fathers had been sent by the prophet on distant missions, were induced to become his ‘spiritual wives,’...” Source: bit.ly/3zwFMEZ
Excommunicated member Benjamin Winchester, 1889: “It was a subject of common talk among many good people in Nauvoo that many of the elders were sent off on missions merely to get them out of the way, and that Joseph Smith, John C. Bennett and other prominent Church lights had illicit intercourse with the wives of a number of the missionaries..." Source: bit.ly/3QlwCSj
Nonmember Harry Beardsley, 1931: “Joe remained in hiding in Nauvoo for several months, dividing his time between a dozen hide-outs -- among them homes of Mormons where there were attractive daughters, or where the husbands were away on missionary tours." Source: bit.ly/3Jw0OrV
Modern antagonistic source, MormonThink, chooses their words carefully (leaving much to the imagination) by only noting that “It is said that Joseph sent men on missions overseas then married their wives.”
SUBSCRIBE:
saintsunscripted/subscribe

Опубликовано:

17 ноя 2022

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 242

@PleasantGreen Год назад

The editor needs a raise 👍🏻

@savezelda Год назад

No doubt

@Irvingdector Год назад

Yes 🙌🏾

@jasonalanashby 11 месяцев назад

Preach!

@lorijohnson4047 6 месяцев назад

Naw. We pay enough as it is without all that,

@Trevor99999 9 месяцев назад

He still sealed himself to women who were at the time currently married, it’s still messed up whichever way you look at it.

@JonahTheWhite 2 месяца назад

Joseph Smith was the alpha male of the century. He was too powerful and got the women he wanted even if they were married to other men.

@ronrhodes4521 Год назад

David, thanks for all the research and information. It's important to not overlook these facts when it comes to assessing accusations against Joseph Smith. I also appreciate your respectful approach to those who disagree with us. There are many who turn a bit mean spirited when either making an accusation or defending an accusation, which, while human nature, is not what the Savior would do (and ironically, that's the whole point of the church today, and the whole mission of Joseph Smith) Your balanced approach is really appreciated. Thanks for all your hard work.

@footspike55 Год назад

I do not understand. He is marrying other men’s wives but I’m supposed to care where they were when he did so?

@shireecox122 11 дней назад

Sealing is different than marriage

@dr__hennessy5193 Год назад

My question is to why these woman needed to be sealed to Joseph even though these men weren’t on missions?

@LordDirus007 7 месяцев назад

Sexual Perversion, the reason the Husbands didn't rebel was because they themselves were given Multiple Young Women to take as wives. Really sick stuff

@amberjohnson2778 Год назад

He says John C. Bennett was the first to accuse Joseph of "sending men on missions and then marry their wives" and then shows 3 newspaper clippings to support it. Only, if you take the time to read the small print clippings, Bennet does not make that skewed claim. Rather, he speaks of "sending their husbands to preach" and "keeping their husband's at a distance"...which he illustrates but does not really address in the case of Zina Huntington & her husband. He points out that Zina Huntington was sealed to Joseph Smith on Oct.27th 1821 and her husband, Henry Jacob's left on a mission in January...just over 2 months after Zina was sealed to Joseph. Of course he would have gotten his "mission call" sooner than that. And, as an FYI, although Zina was still married to Henry, shortly after Joseph's death, Brigham Young marries her and 2 years later sends Henry on a mission to England, which led her to openly live as Brigham's wife fir the rest of her life.

@xxxgabaxxx 5 месяцев назад

Ouch! Poor and dumb Henry...

@justinmasterson4611 Год назад

I have a question how is it that you have definite pictures of all of the women he was sealed to but no definite picture of Joseph Smith would anybody know the answer to that?? It wouldn't matter if these men went on missions or not he still married or excuse me was sealed to other men's wives what would have been the purpose of that??

@brettmajeske3525 Год назад

It has to do with existence in the Eternities.

@Wylieguy Год назад

Great video as always David! Also, you're voice sounds great in this one. (I know, a little bit of strange comment, but I'm an animator and I tend to notice that sort of thing for work. Idk why your voice sounds a little different, hope you are not sick, but sounds dope all the same).

@ashlarxxx Год назад

Still the fact remains that Joseph married already-married women especially those who are married to active members of the Church. I can’t see any justification to that historically, culturally, spiritually, and especially scripturally.

@brettmajeske3525 Год назад

He was sealed, not necessarily married. It was pertaining to a future relationship in heaven, after all parties had died. Since their previous marriages were only "until death do you part" so their mortal marriages would have ended.

@janebaily3758 Год назад

I agree it's very problematic...mission or Not!

@ashlarxxx Год назад

@@brettmajeske3525 "It was pertaining to a future relationship in heaven, after all parties had died." that is INFIDELITY. "He was sealed, not necessarily married." nope, according to LDS doctrine to be sealed to someone is to be married to him/her. How can one trust a doctrine that encouraged INFIDELITY?

@brettmajeske3525 Год назад

@@ashlarxxx Incorrect, there are many types of sealings in LDS theology. Joseph Smith was also sealed to Brigham Young, and no one thinks of them as being married to each other. In most traditional Protestant traditions marriage ends at death. Marrying a widow is not considered infidelity, which is what you are claiming.

@ashlarxxx Год назад

@@brettmajeske3525 He wasn't only marrying widows. As described here in this video, Joseph married women who had husbands that were still alive. How long can you live with that lame excuse of their sealing being not really marriages? Are you saying that their temple sealing with Joseph Smith was not the 'Eternal Marriage' that you have now in your temples? So what type of sealing were those? Care to elaborate?

@bigdoghenry1441 Год назад

Heyyyyy I love y'all's show and has helped build my testimony. Messaging for the algorithm you guys are amazing.

@SaintsUnscripted Год назад

Thanks for watching! So happy to hear our videos have helped!

@awfulwaffle1341 Год назад

Plural Marriage is weird, but I think if we better understand the doctrine of sealing in general, things might make a lot more sense. The doctrine of sealing really deserves more attention.

@Irvingdector Год назад

I think we should start calling it “plural spiritual sealing”, no “plural marriage”. (Just in the case of Joseph Smith)

@courtneylimburg8541 3 месяца назад

What also needs attention is sealing of the women to Joseph who were also married to men who are not members. With what is done in the temples, couldn't they have waited to do the sealing AFTER that person passed and then have the sealing done?

@Irvingdector Год назад

Omg I believed the ex Mormons about this!!! They keep saying “Joseph Smith sent men on missions to marry their wives” ….. I wish I saw this before my faith crisis….😢

@StompMom5 10 месяцев назад

A faith crisis can always be healed😇🙏🤍. We've all had one at one time or other. Joseph Smith was ordered to take in plural marriage but having a wife who didn't agree with it, he was trying to please both God and wife. Most the women he was sealed to were MUCH OLDER than him... Few of them in their 60s. By being sealed to married women or much older women he was fulfilling his orders. But by doing so he chose women he couldn't have a relationship thus remaining loyal to his wife. When I'm not sure about something gospel related or even government related, I'm very careful choosing my source. Seeking council from anti about the gospel is like wanting to learn about Jesus from Judas who betrayed him or the Pharisees who hated him. Just something to keep in mind👍😊

@gordons-alive4940 3 месяца назад

He did marry other men's wives. Focusing on a detail like whether some of them were sent on missions first is kind of misdirection.

@Aaron-SLC 3 месяца назад

@@gordons-alive4940 yep

@austypebbles 11 дней назад

He’s a con man but just believe in the holy Bible why do you neeed the Book of Mormon

@alissong. Год назад

Not gonna lie, I just read Saints, and I was like, "Dude, they forgot to add the most interesting part to the book", jokes aside, very nice video 👍

@jaredite8388 Год назад

This topic was covered by the saints volume 1, but only briefly, and the reason is obvious, there is so little to go on with, if evidence is concerned, that no coherent narrative can be built from this. But the polygamy and it's various manifestations were covered briefly. These other cases would be gossip, that is impossible to restructure in history, that is factual, hence some of this interesting stuff had to be left out from the narrative, even if they are mentioned briefly.

@alissong. Год назад

@@jaredite8388 thanks for the answer brother!

@hrv4908 Год назад

Saints 2 covers polygamy a little more.

@Terminatorguy34 Год назад

It's perplexing that all these people are having problems with Joseph Smith and his polygamy yet they are fine with the fact that several generations of Adam and Eve's and Noah's children were in incestuous marriages.

@rhi6536 Год назад

Excellent factual report, thanks for your hard work on this topic it's more than appreciated.

@corradohess6100 Год назад

Thank you for all you teach and share about the scriptures. you guys are really great. Many thanks to the whole team. To every single one. May God bless you. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Greetings from Switzerland.

@edwardnigma8529 Год назад

Question: did the men know that Smith and their wives had been sealed together. Or did this occur without their knowledge or consent. Cause if they didn't know?????? Yikes.

@isaacerickson6312 Год назад

Some of your click bait can be misleading. Many will read "Joseph Smith Stealing Wives" and that is all they will remember because they did not watch the video. Be careful, Saints Unscripted. I love you guys. But remember, people don't always have the time or attention span.

@larryfrakous1332 Год назад

If you can’t watch a 6 minute video, you can’t read the BoM. But if you are mislead by the title, it may spark a conversation with a member of the church.

@mpaulm Год назад

Well that sums up our society. They form an opinion before they even look at the truth.

@SaintsUnscripted Год назад

We appreciate your concern Isaac and will take that into consideration for our upcoming episodes. Thanks for watching!

@isaacerickson6312 Год назад

Thanks. It is still a great video. Always quick and well researched.

@yellowyosh470 Год назад

I have come to know for myself that Joseph Smith was called of God just like Joseph, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Saul and David were from the old testament times. He was called and anointed to restore the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that is my personal testimony that I have come to. Polygamy is a topic that used to bother me a lot - after lots of prayer and study and pondering I have actually come to a lot better perspective on plural marriage in the historical sense (the doctrine - which wasn't exclusive to Joseph Smith it is also seen many times in the old testament patriarchs) in a doctrinal eternal sense it's still a concept both church history wise and biblically that seems somewhat paradoxical. What I do know is my experience gaining a testimony of Jesus Christ and then gaining a testimony of Joseph Smith. It was an incredible and undeniable moment for me - i'm grateful for that. Faith truly can work miracles and help you find the answers you seek. When it comes down to it - the answers i have gotten from God are so much more powerful then the questions I have gotten from man. In the end - I've made my decision on who I will trust in. And that is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He points a clear path and paints a clear way back to God - and I love him with all I have. He is the person I would like to turn to with all of these things - and when I have he always speaks peace. “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid” (John 14:26-27).

@LordDirus007 7 месяцев назад

Joseph Smith is in Hell Preaching his False Gospel in front of all he led there with the Demon Moroni directing him

@cyclingcotton3569 Год назад

What about Brigham Young?

@MrTikalvideo 5 месяцев назад

54 WIFES, There is a book best seller in the 70,s

@kimhunt9458 Год назад

So he still married married women, you’re just demonstrating that the men weren’t away on missions at the time? (Am I understanding this correctly?)

@johnvillaflor2723 Год назад

No bcoz your antagonist

@brettmajeske3525 Год назад

Being sealed is not necessarily marriage. Since it was pertaining to a future relationship in heaven, after all parties had died, the women would not have been married to two men at the same time. Since their previous marriages were only "until death do you part" so their mortal marriages would have ended.

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

At the beginning of the video he said he addresses plural marriage in another video. This video is specifically about topic in the headline.

@harryhenderson2479 Год назад

What matters here is Joseph Smith married other women. It’s up for debate whether they did so willingly or not. I lean towards some of the women, at least, were coerced into it. This would support the notion that Joseph Smith was a dirty rotten scoundrel.

@brettmajeske3525 Год назад

@@harryhenderson2479 Not much of a debate, since everyone of his plural wives who commented on it later in life claimed it to be voluntary. The point of this video is that critics of the LDS Church often make the claim that Joseph sent men on missions to marry their wives. There is no actually evidence of that ever happening, and plenty of evidence refuting that claim.

@zachcochran5738 Год назад

I mean those wives testified in court that he married them and even the church website admits between 30-40 women were likely his wives.

@zachcochran5738 Год назад

@WeaponX10 you can find them in the CES letter and the Temple Lot court case transcript that is available online. Just google either source, the Temple Lot transcript is the direct federal transcript of the entire case

@shireecox122 11 дней назад

Is it not true that their understanding of the sealing was different then than it is now. A sealing didn’t necessarily mean marriage back then, nor does it mean marriage now. To be sealed to someone is to bind us to Heavenly Father, the Kingdom of God. This is how I understand this issue. But what is somewhat confusing for me is, why weren’t the men also sealed to Joseph Smith? I realize some weren’t active at the time, but what about later on or at some other point? Anyway, it doesn’t affect my testimony. I realize things were different back then.

@adamcruz1407 Год назад

Awesome video! I love the explanation!

@thebrogrammer2077 Год назад

thanks for posting this!

@aaronsbyers 11 месяцев назад

If Orson Hyde self-selected to go on a mission, it would seem that the claim that Joseph Smith "sent him" would be refuted. A question I have is, was there an etiquette or social protocol before sealing women to men other than their husband? As in, the spouse would be consulted or at least notified that the sealing would occur? Just curious since none of this really happened in a bubble, especially in the small social community of the Church back in the day. Thanks!

@StompMom5 10 месяцев назад

Yes. Joseph Smith absolutely discussed sealing with the husbands. I took a class at BYU years ago that covered this very topic. I believe the men understood that Joseph Smith was trying to obey an order from God without "betraying" his wife who did not agree with it. He wanted to be sealed without having to deal with the physical relationship. Hope that made sense😊👍

@dr33776 7 месяцев назад

@StompMom5 got any sources to back that up?

@cumomsandcureloms Год назад

some people may see that headline and think the implied answer is yes

@tylerprice4415 Год назад

I have studied both sides of joseph smith heavily and have come to the conclusion that it would make more sense for joseph smith to be a prophet than to be the luckiest and most intelligent man to ever exist. That is the conclusion you are bound to come to if you study hard enough. Good luck!

@jpenir Год назад

What study did you do for the Joseph was not a Prophet side?

@TEAM__POSEID0N Год назад

This is a classic false-dichotomy logical fallacy. Obviously the possibilities are not limited to either (a) he was a genuine prophet or (b) he was the luckiest and most intelligent man to ever exist. In fact, both of those options are the LEAST plausible possibilities. There actually is zero credible evidence indicating that he was a genuine "prophet" (according to the commonly understood definition of that word in the biblical context). And I'm not aware of any reasonable analysis that would at all indicate that his accomplishments were ever of a quality consistent with being the "luckiest and most intelligent man to ever exist". This is pure "Emperor's New Clothes" type delusion. Even in its current polished, revised, edited, annotated and reformatted (to include numbered chapters and verses) version, the Book of Mormon is not an impressive work. If you look at the original 1830 version (i.e. the version that Joseph Smith actually produced with the aid of his various "scribes"), it's even less impressive, with cartoonish battle stories, hillbilly-like expressions, wholesale plagiarisms from the KJV Bible and reworked New Testament stories (such as the "dancing for a decapitation" story of the "daughter of Jared" (which is obviously copied from the story of Salome, who danced for the decapitation of John the Baptist). As anyone at Carthage can attest, Joe wasn't particularly lucky either.

@mikefoxtrot1314 Год назад

Given the facts that Joseph Smith was engaging in secret marriages with married women and teenagers, I’d probably call this issue moot, but it probably feels good for believers to call one of these criticisms inconclusive instead of just plain true, so who am I to take that away? Still, if someone were to believe that Joseph Smith’s plural marriages were sanctioned by god, what reasons should they have to believe that the plural marriages of Warren Jeffs and David Koresh were not?

@DW-ko4pd Год назад

Let's see...because one is a prophet and one is not.

@mikefoxtrot1314 Год назад

@@DW-ko4pd So, secret plural marriages with teenagers and already married women is only permissible for a prophet? Or did you have more criteria?

@JoneThePwn Год назад

It's a very common anti talking point and it is demonstrably false in nearly every case and inconclusive in all others. It's important that's It's discredited as a slur.

@mikefoxtrot1314 Год назад

@@JoneThePwn Isn’t marriage with underage girls a more unsavory act than stealing away consenting adult wives?

@zachcochran5738 Год назад

Even the church website admits 30-40 wives for Joseph smith so if you all disagree with that you are arguing against your own organization

@johnnyrarere Год назад

Believe it or not many people have left the Church based on unproven accusations of Josephs doings These videos you make would surely make them think twice about their conclusions

@zionmama150 Год назад

Amazing to me that too many people look at accusations and immediately believe the accusations. Hence, why so many false narratives are bought by society today. If people would just keep an open mind and ask questions and base beliefs on solid evidence and not just claims… 😏

@zionmama150 Год назад

@@mikkifrompreston4396 yeah, you never understand the doctrine when I speak with you. So 🤷‍♀️

@zionmama150 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 you have a lot of false narratives you have taken information from

@GMoney-B Год назад

Well, to be fair, a lot of these false claims that were taught as anti-mormon literature for many many years up until even recently on some facts or topics, have actually become to be accepted by the church as historical fact and doctrine. Such as Joseph smith getting revelation by looking into a top hat for translating the gold plates, often without even looking at the gold plates or the urim and thummim. As well as the first vision and Joseph Smith having 9 versions of it that were all different. I am and probably will always be continually searching for truth, and most likely will always go to church because I think the church in it's modern day form is a good thing for the soul and people to become better people, but there are some things that I just don't think I will be able to see or accept as true in the church with such large inconsistencies and contradictions. If anyone finds true happiness in a church/religion that brings them true joy and happiness, while not participating in anything harmful then I feel those church's/religions are a good thing on this earth.

@harryhenderson2479 Год назад

If only Zion Mama would keep an open mind and ask questions and base beliefs on solid evidence…🤣🤣🤣

@zionmama150 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 you’re taking on the role of the accuser. 🤷‍♀️ just accusations without solid proof. Same as what Satan did before this life

@edwardnigma8529 Год назад

Question: why was Lyon excommunicated?

@aritzlizarragaolascoaga6254 Год назад

Great job!

@mckenziemitchell6044 Год назад

I’ve needed this! Thank you!

@SaintsUnscripted Год назад

You're so welcome!

@Irvingdector Год назад

I NEEDED IT too!! I just wish I saw it before my faith crisis 😢

@LaundryFaerie 2 месяца назад

So here's the real question: why would a prophet of God choose to destroy these 14 women? D&C 132:41 seems to make things pretty clear. A man is allowed a plurality of wives, but a woman cannot have a plurality of husbands; if she tries it, the scripture says that she has committed adultery and will be destroyed. All these women had other husbands, but Joseph Smith was sealed to them anyway. He therefore caused them to commit adultery and they would have been destroyed by God himself as a consequence.

@robertanderson8458 Год назад

You make no mention that 2 wives wear a mother and daughter. Or the fact he married a girl age 14.

@alanbylund2659 Год назад

These examples are talked about in other videos. This video is specifically about the accusation of critics that Joseph sent men on missions in order to steal their wives.

@alanbylund2659 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 Accusations of iniquity are much different than actual iniquity. Just because the critics can come up with hundreds of accusations against Joseph Smith or the church does not make their case a strong one. You need to evaluate each accusation on its own merits. This video shows that these particular accusations are pretty baseless, just like all the others. Many weak arguments do not add up to a strong case.

@alanbylund2659 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 No. I am quite aware of the reality that Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage. And under Illinois law, Joseph Smith and the Saints were not guilty of a crime due to their private practice of plural marriage. In fact, the Illinois legislature would later alter their laws precisely because they feared that their current law would allow Mormon polygamy. Joseph Smith did not have a history of criminal behavior. He had a history of being accused of criminal behavior. There is a big difference. You have to separate the wild stories and rumors from the credible witnesses of the day. The peep stone incident did not result in a guilty verdict. Being arrested because you are accused of a crime is not the same thing as being convicted of a crime. It was not against the law to do what Joseph did with his seer stone. You need to consider that having such blind faith in your sources may allow you to be deceived. There is a lot more nuance with the bank story than you have been led to believe. If you have blind faith in his critics, Joseph was a perpetual liar. If you value truth and real history, you will find quite a different story. I have tested every testable truth claim I am aware of. Have you? If you think I've missed something, please walk me through one truth claim you feel you can prove to be false. I'd love that.

@alanbylund2659 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 All of your conclusions depend on the assumption that Joseph Smith was a liar and a con man in the first place. That is called a circular argument - a logical fallacy. You miss the fact that there are other explanations for the bare bones facts that are available to us. You assume that things his critics, like John C. Bennett, claimed were diamond truth and that anything contrary must be a lie to protect Joseph. You say we are claiming that human trafficking and adultery are okay as long as it is done in private. This is a straw man argument. The argument you posed was that plural marriage as practiced by Joseph Smith was immoral because it was against the law. I proved that it was not against the law. That is all. You need to admit that your claim was incorrect instead of pretending the claim was something different or show why my argument is wrong. My position is that Joseph’s practice of polygamy was not adultery or human trafficking or anything immoral. It was a commandment of God. He may have made mistakes along the way because God wanted him to figure some things out on his own, but that was God’s plan, not Joseph’s. Yes it is true that some of those present at the 1826 examination claimed Joseph was found guilty, but the article I’m linking here proves that this is not possible. Check it out and let me know what you think. www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2002/the-1826-trial-of-joseph-smith#en24 I don’t know what he could see in his seer stone. I don’t know how much of what he said was his interpretation of what was happening compared to what he saw or exactly what he saw. I believe that Joseph believed some things at that time that were not true. But that is not the bigger question. It is an irrelevant one. Why should it matter that Joseph believed in things that were not true?

@TJa2874 Год назад

@@alanbylund2659 your last question, why should it matter if JS believed in things that weren’t true? Umm because he was a prophet of god. A self proclaimed prophet of god. If he was the prophet, receiving revelation directly from god, he should not be being led to false beliefs. And please don’t use the argument he’s also a man and men makes mistakes. Or god gave us all agency, including the prophet. Is it too much to consider that he could’ve been a false prophet? Literally the entire church is based on the claims of one man - JS and JS alone. It’s not a stretch to consider he might have been conning people to suit his own narrative. And that can be said about all religion, because religion cannot be proven true, no matter how much you feel it is true. So it’s easy to con people when it’s only faith that you must rely on.

@Dandeeman26 Год назад

Well done to the point.

@Hala-ataa Год назад

Show me one single shred of contemporary, first hand evidence that Joseph practiced plural marriage. And when you can’t, I’ll show you 50 evidences that he did not, and that he in fact denied it, condemned it, and excommunicated others for it.

@jpenir Год назад

There is a literal mountain of evidence Joseph practiced Polygamy. The church acknowledges it. Richard Bushman (who wrote Rough Stone Rolling) acknowledges it. Brian Hales acknowledges it. Several of the wives wrote in depth about it. Some of the wives have signed affidavits about it. Some of the wives under oath in the Temple Lot case said they married Joseph and even had sexual relations with him (Emily Partridge). Even this channel which is an apologist channel admits it. To deny it now is sort of silly.

@Hala-ataa Год назад

@@jpenir Hales and his wife are NOT historians. We have to be clear about that. They apply zero principles of truth finding that any worthy historian would ever use. They are propaganda artists. They start with the premise that they believe first, then look for small evidences that support their own beliefs. They literally say things like “Though little to no evidence can be found for THIS wife, we know they were married.” In what world do we get to make a statement that we “know” something after stating there is no evidence? Only a world in which we desperately NEED polygamy to have been started by Joseph in order to justify our sect of Mormonism. If Joseph Smith went to trial today and was accused of polygamy, no court in America could convict him. That is a cold, hard fact ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F5heXE5xS5w.html Here’s a video that shows how Brigham young corrupted and “revised” the history of the church to fit his desires. You can see with your own eyes the things that were crossed out and added to. Joseph fought polygamy his entire ministry.

@Hala-ataa Год назад

@@thearchangelmichael777 I’ve read the scriptures my entire life. David and Solomon DID have many wives, “which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.” Joseph was not abominable before the Lord. Please point to one shred of evidence that he practiced it and I can demolish every claim you give.

@Terminatorguy34 Год назад

There were a number of Old Testament Prophets who had multiple wives, most notably Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. The Lord had commanded in ancient times as well as modern to practice polygamy.

@Hala-ataa Год назад

@@Terminatorguy34 they literally didn’t. Every single volume of scripture we believe in as Latter Day Saints records Abraham as having ONE son. The BoM, Old Testament, New Testament, D&C, and PoGP ALL list Isaac as Abraham’s ONLY BEGOTTEN son, in similitude of Christ and Heavenly Father. The narrative of Ishmael only appears once. So it’s a 5 to 1 ratio. We will disbelieve the 5 but believe the 1? We now KNOW because of the Dead Sea scrolls that the Deuteronomists in Lehi’s day were purging the scriptures and editing things. They threw away 93 Ephraimite books! That is when they invented the story of Hagar so they could justify their own sins. Do you really think Abraham, the righteous patriarch, would just throw his own son and wife into the wilderness to suffer or die? What a role model. Even if he did sleep with Hagar, there is zero evidence the Lord commanded it. We just assume He commanded it if Abraham did it. Isaac? Where do you get that? Only D&C 132 says anything about Isaac being polygamist. And we now know that that abhorrent section was created 9 years after Joseph was murdered. It’s a fraudulent revelation. Joseph NEVER received such a revelation. Jacob is the only one who I could see someone arguing for. But again, the scriptures were corrupted. And if he did marry both, he was literally tricked into it by their father. That’s not the same as God commanding it. But that’s a moot point. Because it didn’t happen. Moses?? There’s no evidence that the Cushite woman is different than Zipporah, or, if she was a different woman than her, was married to Moses at the same time as Zipporah. There was a 40 year gap between her and the Cushite woman. Zipporah was likely dead and Moses remarried. His “polygamy” is pure speculation. Entirely made up in our heads. Think about it. You need to raise up seed quickly (supposedly that’s when polygamy is commanded, right?) When, in your mind, does it make sense to do that? The beginning of the world maybe? Yet Adam and Eve were monogamous. How about when the earth was flooded and you need to start over? Noah had one wife. Noah’s sons ALL had one wife. How about when leaving Jerusalem to populate the Americas? Lehi had Sariah. That’s it. Joseph Smith had ZERO children outside of Emma. And many have been alleged offspring. Not ONE SINGLE evidence supports the claim that he slept with anyone else besides his beloved wife. Not one gift. Not one love letter. After 200 years we can’t find a single sign of affection from Joseph to anyone? He clearly did these things for Emma. God commanded to cling to your wife, singular, and NONE other. We need to really start examining the scriptures before we just spout off traditional rumors. I used to be in the same boat. But new evidence has entirely destroyed the idea that he married any woman but Emma. She did not lie when she said he never married anyone else. To his dying day, he preached against and excommunicated those who were caught guilty of this abomination.

@myskullwashere Год назад

well, i guess as long as consent is a part of this. its a little more okay. even then, polygamy should really be a no brainer kind of dirtiness that isn't right. it's honestly disgusting.

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

well...so is the act of gay men having sex, yet the vast population thinks it's A-okay.

@Terminatorguy34 Год назад

If you're going to condem a Prophet of God for a weakness, for a sin, even a certain sin, for doing something wicked before God called them to be a Prophet or even while they were a Prophet, you might as well condem every Prophet who has walked this earth. Being a Prophet of God does not mean you are exempt from weakness, sin or even the human condition. For every sin, mistake one Prophet had done, you'll end up finding a hundred others who did the same thing. Learning something like this, shouldn't bring disgust or sorrow in us, it should bring hope for ourselves, that even the Lords chosen Prophets make mistakes and are given more chances. This includes Joseph Smith, for every sin, mistake, weakness he had, a hundred Prophets before him in Biblical times are guilty of the same thing. The majority of Old Testament Prophets had multiple wives, most notably Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. Kind David and Solomon each had nearly a thousand wives and thousands of concubins (lower wives) and David was called favored of the Lord. If we're going to condem Joseph for marrying a 14 year old girl, who at that age were considered adults during that time period, we will have to condem Joseph the husband of Mary for marrying Mary when she was 15 and had convinced Jesus when she was 14. Many of us would have to condem our own ancestors as well.

@belindac7933 Год назад

Excelent answer

@jacbox3889 Год назад

I think Isaac only had one wife. Abraham was told by his wife to have a baby with her servant. Then he was told to get rid of them by his wife. Jacob was tricked by his father in law into marrying his older daughter first. Book of Mormon teaches that the Lord said what David and Solomon were doing was an abomination. So I think you are right that prophets are not perfect. Only Christ was perfect.

@JamesonWTF 4 месяца назад

Correct. And we DO condemn your ancestors as well.

@brendanwilsonvfx5705 Год назад

Thankyou is helpful to me

@Jjj53214 7 месяцев назад

You assume the sealing dates are legitimate. Smith’s so-called journal as written by Clayton has been altered.

@evanchurch3549 Год назад

Very well done. Interesting

@BlueJayBirdSaint Год назад

Great video.

@Corinthians-pp3jf Год назад

Joseph Smith was not a polygamist, and he didn’t steal anyone else’s wife. Now Brigham Young on the other hand, would’ve done it in a snap! Too sad he slapped Joseph’s name on a bunch of stuff Joseph didn’t do, just so Brigham could keep on with the polygamy. Slapping someone’s name on revelation/doctrine they fought so hard against in life is called direct fraud.

@savezelda Год назад

I suppose you must be a member of the reorganized church

@Benyan1763 Год назад

Umm,. even the LDS Church has finally admitted in its essays that Joseph did practice polygamy and polyandry based on the historical records. "Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates." "The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841. Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage." "Joseph Smith’s sealings to women already married may have been an early version of linking one family to another." The current documented count is somewhere around 40, with 10-12 being already married. Now, if you are in the reorganized church, well sorry, the facts don't change.

@jacbox3889 Год назад

@@savezelda Not necessarily, there seems to be a growing group of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint who are looking into Church history and finding that Joseph never taught plural marriage. He taught against it,

@savezelda Год назад

@@jacbox3889 All the statements by Brigham Young and others over the pulpit in general conference state otherwise. But to each his own. And I mean it's in the doctrine and covenants. Personally I don't have a problem with polygamy. And if you read the Bible neither does God. 😃

@jacbox3889 Год назад

@@savezelda The Bible talks about polygamy, but it is not commanded by God. In the Book of Mormon the Lord called it an abomination and a whoredom. Jacob called it a grosser crime and a greater iniquity. The first to take a second wife was Lamech in the book of Moses, who was a master mahan. He made covenants with Satan and was the father of abominations. I have a problem with polygamy.

@finnythomas460 3 месяца назад

Godly man gets sealed so many times... 😂😂😂😂... What kind of spirit was leading him?? .. Well tried defending Joseph uncle😂

@ATD1990 Год назад

God wouldn't want anyone anytime to have multiple wives

@lizkt Год назад

Old testament....

@jonp8782 Год назад

@@lizkt no. Men wanted, God didn't order that in old testament...

@johnvillaflor2723 Год назад

When did God say that???

@ATD1990 Год назад

@@lizkt a lot of things from the old testament were done away with when Jesus was on earth teaching

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

@@ATD1990 But if it was so forbidden, why did Yahweh of the Old Testament stop it?

@felixbaguio9987 6 месяцев назад

Polygamy Doc Chapter 132 Verse:61-62 Try to read this Doctrine Covenants Of Polygamy on the Bible

@dariusnekonam3421 7 месяцев назад

To be honest i think Joseph smith was the El guapo, or in English (sexy man). even the married women fell for him, it wasnot his fault 😅😅😅

@nae0067 Год назад

Joseph sent Sarah Ann Whitney’s brother Horace on a mission because he thought he would oppose. Makes me wonder how often missions were used to isolate women from protective fathers and brothers and husbands. Lucy Walkers father was on a mission. That along with Sarah Pratt story makes me think that he would use missions to remove husbands. However I think he preferred involving the men because then he knew he could trust them to keep it secret.

@lordofthedrumz Год назад

No, that was some church leaders after him. There is quite a history I've heard from Sanpete County, UT. Their official history has some crazy stuff in it. The real Joseph Smith Jr. had no need to marry any other woman beside Emma Hale. She was his only wife, though it is possible Joseph sealed others to him as daughters or whatever. He obviously didn't do it for the false loophole of Jacob 2, and he never received a revelation from God that threatened his or another's life. It is all folklore and framing to make the successor look more righteous than he really was. He would have looked more like Dr. Bennett or the Higbees if they didn't find a way to frame it on Joseph. The church is literally still standing on a house of priesthood cards in violation of the very principle prescribed in D&C 121:41.

@jpenir Год назад

Emily Partridge exact quote in the Temple Lot case. This is found on Brian Hales site if you want to confirm: Q. Had you roomed with him prior to … the night after you were married the last time? A. No sir, not roomed with him. Q. Well had you slept with him? A. Yes sir. Q. [Had you] slept with him … before the fourth of March 1843 [their marriage date]? A. No sir. … Q. Did you ever live with Joseph Smith after you were married to him after that first night that you roomed together? A. No sir. Emma knew that we were married to him, but she never allowed us to live with him. . . . Q. Do you make the declaration now that you ever roomed with him at any time? A. Yes sir. Q. Do you make the declaration that you ever slept with him in the same bed? A. Yes sir. Q. How many nights? A. One. Q. Only one night. A. Yes sir. Q. Then you only slept with him in the same bed one night? A. No sir. Q. Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith? A. Yes sir. Q. How many nights? A. I could not tell you. Q. Do you make the declaration that you ever slept with him but one night? A. Yes sir. Q. And that was the only time and place that you ever were in bed with him? A. No sir. Q. Were you in bed with him at any time before . . . you were married? A. No sir, not before I was married to him. I never was.

@lordofthedrumz Год назад

@@jpenir pulling a card 50 years late after she had already had a life tainted by polygamy after being married to Brigham Young the next year. How many people can really clearly recall a year of their life from 50 years back? I'm only 34, and I can hardly recall what details of what happened when I was 19. I can't even imagine what it will be like on another 35 years. This is an absolute house of cards. She had no problem with fertility in the house of BY, yet somehow with multiple encounters with another man she miraculously never got pregnant along with dozens of other women? There is nothing that can convince me that these words have any validity to them. While the judge couldn't refute the testimonies out of charity or better said sympathy, the spirit tells me that the "testimonies" of these women were heavily influenced and sculpted by the Brighamite culture and nearly a whole life of servitude to such a system of wifery. Without such a system and pinning it on Joseph, they lose their sustain of life and the church/authority of their husbands falls to the ground. There was a lot more than just a plot of ground at stake in this trial.

@jpenir Год назад

@@lordofthedrumz I'm 39 and I can recall extremely vivid memories of my first girlfriend at age 12. I can recall extremely vivid memories of my next girlfriend at 15. In terms of her not having a baby with Joseph, it doesn't surprise me. Brigham was able to be with these women out in the open while Joseph was not. Polygamy was illegal in IL and Emma's watchful eye kept Joseph from too many sexual encounters. To deny Joseph had multiple wives to deny the mountain of evidence that's out there. The LDS church admits Joseph's polygamy in the Gospel topics essays. Richard Bushman (a faithful LDS historian) admits it in Rough Stone Rolling. Brian Hales admits it. These women actually wrote first hand in their journals about it. There's the aforementioned Temple Lot case which you dismiss out of hand yet a lot of Mormon scholars use it as reference. Men say they actually married Joseph to these women. This VERY RU-vid page you are on which is an apologist channel admits it.

@jpenir Год назад

@@lordofthedrumzthis is directly from a LDS gospel topic essay"): " In Nauvoo, Joseph Smith married additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice was introduced carefully and incrementally, and participants vowed to keep their participation confidential, anticipating a time when husbands and wives could acknowledge one another publicly."

@lordofthedrumz Год назад

@@jpenir admission doesn't mean fact. I would bet that some of your vivid memories are factually incorrect. The vivid memories I have are not necessarily reliable. There is a mountain of evidence because of the need to support the church's claim to authority. They have committed identity theft on Joseph Smith. It was illegal and Joseph made it clear that he was against it. He was innocent. It was never a command from God but was in fact the key to infiltration of Zion and its downfall.

@itsnotjoshy3879 Год назад

Oh mann im early

@SusanDianeHowell 2 месяца назад

Doesn't phase the Muslims.

@jpenir Год назад

Joseph's MO was marrying women who were living with him or working with him at the time. Not only did he marry married women but also girls he was supposed to care for that were either orphaned or their fathers were away on missions. Viewed through a modern lense this is very predatory. Lucy Walker in particular. Also telling Zina Huntington that an angel with a sword commanded him to practice polygamy is quite sketchy.

@jacbox3889 Год назад

Was that Zina Huntington where that story came from? I think they called it "lying for the Lord".

@adriennaude1265 Год назад

This is worse than disgusting. This man marries woman married to other men, even had they been divorced just to marry him that in and of its self is a sin. Our Heavenly Father's word states very clearly that there can only be one reason for divorce and that is sexual immorality "Matthew 5 verse 32" What makes this disgusting is that so many in his faith know this yet still Herald him as a prophet of our Heavenly Father. He, himself, compared himself to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, he didn't even come close.

@johnvillaflor2723 Год назад

Lol, divorce i not necessary in plural marriage. Pls dont make a comment if you do not understand plural marriage.

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

Why do so many Christians embrace the Bible and all of it's prophets and teaching, yet, polygamy existed in the Old Testament. I've never heard an evangelical sermon denouncing the polygamy of ESAU (Gen 26:34; 28:6-9), JACOB (Gen 29:15-28), ELKANAH (1 Samuel 1:1-8), DAVID (1 Samuel 25:39-44; 2 SAMEUL 3:2-5; 5:13-16), and SOLOMON (1 Kings 11:1-3).

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 Well then, I think you better stay as far away from this church as you can! 🙂

@Irvingdector Год назад

I think we should stop calling it “marriages”. In the case of Joseph smith they were more like “spiritual sealings” to link families for the after life .

@Irvingdector Год назад

@@johnvillaflor2723 I think we should stop calling it “marriages”. In the case of Joseph smith they were more like “spiritual sealings” to link families for the after life.

@MerkieAE Год назад

so he did marry other mens wives, just not while they were on their mission? 😂😂 bro how are people buying this

@timneji Год назад

Missed the last episode I guess, this is building on the other one .

@sixtoherrera986 Месяц назад

Polygamy for bishops goes against scripture. Its the American version of Islam lol

@historicalperspective Год назад

How long can Mormonism survive in the age of the internet? My best guess is 169 years at most.

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

Because the Book of Mormon is true and there doesn't need to be any physical evidence of it. It is discerned spiritually and there will be plenty of members who have bright testimonies of the Book of Mormon. All this other stuff is just distractions.

@historicalperspective Год назад

@@davidfrey5654 fr, science is just a distraction from the truth: magic

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

@@gordianknot9595 What part of "It is discerned spiritually" did you not understand?

@harryhenderson2479 Год назад

@@davidfrey5654 Please think about the statement you just made. Not requiring any physical evidence? …oof.

@davidfrey5654 Год назад

@@harryhenderson2479 It's exactly as I said. I stand behind it. Even if you had physical evidence of the Book of Mormon sitting right in front of you, you still wouldn't believe it. Bias runs strong and deep.

@simon_carrick8198 Год назад

First lets go

@nicholast9910 9 месяцев назад

Lucinda Pendleton kind of bad too

@wtfschindler Год назад

Well there u have it -JS was a polygamist AND an adulterer but at least we know that none of the FOURTEEN husbands were actively serving missions so it’s all good.

@henrydells6864 Год назад

Dang we better go after Abraham too…

@timneji Год назад

Of course he was a polygamist, however I disagree in the adulterer part. Don’t see the big problem

@wtfschindler Год назад

@@henrydells6864 Abraham wasn’t an adulterer and polygamy was par for the course in the Old Testament.

@wtfschindler Год назад

@@timneji An adulterer by it’s very definition - these women were already married!

@adriennaude1265 Год назад

@@henrydells6864 Why did Abraham also go after other womans wives, not in the Bible I read.

@hollayevladimiroff131 Год назад

Yes, he was a polygamist. He married very young girls, fourteen-year-olds, he stole their innocents and deceived them by telling them that by marrying him, she would be exalted in heaven. Very sad. This is very strange that he married other men's wives, not in the bible, it is beyond crazy!! There is no reason for him marrying other men's wives, no reason stated, and there is no reason for polygamy, period!!

@justinprice8016 Год назад

People actually said it was Brigham Young that sent people on missions and not JS. So still JS was a cheater and not a revelation of God.

@SSJTITAN2099 Год назад

Whoever wrote the Bible, because nobody really knows who wrote it and Joseph Smith, and every prophet of the LDS church, including all religions are liars and they can’t really prove what they claim. Now people may take this and point out that you can’t prove god is not there. Well, here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter if there’s a god or not. Religion is still wrong, and the people who invented their religion. Are liars. If there is a God just say, if there is it’s not the way religion is putting it out but I do not believe in God, and do not intend to. basically, this is just a way for the latter-day Saints to justify what the past prophet has done

@timneji Год назад

Ok you don’t believe in God, fair enough, but what’s is the reason and meaning behind your comment?