I notice when I stream a game like NBA 2k23 wirelessly to my pc from my Xbox Series X I have a higher input delay then when I'm not wirelessly streaming it would a elgato HD60 X or a 4K60 Prom Mk.2 help reduce it, need to know cause I do like to livestream the game but the latency is just so much higher and makes it harder to play? Any help would be so wonderful. Have a wonderful day
@@KillerGoony wireless streaming will always have a heavy input delay because the bandwidth (amount of data that can be transferred) is fairly limited, especially if you're playing in 4k
You need to test the latency also when you duplicate two monitors in windows, and then use 1 for your main monitor and 2 for your capture card. Will it affect latency?
@@kurikat same problem here. ive been looking everywhere for a solution and have yet to find one anywhere. it seems like a pretty huge problem a ton of people are having a problem with, yet no solutions
This is great info to see and get! I had just started retro gaming on my PC with the OSSC upscaler, and was concerned about input lag, although not particularly noticing it. I look forward to the future parts, as I stream and use the OBS full screen projector to play.
Stellar work here. I applaud these kinds of videos every time because the amount of work and expertise required to make them is inversely proportional to the number of views it will get, due its niche nature. Doing God's work here man. Thank you
Depends on the capture card. I used to have an avermedia and that thing would cause tremendous delay when it was in the process of recording. Bought some splitters and ran the cables simultaneously into the TV and capture card, instead of into the capture card and then back out into the tv. Never had an issue with delay again.
Feels bad that a video this high-quality has only got 690 likes so far...we gotta pump that up to at least 4000, plus a couple hundred or so. This is really comprehensive in under 20 minutes, including foundational theory. I was idly wondering how bad gaming off a second-PC (or console-to-PC, specifically!) capture stream would be and this is not bad at all, compared to what I remember things looking like 10 years ago. Glad you highlight that adding a capture card to a system you're also gaming on is generally not a good idea, which kinda reminded me that the best capture setup is still using a splitter and dedicated system.
OBS as screen projector to your capture card from streaming pc might create some input lag, or from what I see none on high end pc? I'm using this method at the moment because I have problems with smoothness with using monitor clone method - I have 360 Hz monior and capture cards just can't handle that. Magewell = screen tearing, Elgato = sometimes stream is looking like 30 fps Very interesting work by the way, I love it!
@@Pago33 o chollera pago! że też się tego nie spodziewałem że ktoś podejmuje się takich fajnych tematów z polskich streamerów Translation Oh my god Pago! I didn't know that someone from Polish streamers are interested in that topics :D
I have seen some cheap Chinese capture cards which didn't have an HDMI splitter. Instead, the input was comprised of the mStar scaler chip like you'd find on an input of an inexpensive LCD monitor, scaling to 1080p60 and transmitting the signal as plain parallel RGB. Then you find a USB camera chip ingesting the signal for the capture, and an HDMI transmitter converting it for the output. It stands to reason that this topology can introduce a frame of latency, but doesn't strictly have to, as conversion of a rolling buffer of 2-3 input lines is possible, introducing just a handful lines of delay rather than a frame, and if it weren't for overdrive that such a monitor oriented scaler must generally implement nowadays, the full framebuffer could be spared, reducing the cost. You should be able to tell this topology apart from the topology that starts with an HDMI splitter simply by a glance at the PCB trace layout. You can also DM me on Discord with any PCB pics you care me to look at :D That being said the mStar scaler is probably great for input signal compatibility, as it should inherit compatibility similar to monitors. You can't exactly expect dedicated capture card logic to be nearly as versatile. But if memory serves, that particular card didn't even turn out to be terrible when someone tested it, and even had proper USB 3.0 support. Then again some people received cards with identical hardware but firmware that barely worked at all. As to latency at the bottom of the LCD being larger than at the top? This depends from where you measure. When you have software building a frame and then when it's done, flipping it to the output buffer during the vsync, then you have a scanout latency that occurs on the GPU that progresses as the frame is output, but this isn't monitor's latency. It's also fundamentally the same between LCD and CRT. When you measure from signal source, i.e. GPU RAMDAC circuit (obsolete name, i know, for the lack of actual DAC) or the HDMI/DVI/DP output, the latency should be the same top to bottom. You would need a shadow buffer akin to BBD (bucket brigade device) or CCD (charge coupled device) directly in the panel to un-rolling-shutter the presentation, which just doesn't make sense, it would detract from available footprint for the liquid crystals. Because data needs to be transferred from controller into the charge state of pixels in the panel sequentially anyway, it can't happen all at the same time.
I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0 Capture Device for Retro Game capture using it for modern PC titles on a single PC is absolutely pointless for sure. Nice testing!
I had my Genki ShadowCast 2 Pro Capture Card 5 days ago, and I was trying to find out how to synchronize the preview with the display (disregarding the latency and such since it is pretty low) so I came across your video about capture cards causing input lag (which I haven't noticed with my Razer Ripsaw HD Game Capture, and my ShadowCast 2 Pro set to 1080p60 mode on custom and before I set my 4K60 setting for it to Device Default), but if you haven't made a video regarding Human Things' Genki ShadowCast 2 Pro device for latency tests with 1080p and 4K using 60FPS for OBS or anything else, then can you make one, or have you already made one about it? And yes, the ShadowCast 2 Pro can record 4K60 on OBS unlike the Elgato HD60 X which records at 4K30 instead. I've viewed their Kickstarter with the Genki Covert Dock 2, ShadowCast 2, and the ShadowCast 2 Pro. I just had to figure out how to fix the 4K60 preview on OBS and have it sync with the display.
I run a dual pc setup with an Mk2 elgato in the stream pc. I mirror the inputs, did you happen to test that method? i've never personally felt any input lag. I did used to feel it when using usb capture devices and my game consoles, it would seem to add input lag that i noticed. love the vids, and nerd or die:D
Do you have a recommendation of what the best pass through capture card for using your computer as a a screen for console games? I have the genki shadowcast but I think the input latency is around 100 ms
awesome video. I have a hdmi 1080p 60 hz signal that I want to feed in a capture card or interface. What capture card/interface has the lowest latency for my signal? Should I go with a 1080p capture device or 4k? (my system is Mac OS). You mostly talk about the passthrough latency but I would like to know what the latency is of the signal that comes in the PC. For example OBS preview latency.
Tyvm for these tests. I've been torn on whether I should run directly to my LG C9 w/ an extended 1080p60 display out to my Live Gamer 4K (2nd PC) using OBS Fullscreen Preview or Pass-Thru. Pass-Thru would be ideal but I've had some strange inconsistences while trying to use G-Sync as capture cards don't generally support it. However, I believe I might have gotten G-Sync to work or its a bug. If I physically disconnect all my displays and only connect direct to my CC via Pass-Thru; G-Sync is not an option to enable in the NVCP for the CC but if I connect my other displays which do support G-Sync and I leave them disabled and still only using CC Pass-Thru, G-Sync becomes available to enable for the CC. From my testing as I've tested it on and off it seems that G-Sync does work thru the Pass-Thru of the CC. Then I either pair Fast Sync or VSync -4 fps w/ the G-Sync and it works. I discovered this when I recently had issues w/ RDR2 crashing while trying to use G-Sync + HDR w/ OBS FS Preview which forced me to try Pass-Thru. The only issues I seem to have running Pass-Thru is while in the windows desktop the Pass-Thru image quality is not as clear as if I connected my display directly but once I'm in game I can't tell the difference. The other issue is I have to toggle my 120hz setting to 60hz and back to 120hz each time I boot my pc to get the full 120hz 1440p signal and the final issue is potential screen tearing to the stream / recording. So by using Pass-Thru w/ an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K I can run 1440p120 w/ HDR & G-Sync w/ those few minor hiccups previously mentioned. Have you done any testing w/ this specifically G-Sync? I understand that most high fps completive gamers won't use G-Sync but for single player games like HZD; 1440p 120 fps is amazing but really shines best w/ G-Sync.
Epos! Great video but I have a question.. for a use case such as say, using a capture card for a camera in a 1 pc setup would that use enough resources to affect latency of a totally separate game ( not FPS but latency only. Assuming a beast pc that already had tons of headroom) ran on the system? I have a USB capture card (HD60S) would I benefit from a PCIE capture card for my camera? Would it be the same, worse?
I would love a test with cheapo hdmi splitters, those could be perfect for together with that little and cheap usb2 capture stick you reviewed some time ago
Interesting video, I plan to buy a capture card myself (avermedia 4k live gamer cause it can capture odd resolution like 1920x1440 ) but I'm still concerned about something, I'm using a HDMI audio extractor for my consoles which works with hdmi passthrough, do you think this kind of little box to extract the audio from hdmi can cause input latency ? Also the Time Sleuth looks a cool tool, I made research on it and saw it doesn't support over 1080p signal, does that mean it will not works with a 1440p or 4k monitor ?
I have an Elgato HD60 S+ with a Nintendo Switch and LG OLED TV. The input latency is so bad that it's not fun to play, and my ability to succeed in the game drops significantly. What could be going on, and what can I do to fix it?
14:06 So if I'm trying to record my gameplay from my PS5 to my PC, I shouldn't be using a capture card? I only have one PC and one PS5, both with their own monitor; I run the input from my PS5 to my PC and the output from my PC to my PS5 monitor. I immediately noticed a change in latency, and a slight drop in quality. What else can I do?
Thanks for this. I'm trying to figure out how to display gameplay on my console through my computer to stream and share with a relative in another state in real time but I'm new to all the deeper details and specifics about gaming hardware and this video seems like the sort of advic and info I needed. I only have a single screen to work with using a laptop, but the processor and graphics specs are pretty up to date and when I got it I was specifically shopping for one that would be good for running games like through Steam. Do you think a good quality capture card should allow for a stable display for that without excessive lag?
So... I have a 5950X & RTX 3080, with 64GB of RAM. The capture card I'm using is an Elgato 4K60 Pro Mk.II. I only have the one PC setup, and I plan on using the card as a passthrough for my consoles. But it will add significant input lag?
Hey I’m a little late to comment on this video but you said the pass through adds less than 1ms which Wouldn’t be noticeable but my question is does the input delay/latency go up a couple more ms if you record with OBS using either NVENC or x264? So could you feel/notice the OBS scene rendering time and the NVENC/x264 encoding time? I would love to get a follow up to that question?
LTT used ldat to attempt to verify claims of zero lag on passthru on AVRs and a capture card, and DF used ldat for stadia testing iirc. I think HWU also covered input latency to help battlenonsense to get a better picture because their game selection was limited, might've been around the subject of what reflex offers though. I'm sort of interested in the latency between releasing and engaging, real pinball machines might have a 4ms or less response time but I'm curious to know how much debounce on pc affects input.
Hello! I desperately love all your work dude! I’m really interested in two questions if you don’t mind me asking: 1. does g-sync affect smoothness of recording? Or it’s just showing results on users monitor. I tried couple times and final recording always were worse that real performance. Capture cards doesn’t allow to use gsync as far as I know, so this question in about single PC recording. 2. V-sync on the other side look really helpful even with capture cards and dual pc setup. Is it always should be switched on and synchronised with recording framerate for best smoothness of the footage
I'm way late. I bet what matters isn't so much G-Sync vs. non-G-Sync V-Sync, but rather stable framerate and frame pacing. G-Sync and adaptive sync deliver frames to the monitor when they're ready, and the monitor displays them without tearing. But this accommodates frames that aren't delivered at the same pace. For smooth video playback you want that framerate to be as smooth as possible, so try and lock down the framerate to 60fps for web-safe video. Would love to see a video on this issue in specific.
The Elgato passthrough is real-time. You can not have less latency than real-time. That’s 0 latency HDMI splitter can’t impact the preview latency, and there’s nothing to improve with the passthrough latency.
:/ I have a single PC setup, but I'll only be adding a capture card to it for when I have a console run through it. (Pretty much all my gaming is on the PC, with a few exceptions). So the only solution I can think of is when the capture card is not in use, disable it's port in BIOS or Device Manager?
I mean I don’t consider the tiny likely never noticeable amount of added latency worth the hassle of constantly disabling it. Especially if it’s usb that’s not even a problem
Hey EposVox, are you able to test OBS vs Shadowplay for input lag? I assume it would be the same / similar but I can't find this information anywhere. I don't want to tell you how to run your channel but I think it might be a good video :)
If my goal is just to connect my PS5 to my PC and play the game any viewer and I have no intentions of capturing or streaming what should be the best solution? I do not have enough space for a dedicated TV or another monitor for the console. I do not wish to do the input switching on my monitor.
So just having a capture card installed for when I want to capture my console can cause delay when I'm playing PC games? That's annoying, in particular if that could cause issues in VR. But it's also such a small impact it can be just irrelevant.
Hey, i'm gonna buy a avermedia live gamer ultra GC553, can i use the passthrough on my main pc without the second pc where the capture card is plugged being powered on ?
Can you also test NVIDIA Shadowplay and control for the bitrate and settings from OBS? Maybe, for example, test OBS 120 FPS 100 mbps quality vs OBS 60 FPS 50 mbps quality. That would be cool!
I'll be getting a AVerMedia Live Gamer 4k with Highpoint RocketStor 6661A eGPU for my Razer Blade Stealth laptop. Will this cause Input lag like a single PC would?
personally i have this same combo. the highpoint one i got isnt for egpus though just pcie capture cards. there was some latency but not that noticable
Great video bro. I give up playing Efootball 2023 on PS5 using a capture card and obs Studio because It was affecting my gameplay with a minimum but noticeble input lag. When i stream directly by the PS5 i dont have any problems, but I can't use OBS unfortunatelly... So sad.
I know this is an older video, but the results that have USB, is that for capture cards like elgato? I apologize if you made it clear in your video, but I just wanted to double check.
@@EposVox Thank you for your swift response. I am currently debating whether I should just record my PS5 gameplay directly from the console or use my capture card since I play FPS & fighting games, so input delay matters. Again, thank you.
and if i use a capture card without hdmi output, only usb output (this i plug into a secondary pc for streaming). Plug the capture card into my video card's hdmi on the gaming pc and clone the display (using the display port output on the gaming monitor)?
I’m hoping you might be able to help me out with this one. I have looked all over on the internet and just can’t find out what to do. I have an xbox series x that I’m playing on my lg cx tv. I have no issues with latency there. I recently got an Avermedia live gamer 4k pcie capture card. With my tv and xbox passing through the card I have a very noticeable amount of input lag. I’m missing all my shots and my aim feels so heavy. My pc is pretty decent as well I have an rtx3080 gpu, 16gb ram, and an and ryzen 3800xt cpu. Even with out any programs running on my pc it’s unplayable. Is there something I’m doing wrong? Please help 🥲
Okay so I have a capture card and I play fighting games and it feels incredibly slow is there a way to screen record the tv instead of the console so I can play without delay because Im playing with a huge delay whenever I use it
do u have a way to use xbox game audio and party chat while still being able to hear stream alerts on the same headset with the next gen Xbox consoles?
@@EposVox Hey. I got an HDMI splitter and I can see the slight delay from my OBS screen (second monitor) and console screen (first monitor) The splitter was totally worth it for shooters and super smash!
If you’re asking about latency, all of those things would be 100% dependent on the scalers or converters involved in the chain there. Check out My Life in Gaming
Are you usually running Xbox at 4k120hz? Or perhaps 1440p 120hz and it defaulted back to 60? I have tested every gaming capture card repeatedly and there’s
Does anyone have a fix for every time I open stream labs OBS my stream has huge green lines going through it? Using a 4k60. 2 pc set up. No it’s always fixed after I restart the PC it’s just annoying as hell that I have to start my PC twice every day
I would say no, I'm having this current issue and it's only an issue when I run 4k utility elgato, I run a single pc and man it's just a huge issue for me so can't use the capture card for my games cause it just crashes my game
@@EposVox False. I've personally reviewed a range of capture cards. 99% of them have input latency and if they don't its because it costs hundreds of dollars. You're clearly trying to milk that ad time.
“Trying to milk that ad time” - right, that’s why I basically answered it at the start and mention it regularly in every capture card review, on discord, and in written posts for people who don’t want to watch. Input latency in passthrough for recognized name brand capture cards advertising real-time passthrough is almost always 0 or negligible fractions of a millisecond Not to mention that “milking” you claim I’m doing is me literally sharing my methodology and being completely transparent on how I get my data with two completely different validation methods. Get out of here lmao
There are none with VRR support. *except for one Pengo one which is very experimental and I’m still working with them to improve the firmware as I can’t get it to stop cutting out constantly with VRR on. And it doesn’t do 4k120 either
Maybe I am so stupid to know why people use a standalone PC for streaming or using capture cards or encoders and all these kind of stuff. Is there any need for them really?! Isn't GPU built in encoder decent enough? Isn't modern hardware decent enough to do multiple things at once without effecting gaming performance. I am just curious and want somebody to clear things out for me
Ive Been Talking To Elgato About This, They Sent Me A Replacement Because They Thought It Was The Capture Card That Was Messed Up But Its Not. The New One They Send Me Was Doing The Same Thing, Im Sending Them A Detailed List of What Causes What With What Settings Because Even Changing One Setting Can Cause The Game Or Stream To Stutter Or Cause Imput Lag But Noticeable.
@@HettycTracyn The controller is connected to the console, when you play/capture console. But what matters is the total latency, from input, to when the image affected by the input hits your eye. The interesting part of total input-to-eye latency in this context is output side. Which isn't to say that there isn't input latency, USB and wireless controllers both have around 8ms minimum latency on consoles, but it is what it is and there's nothing you can do about it.
Also not an accurate tl;dr at all Especially since internal pcie capture cards are not “literally part of the motherboard”, they are still separate expansion devices
