This is magnificent research with careful conclusions. Remember that the celebrants (the mistai I) walked to Eleusis. from Athens while fasting and while being shouted at by crowds of onlookers all along the way! You can add fatigue and dehydration as preparation for the visionary event. ICicero was so impressed by this experience that it reconciled him to dying. We will never know what was seen in the Telestrion but we ought to be grateful for the poetry the mystery left behind ! Was the grain of wheat in firelight an ancient version of Burning Man ? Xaipe thanks for this Judicious scholarship is here combined with serious cultural remarks about our own disturbed times.
And thank you for the comment. We might never know for sure, but part of what inspired this episode is the aesthetic theory that believed Greek temples and statues to have been white. We know that is not true, and the possible existence of psychedelic substances allows one to dare an aesthetic leap whereby they could (re)imagine Greek mythology in the terms we tried to show in this video, bright coloured and violent, dark, intense, weird and sublime.
The mystai could not talk about the ritual activities because it was a capital crime to do so. An initiate who divulged the secrets would be tried and executed for it. 😬
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Episode #1543, came out today and they talked about this subject. I was fascinated by the idea and came across your video doing some digging. Really like what you're doing!
Some fun facts I study in the Agricultural University of Athens which is on the Ιερά Οδός and the symbol of the school is the Goddess Demeter of Agriculture also in Greek cereal is called demetriaka you can probably guess why.
also a theory it could've contained DMT and a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (syrian rue/peganum harmala which is a MOAI and many many DMT containing acacia plants are found throughout the mediterranean) not too far fetched to think they mixed the two in the kykeon
Regadless of its composition, it is my impression that the priests of the mysteries used kykeon to harness the fear of death and the anxiety of existence that lie in every man's heart and channel them in such way that the creative forces within us were unleashed. The question is can we today transform all the pain we are experiencing as Greek people because of the crisis, the lockdowns, etc with (or even better without) psychedelics and create something worthwhile, something authentic, something that the future generations will be proud of and thrive upon? And could your platform be used as a basis for this metamorhosis ( I am not suggesting that you promote drug use, just saying if it could serve as the source of the awakening) ?
Thank you very much for this message. It is truly within our hearts to try and show a possible way out of this mental (as well as physical) lockdown that we Greeks have been going through over the last decades. We do believe that whatever change occurs in the physical and social plane is preceded by an equivalent change in the mind. A physical lockdown is preceded by a mental one. Our horizons have become too narrow, and psychedelics, as useful as they are as tools can only give you so much. It's an entire culture that needs to change in order to support whatever revelations come out of them.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I think what we need as a nation is a vision for our future to get us out of any kind of lockdown. And maybe we can learn from our past. Maybe a nation where power is decentralized and Hellas consists of a confederation of semi-autonomous city-states in harmony with nature and the other species of our planet where people are directly involved in the decisions that affect their lives. Maybe this would be too costly at this point due to the geopolitical conditions around us. I realize that this is a giant leap from where we are now. So maybe as a first step we can envision a country where people of too much political or financial power and media parrots are ostracized from public affairs and we tend towards becoming self-sufficient as a nation and hold referendums for the important matters in our lives like Switzerland. This of course has a prerequisite: that we are properly educated and we don't have to rely on pseudo-experts with ulterior motives. That is why I think that your platform holds enormous potential. It can act as a guru with the Sanskrit meaning of the word which is darkness dispeller!
@@filp8147 Thank you again! Yes, we definitely need a change, but we also have to wonder as to why it's not happening. There is no single Greek who does not agree with the statement "Greece needs to change for the better" - and I suspect we could even agree on many of the specifics: more transparency between the state and citizens, more jobs, better education (perhaps with an emphasis on ancient Greece)... and yet, it's not happening. We need to ask why. I personally believe that there is a deeper cause for all this. Like I said, changes on the physical plane are preceded by those on the mental, the plane of pure ideas. Many people today espouse what used to be called "materialism" (in the philosophical sense) without even knowing it. Super-consumption might not be an advent of late capitalism as some might think, but a natural consequence of accepting that all reality is essentially made of matter, and that matter can be studied and controlled through science. We need to get to the root of our ideas if we are ever to progress. You might also be interested in our latest podcast (audio only) where I talk with an expert on these matters. You can find it both on this platform (it's currently our latest) and on Spotify : open.spotify.com/show/3DyqBYNYYQl200rx8o3JUr
In The middle ages there was the 'Dancing plague'. Paintings by H. Bosch. The theory goes: In times when food was hard to come by, ergot grain was not thrown away but sold to the Brewer who would brew it into beer. This had the effect of decarboxylating the ergot, synthesising it into a psychedelic substance instead of just a poisonous plant infection.
Yes, like we mentioned in this video, sometimes grains were called "mad" or drunken." Thank you for reminding us of the Bosch painting though! Good catch!
That vine thing looks interesting. Ayahuasca is all the rage these days and is derived from a vine. The ancients lived under relatively primitive conditions. That doesn't mean they were stupid. In fact they were astute in the natural order in ways that lack comprehension now. You may wonder how it is the South American natives come up with so many natural cures. They ate the plants that told them how.
Ενδιαφέρον!! Η ιστορία της αρχαίας Ελλάδας είναι θησαυρός και δεν έχουμε δει τίποτα ακόμα.Αν κάποιος κάνει έρευνα σε βάθος για την ζωή των αρχαίων Ελλήνων θα διαπιστώσει απίστευτα πράγματα .
Great video! Thanks- if not already- you should definitely read the recent “The immortality Key”. Follows your same story with some extra bits of academic approved “evidence”
What are the Bacchae you speak of ? A group of women with a specific role in ancient Greek ritual?? Where can I learn more about that in the context of plant taking ritual in ancient times?
You can find the entire correspondence between Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann in a book called "The road to Eleusis" (by R. G. Wasson). On your second question, the Bacchae (Βάκχαι) were the worshipers of the god Dionysus, and were known, much like the Sufis, for their ecstatic dances. In terms of his nature, Dionysus has been linked to the Hindu god Shiva, and there is a tragedy by Euripides (also called "Bacchae") that shows his darker aspects as a "destroyer of worlds."
There is a new book by Brian Murarescu called The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name. He writes about Eleusinian mysteries and he even found that they were somehow exported to Spain. Or at least some elements of them. He claims that Greeks mixed their wine with various herbs including henbane and other toxic or psychedelic plants. He was also a guest in Joe Rogan's show together with Graham Hancock. www.amazon.com/Immortality-Key-Uncovering-History-Religion/dp/1250207142 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gzAQ7SklDxo.html
Being that Demeter is the goddess of agriculture and wheat, and the patron of the Eleusinian mysteries, leaves little doubt in my mind that they used a sort of Ergot from wheat.
Thank you.... good idea to see the documentary Mourning Rock ... Αγέλαστος πέτρα !!!! Heart breaking stuff ... respect from a Romios wanting to be a Hellen ... Να σε καλά
Yes a good documentary indeed. We have in mind another documentary based on the Eleusinian Mysteries, which would be quite... vibrant if we are able to produce it!
Too bad that Greek drug laws today equate marijuana and heroin, let alone forbidding mushrooms and LSD. Must be the work of their priests who have little if anything to offer of real comfort to mortals. Can't think of a more beautiful place for a trip!
It's not just Greece! Read the following: tinyurl.com/4azt5p2e That is the United Kingdom's Psychoactive Substances Act of 2016. Now, in case you didn't notice, what is particularly creepy about this Act is that it doesn't outlaw particular substances like Heroin or Cocaine, but a mental state! Because the only definition of a "psychoactive" substance, when stated in the general, is one that has "psychoactive" effects. To me, that's like outlawing anger or love... and the door is now open for governments to regulate what emotions are deemed acceptable.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Wow---"excludes legitimate substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, nicotine, caffeine...."---in other words, known deadly substances---but anything that opens your mind beyond the christian capitalist labor camp is OUT. Well, our heads have already poked through the veils of falsity and the war-helmet will never fit rightly again! That is our great hope...
Michallis Michalidis is an international man of mystery... just kidding. Our next video is going to touch on the mysterious also, but focusing more on history and the lost world of Minoan Crete. The one after that however... is going back to Dionysus!
@@AncientGreeceRevisited what's the frame work like for this kind of study. Are the videos just separate stand on there own bits of info or are they pieces of a bigger story. What is all of it based on?? Research? Literature? History?
The goal is to recapture the original Greek world-view. Works like that of Martin Heidegger for instance are pivotal in our quest. There is also an interview we have on our channel about a philosopher called "Castoriadis." He too had something important to say about the "inceptual" Greek-ness. He was a man of the Left, and Heidegger of the Right, so... somewhere between these two we might even make some sense. To answer your question in a different way: literature, history and philosophy are the main "excuses" for going back and trying to understand the ancient Greeks in their own terms.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited, with due respect of your very thorough ancient Greek explanations Michallis, could we ever say to be so called 'left'or 'right'?? Is not that just a little superficial and shallow for us humanbeings..? We are as I found deeply, all of it.. both left or right and everything in between, without taking notice of wishes to be.., which originates in the ego and his noise ofthen produced..or? :-) Is that really the reason of the Road to Eleusis? Not making the choise and step back from that? It must have been special, I exspect.., and the rumours about the content of the drink begins to speak on its own, these days. :-)
@@ThomiX0.0 The "Left and the Right" have nothing to do with Eleusis, obviously, and it's always helpful to remember that these terms did not even exist back in ancient Greece. However, they existed for Castoriadis and his revolutionary project which was inspired by Marxism. As human-beings (that you mentioned) we must accept the self-definition of each person as saying something important about them. Castoriadis believed in the revolutionary potential of Greek philosophy, but his goal was ultimately the overthrow of Capitalism in a post-Marxian sense.
ok, it sounds quite possible for antiquity to trip on “ergot”. On the other hand, that was not a chemical synthesis like modern lsd I guess, but it might have been a simple tea or whine version just like ayahuasca drink.. Ancient blends like rotten fish with camel urine added 3 pieces of ergot.. who knows?😊
They could have in the mysteries some substance but lsd is not the same. Maybe some other. And wine they could make there is also description of the process.
Hofman was also great friends with Ernst Junger who would later experiment with him taking LSD. Junger is a German modernist with a very Greek way of looking at the world. I recommend reading ''Storm of Steel'' and ''Glass Bees'' .
Around minute 8:30 you claim that ancient greeks had long associated pine cones with the pineal gland and that ancient people related the pineal with the seat of consciusness. Could you provide any source that suports this? I've never heard of this claim. Thanks in advance.
I didn’t mean that Greeks had “long associated” the two. I meant there were long associations throughout history and throughout various peoples. You can find a short history of this here: plato.stanford.edu/entries/pineal-gland/#Anti
Ευχαριστώ για το μήνυμα σου Αριστείδη. Αν κάποιοι κατάλαβαν με τα όσα είπαμε στο βίντεο ότι απλά "οι Έλληνες μαστούρωναν," αυτό αντανακλά το δικό τους επίπεδο, για το οποίο δεν μπορούμε να κάνουμε και πολλά. Τώρα, όσον αφορά την κ. Μαραγκού, την οποία και σέβομαι, διαφωνώ με τις ερμηνείες της. Ο λόγος της είναι εμπνευσμένος και σίγουρα μπορεί και μαγεύει μερικούς, αλλά κατά τη δική μας ερμηνεία, οι απόψεις της άπτονται της "Ελληνιστικής" και όχι της Ελληνικής "κοσμοθέασης." Η εμμονή με την αθανασία της ψυχής, και της ένωσης με τον λεγόμενο "θεϊκό Νού" απαντώνται στην ύστερη κλασσική Ελλάδα, μετά (και ίσως με απαρχή) τον Πλάτωνα. Θα κλείσω με ένα πολύ όμορφο απόφεγμα του Heidegger, ο οποίος και προσέγκησε τον Ελληνικό νου περισσότερο από οποιονδήποτε μέσα στον 20ο αιώνα. "The danger of etymology lies not in etymology itself, but rather in the spiritual poverty of those who practice it-or, what amounts to the same, of those who seek to resist it."
We have gotten so many of these "corrections" that I am considering to simply change the title. It was meant as a metaphor! Everyone knows that LSD proper was synthesised in the early part of the 20th century and not 2,500 years earlier. Whoever sees the video understands... that we understand ;-)
Fascinating! Thank you for this production. I'm reading the research of Brain Muraresku in his recent book "The Immortality Key" to explore evidence that supports the Ruck/Hoffman/Wasson hypothesis.
Curiously, ergot in slavic cultures is called "Sporysz" which is an ancient word with a root from proto-indo-european language. Its meaning is connected to something (crops, yields) being plentiful, abundant. In ancient Slavic mythology there was a demon called "Spor" or "Sporysz" that was an abstraction of good harvest and abundance and his presence was heralded by ergot.
Several years ago on a camping Trip;), I broke through. Maybe a victory of Set and Setting, because I'd only taken a couple hits. I can't describe the next part very well except that I was connecting with a greater being which instinctively I recognized as feminine. At the time I was troubled with how my life had been going and by some choices ahead of me. This being comforted me and answered a great many questions on my mind which felt reminiscent of when I was little and upset being soothed by my mother. Then years later, I came across stories about the Eleusian Mysteries and they resonated with my memory of this experience. Is it possible then that I connected with Persephone? A friend pointed out that could also have been Demeter. What do you think, was I connected to Persephone, to Demeter, or just tripping? Then regarding the question the video posed. The Eleusian Mysteries were celebrated for more than a thousand years, which is time enough to perfect the process of making kykeon and master concepts like set and setting. Personally, I believe they had developed an experience akin to tripping on LSD.
I believe that you connected with *something* that the Greeks would definitely recognise as Demeter.Persephone (remember, a mother and daughter pair in mythology is really the same deity in different forms). You might be interested to lear that I personally conceived of this channel during my year of experimenting with those substances. I was older by that time, and could process and reflect much better, albeit some of the youthfull energy that lights up certain trips had somewhat escaped me. What I found most fascinating was that - just like you hinted - it's impossible to describe what you experience, as those experiences seem to happen inside of a space where different rules to our materiall universe apply. It's not about "seeing things." Most people that I know try to describe their trips in terms of visuals. The visuals are there, but the experience reminds me of the connection we make between "seeing" and "knowing." In modern English you might say "I see" and mean "I get it." In ancient Greek, the word «οἶδα» meant "knowing" but its Indo-European root (*wóyde) came from the word "seeing." In this context, seeing is not "believing" but "knowing." What I have personally experienced in my own trips is a state where you see/know things. Where truth is not a "conclusion" you draw after examining the evidence but a revelation that is as undisputed as recognising a certain colour. There is a theory that all religions began by experimenting with psychedelics. I think that is a ratehr modern, and somewhat poor understanding of something much greater: that religions began by the revelation of truth through a state of seeing/knowing. It might have come through psychedelics, it might have come through meditation, fasting, or spontaniously... out of nowhere.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited at first glance, is that Indo-European root (*wóyde) the same root that Odin stems from? Also, the whole concept of discerning the difference in meaning of seeing puts me in mind of Carlos Castenada's writing.
The whole vine and pineal gland thing sounds more like DMT than LSD, and the whole once a lifetime thing supports this a bit more, DMT is known to impact people in a harsh or a positive way but many never want to take it again after they've broke through because of the experience they have
The pineal gland of produces DMT in reptiles, that's true, which opens up the way for assuming the same for humans. But the pineal gland was mythologised long before any of this was known! For some reason, it was linked to consciousness, and there is also a gigantic pine cone in the Vatican! Whatever the case might be, we will be touching on mystery cults on our next episode, so stay tuned ;-)
It's possible that it wasn't fun because there was sickness because of limited extraction quality which would explain why it was confined to this once a lifetime ritual.
Well, yes. If you read "The Idea of the Holy " by Rudolf Otto (g.co/kgs/NqWFUp) where such experiences are catalogued from around the world, you will find that "having fun" is not on the list...
@@niccoloaurelius1587 After recounting the whole myth of Persephone? After saying explicitly (10.35) that what we presented did not prove that the Greeks "tripped on LSD"?! Why are people stuck on details and not enjoying the larger presentation is beyond me!
@@AncientGreeceRevisited sorry to have upset you! It was the impression I got from the video. Good to hear that you're aware the greater mysteries were (likely) something else.
Here is what I think in the Iliad there is a mention of Kykeon drink which had wine goat cheese barley or wheat and honey mix now if ergon was present then yes ofcourse they were tripping but not from lsd but from lsa the pre form of lsd so yea I believe this it is also found in morning glory seeds you take enough you will see visions great video love the ancient stories good job 👍🏻
Yes, the title was more to catch the viewers attention. It's almost certain that LSD per se was not synthesized in ancient Greece, but on the other hand, just like you said, it's almost certain that SOMETHING was.
That is definitely "right up our street." But so far, maybe this will be of your liking: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KUpL9X7JCNI.html
1200 years after the beginning of these rituals 2 initiates where giving away aspects of this experience in a now famous allegory of the cave. This baptism or rebirth in the spirit was also the essence of the Mithras cult that also used underground 'churches' to prepare the rebirth. Plato's recount of Socrates teaching preceded the persecution of the prophets of the holy water, that threatened the system keeping Matrix slaves, and you can read about it in John 3rd and 4th chapter....
Yes, but don't forget that Plato's whole work was not a re-telling of these rituals (which he probably took for granted) but their relationship to knowledge. You can see it very clearly in the dialogue called "Ion," where poets are compared to the ecstatic initiates of the dark mother, Cybele. But as to their actual knowledge, and how it stands next to the philosopher's, it's a whole other question.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Interestingly as Plato predicted the treatment of somebody coming into the cave teaching about the extended dimensions by 400 years before the holy water cult aka YesUs was driven underground another
@@usertogo Yes, it's well within our interests. For the moment we touched on this subject in ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dlOep7VODsQ.html. What I meant by my other comment, however, is that the Allegory of the Cave is quite profound and should not be taken merely as a reference to the Eleusinian mysteries. I mean, even the analogy is inverted. In the mysteries the initiate goes down while in the Cave he comes up into the light. Sure, it can still function as a metaphor but I would suggest you don't rush into a "premature analysis" using the Great Mysteries. In short, the mysteries were known to Socrates and Plato, and mentioned throughout his texts. The task of the philosopher however is not to lose himself into an ecstatic moment where he forgets his human nature and unites with the divine, but rather, to "stay human" and know the truth, which will inevitably be a very human truth.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes, but I like the shamanic imperative (John 3:7) man goes into the cave but comes out as #homoHyperdimensionalis reborn - all illusions died with the man that went in enlightenment by oneness eXperienced
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Socrates was killed because he seduced the youth to go investigate the mysteries- and so were many prophets of the holy water aka YesUs
