Dionysus: Standing up to Shiva | Ancient Greece Revisited 

Beautiful and inspiring. Hail Dionysus/ Shiva!

its good that the West rediscovers its polytheistic heritage and roots. the difference with the religion of Shiva and India though is that its a living religion. The Gods and Goddesses are worshipped by a billion people, they are a presence in the daily lives of people, in the way that the Gods of Greece used to be thousands of years ago. Christianity took over, monotheism prevailed, but that didn't happen in the east

The “talk back” is actually the Shakti(feminine/creative) or symbolically represented with the ring of fire around Shiva/Void/“that - which is not”). Thank you for helping me understand another side of the ancient Greek Dionysian! Love these conversations on myth & symbol and think more discussion is key for us all.

I came after seeing your chat with lord Jive. The way you weave these webs and tie the ancient to the modern is truly great, along with your style and production. Thank you for bringing such content to English speakers. I had to subscribe.

Kali Yuga is where we are. As if there is a feeling that there lies a great truth under the blanket of ignorance.

Another marvelous video Michael, I truly loved it! Tragedy is one of the greatest accomplishments of the ancient Greeks and I’m glad you took the time to speak of it in such an elucidating way; connecting it to Hinduism, the hippie movement, the cosmos, eternity, individuality, and death. Bravo!

Om Namah Shivaya

Man, what a youtube channel this is. Please keep it up!

I think this is one of the best episodes of AGR: You gave a very interesting and explicit explanation of 'the birth of tragedy' putting together into a synthetic approach an entire library of references to it. Bravi!

Lord shiva is not only the god of dance Shiva is also protector of all flora and fauna Shiva is also the god of death God of yoga and spirituality God of everything that cant b observed by 5 scences

I wish this video lasted one full hour. Such an interesting concept, and so well presented.

A slight gratitude for Shiva, for Dionysus could be reconstructed again. Now, we can embrace both with all our spiritual senses.

I had not encountered the story of Thespis before; although one thing I would observe - Indo-European religious ritual is often, itself, a dramatic performance; and which features singing and performative actions, a beat and musical accompaniment. Why this is relevant is because these are also often characterized by an individual participant taking on the 'mantle', some of the 'essence' of a particular character from the mythology in their course. This is something that, as I say, often features an individual bearing the essence, taking on the 'role' (in the ritual re-enactment) of a specific figure - rather than part of a generalized 'chorus' (although *that* notion is certainly *also* present - a recent piece of mine looked at a rather .. resonant structure, in fact) It is not hard to see how the Greek approach to drama might have substantively carried forward this tradition - albeit transforming it in a way, so that even though performances of plays *were* often part of a ritual context [I am thinking here in particular of the 'Great Dionysia' of Athens - which goes rather beyond what people might think if we say 'a comedy-writers' competition' , and not least because the God Himself was in attendance watching], there is something rather different in the mechanism of action: The more 'purely' ritualine performance, its mechanism of action is metaphysical - it re-immanentizes out into the world some emanation of the original events, original benefits and outcomes secured via the original participants' mighty (indeed, literally Mythic-caliber) deeds. The 'dramatic' performance, meanwhile, whilst quite potentially still drawing from the aforementioned, has as its prime mechanism of action the direct influencing of the audience. Aristophanes' excellent play The Frogs, for instance - while it *references* the Katabatic journeys of Herakles & Dionysus, and the necessity of 'bringing back the past' and the wisdom of the forebears even (especially!) amidst more contemporary and dire crises ... its primary way to do this is to present to a watching audience, stirring rhetoric and creative conceptual explication through audible means. It wouldn't be nearly so effective at it if there wasn't already a deep and deeply, richly resonant mythic sphere for both playwright and audience to draw from in the course of engaging with the play, of course - but even though it allows people to engage with the mythic in a way (as an audience), it still feels rather different to the more purely 'mythic-participationary' / 'eternal return' style performances (where the 'audience', such as it is, to be influenced - is Reality itself) So, perhaps it might be said that this Thespis character - the innovation he might be regarded as introducing (apparently, in-line with something Aristotle may have recorded around the figure being responsible for adding the Prologos etc.) would be that of speaking to the audience. The human audience, I mean. Paradoxically, therefore, the performance goes from a ritual that is performed for 'eternity', the cosmos (broadly speaking), to one that is (also) for a terrestrial, sidereal, and temporal human audience. Which is, itself, an interesting and not unremarkable movement. Some might say that it would be a trajectory that would eventually bring us heavily de-sacralized if not outright mindless 'entertainment' - Gods turned into "superheroes" played by actors in Marvel films for 'blockbuster' profiteering and record-breaking ticket-sales in lieu of quality let alone accuracy and any hint of the supernal only really present in purloined grandeur and residual mental associations. That's ... perhaps not entirely untrue - but is very definitely seeing only the negative. I would prefer to think of it in entirely different tones & terms - namely, that of making mythic belief far more broadly accessible, bringing another shade of beauty more approachably into the world, and providing a further sphere within which persons may engage with such and hopefully become improved in fairly direct consequence. That is to say - it represents a potent vector for the (re-)enchantment of the world ; even if some unfortunate fashions and scriptwriting in recent times has seemingly sought to misuse it to propel the opposite. [-C.A.R.]

Well, hot damn. This is the most fascinating lesson in comparative religion I've received in quite a long time.

ΤΡΟΜΕΡΟ κανάλι, πραγματικά συγχαρητήρια, οι λήψεις και το editing είναι σε επιπέδο τηλεοπτικού ντοκιμαντέρ και τέλεια αγγλική προφορά για απήχηση σε ευρύτερο κοινό. Πραγματικά σας αξίζουν πολύ περισσότερα views. Οι προγονοί μας θα ήταν περήφανοι. Είδα τα περισσότερα βίντεο σε ένα βράδυ όταν σας ανακάλυψα.

This is beautiful. I feel like I just discovered a treasure. Happily subbed!

I came of age in the 60's, but never did I embrace the eastern imagery. Shiva was part of the mythology of a very alien culture and way of understanding things. At the time I was a Canadian and Shiva never spoke to me in the same way as Dionysus. I entered college as a fine arts major and this was what introduced me to the Greek plays. These were stories to which I could, and still do, relate. These were stories of passions and realities upon which fate played her games. I spent two years hitch hiking and living on the road, before settling down and completing a degree in the sciences. The nature of man, as I see it, is far closer the Greek understanding of Dionysus than it is of Shiva. In my living room I have a bust of Appolo and of Dionysus reminding me daily of this fact, but then, I am a westerner.

Thespius: “okay, cool, but what if I don’t want my ego to die?” The Buddha, every-time one pops up: “Oh! Jump in the pool already! The water is fine! Scaredy cat!”

Wonderful Story and Very Well Done! Thank You

You're describing an experience I had, after chanting The Jesus Prayer for some hours. I felt like I was literally outside of myself, sort of above and behind, but, at the same time, I think, I never left the body. Something happened, on a spiritual level, with the locus of the "I". This mind-body mechanism continued to go about its business, like the whole thing was just a movie playing out; a river of celluloid passing under a lamp and a lens. The biological and cultural programing was all "I" had to work with, so to speak. But what had been a more rigid constellation of associations, between points of light, seemed to shatter, like ice crystals, then, to melt and pool and resurrect. While it was the same constellation as before, somehow, it was not so confining to me as it had been. As with the body, I seemed to overlook the connections in my own mind's experience, so that every point of data was now directly related to every other point; or, at any rate, if I could not anticipate every relation, nonetheless, I was poignantly impressed with the sense of my mental apparatus as a unity, in which the available information would surface, or find its way, through chain reactions; it was only a matter of time. The process could not be accelerated; but, at this point, it could be recognized; accepted. No longer was I so personally identified with those chemical and metaphysical reactions, like a pinball in my own mind, but, rather, I dispassionately "knew what I knew". My assumptions were all provisional, and I knew (i.e. assumed) that they did not need to be more, or other, than they were, in fact. The only possible associations between ideas were still just taking place, automatically, including doubts, reconfigurations, and deconstructions; as this "I" was felt by the body to be nothing but an eavesdropper, or a witness; more of an Eye, than an I. Everything happened with preternatural spontaneity. The body prepared tea, sat down, and sipped from it. The mind, or brain, was sort of vainly struggling to make sense of what had happened; to classify the experience, and identify with it, but none of the mental operations were "sticking". They just sort of broke up and floated off like smoke. After a while, the brain was speculating that "I" was a guardian angel or maybe just a light of awareness, overlooking this eternal river of mud. At the same time, it seemed plain that there was nothing else. Reality was fully present and there was nothing to compare with present reality, so there was no resistance or impatience; just a matter of fact awareness that it was all one thing; a sequence or stream in which "not one tittle of the law could be skipped", or overstepped. This person, whose life was the only life I had, at present, had no practical choice but to play out his karma/dharma, under the ever watchful eye of consciousness. Even if he/I became enlightened, there would still be nowhere else to go, nothing to discover, realize, transcend, or escape. All of that is it. This is it. This is the only world. Right here. Hello. Nothing is more spiritual than what is now, and your spiritual progress, so called, has nothing to do with you. We attach labels and invent distinctions but, ultimately, it's just this; I mean, that attaching was it, all along. A game to occupy the mind. As the ego is an identity for the light of awareness to occupy, inhabit, inherit, or receive as grace from God. It - He - can't do anything else but be Itself - Himself, like we can't; it is what it is. Sometimes I like to call it This. We may speak conveniently of "the other side", but, when we get "there", we do not call it "the other side"; rather, we will continue to say, just as we always have, "We are in this world", just as we shall always be. Amid reflections of this type, something clicked or reconnected; I seemed to decide that it was better to embrace this experience, since it was going to happen regardless, - it was the literal word and will of God, - and since it would be more interesting to surrender to the current; or allow myself to become reinvested with the journey. Since that day, I've been measurably much less anxious, more present, authentic, honest, confident, and courageous. I can date so many changes to that point. Another breakthrough, was fasting on water and electrolytes; specifically, potassium chloride and sodium chloride [SEE: "snake juice", or "snake diet"], and a generally low-carb, high-protein, high-fiber diet. That's my story, until it changes! 🙏 'NEAR IS AND DIFFICULT TO GRASP THE GOD' ~ Friedrich Hölderlin

your fire died just at the end of the video. good timing!

Interesting episode! I was watching a video with Devdutt Pattanaik about the east vs. west myths a couple of days ago...

The eternal dance of individualization with unification 🤗

glad that one channel mentioned it... lot of prays to Dionsyus.... har har mahadev

Another genius video well done! and just like your first Dionysus video this one speaks to me: I spent many years chasing the enlightenment of the Indian spiritual traditions, but recently I have come to think that enlightenment does not exist (at least in the way Westerners assume it exists), because our modern Western ego identities take up much more psychic energy than the enlightenment frameworks can hold. In pre-globalised India there was much more balance between the ego and the unconscious, therefore the representations of enlightenment were far more appropriate.

I've often felt this way when confronted with eternity. I have felt and experienced this tragedy, and I contemplate it often. We are told that our individual consciousness is like a ray of light from Shiva, who is like the Sun. In this way, we are truly eternal outside the perspective of our individuality. Yet temporally, we will and must experience this crushing defeat called death. I think we can and should experience both sadness and joy at this realization. It should also drive us to transcend ourselves.

A further point of perhaps interest - one understanding prominent in Hinduism is the notion of the universe (and all that goes on therein) as the Divine Play. With Lord Shiva & His Wife as the lead actor & actress, but also producers, scriptwriters, directors, set-designers, etc. etc. engaged therein. The Universe is referred to as Divya Abhinaya-Mantapa - the Divine (Divya) Theatrical-Performance/Expression (Abhinaya) Hall or Pavillion (Mantapa). Shakespeare was, it should seem, quite onto something when he proclaimed in 'As You Like It', "All the world's a stage ..." The drama carried out therein, one way it is referred to is as Nataka ( नाटक ) [and the 'Nata' (नाट) is the same term as that in 'Nataraja' - 'Dance' and 'Drama' being heavily entertwined concepts, just as they were in parts of the Greek dramatic sphere]. An example for this can be easily found in the prominent Devi Hymnal - the Mahishasura Mardini Stotram ['Hymn of the Vanquisher of the Buffalo-Demon']: नटित नटार्ध नटी नट नायक नाटितनाट्य सुगानरते Nattita Natta-Ardha Nattii Natta Naayaka Naattita-Naattya Su-Gaana-Rate Acting/Dancing (Nattita) [as] Half (Ardha) the Actor/Dancer (Nata), Actress (Nati) [and] Actor (Nata) [are the] Protagonist/Lead (Nayaka) [of the] Act/Drama (Naattita) [being] Performed (Naattya), Delighting In / Engrossed In (Rate) the Beautiful (Su-) Song / Performance (Gaana). Interestingly, there *appears* to be a somewhat direct Nordic cognate understanding - although there, while it is a 'play', it should seem more that it is a 'game' - with the universe standing for a board, and playing-pieces moved about thereupon via Divine Hands [per the remarks in the Voluspa inferentially upon the subject]. Now why i mention all of this is because that's part of the thing when it comes to the entirely understandable sentiments pertaining to death etc. - going 'behind the curtain', indeed. The drama is not so rich if there is not that peril and the emotional timbre of fear induced via the suggestion of a permanent ending. At least, for many people - it can certainly be argued the other way, that overcoming such enables *truly* heroic action. Indeed, truly heroic action that therefore overcomes permanent ending is quite literally the meaning of that justifiably (indeed, literally) famous phrase: 'Kleos Aphthiton' [seen also via its Sanskrit cognate, in the RigVeda: Sravas Aksitam ] Live well enough, and your story attains the immortality that your physical form cannot. So long after the latter is only dust, the former yet still lives on. But the point is - if it's all a Play, if it's all a dramatic act or a rather enthusiastically embraced recreational game ... then yes, it is easier to 'not take it so seriously', in the end. Although that's *only* 'in the end' - prior to reaching that point, whilst 'life' is still 'alive', and a 'live occurrence' , taking it seriously is very much recommended. It's just that the fact it's a Play (in either sense of the modern word) means one should also endeavour to live with a certain sense of spectacle ... and also never forget to have some *fun* with it, too. [-C.A.R.]

You can research on Indo Greek religions and Indo Greek Kingdoms. Here are some links en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_religions en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom

Excellent! Fascinating …

Yahoo - According to tradition, in 534 or 535 BC, Thespis astounded audiences by leaping on to the back of a wooden cart and reciting poetry as if he were the characters whose lines he was reading. In doing so he became the world's first actor, and it is from him that we get the world thespian.

This reminds me of Ramakrishna And how he lives in both Worlds of Brahman and Samsara, choosing to see Samsara as a manifestation of Brahman and even God Herself(when this association is made, it is no longer Samsara, but Maya)

I really enjoyed this video. Great work!

I will never hear the dreadful cry of a goat the same way again 🐐I knew what trago meant, but never that tragedy is the goat's song

Sir when you mention the first Greek encounters with Shiva, do you have a reference? Was it when Alexander invaded? I know afterwards there was an Indo-Hellenic culture for a while in the north west of India. There's a statue in India with a reference to Hercules

🎶

Σ' ευχαριστώ δάσκαλε.... Thank you teacher ....

I thought the point of tragedy was that you cannot escape your fate, no matter how you try.

Wow.

In hinduism 'Talk back' is your act of living and life itself. In kashmiri shivism your life is like a canvas that shiva paint on. You create a beautiful picture out of your life.

If we take into account Atlantis, which existed almost twelve thousand years ago, it becomes the oldest known civilization of the world. Then, it's no wonder that Shiva derived from Dionysus, since the oldest findings of the Hindu pantheon are about five to six thousand years old.

Of course every ancient civilization of the World had its deep rooted cultural aspects and mythologies with slight differences in ideologies. It's very tragic how the West had neglected their own roots and focused on conquering and colonizing countries and exploiting them vehemently. It became the need of the time (in 1900s) to spread the ancient knowledge against this imperial force. So the East spread what was known to them and close to them: the Eastern Mysticism. The tragic is that the West got overwhelmed!

Another beautiful sermo.

I feel archaic Greece gods/goddesses, as well as philosophers like Heraclitus and the Homeric tales are just as good as any eastern mysticism. It irritating so many westerners think all of western thought is, is either some Christian theology which is also unique or typical liberal philosophers like Hobbes, Hume, Kant and Hegal. We also have a very cyclic tradition that is just as inspiring and unique.

its said in various ancient texts, and mainly, in Dionysiaka, through records and finally proven, that when Dionysos reached India, thousands of years before Alexander, the residents, Indians, adapted him as their deity, and named him Shiva, so did the Egyptians, before he reached India, Dionysos set to Egypt for a while, there, the Egyptians adapted him to ''Osiris''

The moment that you see lampadiofories in your island Naxos in Greece,im sure i was there! In a not Greek philosofical documentary! OMG

❤😂😢😢😢😢😅 2:30

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

Hellenism’s sister religion is Hinduism?

nata in Latin natal means to be born, dance of creation indeed, dance of life and death, circle of passing generations modern western culture has only idea of linear time either with destruction at end or lack of any end and sense to the road don't bet on reincarnation reincarnate while living not loosing yourself and loosing it that's what natural change is

Is that the black sun in your logo at 10:32? Just curious.

Shiva predates Dionysus by several thousand years. Shiva is a major deity in Hinduism, which is one of the world's oldest surviving religions, with roots dating back to the Indus Valley Civilization in the third millennium BCE. Shiva's origins can be traced back to the early Vedic period in India, which began around 1500 BCE. Dionysus, on the other hand, is a deity from ancient Greek mythology, which emerged around the 8th century BCE, several centuries after the earliest records of Shiva worship in India. Therefore, Shiva predates Dionysus by a significant margin.

All time is contained in now.

I seek shiva in a 🍄 ceremony a few times he was laying in his side and laughing

You perverted my God. I still respect your work.

what is the name of the song playing in the background?

👍 Darklovelight 🍇 🕊️ ☯️

Bacchus was the Thracian pagan god, the Greek philosophy didn't came from mysticism but the influence from Mesopotamia and Egypt. Greece was more akin to middle easterners than Germans or Gauls or Nordic people, not only in thought but culture too. It's no surprise that barbarians or goths never took any interest in Greek philosophy like Arabs did. Even in the Christianity phase Europe's theology owes much to Plato and Idealism while the real gem, Aristotle was cherished by Muslims.

Dinosys can't be compared to shiva. First like all greek gods, his stories have been distorted by centuries of Judeo-Christian rewriting of it's popular tales and then even if we believe about all his stories...he doesn't compare to the might and indescribable glory of lord Shiva. Lord shiva is self manifest , dinosys was born. To give you a description of his power, once in great rage, lord shiva cut off a lock of his matted hair. From that lock of hair, when it touched ground , emerged a being more brilliant and effulgent than a million suns and with a energy like that of universal fire. It's said that when he arrived on earth, the entire earth trembled , there were tsunamis all over the world and earthquakes and the meteor shower started happening at a rapid pace. His chariot was said to be pulled by millions of celestial lions. He was so mighty that his head touched the skies. He was a burning inferno million times over. A god born only for war. His name was "Veerbhadra". Same was the case of "Kartikeya" - he was born from the very semen of lord shiva - the only son of lord Shiva born through his semen. Lord Shiva had spent billions of years in ascetic practices before even the creation of material world began..his powers are beyond our comprehension.

Report good

Fucking brilliant

Nope. Not buying it. Being "one of the hippies that traveled to India". Dionysus never "stood up to Shiva". Why would he ever need to? They are vastly different deities with some overlap in function. The hippies were not "the lost generation", they impacted world culture in innumerable ways. Where I'm standing, Dioysus is a demigod in Greek mythology and an archetype of Jungian psychology. Shiva is a living God CURRENTLY worshipped in Hinduism. The idea that Dionysus has "outdone" Shive is ludicrous.... The mysteries of Shiva are VAST. It is NOT a quick study. The idea of putting HIM in competition with Dionysus is silly. If anything, they both would have a great affinity with each other.

The Dionysus stuff in this video is interesting, but the parts discussing Śaiva beliefs have about as much insight and nuance as a wikipedia article.

He didn't subscribe to Buddism Aldous Huxley was a writer. Timothy Leary actually instigated the massive use of LSD. Aldous was a strong influence for Jim Morrison, but he is not a God. Neither is Timothy, or Gerrery. They all got really fucked up, and made their mark.

Ends with the same notion of iconoclasm particular to West / Abrahmic world view that they can talk back to eternity. Nor they understand Shiva nor Dionysus

This video made me think about the Divine Liturgy. I can see the parallels and symbolism, but the meaning eludes me. Jonathan Pageau has interesting content about Orthodox symbolism and the movement towards Re-Enchantment. Check it out if you’re interested.

dear Ancient Greek revised, I am into seeing the second video after the Dyonisos one. See? Again, some little lacune. Ecstasy is the opposite of anaestetic. Anaestetic all senses down. Ecstasy, all senses wide open. So not out of the body experience but connetion, being part of the whole, phisically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, but also the moment of the chaos, fermentation, bliions of new yeastes and bacteria that trasform into angels share through trippe definelty shit... ans being having some shit is good, all conttext. No shit no good crop. What goeas around comemes around in perfect harmony. The Joy aspect is related to the 21st of June Summer soltice energy point, North. That is the point where we can try to take off and reach the next level. Maximum speed, lowest acceleration, tending to decelerate till 21 of September harvest. Summer Fire. Autumn Metal, the cut, the beginning of the chaos. Or Chaos at 21 of March, Spring time, Wood. The Courage also. The trasformation and the use of the Winter immobility to reverse and create a new accelerating status quo. Organic Growth Chaos/Organic Fermentation chaos. On that regard I would ask you if you had considered that Dyonisos was the last God to enter the Olympo. Did you know the Gods have been added to Ancient Greek civilization little by little? Not all in one block. The More they knew, the more they add. Want to hear the voice of Dyonisos by St John? 15... I am the Truth Vineyard... Take away if you obbey to my commandment with... if you listen to my need... ask and it will be given... Dyonisos is the opposite of war. He is a good of Peace and Aboundance. No need for war. Why? I don't know if you were aware of all this elements about Dyonisos, but I would really reconsider your knowledge comes from fantasy. Interesting really interestning work though. Really. Another little thing about missing a few points about Greek times is that they had different words to describe things that now we use just one. Like here in Ireland we have 15 20 different way to cal rain. Shower, drizzle, etc, on another way we have 5 to ten way to call the sun... Greek peaople have different way to call love: 7 I think, aound that, and... erotical love different than friend love or love for a god, an idea, funny people the Greek, and eventually they didnt have time just as we know it today. They called time, exerienced by peoples talk, in 2 way, chronos, past present future, kairos, the right moment, later traslated interpreted by latis as karpe diem. Eternity concept a bit different in Dyonisos way...

Why does he speak at though he has knowledge of India 😐 brother don’t even know they used shiva to build the archetype of Dionysus 🤔 talking about Europe as the old world when it’s just a baby compared to Indian thought and democracy

To rage against God is to be man!

6:54 this reminds me of a prayer that we used to do... Which said that "life is a gift, death is compassion" Although I found nothing spiritually uplifting about what thespis did - it is something that everyone does Everyone blames and cries and thinks everything is unfair Nothing extraordinary about it Religion was made because people didn't want to be miserable all the time - and the way of thespis is just someone so lost in their own that they fail to see everything beyond "The everything beyond" is anything but misery To someone who has risen above good and bad, comfort and discomfort, pleasure and pain - to that someone, life wouldn't look like a tragedy - a pretty average and random hindu here who has just started exploring her own religion ( so a beginner hehe 😉)

You have interesting thoughts but a shallow understanding of Shiva, and a very western judgemental approach towards the Hindus. The spritiuality, for you, hasn't sunk in yet. The more you will read, the more you will realise that you are trying to create a one-upmanship with a whole culture and a people who don't look at you or the Greek culture as a competitor, but actually have a great fondness for it,.

Dionysus is not Shiva they’re the complete opposites of each other especially when it comes to their values ethics morals and temperament. Specifically what triggers your temper. Dionysus is the embodiment of all the worst qualities associated with the Demiurge. Brahma can be considered the Demiurge Yaldalboath, an Old Testament God. Shiva is superior to brahma as indicated by the stories involving the pillar of light and the removal of Brahmas fifth head. This is reinforced by the significance and importance placed on Shiva who replaced Brahma, as a figure of worship. At best Dionysos is one of the Asura or Deva Associated with archons created by the demiurge The real Hindu connection involves the sacred tree involving Buddha And DIO Nasu What Christianity considers Satanism is just the demonize ation of Middle Eastern Gnosticism, As well as the beliefs tied to the Tocharian Celts Hindu Assyrian Scythian As Rudra Shiva is the horn god of the hunt There are many stories explaining his was association with the bull or the musical instrument of the Horn Which puts him in line with Cernunnos What’s in front of CERN?

Mithra, Mars, Dionysus, Narshima, Mahees, Metatron, Apadamak. Jesus Christ the lion of Judah all lion men and much much more you people know nothing.

So Shiva is the origin of Dionysus, correct?

Errrrrrm, how did the people's of "India", or rather the Writers of the Veda, survive Post Deluge? They met with a displaced group, of FARMERS. Europeans. Much mixing of philosophies, medicines, everything. Viking tree and discworld, and "hanging man" Also found in "indian" texts. The European l, ad well the writer's of veda, and the LAST place of Sanskrit as a spoken, living language, Caucasus.....

the arrogance of Thespis is entertaining to say at the most but of no spiritual significance whatsoever. It ignores the fact that the individual exists within the eternal. To complain about an inevitable fact is indeed a tragedy, just like child cries out to their parents for attention. So as you rightly said, to go into ecstasy and stand beyond our limitations is the way. We could say that human lowest qualities are tragic and human highest qualities are ecstatic. The difference between the Hindus and the Greeks it is that the Hindus propounded methods (Yoga) which can transform the human consciousness towards ecstatic frequencies.