Dies To Removal Episode 17 - Throne Of Eldraine Casual Set Review - Magic: The Gathering 

These intro skits are consistently excellent.

They're ruthlessly mocking the old Skype podcasts.

To be fair Disney/Shrek just ripped off every fairy tail ever so trying to avoid some similarities to these tropes is nearly impossible.

"We lost Rosewater" I just died there XD.

In regards to the references being a bit too on the nose in Eldraine compared to Innistrad, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. innistrad had PLENTY of incredibly specific, blatant references. Delver is The Fly, there’s that Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde guy, there’s literally an entire faction of Frankenstein-alikes, etc. Eldraine just FEELS more obvious because the general population is much, much more familiar with the source material.

Sure Prof, you know it from Fantasia, but the Sorcerer's Apprentice is a poem by Goethe that every German kid learns in school. And in no way can that broom *only* be seen a reference to the Disney movie. Actually here's my German perspective: Most of the fairy tale elements don't feel _too_ disneyfied, except the pumpkin carriage. It's authentic enough.

I think the issue is Disney's monopoly on our perceptions of fairy tales in America.

I think it's OK to have a plane that we might not come back to. Not every book or movie needs a sequel or remake, we get enough of that. Sometimes it's nice to have something different that just stands by itself and is a fun detour before going back to the same old planes we keep seeing over and over, as good as those planes may be.

Planes don’t fly that fast. Clearly, Kenobi took the Great Henge.

“That card sucks, it dies to removal, Brian.” Well played.

That Rosewater article was a nightmare to figure out how everything actually works, to be sure.

I think Eldraine being overly whimsical, or cutesy-poo as you said, was a great idea as a palette cleanser. This is because the last few sets have been heavier and more grim in narrative, and WAR was a fairly grim set. Now, you don't need a cutesy palette cleanser just because WAR was grim, but next set is Theros underworld. The next set is going to have to be dark, grim, and gritty because it's a set based in Hell. Going from a set that was almost all inside references (Ravnica) to a set that was grim and inside references (WAR) to a srt that is also inside references and dark (Theros underworld) is a rough idea especially for new players. Having a whimsical set that a new player can grab and immediately know the references is a great way to break up and refresh before diving back into internal references and a grim setting.

I actually really love the cards and designs on Throne of Eldraine. There is a certain wonderful feeling I get when I understand the reference a card is making, and even though the references are pretty obvious in Throne of Eldraine, that feeling is still amazing. For example, when I saw that Gingerbrute couldn't be blocked by creatures unless they had haste, I felt so happy that they nailed the flavor because obviously you can't catch the Gingerbread man unless you are fast (and therefore have haste). The whole Cinderella cycle of cards is amazing as well and really brings me good and positive emotions. I'm a huge fan of this set and think Wizards crushed it!

You know, everybody doesn't like vampires. Some like dinosaurs, pirates and gingerbread men. I personally like that Wizards takes chances with set themes.

In the grim darkness of the future, there is only Ginger Brutes.

Whoohoo! A whole hour's worth of content from two of my favorite mtg creators, The Professor and the poor man's Saffron Olive.

I'm glad Kenobi is also concerned about the homogenization of commander. Signet is strictly better than the amulets and the diamonds, and it feels like it's taking away a lot of deckbuilding decisions.

Also, the lighting and audio levels on these videos are perfect. Kudos to the production team, whoever you may be!

13:06 - I get where you're going with the tone discussion here Prof, but we did just have Dominaria, Ravnica, Ravnica, Ravnica + Planeswalkers, & Modern Horizons (Time Spiral 2) to do just that. Dominaria helped bring all the old timers out & get them on Arena & 3 Ravnica sets got all the modern-era players engaged, War of the Spark + Arena drew in tons of new players, & then Modern Horizons + the Pauper overhaul gave everyone of every format tons of throwbacks to engage with. So, I think, this is actually a great time for a New Tone / IP since the playerbase is high & they do have that Theros / Zendikar / etc sets to look forward to to help keep them around.

I'm a new player as of core set 2020 and Eldraine is incredibly exciting to me, 100% because of the fairy tale cards. The "Arthurian" cards like Emry are also good, but the ones that are just "it a knight" do not interest me at all.

Wow, this is actually a huge surprise. I did not expect the Professor to have this kind of reaction to the Eldraine theme. As a former English professor, he should've studied Old English literature at some point, so I thought he would be more understanding of the actual fairy tales theme. I'm a creative writing major and everyone I've talked to about the set that isn't in the same field of me only saw the Disney references, while other English majors were knowledgeable about the original tales and saw through the pop-culture references. I absolutely love Eldraine, and it's actually bypassed Ravnica as my favorite plane. The Improbable Alliance combo and Royal Scions have been a nice complement to my Izzet deck, and after the sets leave Standard I may just have to adapt the deck for Modern to keep going with it.

“I don’t feel like Jace could walk around Eldraine.” Gooooooooooooood.

Can I just say that I actually love every bit of flavor they threw into this set. As stated, the Realms (the Authurian side of the story) were brilliantly applied into the Magic setting while still holding the flavor and tone of the legends. The Wilds (the Fairy Tale side) took themselves less seriously by allowing "one-off" cards to represent the stories and be more humorous. I think this set balanced these both perfectly. Magic tends to take itself to seriously sometimes I think, and this set did a good job at riding the lines between silly and believable while still paying proper homage to the sources of inspiration. I hope we get more "direct reference" cards like the "Shrek" card and the "Black Knight". When people think of Authurian stories or Fairy Tales, they also think of those things, and Magic should be able to represent those things and take itself less seriously. Basically, more squirrels in Magic!

Wizards have no excuse to not print good lands in commander precons, especially when they printed shock lands in the brawl decks

I never thought of "Delver of Secrets" as a reference to "The Fly" before watching this video. Now I see Eldrazi Horrors as a nod to "The Thing." (The one with Kurt Russell.)

you can't do fairy tales without SOMEONE thinking about the Disney version. A whole generation (the largest generation to date btw) of people grew up on/with Disney fairy tale films

Honestly I really like the lighter tone. Magic is a serious setting and all but endlessly dreary and grim cards and settings gets boring after a while.

I died when he started to describe Realm-Cloaked Giant to the Professor. XD

Ah yes, the perfect morning includes coffee and watching a new episode of Dies to Removal. Thanks, Prof for the amazing videos! Keep up the amazing work!

I found that the fairy tell reference and whimsical fun helps make the plain feel unique.

Great content as usual with you two; keep on being great! That said, since this is episode 17 and the issue still remains, I'll voice my one complaint: RAISE YOUR AUDIO LEVELS! I have to put my volume at max to hear you guys, and the moment a commercial comes on I'm deafened. Please, please, PLEASE increase the base volume of your audio mix. Thanks in advance (hopefully)!

Lorwyn/Shadowmoor best magic set for me. Going back is long overdue!

Wait. Is that John Wick by Bryan Lee O'Malley? I agree with your Ready Player One analogy. There was a long-running DC comic called Fables that did a really good job of not reminding you of Disney. Or Shrek. And they had the sort of dark angle you'd expect in MTG as well. I get the feeling that no one on the development team was familiar with it.

I think for me, as both a long time player and a lover of Disney, this sort of set makes me very happy. Yes, it's rather on the nose and there are quite few pop culture references, but it feels like a love letter to that.

See Vince brings up a good point about how unfair it is to compare sets like innistrad and lorwyn. They’re going for radicals different concepts than what Eldraine is up to. Disney hasn’t corner the market and embed alien/fantasy horror stories into us like they’ve done with other fairy tales and so were not looking so cynically at just as beaten down tropes.

Man I thought the intro with you two playing magic and he keeps infinite combining you out was perfect, but idk this might tie for a close second, god I couldn’t stop laughing haha

loving the propeller sound at the jet plane already.

Wow! This episode is a masterpiece! Amazing content and great takes while staying relevant to full playerbase (and great intro). Well done, guys! Looking forward to the next episodes :)

For the 7 dwarves, I would have done something like "Prisoner of castle lochtwain", it's still a red dwarf, and you can have 7 of them. Can even keep the same ability, and the flavour text is something like "To the last, the brothers stood together, refusing all of Ayara demands. They would never give her up to the queen". It's still the 7 dwarves, but this time the wicked queen just locked them up, it works with Ayara personality and the setting.

Coming back after 2 years… I still love this set. Everything about it was just a perfect callback to the two worlds I grew up with being German and English growing up in the US.

Lol, just noticed the propeller sounds on your jet plane, nice touch :P

I think when it came to the flavour of Throne of Eldraine it got split down the middle. Sometimes it was wonderfully crafted and illustrated a world that felt as natural as Magic's all-star fan favourite settings which paid homage to the "source material" while adding its own twist (Gingerbrute, Piper of the Swarm, Wishful Merfolk, Clackbridge Troll were standouts) The other times it just felt like a box was being ticked and like nothing unique was being done (most of the Beanstalk-related cards, Lovestruck Beast, Enchanted Carriage). It felt very much "here's the thing from the piece of media you like!" instead of "here's our take on a popular image". This is why Innistrad was so beloved: it paid homage to the vampires and werewolves and things that went bump in the night, but they were Magic's own things that went bump in the night. Yes, Delver of Secrets was a reference to The Fly, but the setting and flavour text made it feel distinctly different. They didn't have a card for Count Dracula or Van Helsing or Nosferatu: they had their own takes on them with the rival vampire bloodlines and the Lunarch Council. Eldraine doesn't make that distinction anywhere near as well a lot of the time.

I'm a brand new player and this set is what brought me to the game. The lighter theme made me feel more comfortable learning the game and even made losing early on not as hard to take because the theme was funny. I even bought me first boxes to build some of my own silly decks and see what they can do. I love it. As a new player, I don't really know the previous themes or the backstories, but knowing a decent amount about fairy tales and the like has made it easy for me to learn the cards as well. I know what enchanted sleep does right away and can recognize it immediately as a new player. The same goes for frogify, seven dwarves, the gingerbrute, etc; all of them are things I'm familiar with from fairytales and knowing what their tales are has helped me greatly to remember what the cards do. I tried playing some of the War of the Spark decks and, while I was able to play them, the learning curve did seem a little steeper just because of how much I had to read and re-read the cards.

I'm a relatively new magic player, and I love all the references. I know next to nothing about the lore of any other sets, so I don't really have something to compare it to, but as a very casual player I can definitely say that the reference stuff makes me more excited about this set

Great review so far. Just wanted to comment - those chairs look super comfy.

Damn, you and Vince always kill it with the intros. Awesome stuff. On top of the entertainment value, I love the frank and reasonable discussion between two adult human beings that don't always agree.

I love the back and forth these to have its fantastic

These sketches are my favorite thing on RU-vid these days.

We likely have no idea what goes into getting these two lads in the same room together to bring us this incredible show. Long live DTR!

I thoroughly appreciate how you're both comfy in your socks.

A arcane signet is in fact in the collectors boosters I saw someone open open one last night at our lgs

This set is just beautiful, even was gifted some collectors boosters, beautiful cards with the alt art borders!

I love all the references/flavor, and it does not bother me one bit. I like that they went the extra mile in this set, I mean it def is the place to do it. I'm sure the next sets will not have so many references to pop culture/ famous stories, so hang in there.

Fave discussion series!

I was hoping another one would come out soon!!

I'm relatively very very new to magic and this is my absolute favorite set that I have seen so far. I think the flavor/art etc. is incredible. I don't think it's to appeal to kids either really.

Thanks for all the amazing shows.

Sylvester McCoy's Doctor was also called "Professor", by his companion Ace.

Amazing, just noticed they also love colorful silly socks! Nice!

Hey, about the brawl decks, although rarity doesnt really matter for brawl and commander decks in paper, the rairities are super relevant for arena, the arcane sig and command tower are both common so they are basically free, the commanders are gona be rare wildcards only so that will hurt though.

I love this because you both make strong points.

While the set’s flavour hasn’t really struck with me as much as other sets - the quality of the cards for cube due to the new adventure mechanic (at least at uncommon, rare/mythic level) - it’s really opened up how we can build and utilise these cards to improve the overall power level. I guess the hardest question to answer is how on earth we are supposed to afford the alternate artwork to “pimp” them out!

The set is like old Grimm Brothers fairy tales, but it’s Magic the Gathering! Such a breakthrough for R&D and I really hope they continue with these mind blowing innovations! Loveeeeee it! So fun!

I like the format of chatting about interesting cards, letting things kinda flow naturally rather than stepping from card to card. As far as the intro discussion about the set themeing and tie-ins to Disney. I feel like the biggest shortfall is that there isn't as obvious a cohesive story running through Eldraine as there was with Innestrad, War of the Spark, etc. It feels like some kinda spoof movie of a compilation of references, rather than stuff that fits into a distinct setting based on fairy tales and chivalric and courtly legends. That said, spoof movies are popular, and I agree with Kenobi here in that because of how broadly integrated these are, they're some of the must accessible jokes you could possibly make.

I feel the same about ELD flavor, although my beef tends towards the sillier cards like gingerbrute or the pumpkin carriage (although I'm all for those cute white mice tokens) and I'm not super bothered by the Monty Python reference. The Arthurian part with the courts was really well executed and compelling to me and I really hope we get to see more of the Wilds in the next visit. I just can't help but imagine how out of place Will and Rowan will feel in other planes. "Do you not have gingerbread houses and sentient candy??". I wish stuff like that would be saved for Un-sets.

Ok... the flavour is based on the Brothers Grimm Tales and I totally love this, the Grimms were there before Disney...here in Germany wem love the flavour because it reminds us on the times as we were children and got to read the original storys. And rest of this flavour is influanced by nordic folklore, Shakespeare, and Knight stories of the 50s. I personally like the flavour very very much. on my second or third place after Innistrad. Lorwyn even was based after Gaelic Storys from Ireland and Scottland.

Love the podcast, keep it up. Only wish they talked about how Innistrad and Eldraine compared to Theros in terms of references

Re: Spyglass - I would have much preferred Pithing Needle + Trinket Mage in M20 to this here; Trinket Mage is such a fun build-around card that can spawn an archetype if things go well, or just let you put some silver bullets in if things go poorly. Besides, the core set is the place for cards you want to have some reasonable expectation of not rotating from... though sadly M20 didn't quite live up to this standard, replacing most of the cards from M19 for little benefit to standard.

6:40 incredibly good point. Innistrad was much more restrained and as a result is incredibly well beloved.

I severely doubt we're getting the "good" fetches in zendikar. R&d has stated over and over that they were a mistake in modern and that 1-2 okay fetches are about as far as they're willing to go in standard.

finally a dies to removal chapter, was about time guys

Throne featured my favorite artwork for lands, hands down

I don't get how throne of eldraine is different to innistrad. The only difference is the source material for eldraine is WAY more well known. Yes the set has a Monty Python card, Innistrad has a "The Fly" card. I don't see a difference in those references. Every card in Innistrad is based on horror media, every card in Throne of Eldraine is based on Fairytale media. It's not the design teams fault that Disney has such a monopoly on fairytales that their versions are indistinguishable from the Grimm originals.

I absolutely love the references and "shrek-ness" of the set, I honestly think it's going to quickly become one of my favorite sets - though that's probably because I started in Theros (Return to Theros when? I need more enchantment creatures). It could also act as a bridge for the less nerdy population, because it's a familiar popular-culture world and doesn't require any time investment to understand the general lore.

The white card with the "new effect" is Happily Ever After making each player draw a card. I know, I didn't think that felt like a new effect either, especially given the card it's on.

This set will sell amazingly well, as the people who are put off by the flavour are few, and the power level in the set is so high that even those few will purchase singles and boxes if they want to play competitive standard or modern. Those that dont are missing out on some amazingly powerful pieces for numerous archetypes.

I would also have an Interesting suggestion for MTG development, We seen how Ravnica could be brought into the D&D universe so for what could technically be called a Block lets introduce a little D&D into Magic the Gathering. Think about it. Commander Card = Your character Class - Instead of a legendary card you have class cards Nemesis Player = DM - If playing group that can be allowed in a party mode to explore areas and dungeons and such. Planechase/Land Card = Dungeon Tiles sets/World cards- Each player builds the world and landscape as they go with legendary locations like lets say Baulder's Gate having the requirements of having specific lands - It would be nice if these could be double used to create a battlemap for regular D&D as well. Spells are able to be cast for Land costs with Dice roll modifiers aka Fireball = Roll a coin(1-2)-D20 depending on mana spent for damage you can expend you can divide up the damage any way you choose spending 1 point of damage per target. Creatures you can summon would be similar with a roll mechanic for hit points or damage attribute so you are no longer bound to paying 2 mana for a 2/2 instead you might end up with a 1/4, it introduces a mechanic that allows a little luck and a small amount of unpredictability to be present so you can do a few more wild things. Its a little restrictive due to Dice being available, Coin for 1-2, D4, D6, D8, D10, D20 but it also allows for limitations as well, Counterspells would be fun as hell rolling D20's to see if a spell is countered or not or stronger counterspells allow a disadvantage for the opponent.

44:30 - You say you'd be disappointed, but no lie, if the new Zendikar comes with a common cycle of mono-color fetches I'd be so happy. Like, one that just fetches "an island" and that's it (maybe it comes in tapped unless you pay 1 life, just for some slight differentiation). It would be better for Standard imo too, since it wouldn't make color fixing an absolute non-issue like dual fetches with shocks would, but would still provide a lot of versitility. (also, I really want an island with a force spike on it)

Re: Zendikar - I'd like Fetchlands here, as they alone would sell the (2?) sets. I wouldn't mind Prismatic Vista in a 3rd Zendikar set for a pseudo-block, as well as a cycle of fetchable (CIPT) legendary lands.

Thank you Kenobi for helping me work out the words for why Arcane Signet and Prismatic Vista are problematic to me. Said that to my playgroup and they all just looked at me funny saying "It's just another staple."...

Good discussion. On the one hand I agree that some of the cards are a little on the nose. On the other hand, the flavor is perfectly seasoned to tap into the Disney market. Literally just describing it to my ex had her asking "Why are you telling me about this awesome thing right after I quit my job to go back to school?" when previously she had no interest in magic at all.

28:10 I love that card I cast golden egg out of the graveyard something like 15 times in a single game in my first ELD draft. I get card drawing life and so on from it. Unfortunately the rest of my deck kind of sucked so...

The changing of names for special edition prints or sets reminds me of preordering a video game. The size of the chart needed to decide where to pre-order the next call of duty game, what store has what bonuses and when. It's all an attempt to confuse the customer pieces, to make people more susceptible to purchasing products they don't want by mistake

42:50 began one of the most entertaining moments of my week 😂

Finaly there are Knights that look like Knights. Im very pleased about that. There is also a strong germanic part of the Cardbackround i also liked a lot in the Innistrad setting.

Honestly, this whole Disney thing makes me extremely mad. I really like the original Grimm's fairy tales. I'm german, I grew up with them - and I generally dislike the Disney versions, since they tend to remove a lot of the original themes to make the stories more kid friendly. That being said, I don't think the fairy tale cards look too Disney-ish. With some, I feel like extra care went into avoiding the Disney look (like for example the Lovestruck Beast having antlers, I really enjoyed that detail). With others, I feel like WotC purposefully tried to go for a darker route than the popular, child-friendly versions. My personal favorite flavor-wiser is Piper of the Swarm. Not only does it tell the entire story of the Pied Piper in one card, but it also doesn't shy away from the really dark and morbid parts of that story. I honestly was really afraid that this set would feel very Disney- or Shrek-ish, as someone who dislikes these versions of fairy tales, and I don't think it's that. I think WotC hit the sweet spot with a lot of these cards, although some of them do feel like they were g oing off a checklist "ok, we need the cinderella cards, the snow white cards, the rapunzel card..." - I kinda feel like especially these typical "princess in peril" fairytales could have been handled with a little more generic magic flavor rather than copying the story 1:1. Glass Slipper really feels like a weird card, for example.

"Reading is for nerds" says the man debating the competitive impact of new cards in Magic lol

Looking back from 2020 at this and not seeing Oko mentioned 👀

Prof, many Magic the Gathering players and followers of your channel ask the question: How will Throne of Eldraine affect the Pauper metagame, now that all cards have been revealed? Will it be the subject of a future video? I'm looking forward to it!

I’m here in 2023, three years later getting hyped for Wilds of Eldraine. It’s so interesting to see how scandalous Throne of Eldraine was. I was on hiatus when it released, but absolutely loved it when I came back. If they though Throne of Eldraine was watered down to appease the masses, man, if only they knew about Strixhaven at the time.

My favorite MTG set has to be Innistrad. The gothic horror setting, the art, and the story of the place was amazing! As far as the references of Eldraine, I absolutely love them! It made me smile going through the cards trying to remember the legends of each one. Plus the new mechanics will be fun. Oh, and the art is some of my favorite to date!

Loved the cool looney tunes entry touch! Very cool!

Eldraine was my first set and I loved it

I share the prof's opinion of, "I could see Jace walking around on Innistrad but not Eldraine", in terms of tone and theme. Looking at the showcase cards Im reminded of Rhystic Studies card frame video, mainly the feeling of, "This is not a Magic card."

Fuck yes theros! My first set always felt so recent, so excited to go back

Prof, even though questing beast prevents combat damage prevention, true name nemesis still can’t be blocked if it attacks you.

I can easily see going back to Eldraine. We had no problem going back to Innistrad, which was super ultra hyper blatant in how it was ripping off shit in the exact same way Eldraine is.

Dear Tolarian Professor, I started playing Magic the Gathering in 1994. I played Everquest, and sold items on Playerauctions.com, to purchase my MTG. I made so much money off of Fungi Tunics, that I was able to buy out our B Dalton bookstore each time they restocked. Nobody at the time seemed to care. I didn't have to rush to get the product. This continued for quite some time until the start of the Urza's Block. This was when I went to college, and I decided "Hey, I won't play this game again, let's sell." And so, I did. I made a huge sum of money; I was never ready to really "part" with this collection unless I got somewhere near what it was worth. Guess the joke was on me, as I had a full 9 sleeve, both sides, of Lions Eye Diamonds. Plus some were behind them, at the time I just didn't deem it as being *good* (I still don't). I had pages of unlimited, two full sets of tempest, a lot of moderate play beta, unlimited, and a bunch of randoms. I also competed in a local tournament of 6 packs sealed Tempest / Stronghold for a heavy play Unlimited Black Lotus. This had a huge following of about 185 entrants, unheard of at the time. People drove up from Downstate Michigan, Ohio, Canada, and elsewhere, to compete. I opened my packs, and saw a strong white/red weenie deck that I had to play. I made it to the final table, after so many rounds. I talked to my opponent and he seemed ready to go, mentioning his lucky pulls. My opponent got two Scroll Racks, two Sliver Queens and two time warps. I had him to 5 life in our first match and then he exploded with a back to back time warp. Our second game, he go the Queens out early and a bunch of little slivers. I did what I could but at this point realized I was done for. I hope that he still has that beautiful Lotus in his collection. I put all that money into a hollowed out book when I went to college, knowing that the money would still be there. I didn't want to squander the money on liquor, girls, gambling and other fun things that don't let you retire. Well, I found out about two years after this fact that the book was put in a garage sale or something, and no longer existed. So, somebody profited about $20,000 not including signed baseball cards by Mickey Mantle and other craziness. I was bitter for a little bit, but the more I thought about it, maybe I helped somebody else get their shit started.' The morale of my story is; everyone has an introductory point to everything. MTG helped me a lot, by giving me an escape when I needed it and he huge serotonin boost when you need it. Long Live Magic the Gathering! IN CARDBOARD RECTANGLES!!!!!! We as players cannot showcase our foils or get the same boost otherwise.

I think Eldraine is defiantly going to appeal to new players, it's got a broad appeal that will catch the eye of people that haven't jumped in yet. I've explained the set to a few non-magic players and they've been interested. If you tell someone they're bringing back the eldrazi they won't know what you're taking about but if you tell someone there's a Monty Python reference they get it.

Yes, yes RU-vid I like this keep then coming....