Divide & Conquer (V4.5): Faction Overview - Khand 

Allow me to expand on my feelings for Khand:- 1) Khand will not be removed. This was decided long ago. I just like to mention my own thoughts to stimulate discussion. 2) I didn't explain it particularly well in the video. so, I wouldn't remove Khand, I would change them to be a horde faction for the player. For the AI, I would have them appear as the Mongols do in the base game. 3) When I said "it is a waste of a faction slot" I didn't mean that there is a better candidate than Khand, I meant that the faction, to my mind, is dull and is likely not very popular ergo it is a waste because nobody chooses it anyway. However, as the tirade in this comment section has show, Khand is actually VERY popular. Some people feel VERY strongly against the removal and have their pitchforks ready but I would ask that you do try to present your comments in a genial manner.

The Blue Wizards do come in on the same turn, they come on the turn that Ancantar spawns in, I’ll repeat, The Blue Wizards do come together on the same turn.

lol sauron's inquisitor teaches nomads to build cities, and the good wizards don't think to do that.

I would have thought that Khand is a DAC-fan-favorite. It's certainly in my top-5. I'm not trying to knock your opinion, but I think removing Khand would make Gondor and DA more tedious/boring, since you would fight an even more powerful Harad/Mordor and whilst yes, they would get Khandish units, I'd miss fighting those unique battles against an evil cavalry nation. The only thing that can solve DA's 'problem' is to give it more wealthy starting regions, so you don't have to always operate in the negative. Perhaps a powerful maritime-themed economic building that is better than the merchant's wharf, such as the building for Isengard at Rochburg, which you can build in selected coastal regions.

Just a minor point that Galu missed. If you side with the Blue Wizards, the smallest reward you get is two dwarven catapult units in each wizard's army. I'm fairly certain this makes you the only non-dwarven nation to get them, but they obviously have the potential to swing any battle in your favor if used correctly. However, those two units are the only catapults you'll ever get, so be careful with them.

I enjoy that you bring your ideas to the table. So I decided to do the same: If you want to make a new faction, and more so a horde nation then make a new one out of the orocani dwarves, headed by the blue wizards and that they show up to the east. They could have a have some of the generic dwarven units and supported by a “liberation” mechanic much like ar-andunaim by instead of enslaving the good people, they have the possibility of liberating the few people of the neighboring factions that plausibly would not be keen on following the dark Lords will. The new faction don’t even have to be good, but more like neutral. Simulating that not all of the people of the steppe or desert want endless wars and slaughter of the people to the west. This would make the khand play trough more interesting and less about shipping troops west. And also make the new faction actually like a counterweight to Rhuns endless expansion and Dol amroth getting swarmed by 3 factions. Maybe even making Mordor divide it’s attention a wee bit and stop Gondor from more or less loosing in like 30-40 turns. As always thanks for a great job on a great mod! Thanks goes out to all of you!

I love Khand, and think they are one of the coolest factions. Even bought and built a small tabletop army with 2 converted blue wizards to play them in Middle Earth SBG solely because of this mod!

Don't mind me, just boosting the algorithm before I've even watched the video.

Khand is my favorite faction in DAC. They're the best!

Im sorry but taking away a faction like Khand when we have Ered Luin and the high elves is pure, pants on head on madness

My govan and melanie and well met indeed i'm erika galadhin... I really hope Youtoube will never improve the quality of auto generated subtitles - they are a constant source of amusement.

I personally enjoyed playing as Khand very much. Sure, they have a more isolated and spread out starting location but if you are aware of the blue wizards script then you spend the early part of the campaign preparing for that. This preparation phase is something that I find enjoyable and the script itself is one of the greatest ones imo.

A suggested change for Khand: -Decrease the density of settlements in the far East (only the capital and castle.) Cut 3 settlements -Increase the density around the river (Harnem?) Split Amman and the settlement to its East of it -Move Khand's homeland to East of the river based around Amman.and Chelkar -Add another settlement or 2 to the South of Harad as Trollmen and Mumakil homelands to offset the loss of Amman and Far Chelkar. -More Mumakil and Troll-men for Harad (only reason to play them), closer to the fight homeland for Khand

Khand, Ar-Adunaim and Renmants of Angmar are my favorite campaigns so far. Khand because of Blue Wizards script are very challenging faction.

On the one hand I get why you would want to change the way Khand interacts with the rest of ME and remove it as a faction. But to me it was the first faction I played and the reason I fell in love with dac. They offer a different playstyle than most other factions and an interesting choice. Yes you are far away, but with the way culture and building requirements are set up right now, I often have to march armies from recruitment hubs to my main armies. I'm happy khand isn't invade-only like Mongolia or the Timurids, because I always wanted to play those in campaign, but couldn't in the base game. Besides what would removing Khand really add to the game?

I like Khand, they clearly serve a purpose, if you play as Mordor or Harad and they side with the wizards it spices up your campaign. My take when playing them is to mainly built up your economy/finances, then siding with the wizard and going against your former allies, it's a hard, but fun campaign.

#savekhand I used to exclusively play dunedain nations until I first played as Khand. They grew to becoming my favorite faction and I love how the blue wizard script effects them with your people and later the inquisitor taking all your towns forcing you westwards as a people in flight settling in harondor as allies of the west biding your time until you can return home and despoil your (former) neighbors of harad, rhun, umbar, and mordor salting the land and despoiling cities as your hordes ride out under horse hair banners to enact vengeance against your former master and the nations of men who wished to carve out your territory for yourself. Not every faction needs to be dol amroth or gondor where it is dominated by a singular large front, nations like khand having logistical issues and supply limitations due to being so far away is a challenge in of itself.

Just wanted to say thanks for all your work on this mod. Gotten a huge amount of fun for free.

Khand is actually quit a fun to play option. But only if you do either go with the blue wizards or more or less do not support any side and just conquer whatever you can. An early backstab can be helpful, as when the culture changes, whatever you held at that point has a large amout of the new culture. It is hard but possible to prepare and take either Rhun or Harad in a single turn, which then gives you a nice base to retake your homeland (as nomads, you do not care that much).

Choosing to side with the wizards also gives you increased mining income.

That culture conversion thing would be cool for the Ar-adûnâim, make it so you can stay kingsmen, join Sauron fully or side with Gondor. Just a thought...

Khand is my absolute favorite faction, every single time a new version comes out the first faction I always play is Khand.

when you choose the blue wizards as khand, make sure to manually destroy your dark shrines and build the new cultural buildings (sanctuaries or whatever they're called) I overlooked this and of course it was quite crippling D: I think khand (maybe other factions too idk) needs more of them little general icons, as I have a lot of duplicates in my khand campaign (you even start with "twins" in Ammu Khand and Kyzilkum)

Khand was my second ever campaign! I'm sure it's not a popular faction, but them having the Blue Wizards as lore fluff was and is so amazing to me. Isengard and the Dunedain get 1 Istari... Khand gets two! And you're surrounded by fun to fight enemies. I lost that second campaign terribly, but it was a great time and very memorable. Those chariots were amazing... If Khand were to ever get removed, I'd love to, at the very least, see a way to play the Blue Wizards! It'd be tragic if they ever were only available to the AI.

Could the chariots not have more misseles? I always thought that units that could realistically carry more ammo (like mumakill and great beasts) would get more ammo. Wouldnt chariots be able to stack more quivers (or bolts) in their little wagon, making 20 a little low?

I miss these videos so much, hope you are doing well Galu!

These dudes look like villains from a Conan flick, I LOVE it!

Khand, imho, is a good faction with an interesting script. I played two campaigns (to sort out both choices) and, as far as I can say, they're really more unique than Ered Luin (which, even without my bias towards dwarves, are the least interesting of the three factions). Imho to fix Khand (instead of removing it), they should be remade into a true neutral horde faction (similar to the AA), but with a much worse starting position (the AA can basically go everywhere thanks to ships and a good roster even in the lower tiers), which would balance Dol Amroth and Gondor, removing an enemy and it will not change things for evil factions (if Khand attacks early, they'd be obliterated), and it would allow the blue wizard script to stay the same, but starting on the turn they settle up.

So if Khand Horsearchers are the most accurate in the game are they more accurate than elven horsearchers? Or does it go Elven Khandish Anything else

Fun fact: Variag is an old norse word meaning wanderer or mercenary. It referred to the Varangians and the Norse who invaded Russia.

Arachir! My friend I was about to start a Khand Campain!

I always use Marauders as cannon fodder I always charge the enemy just to get them out of defensive position while my archers and horse archers shoot them down with my infantry following up as anvil and my shock as flankers.

I like how you say that Khand is a waste of a faction slot, you have two open slots from removing Lindon and the Ents and you've yet to find something to fill them cutting Khand is a stupid idea especially since with what are you going to replace them with: I can see why you get overruled constantly on this Galu its because you don't have an alternative that is fun, because if you were to make Khand an event faction then you'd make non-playable which for a faction that has been playable since the first release and has no issues with it (Apart from the fact the should be allowed to build cities regardless of choice because of the fortifications that come with them: personally though I think that stone walls should be typical of a Large town and we ditch the trash first tier of walls and replace it with the Large town walls) and they are one of my favorite factions: so please refrain from asking for Khand to be removed or I'll start advocating for Dol Amroth to be removed as they serve about a similer of a role to Khand in terms of being a small calvary based faction that spends most of its time fighting Harad and Khand also I'll add that removing Khand would break balancing in the south as without Khand Dol Amroth will steam roll Harad piecemeal also their choice script gives a way to keep Mordor in check if they do rebel.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the Mongol style of Khand. In the books they are described as bearded men using heavy 2 handed axes. Also the name Variag probably comes from Varangian so in my opinion it would be better for Khand to be depicted as some kind of Rus principality with Men wielding Dane axes, Boyars etc. Edit: Because Khand is located in a hot desert region and not in a cold place like Russia they could have more Byzantine inspirations in for example Armour. (Varangian Guard).

I like the look of the nobles, but you're right that they could use a bit of a redesign to improve the detail level.

I like the two duel choice dwarven alternate universe events in this mod. where the dwarves can decide to side with Sauron. or Khand can side with the free peoples and the blue wizard’s dwarves. two factions deep within their respective allies land possibly switching sides and throwing a wrench into world events. I can see why you might like a mongol style hoard even thing as well. I can see how that might add to an interesting campaign.

Great Idea for changing how Khand works!

Btw steppe regions are actually very cold in the winter

Khand and Ered Luin are very similar if you play their historical role they’re very boring. If you play the opposite role they’re exciting. Ered Luin - good guy campaign is so boring just like Khand bad guy campaign is boring. Where they become fun is good guy Khand and bad guy Ered Luin.

I like the decision to keep Rohan being the only one to get the tier 3 horse breeder, not just for game play but also lore. Its been a while since I read the books but they are called Horse Lords not for their skill in the saddle(though they are excellent) but for their horse breeding. I don't remember if it is explicitly stated but they come off as the best horse breeders in the whole of middle earth. Almost every good horse in the books is of or descended from Rohan stock of horses that were either a gift or capture(Nazgul horses). SO it would make little sense, to me anyways, to have Khand, a nomadic people we know very little about, have horse as good as the best in the world of middle earth.

Hey Galu,Thanks for the work you and the rest of the Mod-Team put into this amazing mod, would it be possible to get the link for the old lore Videos? Thanks

Would maybe a script be possible that pins hard/khand/rhun against one another in a 2v1 kind of setting. I imagine it as such: Sauron is basically tricking/lying to these people into fighting form them, he is the great deceiver. He creates this illusion of favouritism amongst them, where then the 3 evil men of the east factions compete for Saurons benevolence, eventually turning on one another out of spite/competition/distrust/jelousy. I feel this could also kind of spice op the south east of ME (besides of course the marvelous blue wizard script), which can create some kind of tension/action for khand if they do side with mordor, where you still end up fighting either harad or rhun, which creates a fight a little closer to home and gives you expansion options. The reservations you have with khand are also present to a lesser extent for harad, where you hust fight DA and Gonder in a 4v2 setting untill they inevitably break. I feel like the betraying nature of sauron has a lot of potential to create infighting, but of course you guys know better what would spice up khand/harads campaign.

After an kind of easy Dol Amroth campaign, i reaally want to play Khand and side with Blue Wizards! Hopefully it will be a hard challenge! Thank you great vid as always :)

Yes we Khand!

Khan is a ton of fun, although fighting the southron can be absolutely hell because of how many anti-cavalry units they use(heavy spear usage, pikes, camels, strong middling cav, even mumakil)

Hey, quick question. I’m fairly certain there’s a bug with river crossing battles with no bridge. I’m in the middle of a Gondor campaign and had to attack Mordor across a river, while most of Mordor’s troops crossed the river, the rest didn’t and my men wouldn’t cross the river without immense prodding, and my cavalry wouldn’t cross at all. Has there been any issues with river battles that people have reported like this?

Who would you replace Khand with if they were to be removed. I can’t think of a lot of factions that should be but aren’t in DaC.

Love this faction great cav and if you go way of blue you get dwarves what faction gets amazing horse archers and dwarves its so unique

I like playing as Khand and turning good tho.

I did a khand game a few months ago, a lot of walking, but with the blue wizard script, siding with them, it was still a very fun campaign. so please dont remove them. Its probably something hardcoded into the game but could you give khands units just a faster movement speed on the khampaign map? also maybe as a flavourful but not so sexy reward for siding with sauron khand could get the rubbish orc guild that gives fighters and hunters? lastly big love to the modding team and thanks for everything you guys do.

My favorite faction when they chose Blue Wizards but still my favorite overall

Could you give the hoard cav wedge formation? i mean it would be better if you could create a square formation but in absence of that, allowing them to go into wedge formation seems (to me) like the next best thing.

I hope Khand stays in. It is one of my favorite factions to play and their choice of who they side with makes for an interesting challenge especially when you side with the blue wizards and free peoples.

Much as I like Khand, it is true I play them little. But them starting as a horde kinda fixes the problem of them starting in a corner. Start as horde like the huns in Barbarian Invasion, then immediately get event to choose which side to support then get appropriate additional forces. Being a horde you can settle anywhere!

To me Khand proved to be an interesting and refreshing surprise. The Blue Wizard script turns playing them in a dramatic experience with a cinematic drama - you lose settlement after a settlement and gather all forces to fight to the death in defence of your capital only to discover there is a relief force coming. Such a thriller! That while listening well selected music, perfect for the nomads. It is 'the good Ered Luin' , but humans with cavalry, facing the Dark One and his allies with support from the far east. The very suggestion to remove this faction really surprises me, especially since I have used the Blue Wizard script as an example how something really dramatic can be added and turn playing a minor, supporting faction into something exceptionally fun. Fun, but not easy - money run out if you don't secure good sources of income such as advanced mines before the money Blue Wizards brought are spent. I had some of the most engaging, difficult, challenging battles playing this mod when leading Khandish forces and I strongly disagree with suggestions it is a waste of slots or deserving only a part of a red shirt NPC. If it is ever removed I hope there is a sub mod which brings it back. BTW The starting army is larger - there is an entire not so small, elite army in a fort far in the western areas. I have used it to capture more than one province and defend them from Mordor as an isolated island of Khandish forces in the west. And when it failed as an exiled elite force supporting Dol Amroth for years only to eventually return and help re-taking home provinces.

Who else thinks the Nomad warriors should have more armour? They’re clearly wearing chainmail under Brigandines which you can tell from the pattern on their armour.

Btw Dun Larach is buggy as hell on different turns and it can be an unwinnable battle because troops dont climb walls or fight the enemy at all, they just spaz out and keep dying.

General question: Could you reintegrate the small videos when reaching a special place, which where shown in normal third age? Really enjoied them

If you side with mordor initially for the cities and then turn on them, do you lose the build options?

I finally conquer Mordor Rhun and most of harad it took for ever 🤧 but was worth it

The roster is great for khand

what if khand start hoard (like AA), at start get a message from Sauron offering you land (current khand positons) in exchange for your service. if you accept then you get all your heartlands and the blue wizards attack you later. if you say no, then the dark messenger says youll regret it (mordor declares war) and also then you have to take your cities one by one (or invade mordor, or run away to some other corner of the world) and the blue wizards hear of your defiance against the dark lord and come to help you.

What an amazing pronunciation of "raison d'être" for a non native !

Wich faction would you like to include instead if you guys decided ta take out Khand?

Just a thought with the terrain malus for Khand. The steppes get some really frigid cold winters, should they not get a malus for forests and mountains? That would make more sense for a steppe nation, just saying

Should the warlords guard be changed to a spear and sheild unit cus if you side with the blue wizards then you get 3 elite strike units and thats it and the dwarf axe unit is restricted and isnt as good as the guard

Couldn't you give them an infantry custom bodyguard? In particular, Variag Bowmen seem like they would be useful without being crazy OP. What about Warlord's Guard as Khan Arkish's bodyguard? It would be strong, but it most likely wouldn't be as strong as Adrahil's Talon Knights or Boromir's Wardens of the White Tower. I really enjoy the variety that comes with custom bodyguards. I feel like the Orocarni Warriors should be changed. Having 3 elite infantry units and all of them being armor-piercing melee infantry feels redundant, especially with how similar the Warriors and Warlord's Guard are. I feel like an anti-oliphaunt javelin-thrower (or axe-thrower) feels like the best fit, since you will probably be fighting Harad and the Tribesmen don't have a specific bonus against Oliphaunts. Lastly, didn't they have a mid-tier axemen unit, or am I going crazy? Variag Axemen, or something like that?

The only thing I would want to see is a similar Blue Wizard choice for Harad.

"Khand horse archers are more accurate than everyone else's" Wait, does that include elves too?

If Khand is a waste of a faction slot, what faction would you add and where? Just curious

I might agree with galu on the interest factor of khand other than their roster, I absolutely love their roster. I wouldn’t want them as a mercenary faction, maybe their lands could be split between harad and rhun and their units split between them as well, both harad and rhun have scripts that add units to their roster, perhaps khandish units could be added as the final set of units for both. If you were to add any faction as a horde faction a la the Mongols I think the Blue Wizards would actually make a good faction, their adopted capital could be khands current capital and they could come in to help break up the waves of invasions that Dol Amroth experience. In this case they would keep the Khandish roster plus some extra eastern dwarf units.

You removed Ents and that Elven faction so why would Khand be a waste of a faction slot? Do you want to add more factions?

I like the idea of making khand a horde invasion. Curious what you would do with the faction slot though.

My question will be an irrelevant comment on this video but does anyone get this error message after a certain turn in the game? "medieval 2 total war encountered an unspecified error and will now exit" if you have a solution for this, please do tell. (i have perfectly followed the installation guide by the way)

Aunxillary Outposts? Couldnt you capture settlements and train their units?..

What's the music playing in the background?/

Personally I think Khand is fine as is. It suffers from being an evil faction next to all it's allies however the script fixes this to some degree and if I'm completely honest anyone playing Khand should side with the blue wizards. You can already sort of role play as raiders too you can attack a settlement sack it then dismantle all the building as if you razed the settlement.

Dont remove Khand!

I personally really like the design of the Khandish Bodyguard. Maybe the model is not as new as others but It's looks really good

One Am gang

How do I install this if I have just a vanilla Medieval 2 installed?

I think instead of making Khand side with the opposite of the player there should be a script where you can place a diplomat at a set location at a random turn limit and it adds a 30-40% chance of Khand siding with you.

Unless you expand the map eastwards and include another good faction, khand ultimately just seems hindered by their location

If Khand were a permanent horde faction that had to sack settlements in order to survive then their campaign would be dynamic. Set it up so that all of their units are recruited as mercenaries. Take away all building options from them. Their mode of operation would become attack, sack, do not bother to protect and then move on and repeat. Additionally I would give them one building. Name it, "cairn," "pile of bodies," or simply, "sign of Khand". It would be an indestructible cultural building that would give a 50% chance of converting 70% of the region's culture to Khandish thus allowing you to recruit more Khandish mercenaries in that region. Economically I'd say let the Khandish treasury benefit from devestation if their army chooses to loiter in a region.

Would it be possible to have Khand as a horde faction, but still let the player start as them as well? Like, if the player controls them they have the normal starting date, but if the player controls a different faction the spawn in later on?

Variag Nobles looks more like AA styled unit.

I like your idea of Khand as a horde

More like a Khandabrian Circle! Am i Right? ..... anyone?

yuve yuve yu intensifed

Well you could at least add last tier mines for Khand to show dwarwen influx.

Galu why did you guys remove the Imladris riders for high elves!! They were so enjoyable to play with!!

IMLADRIS!

Sorry to ask but when is the release date of v5.0?

As a Gondor player, i find Khand an interesting enemy in game to contest with, poss an option to make it always bad when playing as Gondor would be nice. Other larger changes, might be to lose some provinces in Enidwaith to allow more in the South and East.

I agree with your idea for Khand, makes the region more interesting, but I'm not sure what faction you would put in their place.

Waste of unit slot... I mean, sure, we could make Trolls into own faction, or return Ents. Or what about Grand Principality of Mírlond? Tharbard confederacy? United tribes of angry Lossoth fishermen? Druedain republic woud be cool Hope you see the problem (And now seriously, I would like to hear your idea what would you personally replace Khand with, because I can't think of something more appropriet than Khand)

Err or should get oracani warriors too!

I say that we shouldn’t be removing content

i feel like the oracarni warriors should definetly be better than warlords guard

i completely dislike the idea of having "trash" cav units because historically speaking horses were and are quite expensive and wouldnt go to waste on peasants. maybe thats just me but it ruins immersion