Do diesel hybrids make any sense? 

A very small two or three cylinder diesel with a direct shaft into a 7k - 10k generator and four traction motors. Diesels do their best work at a particular RPM, and coincidentally so do generators. Diesels also have great torque which helps under heavy loads like standing starts and accelerating. Additional assistance in that area can be found with a couple of extra batteries, or super capacitors. It's cheap and doable with mpg around 75 to 80. If anyone tells you differently, they're lying.

The redundancy argument would be valid if both powertrains drive the wheels. However, if you are designing an electric vehicle with an internal combustion engine driving a generator (range extender), I don't see why that internal combustion engine can't be a small diesel.

I disagree. Much of the electric generators are powered by diesel. Why wouldn't this transfer to a hybrid vehicle, since the motor tends to be more of a generator than a direct power source?

I've often fantasized about taking an EV and just adding like a little 1.0L diesel generator as just that, a backup power source if say I wanted to take a long trip or something. I can't imagine it adding THAT much weight to an already overweight EV.

I hear diesel hybrid and I instantly think locomotives.

why not a small diesel as a range extender !?!?!

Diesel-electric trains are norm.

Where's the full episode?

Electric cars are efficient for town driving, but suck at hyw driving. Where as diesels are efficient at hyw driving, but not good for town driving. A hybrid would get the best of both worlds. That why I think it would be a good idea.

While weight can be an issue, there are some things to consider. One, with a straught diesel-electric setup, you won't be carrying a car load of batteries like a straight electric. Two, you can use a smaller horsepower diesel engine than would normally be required..saving weight. Finally, the efficiency usually wins out in the end. Where it would be most beneficial is in higher weight vehicles anyway...the same ones that are massively inefficient in the first place.

In Europe, you also can buy some Peugeot diesel-hybrids......

I have a Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4, which is a diesel hybrid, and I love it... great all round car.

I think is a good idea, cause in town you have a quiet electric car, and when you get up on the highway, you get all the torque of a diesel engines

Bio fuel diesel electric is the future

Fact:The largest trucks on Earth are diesel hybrids and have been for decades. Open pit mine "haul trucks" run one or more diesel generators powering AC alternators and usually two AC motors per axel. They are not driven by a conventional ICE drivetrain. These trucks carry 400+ tons at speeds of 40 mph. I think we could throw a low emission 1L 3cyl TD on a PHEV and make it to the store. The global push for full EV regardless of logic is the driving force behind stagnation in innovation for tech like this. Commendable companies like Toyota are taking a stand on the side of reason, vowing to continue their (petrol) hybrid program. There are tradeoffs to all forms of energy allocation for transport.

However....a diesel hybrid with a small 3 clylinder diesel could power a powerful electric motor and together you would have awesome torque and towing potential on something with insane fuel efficiency and no lengthy down time charging

More Cooley! When do you think EVs without tax credit will make economical sense? The Bolt is about $40k and there are any number of similar sized gas vehicles that would be $10-15k less. Even over 10 years of ownership you won't make that cost differential back. Not to mention battery replacement if you do want to keep one long term 10+ years. I know they will get there as the keep improving batteries and implementation but are looking at 10 years, 15?

Don't forget the E300 diesel hybrid and the C as well. Peugeot also makes them like in the 3008 hybrid4. The diesel powers the front wheels and the electric motors power the back wheels completely separately. So it is 4 wheels drive without a drive shaft.

Cooley 2020

Diesels are even better at running a constant rpm, perfect for generators. A Chevy Volt could run a more efficient diesel at a lower speed compared to the gas engine. The big problem is would people spend the money.

Another thing to consider is that most gasoline hybrids use Atkinson cycle engines, which, by providing a lower compression ratio for intake vs. exhaust, increase the thermal efficiency to that of a diesel engine. The drawback is that power and torque are significantly reduced, but the electrified hybrid powertrain makes up for the deficiency. So automakers have two engine options, both of which provide the same level of thermal efficiency, but one of which requires complicated and expensive pollution control equipment as the video mentions. Of course you know which one they'll go with.

Great question and great explanation. I'm not familiar with diesel engines and didn't know they had similar advantages and drawbacks to EVs

Volvo V60 D6 hybrid awd....also available in D5 form / Peugeot offers a diesel hybrid model...range rover diesel hybrid.....are all available right now in varied markets!!

I wonder how many KW you would need to run an electric car? Just have a small diesel generator on board to power the electric motor, AC, and accessories, forget about batteries all together.

Building a diesel hybrid motorcycle would be the dream. You would get the ultimate range (maybe a 1000+ miles of range).

also, the gen 4 (current gen) prius engine also has a peak thermal efficiency of 40%

I just want a diesel /electric hybrid so I can make my own power with solar and my own diesel with used plastic.

The Volkswagen XL1 is a diesel hybrid that gets anywhere from 100mpg to 300mpg depending on how you drive.

The skoda octavia 1.9tdi does around 65-70mpg if you are not pushing it too much, combine that with a electric motor and you easily reach 80mpg... Dont get it why ppl say its that hard, my ass is that hard, its just not profitable for the companies, thats why its hard to do...

When it comes to heavy duty trucking I can see diesel hybrids making sense. Hybrids don’t need huge batteries, the truck could run on electricity when idling, when starting from a stop the electric motor could help thus reducing engine wear, on the opposite side brake regeneration from the electric could replace engine braking also less strain on the engine, and start stop technology could save on fuel. Not to mention no need to plug in.

What about how locomotives work? The down fall for electric vehicles is the battery.. Why not have a plug in diesel hybrid similar to diesel trains but with fewer batteries to save some weight. You run on batteries until your battery level gets to a certain point at which the engine would turn on and act like a generator powering the batteries which then power the electric motors that move the car.

I am not thinking of a hybrid--when the diesel and the electric power the car--I am thinking of diesel running to generate the electricity to run the electric motors. This would be similar to modern trains.

diesel hybrids would be awesome in terms of pure mpg they can achieve, however part of the prius' beauty is the reliability and ease of maintenance, while diesels are a pain in the ass especially since they need more complicated emissions equipment.

Noooo I want a diesel hybrid truck

Audi R18 racecar was a diesel hybrid

I am gutted that the air hybrid system has not made it out of R&D. it is a simple system that is cheap and relatively light. not to mention that you could use the pressurised air to boost the engine pressure before turbo is spooled reducing turbo lag

I disagree, Use a very small diesel engine, to generate power and use the power generated to drive the wheels, and the number of batteries could be a small amount of storage. Just like Diesel-electric trains. Another way possible... small diesel motor with a CVT transmission between the engine and the generator portion.. so small increased throttle would greatly increase power output available to drive the electric motors on the wheels, of course, an ECU would control the diesel engines rpm and power generation on-demand. I think this is very do-able.

We have some here in Portugal...

heres the thing biodiesel it comes directly from crops so its renewable and carbon neutral

I will love to see diesel having a future in passenger automotive engines. I own a diesel engine powered car . I love every bit of it. The electric motor will be great for off the line performance and straight line.

high torque in small capacity diesel engines can help charging batteries very quickly .. strong hybrid diesel is still very viable

A diesel SERIAL hybrid makes a lot more sense than parallel hybrids.

has anyone tried gas or diesel generator eliminating all the batteries except for the small battery to start the generator??

How's about using the engine as a crutch in a serial hybrid config, so your battery is largely replaced by a diesel fuel tank.

LeMans Audi used diesel hybrid I assumed

Obviously Cooley is not an engineer. Diesels can be added as a modular, easily detachable system instead of a permanent arrangement. A diesel has not necessarily to have lots of torque. Using it as an auxiliary system to provide some oomp when needed, and charging the batteries meanwhile, is an idea that has been applied already in the Prius. It can be designed in such a way that you won't need even a wrench. I know it can be done even in a home workshop. Follow my channel because in the next few years it's possible I will be working on this.

It makes total sense unfortunately Clean diesel hybrid will be even better. Unfortunately VW messed up the clean diesel technology that is being implemented in many cars and trucks.

mercedes did a large range of diesel hybrids, some even plugin but as noted VW burned them all with greed and stupidity. There was some great engineering work being done to power the turbo electrically without the power loss of the turbo. However what was the diesel loss was the cost of the exhaust scrubbing and the micro particles that at ultra fine size are near impossible to filter without hobbling the power further. Nothing could solve that. Even shipping is moving from diesel fuel (and thats been ultra low sulphur for some time). We may have seen some benefit from the advanced diesel fuel additives. Diesel as an engine tech is excellent. Its the emissions it generates. Hybrid diesel still means just a more fuel efficient diesel. Ford-GM offer trucks but the heavy engine weight means a diesel is already heavy

A diesel hybrid would provide the best city MPG and the best highway MPG. It’s the best of both worlds. Now make a diesel hybrid truck. You would have something super efficient and capable. Payload may suffer a bit at least you can tow efficiently as well.

Foton makes a diesel hybrid full size pickup here in the philippines

Small diesel engine that runs at fixed rpm charging the batteries that actually run the car. Like the double decker buses in London

Just a thought on diesel hybrid tech. I believe changing how the diesel is used in a hybrid car would go a long way toward sustainability and optimal usage. Instead of two motors driving the vehicle use the electric motor and battery to drive the car. What do diesel engine do very well? Idle. If you were able to effectively idle at a rpm that could recharge the vehicle when needed starting with a plug in hybrid fully charged and use the diesel solely for charging the battery along with regenerative brakes and other tech out there, could you not post a higher mpg? If a semi can idle overnight using 10 gallons of fuel and you were using a 2.0 lt motor to charge charge the battery once underway with overcharge protection automated charging why could it not do much better then the equivalent gasoline hybrid model? Food for thought, answers appreciated.

Okay, I can see not have diesel as a "Parallel Hybrid". But as a "Series Hybrid" there would be potential.

A small diesel motor generating power for an electric propelled vehicle is how trains large ships and very large land vehicles have been operating for many many years. The reason why is because it's cleaner more fuel efficient and lasts longer. Now for the consumer-based market of people driving cars they don't exactly want to sell very reliable vehicles, there is a lot of money to be made by selling more and more vehicles and more and more fuel. Unless your electric vehicle is getting its power from nuclear power plants and solar panels then guess where the power is getting generated.. from burning fossil fuels.

VW just have to ruin everyone's day.

On a commercial level it doesn't make sense. On an individual level it absolutely does. Especially using a small tractor engine running on biodiesel.

The only why not is: because Petroleum companies dont make enough fucking money. Complete bullshit about torque vs torque. The guy is talking about a diesel hybrid doesnt have to have fucking batteries. Locomotives dont need batteries, ive got a 2010 hyundai i30 engine that runs in the vehicle about 950kms to 70L of diesel. Thats close to 600 miles for 18.5gal of diesel. Thats not super efficent driving, ie coasting etc etc just a normal long distance drive with aircon etc on. Now if hyundai can do that, theres no reason why someone cant couple a smaller diesel engine to a genset and develop a pure economical diesel electric vehicle.

Hybrids carry significantly smaller batteries than full EV cars. For example my 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid hides the battery just fine. Its no larger than my trunk, and it could be even smaller.

Diesel electric locomotives haul tens of thousands of tons of freight using a fraction of the fuel that conventional Diesel only transportation uses per ton, the technology has been around for at least 60 years, it's just unpopular with OPEC because of his much oil revenue would be lost.

He can't pronounce diesel. 😂 I was thinking of making one myself. ore like 150mpg

I think the extra weight would be great for Regen braking :)

In China they are using Hybrid diesel vehicles from really long time. Toyota's Heavy Duty company Hino already have mind duty diesel hybrid trucks and mini buses.

You are forgetting one very important thing - a Diesel is way better at highway cruise than gas or electric. So it makes sense to have an electric drive when you go about your business in a town or city centre, and then switch over to diesel when you are travelling interstate.

You nailed it 99.99%

No problem with low end torque, gearing can sort that.

Excellent question, been thinking about that for years. And what a sublime answer! Personally I'm not interested in hybrid, but it was interesting to think about it. Keep up the great work. Cooley 4pres

Explain why they use diesel generators to power electric motors for trains then.

thanks

In 2020, Mercedes-Benz is launching a GLE 350 de; you gessed it, a diesel hybrid - 200hp/2 liter / 4 cyl diesel engine + 134 hp electric engine with 31.2 kWh battery pack for a 66 mile electric only range. It's the sweet spot!

Do you work for the EPA? Gas engines make peak torque at a higher RPM than diesels.

Seems like the argument against isn’t a good one. Doesn’t seem like a tiny turbo diesel hybrid is any worse an idea than a gasoline hybrid yet it seems to have benefits whose only argument seems to be “cost”. Yet A vw tdi and a vw hybrid are both cheaper than a Tesla.

Why don’t we have Diesel electric cars , not a hybrid I mean I fully electric car with a diesel generator charging the battery’s, like a train or ship. The whole issue with electric engines is that a significant amount of fuel is use just for accelerating so why don’t we have electric vehicles that are powered by internal combustion engines. It’s simply different than a hybrid vehicle that really is more electric assisted than necessarily electric powered.

The heavy/excessive torque argument is only applicable in certain segments. It seems like it would solve many of the issues with an electric truck. 1. Decreased range when towing 2. Inability to haul long distances without extended stops. 3. Excessively large battery

There are diesel hybrid like Volvo v60 d6, Peugeot 3008/508 rxh, audi q7/a7, bmw 730 and Citroen DS5

Audi Q7 e-tron, its selling well in scandinavia, I would buy it but a bit expensive for me now

You do spread the benefits. That's why railroads run diesel-electric locomotives.

What about diesel generated Electric Vehicles. The diesel engine would really only be used for power generation like how pretty much all heavy equipment is setup.

Andrew Van Beek is right about Redundancy issue To dd to his argument diesel is more efficient and quieter at a higher gear ratios since electric motors were always design to do the acceleration because its not very efficient at high speed it would really make sense to use the diesel engine after the 2nd gear it then you get a smoother quiet and a ride

Diesel Hybrids already exist, Europe using 1.6L BlueHDi 75 Start & Stop engine, since 2015. now getting 94 MPG. While North America gets shit Mpg.

Torque is the same on an electric motor across its rpm range.

Mercedes also makes diesel hybrids

A smaller diesel engine wont need a turbo ad it's not actually powering the car

why cant you have a diesel engine turn a generator that will drive electric power train, thus removing the batteries completely ?

Diesel engines are only efficient if at optimum operating temperature. Diesels take longer to reach this temp and when the engine is only activating when needed in a hybrid the engine will not run at its most efficient on most trips. Also demanding max power from a cold engine is not recommended as this can cause premature damage. All this said, I’m no engineer so this is only my knowledge and opinion.

Diesel electric are more efficient than pure diesel... The problem is the government, which does use no exhaust filter diesel on the road while prohibits the same for regular citizens.

I have a Chevy Silverado hybrid with a 300lbs fiberglass truck cap and about 500lbs of tools and depending on my work load 100+lbs of material, so for me the low end torque makes plenty sense and any truck owner who hauls loads would also disagree, a diesel hybrid makes plenty sense, the only thing that matters is more mile to the gallon when it comes to most SUV and truck owners...

Diesel/Electric hybrids have been around forever... in big vehicles like trains, ships, submarines (technically series-hybrids, which uses electric propulsion, but diesel engines to recharge the batteries) It doesn't make sense in cars for the reasons stated in the video. Btw the Chevy Volt and Fisker Karma are series-hybrids, but gas/electric.

so Semi Trucks are looking good right for A Hybrid Diesel.

You have to think about pick up trucks and towing

If that were all true then why the hell do train manufacturers still refuse to use a mechanical drivetrain in a train and use a diesel electric setup it's not a hybrid you just have less losses through an electrical system there by increasing inefficiency

Locomotives are some of the most efficient machines on the planet, you'd think a manufacturer would make a 3/4 & 1 ton pickup truck that works like a locomotive. emissions and politics are ruining that I guess...

e300 hybrid w212 is a diesel hybrid, with a great range

Much more advantage the diesel hybrid specially in safety features...

first point of yours, my answer: YES, it needs the help of electric motor in the city, when you do stop and starts, a diesel in the city, doesn't do that well, it gets 7l/100km where's in the highway it get 3l/100km. the diesel yes ! it is better than anything else when you drive at 1500 rpm on the motor/high way. second point of yours, my answer: NO, although the diesel is good at low end torque, it consumes a lot in the city, compared to when it is stablized at 1500 rpm on the highway, so the option is not redundant at all. third point of yours, my answer: we had diesel engines options for as long as cars existed, and to the last update i had, a diesel powered car is like 1000 2000 3000 ? dollars more expensive than it's counterpart. NO it is a false problem. it's not like a petrol engined car costs 20,000 dollars and its diesel counterpart costs 200,000 dollars. nit pick. and a full hybrid doesn't need a big battery, it's just the phev non sens thing. now, imagine having a (european as i don't know about the us version or even if there is a hybrid civic in the first place) 2023 civic ehev, full hybrid, which gets amazing liters per 100 km, 2 l / 100 km in the city, on the highway, it gets 6 liters. now imagine just that exact car, with just a diesel engine instead of its gasoline engine... in the highway that car has a gear to connect the engine directly to wheel (like a 6th gear in a traditional car) just for the highway... a diesel gets 3 liters on the highway, at stable rpm, 1500 rpm doing 120/130 kmh... i mean come on !!!!!!! what is your point !!!!

The Q7 e-tron with diesel ICE is already on sale in Europe.

I was thinking last time of a naturally aspirated hybrid diesel engine

Yes.

Tesla guys will sign out seeing this.

It makes more sense for platforms like pickup trucks or medium duty trucks definitely over an EV counterpart. It's no different than a locomotive.

This guy is such a shill. Why didn’t he mention the fuel economy of those Diesel hybrids? If they combine plugin charging it’s possible to have over 100 mpg economy like a Chevy volt when used for city commuting. Most Americans still don’t know this technology is possible.