Did the TURN BACK THE PENDULUM ARC Have the STRONGEST Gotei 13 in Bleach? | Discussion 

So, how does the Gotei 13 line-up of the Past Arc compare to the others we see in Bleach? We've already looked at the End of Series Gotei and the Soul Society Arc iteration previously, so now it's the time of Kisuke and Aizen! Does it stack up, or are there simply too many unknowns? Let me know your thoughts!

I love MrTommo's descent into outright calling the Vizards disappointments in his first impression. My man speaks TRUTH.

I just realized that by the end of the arc the soul society is at its weakest. They lost 6 captains in one day, 7 if you include the captain of the kido corps

This arc showed how extremely easy it is to frame, manipulate and control members of the gotei 13. It really isn’t that surprising when you look at the events of the soul society arc; it doesn’t take much to make soul reapers turn on eachother.

The closer to his prime Yamamoto the better it is for soul society. With him a century closer to his prime it helps a whole lot

I think without all of the scheming and betrayal, nearly every version of the Gotei would be a powerhouse if they could just work together for once 😂

It'd be interesting to see your perfect line up, choosing from all available characters from any time period shown

The greatest problem with evaluation of most versions of Gotei 13 is how you evaluate AIzen and co. E.g. in this version Aizen was a lieutenant seemingly with lieutenant's powers but in reality he was one of the top powers but also someone who was sabotaging the Gotei 13. Tosen and Ichimaru are similar cases.

Honestly, imagine if the Wandenreich attacked during Turn Back the Pendulum. A less restrained Yamamoto, Urahara and Aizen on a united front. Heck, Kurotsuchi is there too.

Kiganjo seems like the type to employ a literal servant as a 2nd seat rather than someone with actual power.

The vizard captains keep ending up as fodder for Kubo to showcase the current arc antagonist is a threat to the Gotei 13. Aizen, the Espada, and the Sternritter. If there is a Hell Arc, I fully expect the vizard captains will fill this role for a 4th time.

It's worth wondering how good they were at their divisions specific seireitei tasks. Like Kensei and Mashiro were NOT doin all that journalism business

6th division be running on that nepotism

Mr Tommo is the strongest.

I had completely forgotten the 10th Division captain died. All these years, I always assumed his absence was Isshin being spoiler-tagged.

Turn back the Pendulum is such an awesome arc. Loved it

Don't forget that the kido corps of this time has Tessai and Hachi and loses BOTH after this. Obviously we don't know anything about the officers of the kido corps in any of the other time periods, but I do think they are worth some consideration.

Captain tommo back at it with goated post's

There's a good argument for strongest, but doesn't necessarily mean most capable. Can't wait to watch

Love the channel. Keep it coming. 💯

Your diction is spectacular. Always making things sound fascinating

Even though we saw Maki Ichinose who greatly despised Zaraki Kenpachi for defeating Giganjo, it seems that his brief moment was simply erased away by Kubo who dismissed the Bounts arc as non-cannon.

I love when RU-vid suggests MrTommo's videos, even more when it just released

Well explained my friend

I just wanted to say thank MrTommo for keeping us all fed with all this Bleach content as we wait for core 3.

Your videos butter My biscuits thank you

Remember when Kubo said he'd reveal the secret of what happened to the 10th division captain from TBTP in the TYBW arc and then nothing came of it? Sure would like an answer on that.

Outside of the first Gotei 13, I would say yes.

Chojiro got done so criminally dirty.

One of the things I would want to see between the captains would be friendly competition. Like each captain have something they are known for, Mayuri would be brain, the deceased Komamura would be pure strength, Kenpachi would be destructive power. I would want them to have a competition excluding the head captain and maybe Mayuri to see who's stronger. that would push them to want to keep improving even tho they're already captains. Same would go for the vice-captains too.

9:22 I very much agree with you here. 2nd division seemed a good bit stronger in this era than in the soul society arc when we first met them.

I know he is a non-canon character only appearing in the anime, but perhaps Maki Ichinose was the 11th division Lieutenant, the wiki states that his position was unknown but seeing his reaction at the death of his Captain, I'd like to think he was the Lieutenant before being replaced by Yachiru.

If there ever is a Hell Arc, I really wish we get to see a full Shinji battle, where he doesn't explain to the enemy how sakanade works. If he just keeps his mouth shut, his enemy would have a harder chance to figure it out. He's already shown he can be really useful in support, as seen in the arrancar arc (where he stayed behind when all captains and vizards were going after Aizen, activating sakanade at the very last second when Hitsugaya stabbed "Aizen's" back) and in the novel when Hisagi was facing Tokinada (which was central in defeating the villain).

Something else I feel should be noted is that Kisuke at this time is not as good as the Kisuke later. The reason Kisuke is selected as he is for War Potential is because of his incalculable tricks. Being able to read the battlefield and successfully deduce where it could potentially head. The Kisuke of now is less level headed and less jaded. Which I believe play a major factor in his strength later. Affecting his decision making. This Kisuke is worried Hiyori was gonna get hurt. Later Kisuke sent kids, and even later, some best friends to their potential death and didn’t even bat an eye. Honestly, I’d place this Kisuke around Soul Society Mayuri.

One thing I love and hate about bleach is so many characters, all with great designs but so many potential power houses don't get to show off

Mr Tommo please make a video on Ichigo abilities and possible abilities... For example if he used tge cloth on Zangetsu... How in his Vasto Lorde form he used Telekinesis on Zangetsu zanpakuto

Have you thought about making a video about what the Gotei 13 might look like in 100 years or so? Presumably, most of the karakura gang would be dead and perhaps have become shinigami. Would this shake up the power structure in your opinion?

With a majority of the captains being the soon to be vizards during that time, I don't think so especially since they don't have good track record of victory. I mean Shinji meant be the only exception.

It still baffles me that Kubo did not make Love regain his position as Captain of Squad 7 after the events of TYBW. Don't get me wrong, I like Iba, he was pretty cool, for what little we saw of him, but the other three former Vizard Captains got their positions back and the only reason Love did not was that it was still occupied by Komamura. Even Lisa was made a Captain after TYBW, but not Love. Poor guy. Also, isn't it possible that Isshin was the Captain of Squad 10 back 100 years ago, even if we weren't told? Remember he is the uncle of Kaien, Kukaku and Ganju, so he's technically older then them, and would have been a captain for a while back when we first saw him as such.

I never understood why kubo did the vizards dirty.

I wonder how strong Byakuyas grandpa is

You should make more Toshiro vidoes

This Gotei 13 had Yourichi, Urahara, Aizen, Shunsui, Ukitake ,Yamamoto , unohana, Byakuya grandfather. The future Gotei 13 after TYBW arc has Kenpachi w/ bankai Byakuya-soul palace Renji-soul palace true bankai Rukia Shunsui, Soi fon, Hitsugaya-real bankai 3 vizards, Hisagi with a bankai

So I have a question some Captains/Lieutenants have very utility based shikai/bankai and of course Yoroichi who doesnt even use her zanpakuto. Its been stated that these releases have certain power multipliers so if they don't use these releases because their current fight doesnt fit that utility ie Shinji's bankai does that mean that they are capped at rhat current releases power level like would Shinji be able to fight with the same pool of power in Shikai as he would have in bankai?

Not sure if it can be said to be the strongest, but i think it can be said with certainty that this lineup had the strongest non captain class soul reapers. Filled with many future captain class soul reapers and including the 3 smartest bleach characters (aizen, kisuke, and mayuri). Aizen, chojiro, mayuri, even the visords seem much more competent than current lieutenants. Can’t remember off the top of my head if soifon, toshiro, tozen, and gin were in anywhere yet, but they were certainly in soul society (some with aizen).

10:40 In Spirits are Forever with You, he gets expanded more I think?

Without watching the video yet(i will watch) i say a strong NO, Tousen who did not was a lieutenant just a ranked officer one shoted 3 of the captains that became visored like they were nothing(fist kensei then love and rose+ 3 lieutenants), the kenpachi of that period was probably the weakest of the kenpachis, yes there were some strong captain yama, shunsui, ukitake, yourichi, unohana but the visored ones are week (sorry the only feat they have in the manga was killing some menos)

I would really love to see the Vizards doing their thing for ones. Just show their power and save the day...

If I’m not mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong here Captain Kiganjo’s lieutenant was Ichinose Maki, the guy who wanted to avenge his Captain’s death at the hands of Zaraki Kenpachi. And as for the current 10th Captain in the Turn Back the Pendulum I believe the Captaincy was vacant after Isshin Kurosaki’s disappearance in the World of the Living.

Hachigen being a complete beast sort of makes up for Kubo hating every other Vaizard. I don't think anyone else could have taken down Barragan.

I’m sorry but having Aizen and Kisuke on the same team makes this one the strongest AND most dangerous. They lift up the entire team. I have zero doubt that they’d come up with an unbeatable plan no matter who they were facing. They’re just cheat codes lol

Wonder if Soifon hadn’t made out of TTYBW arc if Yūshirō would had became the captain of 2nd Division

It’s definitely one of the strongest line ups out of the gotei 13

i'd say the strongest is as soon as Aizen is a captain, imagine if the quincies invaded 10 years earlier, that would had been fun, Yamamoto, Ain and Gin would own them then maybe use the chaos to become head captain, aizen would still be ambitious, though Byakuya's grandfather is a mystery we never saw him fight and if Yamamoto is over 1000 how old was he and its hard to believe illness killed him, maybe he retired to the cities of nobles, i forget if its mentioned he is dead, i never knew byakuya's father had artwork too, though maybe end of tybw is best

What about the Gotei just before it with Urahara as Yoruichi's 3rd seat and Hikifune as div 12 captain?

I'm curious, why do some shinigami aged and some don't? The show gave us a glimpse of how Renji and Kuchiki grow up, the same way we saw toshiro before he was scouted by Matsumoto. Why does Unohana doesn't grow old (physically) but Yamamoto did?

Wonder if this version of the goti 13 would do better in the first Quincy invasion than the current version

Aizen AND Urahara, so yes.

Me and my friend had a funny convo abou the quicies…the pun was …. They were checking up on the gotei 13 during the turn back pemdulum amd were like “hell no”

another asset to consider, the Kido Corps. yes, technically they aren't part of the Gotei 13 proper. however, they are under the direct command of Captain Commander Yamamoto. and since this version has no 10th division to speak of, i think it's fair to include them. so what does that do to the rankings? well, we got a core of some of the strongest Captains & lieutenants the Gotei have ever seen, a few of the most lackluster mid tiers, and a bunch of unknowns. ultimately, i think the power of the powerhouses is enough to overcome any weaknesses. and lets be honest: Kensei, Love, Rose, and Shinji aren't weak. they just fail to meet the high standards of the behemoths they have to compete with. but that doesn't make them weak. so, do i think this is the strongest version? mmm, it's hard to say. but yes. Kisuke, Mayuri, Yoruichi, Aizen, Tousen, Yamamoto, Chojiro, Unohana, Seinosuke, Shunsui, Lisa, Ukitake, Kaien, Ginrei (potentially), Iba (potentially), Marenoshin, Tessei, and Hachi. 18 of some of the heaviest hitters in the entire series... in all of anime, quite frankly. rounded off with the other Visoreds? yeah. i mean Zaraki & Hitsugaya only contribute so much. to me? this iteration was the strongest.

Having Urahara, Aizen and 100 year younger Yamamoto is just crazy, TURN BACK THE PENDULUM Gotei 13 is insane.

TBTP Gotei has the same issue of EOS Gotei, half of them are beasts, the other half low level, also there are many variable unknowns. For me, TBTP so far still can compete to be the strongest one, as by ignoring personal differences, plots and betrayals, this version could boast: Yamamoto, Unohana, Kyoraku, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Aizen, also Ginrei (supposed very experienced and powerfull), you have like 7-8 MONSTERS in the same team. Yeah, the other captains weren't great, 1 was dead, the Vizards without hollow powers were weaker than now (not that it matters, if they aren't allowed to use them anymore), also Kiganjo was trash. That said, speaking of the other members, yes, many are unknowns, Omeada's dad, Iba's mom, the father of Sentaro, but Sasakibe and Tosen were further bankai users, Kaien was there too, Seinosuke (Hanataro big bro) was really proficient with Kido, probably Byakuya's dad was good too, and then, not as lieutenants, but aside of little Soifon and little Gin, Mayuri and Komamura were already in as Gotei members (not as strong as present days, yet not weak).To me, only SS Gotei can compete, as 5 of those monsters were still present, and while Byakuya, Zaraki or Gin during SS arc wouldn't replace Yoruichi or Kisuke, overall this asset had better individual talents among the rest of captains and lieutentants. EOS Gotei has like 5 monsters again, some peak levels, also some of the strongest lieutenants, but over than a questionable half of the team, not have Yamamoto or Aizen anymore (over the rest) marks a clear difference, whether you want it or not. Personally, aside of OG Gotei, said to had been "the strongest formation" but that's to see, I would have been curios about SAFWY asset, around 250 years ago. Yamamoto, Unohana, Ginrei, Kyoraku and Ukitake surely as captains, too see the rest, but if we think, not only that chad of Kuruyashiki, even Hikifune should have been there, have two Zero Division potentials was... crazy.

I'd love if Isshin Shiba was the vice captain of squad 10 under the no name dead captain. Then, I'd agree this group is stronger than the group from the Soul Society arc. No doubt about it. Although I'd agree either way.

Wasn't there a character in the first filler (?), that was supposedly the vice-captain of Kiganju (tho Kiganju is unnamed and differently characterised, it feels worth mentioning nonetheless)?

it had kensei and rose so that brings them down a bit

In the chapters covering this arg they counted back from -108 to -93 (i think). Did Kubo irignally intended to vreat more flashback arcs to get to Zero and scrap them or what?

5:08 Regarding the 10th division... I'd wager good money the Vice Captain was Isshin, and that he became Captain sometime after TBTP but obviously before EBTR. Decent chance the Shibas used to be like the Shihoins and Kuchikis only with Squad 10 instead of Squads 2 and 6... In which case I'd argue there's a strong chance the dead Captain was Isshin's brother/Kaien, Kukaku, and Ganju's father. At least I think that more likely than another Shiba relative; Makes more sense to go Isshin's brother/Kaien, Kukaku, and Ganju's father, than it does, say, Isshin's father/Ichigo's grandfather, or someone more distant still.

I just feel like the old captains we know little about could be perfect enemies in the hell arc and we could have great bleach chapters if kubo could kubo.

Hot take! One of the vizard hollowfi in bleach part 3 TYBW!

In in regrds to Ginrei, he was able to resist Goga's abilities in the Zanpatuko Arc......yes, i know thats not cannon but i feel that sheds light on his overall power as he tries to expalin how Goga needs a strong heart and will power to control his powers, thus insinuating he(Ginrei) had to learn to control his own powers.....my2cents

This version has 6 monster captains and Aizen, but the rest is pretty lackluster. Especially third and ninth divisions.

Since the Vaizards aren't allowed to use their masks, I would say no.

Surely the group of captains a few years before this would be one place higher than this group given it has Hikifune and the 10th captain. I would think this version of Urahara is a bit less finessed in power.

RIP Retsu Yachiru Unohana🌺

I firmly believe the reason why kubo didnt revelead anything from squad 10 is because of Isshin... I think he was probably the vice captain and Matsumoto the 3rd seat. But since this time, he was still a mistery, he just killed the captain off screen so he woulkd not show anyone from the squad 100

What if the 10th Division Captain that died was Furuoki?

5:15 ain’t the 10th division captain isshin because isshin went to karakura and just saved masaki kurosaki and is in a gigai and they thought he was dead. but also the lieutenant is probably toshiro

Having Yamamoto, Yoruichi, Aizen, Shinji, Kaien, Lisa, Shunsui, Ukitake and Urahara definitely carries

They hyped Shinji to the max only for him to get Peter-rolled any chance they wrote him in a fight

Isn't it plausible that Isshin was the Vice Captain on the 10th squad during the turn back the pendulum arc. We don't know how old he really is.

Do we know where Ishiin is at all in this time? I would think he would be Vice Captain at least

Kuriyashiki actually brought up Ginrei and Yoruichi for being able to cut down a menos.

Gonna disagree on the Fifth Division, Momo is clearly much tougher than Shinji.

While we "can't" know, I think there's an argument to be made that Isshin would be nearing promotion to Captain of the 10th Division during TBTP. Hitsugaya has been Captain for around a decade or two and that still configures "recently promoted" in Shinigami terms. From the empty seat in TBTP and Isshin's exile in 1983, there's supposedly less than 80 years of time. Which is not a whole lot in the time scale of this series. It would be really something if Isshin wasn't around at least vice-captain or third seat level at that point in time. It doesn't help we don't know about his bankai, but as a fire-type, we can kinda guess it has a bit of an advantage over Hitsugaya's. Also, about Byakuya's grandfather, Ginrei... There's something weird in that. I might be getting my canons confused, but I'm almost positive that he is just retired and not dead. We don't get to see that often at all. Someone at captain level, that presumably has bankai, is still alive, and still isn't seen fighting at anyone point in the plot.

I do have to wonder how long it was between TBTP and Everything but the Rain when Isshin is the acting captain of the 10th division. Heck, when did Rangiku join the division, because she and Gin are the same age and Gin, despite being a child prodigy, was barely a third seat during TBTP

My theory white was the old 10th division captain

Yamato also had another arm here

The 2nd best flashback...I think they are

Well they didn't have 3 "traitors" as captains at least

Is Matsumoto the oldest vice captain at the end of tybw? I would just like an episode where kyoraku and Matsumoto go out drinking

Alot of the heavy hitters in thos line up arent heavy hitters yet. They are great cuz they been capt level for over 100 years

you did this last year. lmg its either gonna be SBTP or EBTR. the only 2 logical options sorry end of series Captains, yall dont cut it.

Matsumoto definitely isn’t the vice captain. Gin should be a similar age, and he’s still a little unseated kid at that point.

I will say one thing about your estimate of Kiganjo. Just because he lost to Kenpachi who would one day lose to Ichigo does not mean that Kenpachi was as weak as he was during the Soul Society arc vs Ichigo when he faced Kiganjo. Unohana makes clear that he subconsciously pulls himself back to his opponents level. Meaning that he would have held himself back to just about as strong as Kiganjo. Its not like Shikai Ichigo would easily take out Kenpachi Kiganjo. Hed probably lose because he wouldnt play around the way Kenpachi Zaraki did. Which gave Ichigo the opportunity to win in the first place vs Kenpachi.

Hiyori was slamming Ichigo before he got his mask in shikai, the same Ichigo that No diff’d 3 luitenants without his sword

Shinji and Aizen in the same squad definitely one of if not the strongest in the history of the gotei

Spicy take time! 🌶️ 🌶️🌶️ I think we've seen Aizen's Bankai, we just didnt know it. He's the only character smart enough to lie about this abilities lol

Hot take shinji only ever gets beaten so quickly by people because of plot armor for the enemies

Any Gotei 13 with Aizen as a Captain is the strongest .

"... the hidden power of his bankai..." (talking about Sasakibe). Still got destroyed by Icchigo in one hit during Soul Society. Sasakibe is a joke.